Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series

3 Series / 4 Series
The 3 Series / 4 Series Forum. If you would like to see all new posts in all the forums, click here.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-13-2004, 09:52 AM
KrisL's Avatar
KrisL KrisL is offline
Ubergeek
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,643
Send a message via AIM to KrisL Send a message via Yahoo to KrisL
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Drove a friend's 95 M3 last night...

I've driven other E36 M3s before. It was good to re-drive it now that I have my 330.

Some points:

* His shifter seemed to have a longer throw, but was smoother.
* His clutch engagement was *much* easier to manage. I was able to rev-match upshift without any practice. Blip/shift and go. I need to get rid of the CDV ASAP.
* His steering seemed overboosted compared to mine.
* My steering feels a lot more precise. He has stock suspension and 111k miles, so that probably contributed. I had a hard time feeling the limits of his car and therefore was apprehensive about pushing it hard. I think the limits are a lot more "visible" in the ZHP. Ironically, he thought my steering felt disconnected.
* Sound... oh man. He has an AA exhaust, which is pretty loud... but it sounded great. I want a car I can hear
* Power (and power delivery) felt nearly identical.


My next purchase will most likely be some 17x8.5 Kosei K1s w/ 245/40/17 V700s for autocrossing. Then maybe a UUC SSK. Then maybe exhaust? Ugh, this car is a mod money pit!
__________________

Last edited by KrisL; 08-13-2004 at 10:00 AM.
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 08-13-2004, 10:33 AM
KP's Avatar
KP KP is offline
Buyakasha!
Location: Durham, NC
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,037
Send a message via AIM to KP Send a message via MSN to KP
Mein Auto: MY01.5 325Ci/93 Miata
It's inevitable. The Kosei's are a great choice. Once you start, you can't stop
__________________

Sponsored by: WheelExperts/ModBargains
My Photo Album
  #3  
Old 08-13-2004, 10:44 AM
rwg rwg is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Acton CA
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,711
Mein Auto: '08 Z4
Your impressions are interesting. I traded a 330i for an e36 M3. I have test driven a 330i with the zhp package since then with a potential interest of trading again (I have a bad car buying habit). It was awhile ago, but I though that:

The e36 steering is lighter (too light imo), but the steering feel communicated through the wheel is worlds better than the 330. Perhaps that is what your friend meant by "disconnected." I also think the turn in and precision of the e36 steering is superior to the e46 (but the steering on the 318 is superior to the M3 imo).

The power delivery is similar unless you are pushing through corners. The best feature of the e36 over the 330 is the limited slip differential.

You didn't mention body roll. The e46 has lots more, even with the zhp package. Personally, I hate body roll.

I agree about the clutch. I had a ssk installed from almost day 1, so I don't know how stock to stock compares. I don't have an opinion about the exhaust (mine is now pretty much drowned out by the cai).

For me, the e36 was a better choice. But I wanted even more, so I have modded a bit to get rid of even more body roll, increase the power, and so on.

But I also recognize the weaknesses. The maintenance issues that start around 40k on the e36 are extensive, to say the least. Some people don't want to deal with water pumps that fail (even the ones with a metal impeller), radiator necks that crack, shock mounts that fail, rear trailing arm bushings that might come out, possible subframe tears, and so on. And some people just like the increased luxury and refinement of the e46.
  #4  
Old 08-13-2004, 10:49 AM
PhilH PhilH is offline
Audi, BMW or Porsche???
Location: Philadelphia, PA
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,923
Mein Auto: 2010 S4, 2004 X3 2.5i
I know the acceleration times and horspower numbers are similar, but is the power delivery really similar? I've never driven an E36 M3, but I've ridden in a couple, and the low end torque seemed much stronger in the E36 M3.
__________________
--My Garage--
Prior BMWs: 2003 330i, 1993 525i
  #5  
Old 08-13-2004, 10:51 AM
TD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mein Auto:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilH
I know the acceleration times and horspower numbers are similar, but is the power delivery really similar? I've never driven an E36 M3, but I've ridden in a couple, and the low end torque seemed much stronger in the E36 M3.
The E36 M3 comes on a good bit stronger IMO. And it doesn't have that power hiccup (flat spot) that the ZHP engine has around 4K RPM.
  #6  
Old 08-13-2004, 11:29 AM
PhilH PhilH is offline
Audi, BMW or Porsche???
Location: Philadelphia, PA
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,923
Mein Auto: 2010 S4, 2004 X3 2.5i
...then again, he was talking about a '95 M3, which would have the smaller 3.0 liter motor.
__________________
--My Garage--
Prior BMWs: 2003 330i, 1993 525i
  #7  
Old 08-13-2004, 11:35 AM
KP's Avatar
KP KP is offline
Buyakasha!
Location: Durham, NC
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,037
Send a message via AIM to KP Send a message via MSN to KP
Mein Auto: MY01.5 325Ci/93 Miata
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilH
...then again, he was talking about a '95 M3, which would have the smaller 3.0 liter motor.
Actually, I think the OBDI M3s feel/are peppier, and yes, the E36M3 and the ZHP power delivery are different. Like TD said, the E36 feels like it's pulling stronger.
__________________

Sponsored by: WheelExperts/ModBargains
My Photo Album
  #8  
Old 08-13-2004, 03:18 PM
Cal Cal is offline
Early roadfly migrant
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 281
Mein Auto: 13 535i 11 R350 98 M3/4
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisL
* My steering feels a lot more precise. He has stock suspension and 111k miles, so that probably contributed. I had a hard time feeling the limits of his car and therefore was apprehensive about pushing it hard. I think the limits are a lot more "visible" in the ZHP. Ironically, he thought my steering felt disconnected.
111K miles on the stock suspension?! The shocks were GONE by 50K, and so were the RSMs. I'm sure the car feels harsh, has lots of body roll, etc. Tell your friend to swap the suspension asap before he damages the shock towers.
__________________
13 535i M-sport
11 MB R350
04 MB E320
98 M3/4/5
00 323i (sold)
10 MB ML350 (sold)
08 MB GL450 (sold)
  #9  
Old 08-13-2004, 05:02 PM
KrisL's Avatar
KrisL KrisL is offline
Ubergeek
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,643
Send a message via AIM to KrisL Send a message via Yahoo to KrisL
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal
111K miles on the stock suspension?! The shocks were GONE by 50K, and so were the RSMs. I'm sure the car feels harsh, has lots of body roll, etc. Tell your friend to swap the suspension asap before he damages the shock towers.
He's already replaced the shock towers, and has new suspension on order.
__________________
  #10  
Old 08-14-2004, 09:06 PM
ride365 ride365 is offline
.
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 601
Mein Auto: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisL
He's already replaced the shock towers, and has new suspension on order.
tell him it's only fair for you to get another test drive once that's all sorted out
__________________
  #11  
Old 08-15-2004, 01:03 PM
sargepug sargepug is offline
3rd -3-
Location: Burbs of NYC
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325CI, Roush360R, X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisL
I've driven other E36 M3s before. It was good to re-drive it now that I have my 330.

Some points:

* His shifter seemed to have a longer throw, but was smoother.
* His clutch engagement was *much* easier to manage. I was able to rev-match upshift without any practice. Blip/shift and go. I need to get rid of the CDV ASAP.
* His steering seemed overboosted compared to mine.
* My steering feels a lot more precise. He has stock suspension and 111k miles, so that probably contributed. I had a hard time feeling the limits of his car and therefore was apprehensive about pushing it hard. I think the limits are a lot more "visible" in the ZHP. Ironically, he thought my steering felt disconnected.
* Sound... oh man. He has an AA exhaust, which is pretty loud... but it sounded great. I want a car I can hear
* Power (and power delivery) felt nearly identical.


My next purchase will most likely be some 17x8.5 Kosei K1s w/ 245/40/17 V700s for autocrossing. Then maybe a UUC SSK. Then maybe exhaust? Ugh, this car is a mod money pit!


I think the 95' M3 had less hp and trq compared to the later model E36 M3's. I had the last year of the #36 M3 (99') I can't see a 330Ci outperform a 99' M3 (a brand new one). I remember the numbers on my M3 were 0-60 in the low 5 sec range and the handling was supreme. I leased it for 3 years while living in Manhattan! I did drive it every day, because my main office was in the burbs. The $400 a month parking garage sucked, good thing i was able to write it off . Back to the topic, I had it 3 years and put about 34K on it and that mofo was a performer and will outperform a 330ci in sport trim. You know I should have kept the dam thing and I would have another toy
__________________
05' Cayenne S, 04' 325ci,
Roush 360R http://www.cardomain.com/id/sargepug
  #12  
Old 08-15-2004, 01:23 PM
KrisL's Avatar
KrisL KrisL is offline
Ubergeek
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,643
Send a message via AIM to KrisL Send a message via Yahoo to KrisL
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargepug
I remember the numbers on my M3 were 0-60 in the low 5 sec range and the handling was supreme.
Well, keep in mind I have a performance pkg car, which has 10 more HP and a higher final drive ratio compared to a regular 330 sport. Car & Driver measured a 0-60 of 5.6 for the 330i Perf Pkg (ZHP).
__________________
  #13  
Old 08-15-2004, 03:30 PM
sargepug sargepug is offline
3rd -3-
Location: Burbs of NYC
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325CI, Roush360R, X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisL
Well, keep in mind I have a performance pkg car, which has 10 more HP and a higher final drive ratio compared to a regular 330 sport. Car & Driver measured a 0-60 of 5.6 for the 330i Perf Pkg (ZHP).

Now I am getting somewhere, what is the zhp package? Oh, Now I remember, my M3's published numbers were 0-60 in 5.7. So that makes the acceleration even, how is your ZHP on the skidpad? I forget the M3's g numbers.
__________________
05' Cayenne S, 04' 325ci,
Roush 360R http://www.cardomain.com/id/sargepug
  #14  
Old 08-15-2004, 03:38 PM
KrisL's Avatar
KrisL KrisL is offline
Ubergeek
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 15,643
Send a message via AIM to KrisL Send a message via Yahoo to KrisL
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargepug
Now I am getting somewhere, what is the zhp package? Oh, Now I remember, my M3's published numbers were 0-60 in 5.7. So that makes the acceleration even, how is your ZHP on the skidpad? I forget the M3's g numbers.


See the "sticky" post I made at the top of this forum regarding the ZHP .


C&D measured the skidpad of the ZHP to be .86. Like I said in the original post, I didn't push his car to the limits, so I can't give a fair comparison of handling - only accel.
__________________

Last edited by KrisL; 08-15-2004 at 03:49 PM.
  #15  
Old 08-15-2004, 04:45 PM
sargepug sargepug is offline
3rd -3-
Location: Burbs of NYC
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325CI, Roush360R, X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisL
See the "sticky" post I made at the top of this forum regarding the ZHP .


C&D measured the skidpad of the ZHP to be .86. Like I said in the original post, I didn't push his car to the limits, so I can't give a fair comparison of handling - only accel.

Forget about his ride, you can't compare a winded 111k 95' M3 to your ZHP and guage E36 m3's by that. That's comparing apples and oranges. Like I said earlier the 95's also had less power than the 99's. You need to drive a pristine E36 M3 for a fair comparison. As far as that 95' M3 w/ 111k, your 330 ZHP should smoke it
__________________
05' Cayenne S, 04' 325ci,
Roush 360R http://www.cardomain.com/id/sargepug
  #16  
Old 08-15-2004, 05:10 PM
Nick325xiT 5spd's Avatar
Nick325xiT 5spd Nick325xiT 5spd is offline
Registered User
Location: Bethesda, MD
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,861
Send a message via ICQ to Nick325xiT 5spd Send a message via AIM to Nick325xiT 5spd Send a message via Yahoo to Nick325xiT 5spd
Mein Auto: M3 & 323i/999 KP
What I like about the '95 M3 is that you can get 300hp out of it without resorting to cams or FI. Try that in a 330.

I intend to pick one up relatively soon and put a cage in it.
__________________
2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD Duramax LBZ/Allison 6-speed
2002 BMW M3 Alpinweiß/Black
1999 323i KP/GTS2 Alpinweiß
1990 325is Brilliantrot/Tan
1989 325is S50B30US Alpinweiß/Black
1989 M3 Alpinweiß/Black S50B32 (321hp, ITBs)


  #17  
Old 08-15-2004, 10:27 PM
mkh's Avatar
mkh mkh is offline
.
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 909
Mein Auto: E90 330i, X3 3.0i
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargepug
I think the 95' M3 had less hp and trq compared to the later model E36 M3's.
To clear up some confusion, the '95 M3 with a 3.0L motor had 240hp and 225 lb-ft @ 4250rpm. From '97 after, the motor was increased to 3.2L but with NO horsepower gain. So it was still 240hp, but the torque went up to 236 lb-ft AND was also reached at a lower 3800rpm. That's the reason for the improved 0-60 time. The ZHP has a 3.0L motor with 235hp and 222 lb-ft @ 3500rpm. Therefore, just looking at the numbers, the ZHP is closer to the '95 M3 and is a tad slower than the E36 3.2L M3.
  #18  
Old 08-16-2004, 05:03 AM
sargepug sargepug is offline
3rd -3-
Location: Burbs of NYC
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325CI, Roush360R, X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh
To clear up some confusion, the '95 M3 with a 3.0L motor had 240hp and 225 lb-ft @ 4250rpm. From '97 after, the motor was increased to 3.2L but with NO horsepower gain. So it was still 240hp, but the torque went up to 236 lb-ft AND was also reached at a lower 3800rpm. That's the reason for the improved 0-60 time. The ZHP has a 3.0L motor with 235hp and 222 lb-ft @ 3500rpm. Therefore, just looking at the numbers, the ZHP is closer to the '95 M3 and is a tad slower than the E36 3.2L M3.

BRAVO
__________________
05' Cayenne S, 04' 325ci,
Roush 360R http://www.cardomain.com/id/sargepug
  #19  
Old 08-16-2004, 11:37 AM
rwg rwg is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Acton CA
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,711
Mein Auto: '08 Z4
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh
To clear up some confusion, the '95 M3 with a 3.0L motor had 240hp and 225 lb-ft @ 4250rpm. From '97 after, the motor was increased to 3.2L but with NO horsepower gain. So it was still 240hp, but the torque went up to 236 lb-ft AND was also reached at a lower 3800rpm. That's the reason for the improved 0-60 time. The ZHP has a 3.0L motor with 235hp and 222 lb-ft @ 3500rpm. Therefore, just looking at the numbers, the ZHP is closer to the '95 M3 and is a tad slower than the E36 3.2L M3.
Not that it matters, but - the engine change was in the '96 model year.
  #20  
Old 08-16-2004, 12:02 PM
mkh's Avatar
mkh mkh is offline
.
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 909
Mein Auto: E90 330i, X3 3.0i
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwg
Not that it matters, but - the engine change was in the '96 model year.
Sorry, my bad. I was thinking about the introduction of the 4-door when I was typing. Good catch!
 

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms