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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:55 PM
varcity varcity is offline
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335i still worth buying with HPFP issues?

Hello all,

I am a newbie in the market of purchasing a 335i vs a 370z. I know there are a lot of problems dealing with the HPFP and from what i could find, they still have not seemed to fix the issue and the only thing we can do is to tow the car in or drive the car in if can and get the HPFP replaced with the 10yr or 120k warranty. I found the thread on here for the official hpfp questions but the thread was closed by user "emissions"? I hope there isn't already a thread that exists for these questions cause i couldn't find it and if there is i apologize.

But here is my basic concern. I always wanted a BMW, and used to have a 350z. So my top two choices are 6spd 335i sports package with upgraded 18" wheels since it comes with the oil cooler or a touring model sports pkg 370z. I weighed out both their pro's and cons. that being the bmw being a bit more practical for everyday driving with the 4 seats and all, compared to the 370z with only 2 seats. I live in ohio so we do have a snow belt here throughout dec-march. The only thing that pretty much put me at a stop was the whole issues with the HPFP. I am a newbie at bmw's so I am generally concerned of the issue. My questions being is, "is it still worth purchasing a 335i knowing that there is a great chance of a HPFP failure?"

the 335i is an 08 335i sports pkg 18" wheel upgrade with 45k miles, listing price of 23k
370 - 09 touring sports pkg 19" wheel upgrade 37k miles, listing price of 25k.
also looking into 2010 335i M sport spd but thats 36k for listing price which is a bit expensive esp. with the whole hpfp issue.

Any help will do
much appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 03-23-2013, 01:35 AM
Darryl79 Darryl79 is offline
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For what it's worth. I just traded my '12 370z Base Roadster for a '10 Sport 335i Coupe. Here in Honolulu, the potholes and ****ty roads beat me and my car up. The Z had an excellent 7AT, and was quick, but for me, too many blind spots and road noise. Since moving to the 335i (6AT), I have a car I can get around again. Granted, it has RFT on them, so you still "feel" the road, but IMO, it's not as bad. If you can GET a CPO, Do it. That will negate most of your issues. Mine only had just less then 14k mi upon delivery and I paid $35k with my trade in. That's Honolulu though. Get it checked out by an indy shop if you need to. Pull the car fax, and auto check and any other sources. Insurance wise, not sure how old you are, my insurance went DOWN $48 dollars when I moved to the 335i.

Hope that gives you a little feedback.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:44 AM
varcity varcity is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl79 View Post
For what it's worth. I just traded my '12 370z Base Roadster for a '10 Sport 335i Coupe. Here in Honolulu, the potholes and ****ty roads beat me and my car up. The Z had an excellent 7AT, and was quick, but for me, too many blind spots and road noise. Since moving to the 335i (6AT), I have a car I can get around again. Granted, it has RFT on them, so you still "feel" the road, but IMO, it's not as bad. If you can GET a CPO, Do it. That will negate most of your issues. Mine only had just less then 14k mi upon delivery and I paid $35k with my trade in. That's Honolulu though. Get it checked out by an indy shop if you need to. Pull the car fax, and auto check and any other sources. Insurance wise, not sure how old you are, my insurance went DOWN $48 dollars when I moved to the 335i.

Hope that gives you a little feedback.
thank you for the feed back, definitely appreciate it. Yea i used to have a 350z so the ride was really sporty, could def. feel the road, every single crack, etc. I still loved my 350z, the ride, the sportiness, handle and speed. I've always wanted a bmw though, love the look, always been a fan of them, though i have not test drove one yet. My main draw backs are definitely the HPFP, maintenance cost (are they really higher than most?) and insurance, I'm not sure how much it would be compared to a sports car like a Z car. Though my insurance was not bad at all when i had a Z. I'm going to test drive the 370Z today. So i'll get a better perspective of it, and i should def. try and test drive the 335i to compare. Thanks again for the feedback

bmw owners - any feed back would be great!.
Other questions i have is - you guys own a bmw, dealt with the issues, regular maintenance, shop/labor and fee's., aftermarket parts.

is it truly expensive to maintain the car? if problems go wrong outside of warranty is it a wallet buster compared to other manufacturers like nissan etc. after market parts, are they about average price or also highly priced due to the reputation of bmw being a highly maintained costly car.

thanks

Last edited by varcity; 03-23-2013 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:46 AM
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Welcome to the fest.

I guess it depends on what *you* mean by "worth it" and "great chance of a HPFP failure."

How do *you* define worth? That is pretty subjective, and i doubt anyone else knows your value system but you.

As to the reliability, BWWs are not exactly superior in this regard; and in particular this car. So they have extended the warranty on this car in recognition of the problem. To me then that means if there is an issue I would get a loaner for a few days while the car was serviced. That would be inconvenient but at least would be $0.

I've not driven one of these, but to all accounts they are astonishingly quick, and if tuning is your bent, some serious HP gains are readily achievable.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:01 AM
varcity varcity is offline
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Welcome to the fest.

I guess it depends on what *you* mean by "worth it" and "great chance of a HPFP failure."

How do *you* define worth? That is pretty subjective, and i doubt anyone else knows your value system but you.

As to the reliability, BWWs are not exactly superior in this regard; and in particular this car. So they have extended the warranty on this car in recognition of the problem. To me then that means if there is an issue I would get a loaner for a few days while the car was serviced. That would be inconvenient but at least would be $0.

I've not driven one of these, but to all accounts they are astonishingly quick, and if tuning is your bent, some serious HP gains are readily achievable.
Thank you for the warm welcome, and you are right i should specify my definition of worth. Basically, deciding between the two cars are really tough. to be honest, if it wasn't for the HPFP problem then i would of already sealed the deal and got the 335i. But regarding that, im going to be spending a lot of money on both cars and my definition of worth is, "is it worth getting the 335i, knowing that the HPFP can fault and cause head aches and stress or is it really not as bad as it seems?"
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by varcity View Post
Thank you for the warm welcome, and you are right i should specify my definition of worth. Basically, deciding between the two cars are really tough. to be honest, if it wasn't for the HPFP problem then i would of already sealed the deal and got the 335i. But regarding that, im going to be spending a lot of money on both cars and my definition of worth is, "is it worth getting the 335i, knowing that the HPFP can fault and cause head aches and stress or is it really not as bad as it seems?"
Ok, fair enough.

Let me ask, did you say you drove the car?

How was it?
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:13 AM
varcity varcity is offline
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Ok, fair enough.

Let me ask, did you say you drove the car?

How was it?
I have not drove the 335i yet but really want to. I am going to go test drive the 370z today, in about 3 hours after i get out of work lol.
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:29 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varcity View Post
the 335i is an 08 335i sports pkg 18" wheel upgrade with 45k miles, listing price of 23k
370 - 09 touring sports pkg 19" wheel upgrade 37k miles, listing price of 25k.
also looking into 2010 335i M sport spd but thats 36k for listing price which is a bit expensive esp. with the whole hpfp issue.

Well, HPFP problems were long ago solved with a software change. The pumps were never bad - one frightful word describes the issue: Cavitation

My personal take is that EPA approval made resolution a multi-year affair, shining tribute to govt tape of the rojo kind.

Where's that leave you? The 3 has reasonably good reliability but repairs are expensive. To be fair, the DIY community is very much alive on several sites & YouTube. If you like that - I do - the 3 series is a kick to own.

The E9x has something a Z does not: Quality engineering. M Division has done a remarkable job and since the core design is the same, 328i through M3, that performance is available to you.

You might not think M much diff than Z. Wrongo! Smooth, comfortable, unending grip, 450 hp and, hugely important, just as many ft lb torque, are bolt-on real for a 335i. "Pothole explosions," read all about it, can be eliminated. Handling limits can be extended farther than your level of fear allows. Yet, your ride will be a pleasant daily driver with a performance feel/edge.

Not a Porsche....few cars have that. But adequate room and - let's be real - a small car gets big fast at speed. 2009+ sport pkg preferred. Enjoy!

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 03-23-2013 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Well, HPFP problems were long ago solved with a software change. The pumps were never bad - one frightful word describes the issue: Cavitation

My personal take is that EPA approval made resolution a multi-year affair, shining tribute to govt tape of the rojo kind.

Where's that leave you? The 3 has reasonably good reliability but repairs are expensive. To be fair, the DIY community is very much alive on several sites & YouTube. If you like that - I do - the 3 series is a kick to own.

The E9x has something a Z does not: Quality engineering. M Division has done a remarkable job and since the core design is the same, 328i through M3, that performance is available to you.

You might not think M is much diff than a Z. Wrongo! Smooth, comfortable, unending grip, 450 hp and, hugely important, just as many ft lb torque, are bolt-on real for a 335i. "Pothole explosions," read all about it, can be eliminated. Handling limits can be extended farther than your level of fear allows. Yet, your ride will be a pleasant daily driver with a performance feel/edge.

Not a Porsche....few cars have that. But adequate room and - let's be real - a small car gets big fast at speed. 2009+ sport pkg preferred. Enjoy!

.
OP - Listen to this ^^^. Very accurate based on my onlooking at the 335 community last few years.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:15 AM
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I have not drove the 335i yet but really want to. I am going to go test drive the 370z today, in about 3 hours after i get out of work lol.
Gotcha, enjoy the test drives.

My take, a BMW is not much to look at, somber interiors, tech is ok but catching up, quirky German / Bavarian features you have to get used to (double pull door unlock).

But.

But.

But.

You turn the key and drive, and there really is a connection you feel through the seat of your pants that leaves a smile on your face when you park it.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:24 AM
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One more vote on not letting the HPFP scare you off.

In addition to the extended BMW warranty for the pump (either 100k or 120k miles), as CWB notes, the problem has been pretty much resolved with a software change that primes the pump before the engine is started.

Are there no reports of HPFP failures since the change? Of course not, they're mechanical items and some will fail. Any pump will fail, and, in fact, the pump for my Passat did so. Comes with owning any device that uses moving parts.

Regarding post-warranty costs, yeah, BMWs can be a bit pricey to repair, especially if you use the dealer. I found a good indy shop who does most of my work and if there's a BMW related issue he's not comfortable with, he passes me off to a specialty shop run by a friend of his.

I bought mine new, I'm sitting at 91,000 miles at the moment, and I'm very happy with the car. I have two items on my horizon that I'm keeping an eye on (intake valve coking and the water pump) and I do fluid changes more often than BMW recommends. Upshot is a car that so far has been very dependable and that's a blast to drive.

Bottom line: If the HPFP is the only thing keeping you from the 335i, buy it. The last thing I'm worried about on mine is the HPFP, and I can also say if my car disappeared today, I'd be all over trying to replace it with the same car (An E92, not a newer F30). This one has what I want and how I want it. I put 25k - 30k miles a year on it, and I'm planning for a long relationship.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:39 AM
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We considered a 370Z convertible (among a lot of others) before we settled on our E93. Three things kept us away: rough ride; terrible blind spots requiring a reverse camera; and the relatively common paint bubbling in the sun issue.

On that last point, google "370Z paint bubbles sun" and you'll likely decide to not buy the 370Z.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:57 PM
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I share the same mindset as Zooks527. I came from a 2006 330i, a car with a pretty significant performance deficit between the 335i. The minute I test drove what is now my daily driver, I knew I had to have it. The HPFP shouldn't worry you. They're warrantied up to 120,000 miles or 10 years. If it goes out, so be it. Get it to the dealer, take out a loaner, and enjoy that for however long yours is in the shop. If it's a CPO car, or you can get a hold of a comprehensive, bumper-to-bumper extended warranty, there's no reason not to own a 335. For me, I actually really enjoy the look of the E90. Screams aggression (especially with sport package wheels and tires). The drive itself is even better. It's almost depressing, even. When I'm on the road, I'm always itching to hammer the throttle. The get-up-and-go is addicting. Go crazy, and have fun!
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:59 PM
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Calwaterboy, MMME30W - Thanks for the re-assurance. The software upgrade that fixes the pump issue is great news to hear. That helps settle a bit of anxiety towards that problem. So just the minor things i'll look into is maintenance cost, etc.

Zooks527 - definitely re-assuring to hear from a bmw vet. that it can be a reliable car up to "xxx and up" amount of miles.

Verts4Ever - Yeah i know about the paint issue, the 370z i test drove today was really nice, pearl white and was handled well with great care, Owner was anal about everything and took really good care of it, had it teflon coated to protect the paint, i checked the paint out and saw no bubble issues. Car drove like a dream, didn't feel any road noise which was surprising since my 350z was nothing but road noise. The blind spot was definitely worse than the 350z but im used to it due to having a 350z as well. so not much difference there. it will def. be a hard decision to come by but i know once i test drive the 335i i will fall in love with it.

Macht - yeah, i dont know if i want to spend the extra money on getting an extended warranty though, its an expensive warranty package to buy. With the 370z i wouldn't have to worry about getting a warranty package. parts are cheaper and car is reliable but not in the snow lol.


All in all, it will be a very difficult decision to come by, i know once i drive the 335i i will fall in love with it. im looking at a 2010 335i for 36k and its pretty steep. about 10k more than the 370z. is there a forum thread of post that states information about the software fix for the HPFP?
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:30 AM
varcity varcity is offline
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This isn't an "M-SPORT" 335i is it? I didn't see the M-Sport steering wheel. but it does have a nice dinan package. Is this worth the 36k he's asking for?

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...31744700&Log=0
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:36 AM
Darryl79 Darryl79 is offline
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I would say Yes just for the extra premium package. I paid nearly the same for 14k miles for a 2010. Only I didn't have as many options.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:51 AM
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I would say Yes just for the extra premium package. I paid nearly the same for 14k miles for a 2010. Only I didn't have as many options.
but how do you know its a "premium package" does the premium package not include the tv/navigation system? I'm just cautious cause i am pretty sure that the car is NOT an M-Sport car and he listed it, as well as winter package and premium. So who knows if he was just throwing everything in there to make the car seem nice and loaded lol
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:31 AM
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but how do you know its a "premium package" does the premium package not include the tv/navigation system? I'm just cautious cause i am pretty sure that the car is NOT an M-Sport car and he listed it, as well as winter package and premium. So who knows if he was just throwing everything in there to make the car seem nice and loaded lol
Enter the last seven digits of the VIN here:

www.bmwvin.com
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:41 AM
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Enter the last seven digits of the VIN here:

www.bmwvin.com
thats a pretty sweet website, i'll check it out but unfortunately its under maintenance right now lmao
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by varcity View Post
but how do you know its a "premium package" does the premium package not include the tv/navigation system? I'm just cautious cause i am pretty sure that the car is NOT an M-Sport car and he listed it, as well as winter package and premium. So who knows if he was just throwing everything in there to make the car seem nice and loaded lol
No, Nav does not necessarily come with the premium package.

What does come only with PP is the lumbar support for the seat. Bit tough to tell from the small picture, but it sure looks like the lumbar support control is on the driver's seat (small 4-way controller at the front left edge of the driver's seat).
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:19 AM
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No, Nav does not necessarily come with the premium package.

What does come only with PP is the lumbar support for the seat. Bit tough to tell from the small picture, but it sure looks like the lumbar support control is on the driver's seat (small 4-way controller at the front left edge of the driver's seat).
ok thanks a lot, i'll check it out in person, im pretty sure it isn't an M-SPORT model that it states, but if its at least a sports model then that'd be great.

Does anyone know what comes with the Dinan Stage 2 package? I know from the pictures, it has the carbon fiber intake? Does the Dinan come with an oil cooler?
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:39 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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....is there a forum thread of post that states information about the software fix for the HPFP?

Was part of a recall, all 335i - Google BMW 335i HEDP recall, you'll prob nail it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:40 AM
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I'm looking at a 2010 335i for 36k and its pretty steep. about 10k more than the 370z.

Ya get what you pay for, you'll see.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:29 AM
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ok thanks a lot, i'll check it out in person, im pretty sure it isn't an M-SPORT model that it states, but if its at least a sports model then that'd be great.

Does anyone know what comes with the Dinan Stage 2 package? I know from the pictures, it has the carbon fiber intake? Does the Dinan come with an oil cooler?
It definitely has the sports package as those are the sport seats (wider side bolsters and thigh extensions). As a coupe, it would already have the sport suspension, and it's got the cutouts for the headlight washers that come with the cold weather package (althougn I will confess that I don't know if you get cutouts without the washers themselves if the package isn't there).

Check for the ski bag in the rear seat passthrough. It sometimes goes missing over time, and if it's not there, you can make a small fuss that the cold weather package isn't complete as a way to kick another $100 or so off the price.

The Dinan package needed the oil cooler to be installed, so there's a factory oil cooler installed on the car (and I think they were standard on the coupes anyway). I do believe the Stage 2 conversion is a software remap only, changing the boost and cooling controls. "BMW warranty" is slightly misleading. The Dinan installation, even by a BMW dealer when they had the agreement with BMW, voids parts of the BMW warranty. Dinan picks up the missing pieces as long as the car is under the original factory warranty.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:35 AM
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Mein Auto: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Was part of a recall, all 335i - Google BMW 335i HEDP recall, you'll prob nail it.
Alright I'll give that a try. Thanks again!!!

Zooks537 - dude, you rock. You have been more than helpful in providing me with your expertise. Yeah I saw the letter about the void in warranty and saw on dinans website that they would cover a certain amount of years or so following bmw's warranty. Sucks that BMW wanted to void that. If I go check out the car ill ask about the ski bag. Thanks again for the advice.
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