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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:56 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And that is where you would be incorrect.

A 335i without Sport line and without the dynamic handling package is nothing like what you describe. The 328i on the base suspension is loose enough, with the extra kick of the 300 horses the body lean and float would drive you crazy. The XDrive suspension is even softer, would be like a 600 HP school bus.

Said it before and I'll say it again: the big gamechanger for this generation of the 3 Series is that you no longer get the legendary handling and suspension that was standard for the past 20 years. You have to pay for it.

BJ
I'm taking turns now on a 328i xdrive (prem, tech, light, cw) in the 80s/90s easy. I'd say its a 5-15mph upgrade in confidence over a non sport equipped e90. If you aren't trying to go hard on turns after my 300 miles I wouldn't recommend a buyer needing the dhp.

CW, DAP, LP, PP, and Tech seems like the perfect combo unless you need that extra bit of handling or HK for sound.

For me on a budget I'd get:
Cold Weather Package
Lighting Package
Premium Package
Technology Package
(id still really want DAP)

Right way to do it:
Cold Weather Package
Driver Assistance Package
Dynamic Handling Package
Lighting Package
Premium Package
Technology Package
Harman Kardon surround sound system
Anti-theft alarm system

Last edited by SuperTerp; 03-31-2013 at 06:01 PM.
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  #52  
Old 03-31-2013, 06:08 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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I would never get a BMW without a sport suspension. First dollars always go to chassis.
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Last edited by Robert A; 03-31-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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  #53  
Old 03-31-2013, 06:15 PM
gooer gooer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And that is where you would be incorrect.

A 335i without Sport line and without the dynamic handling package is nothing like what you describe. The 328i on the base suspension is loose enough, with the extra kick of the 300 horses the body lean and float would drive you crazy. The XDrive suspension is even softer, would be like a 600 HP school bus.

Said it before and I'll say it again: the big gamechanger for this generation of the 3 Series is that you no longer get the legendary handling and suspension that was standard for the past 20 years. You have to pay for it.

BJ
What you're forgetting is that DHP only costs 1000 dollars.. a value compared to premium package and tech package, not a game changer by any stretch of the imagination (especially if it's your only option).
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  #54  
Old 03-31-2013, 06:24 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Originally Posted by gooer View Post
What you're forgetting is that DHP only costs 1000 dollars.. a value compared to premium package and tech package, not a game changer by any stretch of the imagination (especially if it's your only option).
I can't speak to if the DHP would be night and day, but you'll for sure notice a night and day between day-to-day use of tech/prem.

If once a week I took a turn and said WOW glad I got DHP it would be far from having the comforts the others can afford each and every day.
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  #55  
Old 03-31-2013, 06:24 PM
sr5959 sr5959 is online now
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One of the most interesting threads I've read on the forum, good job guys!
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  #56  
Old 03-31-2013, 06:31 PM
gooer gooer is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
I can't speak to if the DHP would be night and day, but you'll for sure notice a night and day between day-to-day use of tech/prem.

If once a week I took a turn and said WOW glad I got DHP it would be far from having the comforts the others can afford each and every day.
I agree.
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  #57  
Old 03-31-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
I can't speak to if the DHP would be night and day, but you'll for sure notice a night and day between day-to-day use of tech/prem.

If once a week I took a turn and said WOW glad I got DHP it would be far from having the comforts the others can afford each and every day.
DHP is really cool. I took my car on a nice drive today, and ended up on a road that was in very bad condition. Switched to comfort mode, and that was really nice. As soon as I got back on a smooth road that was suitable for pushing the car, I switched back to sport. Love it, just love it.
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  #58  
Old 03-31-2013, 06:47 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Originally Posted by krash View Post
DHP is really cool. I took my car on a nice drive today, and ended up on a road that was in very bad condition. Switched to comfort mode, and that was really nice. As soon as I got back on a smooth road that was suitable for pushing the car, I switched back to sport. Love it, just love it.
DHP isn't the only way to get to select the mode the car is in. I believe it adds sport+ and variable steering.
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  #59  
Old 03-31-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
DHP isn't the only way to get to select the mode the car is in. I believe it adds sport+ and variable steering.
DHP is the only way to adjust the firmness of the suspension. When you have DHP, the suspension settings are adjusted along with the rev settings.

For example, without DHP, you can switch between comfort, Eco, and sport modes, but that only adjusts how the engine revs. Eco is the Toyota Prius mode. Comfort is the Acura TL mode. Sport mode keeps the engine revving and is really great for driving like a lunatic, but warning, it sucks gas dry (still the most fun though).


With DHP mode, it also adjusts the suspension when selecting a mode. Comfort is just that. It's a cushier drive. Sport mode is very tight and firm. Sport + is just like sport but shuts off traction control for even more performance (ideal for a track). Someone said sport + is only available on the sport line and M sport. That could be true. All I know is my car has it.

One other thing, relative to other cars out there, comfort mode might still seem tight and firm to some folks.

EDIT: it does add variable steering too, which is also really nice...
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Last edited by krash; 03-31-2013 at 07:43 PM.
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  #60  
Old 03-31-2013, 08:32 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
DHP is the only way to adjust the firmness of the suspension. When you have DHP, the suspension settings are adjusted along with the rev settings.

For example, without DHP, you can switch between comfort, Eco, and sport modes, but that only adjusts how the engine revs. Eco is the Toyota Prius mode. Comfort is the Acura TL mode. Sport mode keeps the engine revving and is really great for driving like a lunatic, but warning, it sucks gas dry (still the most fun though).


With DHP mode, it also adjusts the suspension when selecting a mode. Comfort is just that. It's a cushier drive. Sport mode is very tight and firm. Sport + is just like sport but shuts off traction control for even more performance (ideal for a track). Someone said sport + is only available on the sport line and M sport. That could be true. All I know is my car has it.

One other thing, relative to other cars out there, comfort mode might still seem tight and firm to some folks.

EDIT: it does add variable steering too, which is also really nice...

Gotcha I guess I only notice the rev changes with this loaner... Either way I just personally couldn't see as you said having 1 day or a few times where I could push the car outweighing the benefits the others provide that I've enjoyed playing with and really haven't given a thought to the suspension (this coming from a person who just put dinan stage 3 suspension on their 335i)

I personally feel the same about the stereo although the more I play with it the less I like it (dislike the capped volume, bass sucks on certain songs/genre of music), but for those that don't pick up on those things or won't make use of them is the reason I could safely say at least from my view you could throw the car around corners all day at 60-70 (or in my case 80-90 when in the right setting and on the right corner) and probably feel better about skimping on DHP then if you didn't get the tech package. Or if you aren't a stereo nut feel fine and not like your ears are bleeding like the e90s base system if you passed on the HK (I had a 28i non premium audio car too and it was night and day WORSE than this base f30s sound system).

Last edited by SuperTerp; 03-31-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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  #61  
Old 03-31-2013, 10:16 PM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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With DHP, is there a way to firm up the suspension in Comfort mode?
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  #62  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by HokieXDriver View Post
With DHP, is there a way to firm up the suspension in Comfort mode?
No, you can't mix and match the modes. Only way to get firm suspension is to be in sport mode.
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  #63  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
Gotcha I guess I only notice the rev changes with this loaner... Either way I just personally couldn't see as you said having 1 day or a few times where I could push the car outweighing the benefits the others provide that I've enjoyed playing with and really haven't given a thought to the suspension (this coming from a person who just put dinan stage 3 suspension on their 335i)

I personally feel the same about the stereo although the more I play with it the less I like it (dislike the capped volume, bass sucks on certain songs/genre of music), but for those that don't pick up on those things or won't make use of them is the reason I could safely say at least from my view you could throw the car around corners all day at 60-70 (or in my case 80-90 when in the right setting and on the right corner) and probably feel better about skimping on DHP then if you didn't get the tech package. Or if you aren't a stereo nut feel fine and not like your ears are bleeding like the e90s base system if you passed on the HK (I had a 28i non premium audio car too and it was night and day WORSE than this base f30s sound system).
Plus you can always upgrade the suspension and stereo yourself, but not the tech/ premium goodies.
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  #64  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:41 AM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Originally Posted by krash View Post
No, you can't mix and match the modes. Only way to get firm suspension is to be in sport mode.
I see, thanks. When I was taking the test drive, the CA showed me something on the iDrive and said something like, this is where you can adjust the drivetrain, chassis, etc. That's why I thought there were individual settings. I admit I wasn't paying attention because there was traffic and we were approaching lights.
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  #65  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by HokieXDriver View Post
I see, thanks. When I was taking the test drive, the CA showed me something on the iDrive and said something like, this is where you can adjust the drivetrain, chassis, etc. That's why I thought there were individual settings. I admit I wasn't paying attention because there was traffic and we were approaching lights.
The one thing to point out though is that if you have the sport line or M Sport, don't have DHP, then you can be in comfort mode, and still have the firm suspension. Reason being is that you will always have the firm suspension. No way to adjust the dampening.

DHP is the only way you can adjust the dampening, but you can't mix and match the modes.
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  #66  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:33 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
If one is looking for "value", a stripped 3 Series is a terrible choice. Is it still a nice car? Sure. But it can be confusing for those who remember the BMW heritage and didn't get the memo that with the F30 you have to pay to get the legendary handling/performance that you used to get as standard equipment.

It is generally considered a bad thing to recommend someone just buy the car for the badge, yet that is the only real reason for your thesis. While the $31,000 F30 is the same price as a Honda Accord and thus you can make the argument that it's a great 'value', the devil is in the details. You need to spend at least $41,000 on the BMW just to get the same set of options found on the Accord, maybe even more. The F30 is still a far more expensive car; stripping out the features equalizes the sticker but leaves you with a bad value.

There was a time when a stripped 3 Series was a noble decision. You could live without the options and still get a tight performance car. But today, that's not the case. It's important to note that.

BJ
Could not disagree more BJ. First of all comparing a RWD car to a FWD is folly. Unless you are badge shopping and don't care about the dynamic advantages of RWD, an Accord is a much better bargain. Personally I could care less about getting a lot of luxury features. I might be happy in a no line 328i with MT and dynamic handling. I like having luxury features but an Accord is not remotely on my radar as a performance oriented value buyer. I can't budget for a $41K+ BMW but a more basic model might be in my range.
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  #67  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:43 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
+1

And while it used to be blasphemous to say that a weaker engine could create the better 3 Series, that's not necessarily the case anymore.

With the smaller powerplant, it's conceivable that one doesn't need the Sport package and it's Adaptive M Supension on the 320i, might be tight in the corners as-is because it has less power, less torque, lighter weight, might escape the body roll issue.

BJ
What does power have to do with cornering ability? Nothing at all. I would imagine there is plenty of power in a 320i to tax the suspension on the base model. For me the 320i would need to have the Sport package. It's all about being able to use the power you have in a challenging curve and to do that you need a taut suspension with a lot of control.
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  #68  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:08 AM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Great discussion!

What are your thoughts on the following items from the perspective of a "Value Shopper"?
  • Choosing a Certified Pre-Owned F30 rather than a new one
  • European Delivery, if one does go the new car route
I've spoken to many people about this. Buying a car that's less than 3 years old and has 20-30K miles on it is optimal from a value perspective; the most amount of depreciation occurs during that time period. If I went that route with a BMW I would extend the warranty to 100K miles on a CPO. With CarFax and other such services the new buyer to check the service records for these used cars and increase the likelihood of not buying someone else's lemon.

I bought a Toyota Land Cruiser when my kids were young this way and this may have been the best vehicle investment I ever made in my life. Gone are the days of cheap gas, though.
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  #69  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:40 AM
shabadoo25 shabadoo25 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
I've spoken to many people about this. Buying a car that's less than 3 years old and has 20-30K miles on it is optimal from a value perspective; the most amount of depreciation occurs during that time period. If I went that route with a BMW I would extend the warranty to 100K miles on a CPO. With CarFax and other such services the new buyer to check the service records for these used cars and increase the likelihood of not buying someone else's lemon.

I bought a Toyota Land Cruiser when my kids were young this way and this may have been the best vehicle investment I ever made in my life. Gone are the days of cheap gas, though.
I took this route with my last BMW--a CPO 2008 335i. The water pump failed within the first 6 months of ownership.

Also, I'm glad to see this thread returned to its purpose. For awhile it got sidetracked into discussions of the E60 vs. M3 for no apparent reason.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:11 AM
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Hi all, been lurking for a few months doing research and had a question about DHP since we're on that topic. Looking into getting into a 328i with x-drive so from what I understand the suspension will be the same regardless of which line I go with. Seems to be a lot of recommendations to go with DHP especially if going with x-drive. Haven't been on any test drives, but from looking at local inventory, haven't come across a build with it as an option.

Anyway to convey what having DHP vs not having DHP is like? Coming from a Toyota Corolla, so in my head, anything is going to handle better...
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  #71  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:06 AM
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krash krash is offline
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Hi all, been lurking for a few months doing research and had a question about DHP since we're on that topic. Looking into getting into a 328i with x-drive so from what I understand the suspension will be the same regardless of which line I go with. Seems to be a lot of recommendations to go with DHP especially if going with x-drive. Haven't been on any test drives, but from looking at local inventory, haven't come across a build with it as an option.

Anyway to convey what having DHP vs not having DHP is like? Coming from a Toyota Corolla, so in my head, anything is going to handle better...
This quote below describes DHP pretty good. Basically, if you go with x-drive, the suspension may seem soft and too cushy for you (like a Lexus ES). Important to note is that "may" is the key word there. Most folks on the 'Fest are performance enthusiasts and demand a tight and firm suspension. However, it's all relative, because some might view the base AWD suspension as perfect.

DHP gives folks the option to firm it up and make it tighter. You can feel the road better. You can do this by setting it to Sport Mode.

DHP also adds variable steering too, which is really nice.

It is tough to find a car on a lot with DHP - so you may never be able to test this for yourself before ordering it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
DHP is the only way to adjust the firmness of the suspension. When you have DHP, the suspension settings are adjusted along with the rev settings.

For example, without DHP, you can switch between comfort, Eco, and sport modes, but that only adjusts how the engine revs. Eco is the Toyota Prius mode. Comfort is the Acura TL mode. Sport mode keeps the engine revving and is really great for driving like a lunatic, but warning, it sucks gas dry (still the most fun though).


With DHP mode, it also adjusts the suspension when selecting a mode. Comfort is just that. It's a cushier drive. Sport mode is very tight and firm. Sport + is just like sport but shuts off traction control for even more performance (ideal for a track). Someone said sport + is only available on the sport line and M sport. That could be true. All I know is my car has it.

One other thing, relative to other cars out there, comfort mode might still seem tight and firm to some folks.

EDIT: it does add variable steering too, which is also really nice...
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Last edited by krash; 04-01-2013 at 10:08 AM.
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  #72  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:07 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Originally Posted by hans007 View Post

everytime i've sat in a F10 5 series, it doesnt strike me as "much better quality" or anything like that other than being bigger.
You are the type of customer that car companies love, as you cannot discern at all between hard and soft plastic.

The 5-Series interior is equal in quality with the 7-Series' -most probably because they share the same chassis architecture. The 3-Series interior is similar in quality with the 1-Series (Euro) interior -same architecture, again.
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  #73  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:23 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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A Value Shopper F30 would be an Imperial Blue 320i fully loaded, ED and trunk money. That should be less than $40,000 before taxes. Then wait for the JB3/tune for this car to put it at 250hp and 300ftlbs. Sweet.

A much sweeter deal would be to convince Individual to put a Saddle Brown interior -with black dash- and the HUD. Charge me $3500 for a combo like that and now we are talking dammit.
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  #74  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
You are the type of customer that car companies love, as you cannot discern at all between hard and soft plastic.

The 5-Series interior is equal in quality with the 7-Series' -most probably because they share the same chassis architecture. The 3-Series interior is similar in quality with the 1-Series (Euro) interior -same architecture, again.
I think people are missing the point what some of us were suggesting.

In today's world, no doubt. A 3 is NOT in the same category as the 5. Period. The 5 is really really nice. You'd have to be blind not to notice the improvement in the 5 over the 3.

However, relative to a 5 (E39) of 10 years ago, the current 3; especially when fully loaded is definitely comparable to a 5 of that era in terms of the overall package, and that certainly is true going back even further in time.

Again, we're talking overall package in terms of size, features, performance, etc. Today's 3 has features and creature comforts that those 5 series never had back then, and performance is clearly better.
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  #75  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by krash View Post
I think people are missing the point what some of us were suggesting.

In today's world, no doubt. A 3 is NOT in the same category as the 5. Period. The 5 is really really nice. You'd have to be blind not to notice the improvement in the 5 over the 3.

However, relative to a 5 (E39) of 10 years ago, the current 3; especially when fully loaded is definitely comparable to a 5 of that era in terms of the overall package, and that certainly is true going back even further in time.

Again, we're talking overall package in terms of size, features, performance, etc. Today's 3 has features and creature comforts that those 5 series never had back then, and performance is clearly better.
I got the original point.

The point that does not make any sense to me is saying that the F10 interior is of no "much better quality" than the F30.
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