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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:21 PM
whoever whoever is offline
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The 4 banger turbo lag?

Driving a 528 loaner. When I step on gas, there're two distinct delayed surge of power. Seems like the twin power turbo kicking in.

I thought the new turbo and 8 speed supposed to solve the turbo lag. Not true? Does 328 behave the same way? How do you get something more natural? 335? Can't afford 550 anytime soon


Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:28 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Driving mode might have something to do with it. 328 in Sport with a 6spd manual, lag is pretty much nil...peak to torque at 1250rpms is dang close to idle.

But if you can swing the 335 without any concerns, why not?
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:29 PM
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In anything but sport mode there is some lag, by design. Put it in sport and that all goes away.

Tim
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:36 PM
whoever whoever is offline
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Thanks. Will give it a try tomorrow. Not sure what package the car has, so maybe just shift in sports mode?

At least now I know what people complained about the steering. It's weird. Good, accurate but not satisfying.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:50 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoever View Post
...I thought the new turbo and 8 speed supposed to solve the turbo lag. Not true? ....
Let's be clear: NOTHING will solve turbo lag (entirely.) There will always be some. The original (N54 and M57) twin-turbo scheme moderates it quite a bit. The newer dual-scroll N55 & N20 is cheaper but (probably) has a bit more lag.

As mentioned, DS mode and/or starting in first gear help (but they also may end up spinning the tires and causing DSC to kick in.) Oh, for a LSD.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:27 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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I notice turbo lag anywhere below 3000 rpms.

Full torque at 1300 rpms doesn't mean the turbo is fully spooled AND producing compression in the combustion chamber at all times when off throttle.
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  #7  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:31 AM
328 M Sport 328 M Sport is offline
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No lag at all!!

Own a 328 X Drive M Sport with N20 4 Cylinder Turbo. This engine is incredible! If there is Lag, its not easy to detect; she screams as soon as I put her in Sport mode. Does all this and averaging 28 MPG!
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  #8  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:05 PM
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Own a 328 X Drive M Sport with N20 4 Cylinder Turbo. This engine is incredible! If there is Lag, its not easy to detect; she screams as soon as I put her in Sport mode. Does all this and averaging 28 MPG!
Turbo lag is most noticed when you start from a stop at normal acceleration. It's not smooth like you get with a non turbo engine. The only turbo car that I had near zero turbo lag was a Mercedes S600 with a 12 cylinder engine with bi-turbos.
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  #9  
Old 04-11-2013, 01:15 PM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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You want turbo lag? Drive my VW 1.8T

It's true that any turbo engine will have lag of some sort. In fact, all internal combustion engines will lag, even a normally aspirated at too low an RPM. If you want true lag-free driving that will nail you to your seat from the moment you touch the go pedal from a stop... drive an electric car like the Tesla.
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  #10  
Old 04-11-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBS3SSION View Post
You want turbo lag? Drive my VW 1.8T

It's true that any turbo engine will have lag of some sort. In fact, all internal combustion engines will lag, even a normally aspirated at too low an RPM. If you want true lag-free driving that will nail you to your seat from the moment you touch the go pedal from a stop... drive an electric car like the Tesla.
This one of the White Zombie is a classic if you haven't seen it yet:
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  #11  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBS3SSION View Post
You want turbo lag? Drive my VW 1.8T

It's true that any turbo engine will have lag of some sort. In fact, all internal combustion engines will lag, even a normally aspirated at too low an RPM. If you want true lag-free driving that will nail you to your seat from the moment you touch the go pedal from a stop... drive an electric car like the Tesla.
Finally someone who knows what they're talking about. 100% correct. My M5 has lag if its in the wrong gear and on a hot day, my GP has SC lag also (if in the wrong gear). The twin scroll design is less prone to lag by design.

Let me help you guys out http://www.popsci.com/content/two-one-turbocharger
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2013, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBS3SSION View Post
You want turbo lag? Drive my VW 1.8T

It's true that any turbo engine will have lag of some sort. In fact, all internal combustion engines will lag, even a normally aspirated at too low an RPM. If you want true lag-free driving that will nail you to your seat from the moment you touch the go pedal from a stop... drive an electric car like the Tesla.
Don't confuse turbo lag with what you call lag with an NA engine at too low an RPM. That's called lugging the engine. I have no lag when driving my Porsche, but I also do not try to lug the engine at low engine speeds.
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2013, 10:36 AM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Don't confuse turbo lag with what you call lag with an NA engine at too low an RPM. That's called lugging the engine. I have no lag when driving my Porsche, but I also do not try to lug the engine at low engine speeds.
Well, my point was that internal combustion engines have disparities in their power output depending on the conditions in which it is being run (low RPM, lack of boost, etc.)
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  #14  
Old 04-12-2013, 02:31 PM
Geekenstein Geekenstein is offline
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As others have said, it's difficult to tell the difference between lugging the engine and turbo lag. I certainly didn't notice the turbo lag when I test drove, but now that I've gotten accustomed to the feel, I'd say it is very noticeable. That is to say if you accelerate hard from a low rpm to a higher rpm, you feel the engine pull much harder at the higher rpm than if you just suddenly stomp on the gas at the same high rpm. It's clearly a delayed response as opposed to simply climbing up the torque curve as the revs increase.
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  #15  
Old 04-12-2013, 03:17 PM
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Btw, is there a JB for the N20 yet? I'd love to see some overboost to get 300hp
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:29 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Btw, is there a JB for the N20 yet? I'd love to see some overboost to get 300hp
Yes, stage 1 has been out for about a year.

I have it.

These are the results:



Problem is, that is just the gateway drug.

Testing of the JB4 has already begun and even better numbers are being shown.

They are doing auto's first, BMS offered to do my car in person, but I am not local enough so I have to wait a bit longer.

I plan on stopping at my goal of 300whp with stage 2 on 93 octane and full exhaust.
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  #17  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:00 PM
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Nice!!! I plan on doing it!
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:08 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Nice!!! I plan on doing it!
It's cheap hp. I paid $300 used for about 35whp. No complaints. The stage 1 is a bit timid but stage 2 does not require any hardware either and adds cool functions.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by OBS3SSION View Post
Well, my point was that internal combustion engines have disparities in their power output depending on the conditions in which it is being run (low RPM, lack of boost, etc.)
With an NA engine, primarily with a manual transmission where lugging the engine will most likely occur (as opposed to a car with an automatic transmission), you could lug an engine by starting off slowly in second or third gear as opposed to first gear, for example. It's not recommended in most driving circumstances (unless you're trying to get more traction on a slippery surface).
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Last edited by beden1; 04-12-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:20 PM
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BmwFlooner BmwFlooner is offline
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It's cheap hp. I paid $300 used for about 35whp. No complaints. The stage 1 is a bit timid but stage 2 does not require any hardware either and adds cool functions.
Out of curiosity, how does this impact maintenance costs and engine lifespan?
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:28 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Out of curiosity, how does this impact maintenance costs and engine lifespan?
Debatable.

Should not really affect maintenance. Stay on top of oil changes, might shorten clutch life by a small amount but I get 100k or more out of clutches.

Might shorten turbo life by a small amount, but that is another component that should last 100k.

I do not plan on owning this car past 50-65k miles.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:19 PM
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Debatable.

Should not really affect maintenance. Stay on top of oil changes, might shorten clutch life by a small amount but I get 100k or more out of clutches.

Might shorten turbo life by a small amount, but that is another component that should last 100k.

I do not plan on owning this car past 50-65k miles.
I plan on keeping the BMW for as long as makes sense. I may look hard at the PPK when it comes out, but I think I'd worry more about hurting the feel of the car in 'Comfort' I really like. Sport is a bit too harsh for me for putting around town, I'm digging the more relaxed throttle response and lazier right foot action

My Eclipse on the other hand is still a great little car. Couldn't bear to part with it. Needs some work. 120K and still on the original clutch - though after driving another manual for awhile it's probably due for a replacement. And a tuneup. And new tires. And brakes. I babied it for 11 years and it never let me down, but maybe now it's time to drive it like I was unwilling to when it was my DD.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:48 PM
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What's turbo lag?

~M3 owner
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoever View Post
Driving a 528 loaner. When I step on gas, there're two distinct delayed surge of power. Seems like the twin power turbo kicking in.

I thought the new turbo and 8 speed supposed to solve the turbo lag. Not true? Does 328 behave the same way? How do you get something more natural? 335? Can't afford 550 anytime soon


Thanks.
Get a used BMW with an NA engine. Problem solved.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:11 AM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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As others have said, it's difficult to tell the difference between lugging the engine and turbo lag.
For manual transmission drivers, one can never be mistaken for the other. Ever.
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