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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:15 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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I wrote about the GS a while ago here during the big debate. I experienced it at a Lexus driving event. Overall, I was quite impressed with the GS. The two areas that were the most negative for the GS was the engine and transmission. Both are in need of an update to bring up to the standards of today. But the other aspects of the car were generally very good. I owned a second generation GS years ago. It was never a superb driver, but it was incredibly smooth, had a great stereo, attractive interior and exterior, and was very reliable. The Lexus dealer experience was also top notch.

The new GS is an impressive upgrade for Lexus. The competition is so intense in this market now, no one can sit still. With improved engine choices and better lease deals, they could woo be back. But I am more than satisfied with my F10.
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  #27  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:03 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
New Lexus has upgraded ML sound system.

I agree with all your other comments. S Class is an unfair comparison because it costs so much more than a 528 or 535. S350 has a starting price of $93K.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdude View Post
Yes the S and CL (both built on the same platform...changing names to the S Coupe in 2014) class are unfair comparisons. You will never find a quieter car. My CL had a double layer of class and lots of sound proofing materials. Those cars are double and some triple the price of these. CL 500 $115,000, CL 600 $160,300, CL 63 AMG $153,000, and CL 65 $213,200

Although BMW's Bang and Olfsen's sound system is amazing! Much better than the system in my CL
Hey guys, I didn't compare it to an S class. Go back and read what I said
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  #28  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:56 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
Unless something changed when they came out with the new GS, I disagree with you on engine performance. I had a 2010 and it performed better than the F10 535. Did you check to see what mode you were in? It has an Eco, Sport and Rain or Snow (not sure anymore) modes that make a difference in throttle response.

Lexus gets major points on engine performance because there is not hitch in it's gettalong like BMWs are now famous for.

Other than that I have no issue with your write up as I have not driven the new GS. Was it an F-Sport?
I could not disagree more, I had a 08 GS and test drove the 2012, its not even close, the N55 with the 8 speed is a much better powertrain, much more low end torque. When you step on the Lexus, it makes a lot of noise, but thats about it until the rpm get up to 4000 or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
Lexus: Navigation- I'm surprised the BMW owners don't mention that here. It sucks compared to the Lexus. BMW needs to use a different vendor for Nav.
The Lexus Navi locks you out once you are in motion, you will end up pulling your hair out like I did

Last edited by The X Men; 03-26-2013 at 06:02 AM.
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  #29  
Old 03-26-2013, 06:39 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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Dad has one and it is a huge step in the right direction for Lexus. Interior design is ultra sleek and modern though i'm not a huge fan of that cheesy mouse thing and the GUI on the Lexus isn't as nice as the latest navigation system in my F10. Handles and brakes great but power is a bit lacking for day to day driving. It is misleading on paper because at max acceleration the Lexus is on par with the 535 but where the F10 beats the snot out of it is during normal low rpm driving around town with all the low end torque.

IMO if Lexus dropped the ISF V8 powertrain in the GS and cleaned up the wild front bumper design with a rear that matches then they would have a real winner here.

Alan
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  #30  
Old 03-26-2013, 08:48 AM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I could not disagree more, I had a 08 GS and test drove the 2012, its not even close, the N55 with the 8 speed is a much better powertrain, much more low end torque. When you step on the Lexus, it makes a lot of noise, but thats about it until the rpm get up to 4000 or so.



The Lexus Navi locks you out once you are in motion, you will end up pulling your hair out like I did
Well, I owned one for two and a half years and I'm sticking with my feelings about the car. The engine/transmission were great and responsive. And you will not read a single thread on the GS forum about people pulling their hair out over the engine/transmission causing hesitations and drive ability issues that are on this forum practically daily and have caused more than one BMW owner to get rid of their car. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

Yes, the navi locks you out, but of the several cars I've owned with navi, I find that is more the norm.
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  #31  
Old 03-26-2013, 11:25 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
Well, I owned one for two and a half years and I'm sticking with my feelings about the car. The engine/transmission were great and responsive. And you will not read a single thread on the GS forum about people pulling their hair out over the engine/transmission causing hesitations and drive ability issues that are on this forum practically daily and have caused more than one BMW owner to get rid of their car. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

Yes, the navi locks you out, but of the several cars I've owned with navi, I find that is more the norm.
I owned my 08 GS350 for about a year and a half and responsive is not the word for the powertrain. It needs to be wind up, all the power are at the top end.

There are plenty of thread with hesitation problems on the last 2 gens of GS. Here is a link:

http://m.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7501690
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  #32  
Old 03-26-2013, 11:53 AM
wildcardz wildcardz is offline
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Based on my test drive of the 2013 GS350 and owning the 535i, the 535i wins in terms of daily city driving. Even the road tests that favor the GS show this.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html
The 535i is a tick faster 0-30 and 0-50 despite its heavier weight. It's only after 60mph that the lighter GS starts to pull away slightly.

Don't confuse the hesitation/tip-in issues you read about with the 2011 535i as a flaw on the N55 engine. Those issues were generally software related and have been mitigated or resolved. I don't experience any of them in my 2012.
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  #33  
Old 03-26-2013, 01:15 PM
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I agree with some of that. Though I was not overly impressed with the GS's interior as I'm just not into that "Lexus feel", which just doesn't have that inherent "Germanic" quality and feel which I attribute to quality. The exterior doesn't compare I agree. The steering wheel of the M Sport feels very awesome and plush yet solid with a good diameter to me, though not sure how it compares with the F Sport steering wheel.

The UI was one of the worsts I've used. Took me forever to literally figure out how to change radio stations. Not as intuitive as iDrive or COMAND.

The transmission is killing that car as you said. Huge sore spot. The motor didn't feel impressive to me either, not nearly as much as the torquey and rich-unique sounding N55, though who knows how much of that (feel and performance aspect) is attributed to the lousy and boggy 6 Speed.

As far as chassis dynamics, I agree, very well done by that car. I drove a non F Sport and it wasn't anything to write home about in handling or body roll aspects, but the chassis feels very composed and dynamic. Not as luxurious and hefty as the F10's but maybe more sporty.
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  #34  
Old 03-26-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
I saw a similiar ad in R&T and was curious about the Independent Tests conducted by AMCI. It turns out AMCI is a marketing firm that conducts tests to show your car in its best light. I wonder if the 535 in their tests had DHP. At least I know why they picked a '12 535 MSport vs '13 535 MSport.
That's true. Also who knows, considering it was an event sponsored by Lexus, how much gas the 535i had possibly weighing it down, whether it was in Comfort or Sports Mode (maybe they'd put it in Eco Mode? ), etc.

The '13 M Sport is really the F10 that should be compared to the GS F, since the '13's finally get a dedicated "M Sport Suspension" which is noticeably tighter than the 2012's "normal" suspension.

These days I can tell a 2013 from a 2011 or 2012 M Sport right away, by simply seeing the wheel gap. 2012's and I believe even 2011 M Sports had large wheel gaps, while the 2013 looked slammed/lowered in comparison (speaking on RWD models). That also will surely help handling and maybe even braking numbers.

I'd love to see a 2013 535i Tested, considering those changes. However since BMW doesn't really advertise those changes so much, I'm sure the magazines aren't even aware of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
In general the BMW has a solidness and quietness that blows away every car I have driven or ridden in - including a few Mercedes, although I have not been in an "S" class.
Very agreed there. Extremely high torsional rigidity figures back that up by the F10 (higher than any Mercedes ever put out, for example, including the S-Class). I've found my F10 to be much quieter than my W212 E-Class, which is similarly quiet to the S-Class. Also, Inside Line did a test between the F01 7-Series and W221 S-Class and found the F01 7-Series to ring in considerably less DB's inside, and we all know the F10 and F01 are very closely related in these regards. Emilner who had the F10 after a W221 S claimed that his F10 was quieter as well. This all once again serves my theory that this car is so heavily over-engineered (literally speaking on the "heavy" part) in terms of luxury aspects because the chassis was inherently required to meet specifications as a core Rolls Royce chassis going forward.
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Last edited by K-A; 03-26-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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  #35  
Old 03-26-2013, 06:58 PM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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I think these days more so than ever for midsize luxury cars there are a lot of great choices and all of them a good - some better than others.
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  #36  
Old 03-26-2013, 07:48 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I owned my 08 GS350 for about a year and a half and responsive is not the word for the powertrain. It needs to be wind up, all the power are at the top end.

There are plenty of thread with hesitation problems on the last 2 gens of GS. Here is a link:

http://m.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7501690
First of all, the performance figures for the car supports me and not you . Perhaps you just had higher expectations.

As to the link it is for a front drive RX. I never saw that on the GS board that I was on for over two years. If I missed it I apologize. I know they did have some transmission issues with some cars. But this is still not the sort of issue that BMW's have become well known for.

I'm okay with disagreeing and the manner in which you are responding in a constructive and respective manner btw. That to me is what forums should be all about.
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  #37  
Old 03-26-2013, 07:53 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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The 5 Series would be perfect if it had Lexus's or Acura's Navigation and reliability. The fun factor in driving the 5 Series continues to have no peer.
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  #38  
Old 03-26-2013, 08:24 PM
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chuck92116 chuck92116 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
The 5 Series would be perfect if it had Lexus's or Acura's Navigation and reliability. The fun factor in driving the 5 Series continues to have no peer.
Lexus and Acura's NAV has to be accurate. Trust me when you drive these jap cars, you want to get to your destination and get the hell out of the car as quickly as possible.

j/k
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  #39  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:17 PM
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bodonx bodonx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
The 5 Series would be perfect if it had Lexus's or Acura's Navigation and reliability. The fun factor in driving the 5 Series continues to have no peer.
I disagree. In E60/E39 era, 5-series was the most fun-to-drive.

Nowadays, a lot of people prefer A6 or GS in term driving fun. The upcoming E-class will also try to be more fun-to-drive.

It seems that BMW wants F10 to be luxurious cruiser instead of ultimate driving machine.

Whereas, Lexus and Audi try to fill the void. Checkout all their "sporty" Ad campaigns.
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  #40  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:49 PM
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Which model sells more globally ?
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  #41  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:30 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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Originally Posted by chuck92116 View Post
Which model sells more globally ?
I think it is as follows:

1. 5 series
2. E-class
3. A6
4. Lexus GS

The E-class and 5 series are pretty close in sales. The Lexus would be a distant fourth.
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  #42  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:24 AM
LoveTAH LoveTAH is offline
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If nothing else, the gs is good for a laugh. Everytime I see that godawful front end, I bust a gut. After all this time I still havent accepted that a company could design something so hideous....ON PURPOSE.

The other good laugh I had was on a test drive of a 2010 gs350 with my aunt (old boring accountant--typical lexus customer). Sales dork talked all this **** about every other carmaker and how lexus "never" broke....and then not 30 seconds later the a/c stopped working....on a 90 degree day. Took a lot not to laugh at him as all that smug drained from his face.
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  #43  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:27 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveTAH View Post
If nothing else, the gs is good for a laugh. Everytime I see that godawful front end, I bust a gut. After all this time I still havent accepted that a company could design something so hideous....ON PURPOSE.

The other good laugh I had was on a test drive of a 2010 gs350 with my aunt (old boring accountant--typical lexus customer). Sales dork talked all this **** about every other carmaker and how lexus "never" broke....and then not 30 seconds later the a/c stopped working....on a 90 degree day. Took a lot not to laugh at him as all that smug drained from his face.
In my opinion, the new Lexus front end is worst than the E60 design wise. It just say cheap add on all over it. The worst part of this design is that Lexus is using it in their whole lineup. One would think there is a lesson to be learn from the ugly Acura bird beak grille, test it out on one car and if the reviews are good then transition it the rest of the lineup.
Lexus salesmans tends to way over sell Lexus' reliability. My 08 GS350 was in the shop more often than any of my German cars. On the other hand, my wife's old GX470 and RX450h was super reliable. Lexus, like any other brand is still pot luck as far as relaibility, but the law of average tends to favor Lexus a bit.
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  #44  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:29 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munich77 View Post
I think it is as follows:

1. 5 series
2. E-class
3. A6
4. Lexus GS

The E-class and 5 series are pretty close in sales. The Lexus would be a distant fourth.
Globally, the 5 series, E-class and the A6 is almost dead even. The GS is not even in the running.
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  #45  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:49 AM
SwamiV SwamiV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munich77 View Post
I think it is as follows:

1. 5 series
2. E-class
3. A6
4. Lexus GS

The E-class and 5 series are pretty close in sales. The Lexus would be a distant fourth.
I was hesistant to test drive the GS considering the lack of low end torque and the old 6 speed AT. However, in Sport+ mode the card was a beast. I loved many aspects of it - the interior is leagues above the A6 and the E350. (I think Audi interiors are very sub-par in a general sense and do not understand why people praise it so), the car drives well. One thing that I really despised was that large Nav screen with graphics and colors that belong in a Atari game system. It got worse when I saw it at night and it bathed the entire cabin in a blue hue - I simply could not bring myself to see that Nav unit every time I stepped in.

Oh and as someone mentioned - the 2013 M Sport has a tighter suspension - love it!
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  #46  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck92116 View Post
Lexus and Acura's NAV has to be accurate. Trust me when you drive these jap cars, you want to get to your destination and get the hell out of the car as quickly as possible.

j/k
Perhaps I'm alone but I really like the '13's navigation and the entire iDrive/Connective Drive system.
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  #47  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:30 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Trust me when you drive these jap cars, you want to get to your destination and get the hell out of the car as quickly as possible.
I agree, I like Nazi cars better than Jap car too
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