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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 03-23-2013, 03:12 PM
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Vapiano Vapiano is offline
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You are the man! Quite impressive! Keep us posted.
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  #27  
Old 03-23-2013, 03:22 PM
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Jaystyles Jaystyles is offline
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Post Green Coolant

Hey buddy I couldn't help but notice the green coolant. I hope after you seal things up that you use the blue BMW coolant and not that green stuff. That green stuff is no bueno boss it will wear out your hoses and seals out prematurely. Nonetheless, great thread and best of luck to ya!
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  #28  
Old 03-23-2013, 03:25 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaystyles View Post
Hey buddy I couldn't help but notice the green coolant. I hope after you seal things up that you use the blue BMW coolant and not that green stuff. That green stuff is no bueno boss it will wear out your hoses and seals out prematurely. Nonetheless, great thread and best of luck to ya!
That's the weird thing--I've only used the blue stuff.. and everything dumping out under the car is blue, so I'm not sure where the green comes from? Maybe it's been leaking for a while and someone used green a long time ago or something?

I'm going to flush and only use blue though
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  #29  
Old 03-23-2013, 06:59 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Here is an awesome PDF I found, in case anyone else needs it.

I'm up to page 20!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMW 645 Cap w Seal Expanding Coolant Pipe Repair New.pdf (6.88 MB, 407 views)
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  #30  
Old 03-23-2013, 11:41 PM
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Grab a vacume bro and vacume up all that crud and lose particles before u put ur manifold back in,,, to avoid all that debris from falling in the ports during reassembly
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  #31  
Old 03-24-2013, 07:10 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by H F View Post
Grab a vacume bro and vacume up all that crud and lose particles before u put ur manifold back in,,, to avoid all that debris from falling in the ports during reassembly
Found a cheapo mini vac at target last night for $12 to do just that
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  #32  
Old 03-24-2013, 08:15 AM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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I am at 183K on my 545i every time I check the oil I shine the light down on the weep hole as I think each day that it is dry is a bonus.

Where you able to leave the injectors in place in the intake?

What about your exhaust valves? The only way to change them is by removing the intake. I know would add a couple hundred buck to your total.

I am sure I will doing the same soon, so appreciate the parts list and links. I am very interested on the pipe outcome. I have watched several youtube tutorials.
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  #33  
Old 03-24-2013, 08:27 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
I am at 183K on my 545i every time I check the oil I shine the light down on the weep hole as I think each day that it is dry is a bonus.

Where you able to leave the injectors in place in the intake?

What about your exhaust valves? The only way to change them is by removing the intake. I know would add a couple hundred buck to your total.

I am sure I will doing the same soon, so appreciate the parts list and links. I am very interested on the pipe outcome. I have watched several youtube tutorials.
Yep, injectors came off with the intake in one big assembly. Some of the DIY's I have seen show pulling the injectors off, but it's not actually necessary. I ordered injector seals thinking I would need them when I pulled the injectors off, so now I'm not sure whether I go ahead replace them while it's apart or send them back since they were like $40. Probably will just replace them at this point.

To change exhaust valve seals you have to pull the valve covers as well and I think the valvetronics hardware has to come off. I'm not sure why you would have to pull the intake for that one though? I need to change the intermediate levers at some point, so probably will do valve seals at the same time. I need to get a backup car before that one

Here is are some pictures (and yes, that is my dryer, lol)

Intake on a special stand


Intake





Connector for fuel injector harness



Also, the dog



Last edited by schpenxel; 03-24-2013 at 08:31 AM.
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  #34  
Old 03-24-2013, 09:27 AM
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[QUOTE=schpenxel;7467424]Yep, injectors came off with the intake in one big assembly. Some of the DIY's I have seen show pulling the injectors off, but it's not actually necessary. I ordered injector seals thinking I would need them when I pulled the injectors off, so now I'm not sure whether I go ahead replace them while it's apart or send them back since they were like $40. Probably will just replace them at this point.

To change exhaust valve seals you have to pull the valve covers as well and I think the valvetronics hardware has to come off. I'm not sure why you would have to pull the intake for that one though? I need to change the intermediate levers at some point, so probably will do valve seals at the same time. I need to get a backup car before that one

Here is are some pictures (and yes, that is my dryer, lol)

Too funny. I used wrong valve terminology. I meant Secondary Air valves at rear of each head. I see you are replacing the "Y" pipe so was thinking about those air valves. For me I either have LH side valve stuck or carbon in the passages. When I do the coolant pipe and have the intake off is when I plan to change those SAS valves too.
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  #35  
Old 03-24-2013, 05:53 PM
racooper3 racooper3 is offline
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Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
Indeed, I already had some DIY links bookmarked for this day, lol.

I am torn between that one or the URO one. URO is cheaper and I haven't seen any complaints (so far). I don't mind spending more if I need to.. just don't really want to if I don't need to

http://www.amazon.com/URO-1114143997...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
Important thing is you don't want to have to redo the work either. See if there is anyone else who can give you good recommendation for the cheaper one. The All German tube looks to be of high quality and well machined.
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  #36  
Old 03-24-2013, 05:57 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
Too funny. I used wrong valve terminology. I meant Secondary Air valves at rear of each head. I see you are replacing the "Y" pipe so was thinking about those air valves. For me I either have LH side valve stuck or carbon in the passages. When I do the coolant pipe and have the intake off is when I plan to change those SAS valves too.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah I was wondering if there's anything I need to clean in the SAS system while I have it apart? I have read quite a few threads about it getting clogged up.. figure it's easier to keep it clean than to open it after it's closed, but not really sure where to start on that. I don't have any plans of doing anything to it though

Quote:
Originally Posted by racooper3 View Post
Important thing is you don't want to have to redo the work either. See if there is anyone else who can give you good recommendation for the cheaper one. The All German tube looks to be of high quality and well machined.
Found a few people who had used it and all had good results, so hopefully it'll work the first time. Hopefully.
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  #37  
Old 03-24-2013, 09:09 PM
H F H F is online now
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Did u look into the bimmer pipe? It's the in between one, as far as cost, its more than the Uro and less than tha All German,, it looks to be of good quality also.. Curious on what ur goen with.
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  #38  
Old 03-25-2013, 08:40 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by H F View Post
Did u look into the bimmer pipe? It's the in between one, as far as cost, its more than the Uro and less than tha All German,, it looks to be of good quality also.. Curious on what ur goen with.
Ended up ordering the URO one. I haven't really found anything negative on the URO one, so guess we shall see. These really don't need any significant pressure to keep them sealed, so should be fine to use.

Updated total for anyone wondering. I could have easily saved $200 if I hadn't broken that crankcase vent hose or replaced basically everything I'm touching.


Code:
description	quantity	each	total
ES#24414 O-Ring ES#24414
See MOQKT
11517507717 	1 	$3.21 	$3.21
ES#24361 PIPE ES#24361

11511439976 	1 	$15.65 	$15.65
ES#24416 GASKET ES#24416

11517508535 	1 	$9.60 	$9.60
ES#25751 Intake Manifold Gasket - Priced Each ES#25751
Fits both left and right
11617521181 	2 	$22.77 	$45.54
ES#19430 Valley Pan Cover With Seal ES#19430
Located in between the cylinder heads beneath the intake manifold.
11147507278 	1 	$67.35 	$67.35
ES#33675 Fuel Injector Holder - Priced Each ES#33675
Clips into the fuel injector
13537528539 	8 	$0.99 	$7.92
ES#34578 O-RING ES#34578

13647509752 	8 	$4.92 	$39.36
ES#2597506 O-Ring ES#2597506

07119903596 	2 	$2.32 	$4.64
ES#14707 HEX BOLT ES#14707
SEE MOQKT
07119905400 	1 	$0.99 	$0.99
ES#16077 TORX BOLT W/WASHER ES#16077

07129904819 	4 	$0.99 	$3.96
ES#2568197 Collapsible Water Pipe Kit ES#2568197
Effectively and easily addresses a common point of failure in the N62 4.4L and 4.8L V8!
11141439975R 	1 	$229.95 	$229.95
ES#38433 VENT PIPE ES#38433

17127542540 	1 	$60.76 	$60.76
ES#25803 VENT PIPE ES#25803

11617547186 	1 	$54.62 	$54.62
ES#16310 General Purpose Clamp - Priced Each ES#16310
Clamping range of 9mm-12mm
07129952102 	2 	$1.62 	$3.24
ES#25802 VENT PIPE ES#25802

11617547185 	1 	$51.69 	$51.69
ES#196290 Coolant/Antifreeze - 1 Gallon ES#196290
100% strength - dilute to a 50:50 ratio with distilled water
82141467704 	1 	$19.97 	$19.97
Sub Total: 	$618.45
Shipping - (UPS - Next Day Air Saver): 	$85.33
Total: 	$703.78
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  #39  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:39 AM
H F H F is online now
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When i first saw the Uro,, i wasnt sure about all those o ring gaskets.. But if u really think about it,,, each one of those o rings is like a line of defense.. they will all have to go bad before it leaks. So i think its a good choice...
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  #40  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:45 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H F View Post
When i first saw the Uro,, i wasnt sure about all those o ring gaskets.. But if u really think about it,,, each one of those o rings is like a line of defense.. they will all have to go bad before it leaks. So i think its a good choice...
Yeah, I was thinking the same. I sure hope it works! Honestly if I had had the parts I could have done this in a day (I think). I should have ordered the parts when I first saw signs of it leaking

I also believe there is a huge misunderstanding in the BMW community on what the seals actually do (i.e. what they seal where), so I'm going to try to take some pictures to clear that up.
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  #41  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:49 AM
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boramkiv boramkiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H F View Post
When i first saw the Uro,, i wasnt sure about all those o ring gaskets.. But if u really think about it,,, each one of those o rings is like a line of defense.. they will all have to go bad before it leaks. So i think its a good choice...
I personally would have chosen the AG. Line of defense is a great description, but could also be looked at as many weak points. I haven't seen bad reviews on them, and the money and time you save on the repair is worth it even if you have to go in there 3 times. You should check out the E65 760Li V-12 and the space around that pipe. (None) it's damn near impossible to cut that thing.
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  #42  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:51 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
I personally would have chosen the AG. Line of defense is a great description, but could also be looked at as many weak points. I haven't seen bad reviews on them, and the money and time you save on the repair is worth it even if you have to go in there 3 times. You should check out the E65 760Li V-12 and the space around that pipe. (None) it's damn near impossible to cut that thing.
The good thing is the O-Rings are basically in series, so all 3 would have to fail before you would leaking issues (from there at least)

Also: With as dirty as my intake runners were, I'm pretty sure it'll be like putting a ported manifold on there after I clean all the crud off, lol. There's a good 1/8" of it. (kidding, sorta)

Last edited by schpenxel; 03-25-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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  #43  
Old 03-25-2013, 11:29 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by eWERK-E60 View Post
LOL. Just make sure you have a folding chair, radio and cooler full of beer when you fix your ride, management won't say anything.
Funny story, actually...........


I had the intake halfway off, tools everywhere and had used a cordless impact wrench a few times (they aren't quiet) and I see someone from the complex pull up in a golf cart.. I was thinking "oh crap, guess I better go ahead and call a tow truck.." and after giving a few weird looks, they went and put candy on my door knob, lol. Turns out they had on file that Monday (today) was my birthday and were giving me a present, lol

They didn't say a word about the car being torn apart
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  #44  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:34 PM
H F H F is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
I personally would have chosen the AG. Line of defense is a great description, but could also be looked at as many weak points. I haven't seen bad reviews on them, and the money and time you save on the repair is worth it even if you have to go in there 3 times. You should check out the E65 760Li V-12 and the space around that pipe. (None) it's damn near impossible to cut that thing.
the AG pipe i think is really well made and like the way it functions , and looks to be simple to install, just like the bimmer pipe... actually i think its a toss up between the two, even though i like the AG as far as apearence.. But here is my logic on a comparison on all three... I think as far as sealing each end of the pipe all 3 of them equal.. If u look at the center seal,, The AG and the BP have one seal inthe middle. Lets just say,, if the coolant travels thru the pipe over lap to the middle, both pipes only have one seal, if that one seal fails,,,, The coolant will leak from the center of the pipe. Ok on the Uro if the coolant travels thru the overlap
the first seal fails,,,I think no leak ,,,then coolant gets to the second seal ( which hasnt seen coolant ) and is a fresh seal at that point, has to fail.. still no leak. finally the third seal is still fresh and backs up two failed seals.. and has to fail as well to leak out of the center of the pipe.
So in essance the AG and BP the coolant only has to penetrate one seal line of defense to leak at the center of the pipe,, Vs the three lines of defense to leak from the same center spot on the Uro. So I think thats a far cry from a weak point... I really think the Uro will last three times longer than the other two pipes.. ( leakage from the center of the pipe anyways )
Im not trying to b argumentive at all,, Its just my logic,,, and way of breaking it down,,, Actually i didnt like the Uro when i first saw it,, but once I fliped it around and gave a, logical look at it... I think its a good choice,,
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Last edited by H F; 03-25-2013 at 09:54 PM.
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  #45  
Old 03-26-2013, 02:19 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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My concern is moreso with the seals at the timing cover and rear if engine. I think it will be fine though. I'll take plenty of pictures.

I think the pressure you can get with the AG pipe is overkill and unnecessary but I'll have to see this one installed to confirm.
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  #46  
Old 03-27-2013, 02:01 PM
boost7 boost7 is offline
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schpenxel - keep us posted on your repair, I'm going to need the same repair soon, but will have to let an indy shop take care of it.
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  #47  
Old 03-27-2013, 02:22 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Will do! I have a week or two of waiting before I'll have the parts, so probably not many updates for a little while.
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  #48  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:31 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Pulled the pan valley and pipe cut in half (with a hand saw no less, lol). Note that I was able to leave the emissions pipes on (can't recall the name right now).


Another of the same


This is the small hose that connects to the back of the water pump. You can pull it from behind instead of pulling the water pump


Shot down into where the plastic tube connects to the water pump along with the small pipe shown in previous picture. I'm replacing the seals on the small one and the plastic tube


Pipe cut, rear portion removed (I recommend making the cut at an angle--it would have been really tough to get out if I had made a straight cut.


Same


Rear half of the pipe


Both ends of the pipe


The best seal design ever. Except not.


More awesomeness





Coolant holes in the head (the four small holes)--one point people don't understand is the pan valley IS ALWAYS FULL OF COOLANT. Coolant travels through these passages. That's why the pan valley has a seal on it!! This leak is not because the valley pan fills up with coolant. I'll show you the real cause later.


Another of the other side head coolant passages


Another


One more


Front seal removed--garbage.


Same


Here is one of where the front seal goes. The seal is there to stop coolant from going through one of the cracks you can see. It stops both the coolant in the crossover pipe AND THE COOLANT IN THE VALLEY. When it starts leaking under this seal, it ends up coming out of the weep hole


Another


Last one. I'm not sure which gap is the one that leads to the weep hole, but I suspect it's the one most towards the front of the engine.


Rear seal coming out. It's a little tougher to get out than they show in the videos.


Another


Both seals side by side.. one of these is not like the other


Again


Last

Last edited by schpenxel; 03-29-2013 at 08:32 AM.
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  #49  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:42 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Cleaning up injectors and intake while I have them apart and am waiting on parts...









































































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  #50  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:11 AM
racooper3 racooper3 is offline
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If I were representing BMW, I would be ashamed of these pictures. I know they are smarter and can do much better on this design. Likely a contractor using inferior seal material that should be canned. Thanks for all the great pictures. The job isn't that complicated, just need to take time and have parts ready to go when you do take the plunge.

P.S. my wife would kill me if I put my Intake manifold on the washer like that. After a week of no washing we usually have 6 loads of laundry to do.

Last edited by racooper3; 03-29-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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