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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:21 AM
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ponti33609 ponti33609 is offline
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SAV Help - Guiadance

Hi - this is my first post so sort of an intro and advice if folks can.

I am 52 years old and have mostly owned Honda's and most recently a Toyota and know very little about BMW's. We are at a stage where we can "semi" afford one and my wife has always wanted one. The maintenance warranty has really allowed me to be okay with the choice.

My wife has a CR-V that I like because:

1. Parks easy
2. Short Turn Radius
3. Good Visabilty

Also - we live in downtown Tampa and our work commute is under 2 miles so a car for us is not even a true daily driver.

I would like to keep the purchase to be no-higher than lower 50's.

Considerations:
X5 35I
X3 28I
X3 35I

I think the X3 would fit our needs better (Just us, no kids, no dog). My concern is it seems to be within $5K of an X5 which my wife has test driven and liked. She will test drive both X3 versions this weekend and my guess is she will like the X3 also and guess it will seem more like her CR-V.

I am thinking X5 due to price difference even though the X3 may work better. So a few questions and will appreciate any other guidance:

1. Resale concerns after 4-6 years? One model (3 or 5) proven better than another? Research looks similar but wanted your experiences.

2. Buying last model year before the change an issue if we go with an X5? She loves the look and read lots here about 1st year bugs.

3. A 28I or 35I if she wants an X3? Again, I would lean toward a 35I but have read good things about the 28I engine too so confusing to me.

4. "Softball" Question - we have not investigated this but anyone with Mercedes ML experience? Why would we buy one of these instead?

5. Gas Mileage with the X5. Do you really get 16 around town? My wife's CR-V only gets 19 around town and am disappointed as it's a Honda. I think 16 for an X5 would be "okay" in my mind but curious if they are worse?

6. Would I be making a mistake buy a more basic X5 rather than a slightly better equipped X3? We do not use Nav. She really wants the leatherette (we have leather seats now and prefers cleaning of vinyl better). Only options she wants is keyless entry, auto tailgate, heated seats, panoramic roof. Am I missing something with a basic version?

Sorry this first post is longish but again, will appreciate any adice folks may want to share.

Regards,
Bob
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2013, 06:26 PM
pharding pharding is offline
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IMO the 35i is an awesome engine, with lower gas mileage than the 28i. If you get a well optioned X3, the purchase price difference is about $2200. So it boils to a well optioned X3 35i versus a spartan X5. Right now the X3 is a 2014 model and the X5 is a last model year 2013. The next generation X5 arrives this fall. They may be worth waiting for but it will be above your targeted price range. The resale value will be better on the 2014 X3 versus the 2013 X5 if you purchase now. Both my wife and I are really impressed by our 2014 X3. The size is perfect and it drives great. It is my wife's daily driver and she loves it. I like to use it on the weekends for hauling our bicycles or the occasional big items that don't fit in my 550i. The X3 is uber awesome.
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:51 PM
02420X3 02420X3 is online now
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As a 35i owner, albeit an '11, I think that the well-optioned '14 35i is the way to go.

One thing to be aware of though, is that you may to have to find a way to drive it more than just 2 miles each way to work. Perhaps the programming has been improved in the last year or two, but early F25s had a number of complaints about low-battery problems. The charging system on the X3, the AGM battery, BMW's Efficient Dynamics, and driving repeated very short trips did not do well together. It was a more frequent complaint with '11s and perhaps '12s than it has been with '13s, and '14s are too new to have any sort of track record. Hopefully, the dropoff in low-battery posts here means that BMW has found and corrected a flaw in their battery-charging algorithm.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:57 PM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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Have your wife read over the X5 boards if she hasn't already. Their reliability is worse than the X3's. I have a 35i X3 and have to say I'm impressed with its gas mileage. I get 20.2 around town and 28.5 on the highway and I tend to have a heavy foot. Can't say what real world mileage is on the X5.
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  #5  
Old 04-17-2013, 02:51 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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X3 all the way. I owned a crv once. I also looked at the x5 but I have a wife and two kids. Plus you don't want to look outdated after spending 50k on a car when the new x5 comes our
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  #6  
Old 04-17-2013, 03:53 AM
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ponti33609 ponti33609 is offline
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A follow-on question.

The 20 mpg sits ok with me. Like I said her current AWD CR-V only gets 19 so even 16-17 will be okay but was reading where the X5 can get as low as 12-13. We are going tomorrow evening and hope to nail this down. Couple other questions:

1. My wife is anti Nav system and uses he IPhone 5 for any navigation but we really know Florida and use it once a year. However, she does like playing her music. Without the Nav system will her IPhone still be playable thru the radio (I think the answer is yes) but I am trying to understand how much of a pain in the butt it will be. Honestly the toggle option doesn't seem all that easy anyway.

2. Any other packages to pay attention too? Premium package gets you the garage remote. Looks like that isn;t a separate option? Can my dealer put that in if I opt not to do that? I understand the biggest nut in the Premium is the leather seats.

3. Anything else we should consider? We have a Tandem so we will need the $285 mount which will then accept our Yakima Tandem Rack from my research.

Thx for all the input and will post the results. Will also check on the few miles at a time issue and I am aware this isn't good for any vehicle. Many days we walk or bike to work but good input.

Thx again,
Bob
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  #7  
Old 04-17-2013, 04:33 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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I would opt for the premium as you get leather comfort access, sat radio, and the moonroof (28i).

What about the backup camera? Take a look at drivers assistance.

As for nav, I would get it as in 2014, it will be bmws next gen system. You don't need the tech pkg only the nav option. This adds all the necessary options for iPhone and Bluetooth connectivity. I am not sure what you loose but I'm pretty certain that the seamless operation of iTunes and music won't be there without the nav.

Plus you get a much bigger screen.
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2013, 04:34 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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If you have dealer leverage, have them throw in the cross rails for the bike. I had mine throw in all weather mats but the cross rails are the same cost I think.
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  #9  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:07 AM
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ponti33609 ponti33609 is offline
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I pulled this from another thread (Configuration Tool). Based on suggestions (Besides rack yet) this maybe what we need to "build"? Does this look like I captured all? I didn't see things like Floor Mats that I see under assesories on the BMWUSA site?



http://www.bmwconfig.com/BmwConfig/C...c-b31a83323454

My BMW 2014 X3 xDrive35i (Mar 13)
U.S.A. Port of Entry

Wholesale MSRP
Base Vehicle (14XE) $41,125 $44,700

354 Titanium Silver Metallic $500 $550
4AD Brushed Aluminum trim $0 $0
LUCX Oyster Nevada Leather $0 $0
2EC 18" Light alloy Y spoke style 308 $0 $0

417 Manual side/rear power shades $230 $250
494 Heated front seats $455 $500
ZPP Premium Package $2,000 $2,200
402 Panoramic Moonroof w ZPP
488 Lumbar support w ZPP
493 Storage package w ZPP
563 Ambient light package w ZPP
LU Nevada Leather w ZPP
609 Navigation system $1,820 $2,000
677 Premium hi-fi system $795 $875
6AK BMW Online w 609
6AM Advanced Real-Time Traffic Information w 609
6AP Remote Services w 609
6NR BMW Apps w 609

Net Total $46,925 $51,075

Del Destination & Handling $895 $895
Gas Gas Guzzler Tax $0 $0
MACO Approximated MACO (Excludes Euro Delivery) $350 $0
TRA Training Service Fee (Excludes Euro Delivery) $180 $0

Offer to Dealer Over Wholesale $1,000

Total Suggested Price (Without Taxes) $49,350 $51,970
Local Taxes $0 $0


Add 417, 494, 609, 677, ZPP to 14XE in order to build
(Color 354, Upholstery LUCX)


Again, big purchase and appreciate advice from folks that have been thru this already.

Is it also a no-brainer to buy the extra 2 year maintenance for $2K? I am thinking yes? It appears to be transferable?

Bob
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:19 AM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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If you can find yourself a good indy mechanic in your area, I would skip the 2 year maintenance and instead get the 2 year warranty if you plan on keeping your X3 for more than 4 years.
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:33 AM
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ponti33609 ponti33609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the Thrill View Post
If you can find yourself a good indy mechanic in your area, I would skip the 2 year maintenance and instead get the 2 year warranty if you plan on keeping your X3 for more than 4 years.
Maybe I misunderstood. I can extend the warranty vs the maintenance? So the maintenance means oil, brakes etc will still be covered? My guess based on current usage (past 7-8 years) is about 8K per year so we will be at about 40-45K when the 4 years is up. Isn't this a time when I will hit things like rotors breaks etc? What does the warranty vs maintenance do for me?

Thx Bob
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:07 AM
ASG ASG is offline
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I agree that buying a last model year X5 will take a bigger hit on depreciation. I looked at X3 & X5 and found the X3 has nicer interior styling and seemed to be a better size. The exception would be the center armrest. I also think the X3 is a lot of fun to drive! My smartphone can read directions through bluetooth into the stereo, which means I probably could have skipped NAV. I love the heated steering wheel. Some options cannot be added after the purchase (in USA, eg. BMW Apps), and some can (premium stereo, although I think base USA stereo sounds great!). I think it's obvious, but take test drives, long ones, and include your wife.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:13 AM
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ponti33609 ponti33609 is offline
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Originally Posted by ASG View Post
I agree that buying a last model year X5 will take a bigger hit on depreciation. I looked at X3 & X5 and found the X3 has nicer interior styling and seemed to be a better size. The exception would be the center armrest. I also think the X3 is a lot of fun to drive! My smartphone can read directions through bluetooth into the stereo, which means I probably could have skipped NAV. I love the heated steering wheel. Some options cannot be added after the purchase (in USA, eg. BMW Apps), and some can (premium stereo, although I think base USA stereo sounds great!). I think it's obvious, but take test drives, long ones, and include your wife.
I will have her bring her phone and cable tomorrow and see how clunky or not it is to use without the Nav. We are not big radio folks either and why I am not sure we want/need that but also realize it is often best to get every possible feature you may want at time of order. Believe it or not we use heated seats in Florida more than one would think but not sure the wheel would get use.

Thx
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:16 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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I like that config a lot. I would also have a hard line at $49,000.

Skip the extended maintenance (the one that includes brakes, wipers, oil changes, etc...) and find a good indy. Possibly purchase the extended warranty but look and price shop that around as you can add that later (within the first 6 months).

Are you a USAA member or have you or any relative served in the military? If so, you will get $1250 off (if financing/buying) the final NEGOTIATED price. So, if you are bargaining for $49,000, you will end up paying $47,750.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:16 AM
ASG ASG is offline
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Florida is freezing -- indoors, that is! I love the heated steering wheel and use it more than the heated seats. Synch the phone over bluetooth, bring but don't use the USB cable. See if it'll meet your needs. I do think this means a smaller display screen, but for $3K, it might be ok.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:17 AM
02420X3 02420X3 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponti33609 View Post

Premium package gets you the garage remote. Looks like that isn;t a separate option? Can my dealer put that in if I opt not to do that? I understand the biggest nut in the Premium is the leather seats.
Probably not. The general and only slightly facetious consensus is that the cheapest way to add an option after the fact, especially an electronic option, is to sell your X3 and buy a new one.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:19 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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I see you have the read shades in the order. Do you think these are needed? The windows are already tinted...
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ASG View Post
Florida is freezing -- indoors, that is! I love the heated steering wheel and use it more than the heated seats. Synch the phone over bluetooth, bring but don't use the USB cable. See if it'll meet your needs. I do think this means a smaller display screen, but for $3K, it might be ok.
Thx for the tip. Will try that out and let her decide. She never liked the car Nav systems and prefers the Phones GPS best.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:46 AM
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ponti33609 ponti33609 is offline
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I see you have the read shades in the order. Do you think these are needed? The windows are already tinted...
I agree that they are prob not needed. Question for you? She was wondering if they can be used with the window down around town? She liked them more the bug prevention than for sun.
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:07 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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I think you can probably use them with the windows down however you get that annoying rapping sound if the front windows are still up?

Plus it's not like a screen and they won't cover the edges of the window completely.
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:51 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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ponti33609, since your option list is so specific, I am pretty sure you need to order the car. We test drove both the X3 28i, 35i and X5 extensively, the X5 was a bit big for our needs, the steering wheel on the X5 is much stiffer at parking lot speed unless you get the active steering option. We prefer the X3's steering much better. The X5 does handle better than the X3 at high speed, but the ride is also stiffer. As far as the I-phone is concerned, you can connect via a cable to the jack in the glove or you can connect wirelessly if you opt for the BMW Assist w/Enhanced Bluetooth and USB option and yes, you can row down the rear window with the rear shades on.
Mileage wise, my wife has a very short commute to work much like your wife's. She has a X3 35i and she is only getting 16 MPG. I would imagine the heavier X5 to be in the 12 to 14 MPG range and the X3 28i to be in the 18 MPG range with the same commute. I would definitely get the rear view camera since the X3 rear window is very small. If you don't want the extra power, the X3 28i is an excellent choice and with the options you want, you are looking at low $40000 after negotiation. Resale value wise, the X3 is about the same as the X5. We also looked at the ML350, the tech was pretty old, and the handling was worse than a Lexus. The steering was way too soft, it did not feel like I was in control sometimes. Good Luck

Last edited by The X Men; 04-17-2013 at 07:54 AM.
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  #22  
Old 04-17-2013, 08:28 AM
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ponti33609 ponti33609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
ponti33609, since your option list is so specific, I am pretty sure you need to order the car. We test drove both the X3 28i, 35i and X5 extensively, the X5 was a bit big for our needs, the steering wheel on the X5 is much stiffer at parking lot speed unless you get the active steering option. We prefer the X3's steering much better. The X5 does handle better than the X3 at high speed, but the ride is also stiffer. As far as the I-phone is concerned, you can connect via a cable to the jack in the glove or you can connect wirelessly if you opt for the BMW Assist w/Enhanced Bluetooth and USB option and yes, you can row down the rear window with the rear shades on.
Mileage wise, my wife has a very short commute to work much like your wife's. She has a X3 35i and she is only getting 16 MPG. I would imagine the heavier X5 to be in the 12 to 14 MPG range and the X3 28i to be in the 18 MPG range with the same commute. I would definitely get the rear view camera since the X3 rear window is very small. If you don't want the extra power, the X3 28i is an excellent choice and with the options you want, you are looking at low $40000 after negotiation. Resale value wise, the X3 is about the same as the X5. We also looked at the ML350, the tech was pretty old, and the handling was worse than a Lexus. The steering was way too soft, it did not feel like I was in control sometimes. Good Luck
Thx X,

See you are from MA. We moved to Tampa via Norwood 8-years ago.

You meant $50K right? Thx for the comments on the ML. What I have been researching too. Everone's comments has helped tons so thx. This will be the first car I have ever purchased in the last 25 years that I didn't do over the phone or internet. I just do not have the knowledge and why I am struggling with attempting to sponge all the info I can and know nearly exactly what I want going in so I am not lead somewhere that I do not want to go with regards to models, options etc.

I am thinking we will order. Most of the dealer's inventory are always way more loaded than we want. Is there anything special I need to consider when ordering? From what I have researched here it seems like lead times are ~ 2 months. My 1978 Honda Civic was 6-months! :>

I can deal with the 16MPG mentally but not less. For the few $$ difference I do not think I would get her the 28I and stick with the 35I.

Can you tell me more about the visability? My car, although it rarely gets used is a Solara convertible. I use to be a good parallel parker. She said the M5 she looked at seemed to have similar visability to what she has in her Honda.
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  #23  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:28 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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Visibility is awesome
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  #24  
Old 04-17-2013, 10:28 AM
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Capobranco Capobranco is online now
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In the past I have urged others to join me in the joy of owning a X3 35i M Sport DHP. However, your needs and desires are different than mine, and today BMW is a Big Tent that accommodates a diverse customer base. A passion for driving unites all of us under the BMW tent. Here's my suggestions;

X5 vs. X3 - I drove X5s many times and came very close to buying an X5 5.0 and X5D. My biggest complaint is that a sense of weight - heaviness - is pervasive. The ride is also much more SUV like as opposed to the almost car like ride of the X3. The X3 is much more lissome and feels more lively.

Resale? - I would lease and not buy - there are many threads that address the issue but I have found over the purchase of 7 BMWs that the old BMW truism holds true - "Lease new - buy used". A lease creates a hard bottom - at the end of the lease you can buy the car at a predetermined price. Sometimes it is possible to exercise your buy option from BMW and turn around and sell it at a profit to Carmax.

Last year X5? - buying last model year doesn't bother me in the least especially if you can find a great deal. Most people do not want to be making new car payments on an "old" car.

2.8 vs 3.5 - if you lease - the price difference is mitigated by the higher residual of the 3.5i. Be that as it may, I would suggest a 2.8 - it will be responsive and lively and give you better economy. The 3.5i is as faster than a Porsche CayenneS - I like it! but does this fit in terms of your desires. The 2.8 is still a lot of fun - I urge you to drive both, than decide.

Mercedes ML? - I assume you are here because you want your new car to have a "fun" factor. The Mercedes ML is a "moms" car. The X3 is youthful and exudes athleticism.

Gas Mileage? - can't speak to 2.8 - but my 3.5i - around 18 -20 city and 24 - 26 Hwy

Nav - you really want it - you will come to appreciate it - moreover, enhances trade in if you are buying your car.

If I were you, I would not order a MY14 - I would lease an X3 2.8i - there are a lot of 2013 2.8s around. Moreover, since the only significant difference between the model years is the up dated Nav - something you are indifferent to - take advantage special year end incentives.

Enjoy your X3!
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Last edited by Capobranco; 04-17-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:33 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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ponti33609,
I am getting close to retirement as well, I might see you down in Florida in 5 years or so
If you have your heart set on the X3 35i, it comes with most of the option you want already, you might be able to find one off the lot or have the dealer locate for you, the premium sound option might be tough to find, but the standard audio system is very good as it is. You can go to http://bmwconfig.com and figure out the invoice price. If you find a 2013 X3 on the lot, I would not pay more than invoice price for it, try to shoot for $500 under invoice, if Itís a 2014, then maybe a $500 to $1000 over invoice. Keep in mind that BMW invoice price is roughly about 8% off the MSRP and add in the MACO, training fee of about $400 if it applies in your region. I punch in a 2014 silver X3 35i on BMWconfig with the premium package, heated seats, driver assist package, enhance Bluetooth and USB and aluminum roof rails and come out with an invoice price of $47000, that should be a good starting point. The X5's visibility is a bit better than the X3 due to the X3's small side window in the cargo area, which create a blind spot of sort on the rear passenger side, but the side mirror is so big on the X3 that if adjusted right, it can cover that blind spot. As far as parallel parking, the top view camera helps a lot.
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