Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series

6 Series
The BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-25-2013, 03:05 PM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
645Ci Valvetronic Intermediate Lever Spring Loose

Hi guys,

First of all a big hello! A great forum that I have used A LOT! Very useful.

I have been working on a E63 645Ci 2004 with 170k miles on it. It has loads of problems that I have been getting through. I basically stripped the engine down- heads off to sort out timing chain guides (with updated guides), crankshaft seal, timing case leaks, alternator bracket oil leak, valve cover leaks, intake manifold gasket leaks, coolant return pipe leak and valley pan leak (I'm sure there's more) all seem common N62 problems.

I have attached some pics for amusement. I will also be adding some more pics for a DIY on the valve cover gasket replacement.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040401.JPG
Views:	194
Size:	119.2 KB
ID:	368127 Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040406.JPG
Views:	162
Size:	121.7 KB
ID:	368128 Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040410.JPG
Views:	210
Size:	131.5 KB
ID:	368129

The problem I now have is a constant misfire on cylinder 5 only when warm at idle. Swapped plug, coil and injector. No different. Compression close to 200psi. Engine roughness chart in INPA shows a massive difference for no. 5 (+12! so fault code 2743 misfire detection no. 5). Spray brake cleaner around to check for air leaks. No change in idle. Misfire gets worse as engine warms up. So I dig a little deeper- research on Valvetronic shows as car warms valve lift is reduced. I then unplug eccentric shaft sensors to force Valvetronic into emergency mode (max valve lift). Engine roughness now all around zero for every cylinder including no. 5. Now upon researching Valvetronic problems I get quite depressed!

So I remove the valve cover again and expect eccentric shaft or intermediate lever wear. Although I did not note any wear when inspecting heads- but I obvioulsy did not look close enough-

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040515 2.jpg
Views:	649
Size:	143.1 KB
ID:	368136

If you're still with me... How would this happen? This is the retainer spring for the lever has popped out of the holder on both sides! Maybe when handling the heads or removing/installing I caught it. Has the spring broken or can I just pop it back into the holder each side?

Many, many thanks in advance!

Andrew

Last edited by sick645ci; 03-25-2013 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Tidy up
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 03-25-2013, 05:51 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,541
Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
Talk about jumping in with both feet! With 170k & the heads off, why did you not pull the motor? Sounds like you have reassembled everything, & found a problem. That makes for no fun, but I am sure you know that by now. Tell us your story of how far you went? Also sounds like you might have worked on a BMW before.

Welcome Aboard!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-26-2013, 03:02 AM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbP View Post
Talk about jumping in with both feet! With 170k & the heads off, why did you not pull the motor? Sounds like you have reassembled everything, & found a problem. That makes for no fun, but I am sure you know that by now. Tell us your story of how far you went? Also sounds like you might have worked on a BMW before.

Welcome Aboard!
Thanks!!!

Yes I was 50/50 about pulling the engine. Had I known all the extra problems I would find I would have been 99/1!

Tip- I managed to pull the heads off with exhaust manifolds still on. This is a two person job though.

Well the engine was stripped down as far as you can see above. The heads were very lightly skimmed just really to remove old gasket remnants.

My car is an E39 535i non-vanos. About ten times as simple! This 645Ci (E64 I think- convertible) belongs to a friend of a friend. I said I'd kindly look at it as I had some free time... Weeks later here we are! I have learned a lot though by taking this on. Many hours of researching the N62 beast.

I have popped the spring back in place and finished re-assembly last night. Will be firing her up this morning so will update with result.

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-26-2013, 04:30 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
Regional Sponsor
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 594
Mein Auto: X3
The engine needs to be at TDC (cylinder #1 compression) before you remove the intake camshafts. If you miss this step, the levers/springs usually pop out during reassembly. Good job with everything though, good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:25 AM
645/333's Avatar
645/333 645/333 is offline
Michael
Location: uk
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,160
Mein Auto: Black Sapphire BMW Z4 3L
Hi, Well thank you for putting some key pictures of your engine strip down, I think this is excellent
With reference to the coolant pipe issue, one of the biggest issues with the N62 engine, your pictures highlight how poorly designed and engineered this engine is !!!!!! The state of the corrosion surrounding that area is appalling, I recognize that the car has done 170K but when you consider how often this is happening at much much lower mileages, it is a disgrace.
I sincerely hope you keep up with the pictures and actions undertaken as many forum members will benefit.
Finally I hope that when all your work is complete that you bring the big girl back to life and enjoy the benefits of all your hard work!!!!
__________________

Does my bum look good in this !
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:00 AM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
The engine needs to be at TDC (cylinder #1 compression) before you remove the intake camshafts. If you miss this step, the levers/springs usually pop out during reassembly. Good job with everything though, good luck!
Ah, thanks for that. I did have it at TDC with the camshafts pointing in the correct direction. Maybe I turned the intake camshaft slightly when loosening the bolt. I did have a spanner holding it but wasn't the easiest to do on my own.

Many thanks for the pointer.

Also thanks to wilson009 for his thread that I found very helpful: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=417251

N62 Timing[1].pdf
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:06 AM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by 645/333 View Post
Hi, Well thank you for putting some key pictures of your engine strip down, I think this is excellent
With reference to the coolant pipe issue, one of the biggest issues with the N62 engine, your pictures highlight how poorly designed and engineered this engine is !!!!!! The state of the corrosion surrounding that area is appalling, I recognize that the car has done 170K but when you consider how often this is happening at much much lower mileages, it is a disgrace.
I sincerely hope you keep up with the pictures and actions undertaken as many forum members will benefit.
Finally I hope that when all your work is complete that you bring the big girl back to life and enjoy the benefits of all your hard work!!!!
I just love pictures of engine work! I've got a load of pictures from the valve cover removal that I will edit and upload soon.

The coolant pipe is so silly and I really feel for owners that have this issue as the labour is the killer. I fitted the new OEM pipe with extra sealant around it to prolong it.

Progress.... See next post....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:50 AM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
It now idles like a dream! I'm so happy!

Popped the spring back into place and started it this morning. After warm-up no misfire. I had to adjust the valve lift slightly maybe as it was now running correctly with old values. This was to get the 'actual value stroke' to match up with 'set point stroke' in INPA. Vacuum/intake manifold pressure surging issues now cleared up as well.

Here are some screen shots from INPA live data (I must say the amount of info and data these things give out is amazing) -

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040548.JPG
Views:	161
Size:	63.8 KB
ID:	368300 Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040551.JPG
Views:	133
Size:	48.3 KB
ID:	368301 Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040552.JPG
Views:	117
Size:	60.7 KB
ID:	368302

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040577.JPG
Views:	123
Size:	66.1 KB
ID:	368303 Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040578.JPG
Views:	100
Size:	53.2 KB
ID:	368304 Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040579.JPG
Views:	122
Size:	52.0 KB
ID:	368305
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-27-2013, 06:25 AM
sudnut sudnut is offline
Registered User
Location: World's Biggest Island
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12
Mein Auto: E46 318i
Sick645ci,

Thanks for posting up your repair and pics. I am dealing with the N42 valvetronic 4 cylinder engine and trying to learn about its VVT. Were you able to adjust valve lift through INPA or is it done manually somehow? Did you try using DIS GT1? Cheers.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-27-2013, 06:44 AM
dolfan13's Avatar
dolfan13 dolfan13 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: lexington,ky usa
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 823
Mein Auto: 545i
.

Last edited by dolfan13; 08-27-2013 at 12:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:25 PM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudnut View Post
Sick645ci,

Thanks for posting up your repair and pics. I am dealing with the N42 valvetronic 4 cylinder engine and trying to learn about its VVT. Were you able to adjust valve lift through INPA or is it done manually somehow? Did you try using DIS GT1? Cheers.
Hi, yes I was able to adjust it in INPA. This is to adjust the minimum valve lift amount at idle. The pic above with a screenshot of 'VVT setting' shows it can be set to extra lift of 0mm to 1mm in increments of about 0.1mm. You will be able to do this with a GT1 as well.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:33 PM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orlando ,Fl
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 180
Mein Auto: E53 N62; E90 N52
645Ci Valvetronic Intermediate Lever Spring Loose

Same exact thing happened to me when I replaced my valve seals... Cylinder 5 lever spring jumped off... I guess we have to be careful that the lever compresses the valve spring evenly when reinstalling. Glad you succeeded!

I hope you changed the water pipe too! That thing leaks between 80k and 200k.

Way cheaper to change it with the lower timing case off.

Did you resurface the heads?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:59 PM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk View Post
Same exact thing happened to me when I replaced my valve seals... Cylinder 5 lever spring jumped off... I guess we have to be careful that the lever compresses the valve spring evenly when reinstalling. Glad you succeeded!

I hope you changed the water pipe too! That thing leaks between 80k and 200k.

Way cheaper to change it with the lower timing case off.

Did you resurface the heads?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Hey, yeah thanks. I was so happy when I found it! Well done for finding it too. The heads were skimmed as slightly warped.

Infamous water pipe definitely done! I was shocked at what a state the large bonded o-ring was in.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-27-2014, 09:56 PM
ROSSBOSS ROSSBOSS is offline
Registered User
Location: NY/NY
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: E70 4.8
Spring out of position

Hello,

First I would like to thank you for posting, you have been very helpful... I too have the same exact rough idle after warm up problem at cylinder 5. After taking my X5 to an indy shop and then to the dealer they could not find the problem. They wanted to take the heads off to do further inspection but once they gave me a quote on what it was going to cost and no guarantee on what they would find I decided to have a look for myself. So long the short, I get the valve cover off and at cylinder 5 for both intermediate lever retainer springs were out of position just exactly like your photo.

I'm not sure how this could have happened. I purchased the truck a few months go, 2007 X5 4.8 it has 90k miles on it. The truck drove fine when I purchased it, no rough idle at all. I think the springs could have popped out from driving too hard, getting the RPMs too high, close to red line.

My question for you is, how is your car running now? After just putting the spring back in it's proper position did you have any problems, anything need to be replaced?

Thanks.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140427_002712.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	225.2 KB
ID:	436210

Last edited by ROSSBOSS; 05-01-2014 at 05:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-28-2014, 05:36 AM
sick645ci sick645ci is offline
Registered User
Location: UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Mein Auto: 645Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROSSBOSS View Post
Hello,

My question for you is, how is your car running now? After just putting the spring back in it's proper position did you have any problems, anything need to be replaced?

Thanks.

Attachment 436210
You are most welcome and well done for finding the fault!

One year on and the car has been fine. Nothing had to be replaced. Mine happened during engine work so hard to say about yours. Although your theory of over-revving sounds possible. Hard not to with the V8 though!

Any history of recent engine work?

Fingers crossed for you that it is sorted.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-01-2014, 06:17 PM
ROSSBOSS ROSSBOSS is offline
Registered User
Location: NY/NY
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: E70 4.8
The Fix

So after putting the Intermediate Lever Spring back into position the problem has gone away. No more misfire at cylinder 5, running smooth.

These are the steps I took to figure out this problem:

Replaced Spark Plugs
Moved Coils
Moved Injectors
Compression Test
Leak Down Test
Removed Eccentric Shaft Sensor Connector

After removing the Eccentric Shaft Sensor Connector I was able to pin point the problem. By removing this connector the eccentric shaft moves to a default position (this should be done with the vehicle turned off). After turning the engine back on the misfire was no long present which led me to removing the valve cover for inspection.

Last edited by ROSSBOSS; 05-01-2014 at 06:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms