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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 03-21-2013, 01:34 PM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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E34 No Start

I am about to shoot myself. I have a 1995 BMW 525iT with a no start issue. I purchased a Bosch performance/EWS delete chip which I thought would solve the problem. My mechanic installed a new starter to no avail. The starter is spinning but no spark or fuel. What perplexes me is the car did start when a buddy came by and hit the starter. I'm not a mechanic, and a dear friend who is a mechanic can't figure this out. We both thought that deleting the EWS would enable the car to start. SIMPLE RIGHT !!! Not quite. If anyone has a detailed solution that we can try, I would be very grateful. Thanks, Jim Feel free to call me 315-963-2091 EST
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2013, 02:55 PM
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DanM5 DanM5 is offline
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:05 PM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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E34 and a noose !!!

It's an automatic. Thanks so much for your reply. This seems like it'll need a community effort. It is stumping everyone as yet. I hope you can help !!!
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  #4  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:13 PM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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no start

I forgot to mention that according to the Vin it was made on 10/26/95. I don't know if that info makes a difference
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:50 PM
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supertech777 supertech777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theenforcer View Post
I am about to shoot myself. I have a 1995 BMW 525iT with a no start issue. I purchased a Bosch performance/EWS delete chip which I thought would solve the problem. My mechanic installed a new starter to no avail. The starter is spinning but no spark or fuel. What perplexes me is the car did start when a buddy came by and hit the starter. I'm not a mechanic, and a dear friend who is a mechanic can't figure this out. We both thought that deleting the EWS would enable the car to start. SIMPLE RIGHT !!! Not quite. If anyone has a detailed solution that we can try, I would be very grateful. Thanks, Jim Feel free to call me 315-963-2091 EST
Check out my thread on ews delete , there are more steps to just replacing the chip ... Welcome to the fest
Noel

Sent from my Desire HD using Bimmer App
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2013, 05:23 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Mein Auto: 1995 540i SPORT /6 spd
Whats the common denominator?

No spark or fuel.. Only a few resons to have both. Number 1 being DME

Secondly if it started when your friend touched it recreate those cercimstances.

Ews delete, wiring, what was pluged in then? Ground wires on? What has changed since then?

Crank sensor pluged in, cam sensor pluged in, car see's park or nuetral, relays are good, no alarm disabling it.ect

Can he turn a key better than you maybe? Im jk!

Goodluck sir

Not to over simplify.. But, you can't just pull the ews fuse and drive.. Why does it enable it to start?

Edited,

Found this look

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=536505

Last edited by imae34driver; 03-21-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:11 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Have you checked your main/DME relay? If it is bad, you will have no spark or fuel.

When the problem started, was the engine turning over when you turned the key to position 3? If so, your EWS was not faulty.

Also, if the sliver label DME you had was bad, bypassing the EWS with a chip would not fix the DME. You would need to do the red label DME swap as in my post above.

Something that may help us help you would be to give us the history of the problem, i.e., exactly what happened when the problem started? What interventions have you done? When you say that the car started when your friend "hit the starter", do you mean that the engine cranked and ran, or did it just crank over?

Sorry for all of the questions, but just trying to help.
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

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1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #8  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:23 PM
south26 south26 is offline
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crank position sensor?


Andy
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:25 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by south26 View Post
crank position sensor?


Andy
Agree Andy. Forgot to include that as one of the possible causes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #10  
Old 03-21-2013, 09:46 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imae34driver View Post
Whats the common denominator?

No spark or fuel.. Only a few resons to have both. Number 1 being DME

Secondly if it started when your friend touched it recreate those cercimstances.

Ews delete, wiring, what was pluged in then? Ground wires on? What has changed since then?

Crank sensor pluged in, cam sensor pluged in, car see's park or nuetral, relays are good, no alarm disabling it.ect

Can he turn a key better than you maybe? Im jk!

Goodluck sir

Not to over simplify.. But, you can't just pull the ews fuse and drive.. Why does it enable it to start?

Edited,

Found this look

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=536505
I mentioned this as one of the first things to check
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  #11  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:33 AM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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Unhappy E34 no start

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their help and concern. When my buddy whacked on the starter the car fired right up. I continue to forward all this info to my mechanic who is scratching his head over this one. Thank God one of his friends is a certified BMW mechanic who's going to try and help him out.
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:21 AM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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If you whack a starter to make a car work, it is because the starter solenoid is stuck and not engaging the starter to the ring Gear teeth on the flywheel.

And when you do it to a fuel pump it is because the permanent magnet motor is stuck between positive and negative poles..

Good luck
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2013, 07:49 PM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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continued no start

If anyone has a wiring schematic for nitwits that'll show the entire EWS II system. For example, my DME?? is not behind the glovebox, but rather it's located on the drivers side under kick panel. I'm wondering if now that the starter was replaced, the starter spins, but still won't start. Could it be possible that a fusible link or relay was damaged with all the jump start attempts etc... . I'm so disappointed, even though my beauty has over 280,000 miles it ran perfectly. People who drove the car couldn't believe how many miles it has. May the prayers begin...............Jim
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:01 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Mein Auto: 1995 540i SPORT /6 spd
Starter spins but will not start?

Do you mean starter spins but does not engage motor?
Spins freely and does not turn the engine over?

That is the classic bad starter soloniod symptom.

There for the trick of tap tapping on the starter physically will free it up
and make it work.

Ews has nothing to do with in this case.

Hope this helps

Last edited by imae34driver; 03-23-2013 at 08:02 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:13 PM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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no start

Thanks for your reply. My mechanic told me that it spins but the engine won't crank. I'm going to check with him tomorrow to see if I misunderstood him. Thank you again. It's nice to belong to such a great "family"..............Jim
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  #16  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:16 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Thanks, if my perspective on his words are correct this is a cheap fix.. A starter.
How ever it is a bit simple, most techs will no this immediately


Good luck to you sir.
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  #17  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:47 PM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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no start

He already changed the starter. I am sooo frustrated that it's not funny.
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  #18  
Old 03-23-2013, 09:01 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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To a known good part? Not a used one. Most starters by now are cheap remans.. If there not bolted up quiet evenly or a washer is missing this can cuase a starter to fail prematurely..

When new problems arise always consider recent repairs as being possible cuases
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  #19  
Old 03-23-2013, 09:17 PM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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no start

I usually get parts I need from Bavarian Auto Recycling. I bought a starter from them, but my mechanic said it was the wrong one. I called Bavarian up and explained the problem, to no avail. They wouldn't pay the postage to send it back nor give a refund, only a credit. In my opinion, not very fair.
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  #20  
Old 03-23-2013, 09:23 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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You did not install a known wrong part and wonder why it does not start.. Right?

If its wired differently or operates on different amperage or something it can cause this..

Start with correct known good parts.
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  #21  
Old 03-25-2013, 08:06 AM
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TemporarySanity TemporarySanity is offline
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The engine must be turning over to be able to determine if there is fuel and spark. If it takes a whack to get it to turn over, then it's a starter issue. If it still won't start even when it's turning over, then it's a unrelated issue as most here have stated. Sounds like you are on the right track though. Good luck.
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  #22  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theenforcer View Post
I am about to shoot myself. I have a 1995 BMW 525iT with a no start issue. I purchased a Bosch performance/EWS delete chip which I thought would solve the problem. My mechanic installed a new starter to no avail. The starter is spinning but no spark or fuel. What perplexes me is the car did start when a buddy came by and hit the starter. I'm not a mechanic, and a dear friend who is a mechanic can't figure this out. We both thought that deleting the EWS would enable the car to start. SIMPLE RIGHT !!! Not quite. If anyone has a detailed solution that we can try, I would be very grateful. Thanks, Jim Feel free to call me 315-963-2091 EST
It could be possible that your battery is too weak or you got a bad new starter, trust me thats hapened to me before.

Test the starter at autozone, check voltage across the battery terminals, and check them during cranking.

If these tests fail go back to basics.

1. check for fuel i.e. listen to hear the fuel pump coming on when you crank the key.
2. Check for spark. albeit i dont klnow how to do that with these engines
3. put back in the original chip and try starting it.

If it started when your friend ht the starter then it could be a loose terminal, or low battery voltage or insufficient cold cranking amps
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theenforcer View Post
I usually get parts I need from Bavarian Auto Recycling. I bought a starter from them, but my mechanic said it was the wrong one. I called Bavarian up and explained the problem, to no avail. They wouldn't pay the postage to send it back nor give a refund, only a credit. In my opinion, not very fair.
Well you otta look at it from their prerspective they sent you the part you ordered, and the postage is what like 10.00 through USPS. they dont want to foot the bill for something they dont se as their fault. And having been in the parts business i can tell you that alot of times the postage price comes out of the guy who sold you the parts salary.

Id ship them back the starter with your original or at least a side by side picture of both and have them ship you the right one.

And yeah bav auto recyling is a junk yard so parts might be bad. thats the risk we take.
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  #24  
Old 03-26-2013, 06:40 AM
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
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OK, Hello folks. This is Mike, the guy trying to help theenforcer out with his 1995 BMW E34 no-start issue. He has given me his username & PW to try to help find...help.

My credentials: 20 years ASE Master Auto Tech, Chrysler Master, I was a BMW Service Mgr back in 1999-2002, worked in C/D/J, Volvo, BMW and currently run my own small shop. I am not a shade-tree mechanic and do not "throw parts" at cars to fix them. I will (and have) lose money trying to solve an issue for someone instead of the typical alternative of rape & scrape (ignore the language).

There has been some mis-information posted so I am going to attempt to clear the mud in hopes to find a solution. Let's take a large step back and rewind to better times when this car actually ran. OK now that that is over with, here is what we have. Intermittent no-start condition. Intermittent no CRANK (That means NOTHING happens when you roll the key to "start" position). Tow truck driver tapped on starter and got it to run. Starter deemed faulty. Simple enough, right?. The starter was not yet replaced. In the interim, the enforcer was told it could be EWS related and should by-pass the system. He ordered delete chip and downloaded instructions to perform the task. "Garage X" attempted to begin the delete. Theenforcer then brought the car to me to perform the delete based on the intermittent NO CRANK. After a quick confirmation, I advised him that the starter needs to be replaced before we can/should go farther with the EWS delete.

Starter motor replaced by me. (Incorrect used starter was inadvertently purchased by the enforcer through Bavarian. New, correct NAPA unit installed by me). Engine now CRANKS every single time it is requested. The engine will not FIRE (this means the engine is turning over but will not FIRE and RUN). The starter motor is GOOD. It does it's job without fail. I remove DME and open it to find delete chip has already been installed at "Garage X". Four of the delicate pins have been mashed over, not connected to anything but air. I removed the delete chip, repaired the pins and re-installed. I verified pin #66 at the harness was cut & taped to the DME. I did NOT verify the pins #1 & #3 at the EWS are bridged, because the starter motor engages every single time is is asked to, and that is the reason for bridging to begin with.

Engine CRANKS, does not FIRE. I pulled all plugs to check for fuel saturation, A.K.A. flooding (clear flood did not work when attempting to start). Plugs were DRY. Monitored spark output for each coil. NO SPARK. Verified fuel pump operation through my ears (can hear pump run "self check" when key is rolled on) and through jumping relay. Fuel pump is GOOD. There is NO SPARK and NO INJECTOR PULSE (tested with Waekon inductive tester at the coils and injectors). I replaced the original chip back to the DME and re-connected pin #66 at the DME and still have CRANK but no FIRE. My best educated GUESS is the DME was compromised during the initial failed attempt at "Garage X" by ruining the pins. I am not one to point fingers, especially at another shop or tech, but that is my gut feeling. With no real way to TEST the DME in my shop, I can only suggest it as a possibility.

I know the CPS could also be an issue. I know wiring somewhere could also be an issue. I know grounds are a common issue. I have been all over this car and WITHOUT throwing parts at it (not my cup of tea), I am without a solution. I have not yet checked resistance of the CPS nor have I checked the main relay. I am going to check those today. I cannot pull codes using the stomp method, which somewhat confirms my failed DME thought. No engine light with key on also, again a somewhat typical DME concern (Very common with domestic PCM's). I have since re-installed the delete chip and removed #66 wire from DME to put it back to by-pass mode, which one would THINK would make for easier trouble shooting.

Any suggestions or further input would be appreciated!

Mike
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  #25  
Old 03-26-2013, 08:01 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Good morning Mike. I am not a mechanic, but have tackled a no-start on a 95 E36 with the M50 and won. My case was a bad DME. I had a couple of no-starts and then it just would not start. My engine turned over fine, so my EWS was not faulty. I had no fuel and no spark. All of the other systems checked out ok and thereby I ruled everything else out and determined it was a faulty DME. Since the car had EWS II, I had to do the DME swap with the wiring modification. I did not know about the EWS delete chip and, frankly, I don't think it would have worked for me since the problem was not a faulty EWS, but, that is only conjecture at this point. I'm glad you got the new starter. If it is spinning the engine over, then that rules it out as a problem.

I highly recommend checking the CPS. It is one of the most common causes of a no-start in our beloved BMWs. Note however that the resistance reading should be 540 +/- 10%, NOT 1280 +/- 10% as listed in the Bentley manual. There was a misprint in the Bentley. I also recommend that you check or replace the main relay because, as you know, if it is faulty, then there will be no spark or fuel.

Regarding the DME, if you have a red label 413 DME, I would recommend that you go ahead and do the swap. I did my wiring modifications at the EWS module connector. I recently went and physically did the EWS delete (via the red label DME and wiring mods) with another local member and it worked fine.

After un-coupling the yellow EWS connector (way up under the dash on the driverís side), clip the solid green wire (#4 on the connector) and cap it on both ends. I believe this corresponds to the #66 wire clip that you already did, so you may not need to do this. Couldn't hurt though. Now cut the wires at #1 and #3 of the connector. Make sure to leave yourself enough pigtail to bridge them together. Bridge these wires together (meaning bridge #1 and #3 at the wiring harness and bridge #1 and #3 at the connector). This will bypass the EWS and allow the red label 413 DME to work.

Honestly though, I suspect that the CPS or main relay is the problem.

Good luck and I hope you get it fixed for the enforcer.
__________________
Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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