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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:04 AM
erkbiz erkbiz is offline
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BMW, "a reliability nightmare", do you agree?

Hello,

"A reliability nightmare", I read these 3 words in a post and am curious, do other members of this forum agree with this statement?

Even with a 4 year warranty I hate to think I am going to be visiting my dealer over the years to address quality problems with my X3.

ERK
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:16 AM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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Since I am the one who said that, I will clarify that the first four years with the warranty isn't the part to worry about. It's the years after the warranty expires. It is my experience that BMW's are a fantastic vehicle to drive, but are not near as reliable or worry free after four years as many of the other vehicles I have owned. Read the previous generation X3 boards and take a peek for yourself. Most people will say that they would not own a BMW outside of warranty or without the extended warranty unless they have money to blow or are mechanically inclined.
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  #3  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:34 AM
Snowman73 Snowman73 is offline
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Well - I owned a 330d SE which was 4 years old (just) when I bought it with 62k on the clock. I had it for 6 years in total and apart from the brakes/discs and services, I replaces three things on it. 1) Front anti roll bar link (£110 fitted) 2) New fuel pump (£200 fitted) and finally (just before I got my X3) I had to replace the brake pipes which was expensive at £280 fitted.

I sold the car with 154k on the clock and this experience made me buy another BMW.

I might add that I took my car to a specialist BMW garage rather than a main dealer - whose purpose is to charge the most money and get you to replace everything on the car at the very first instance!
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  #4  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:13 AM
ASG ASG is offline
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My 2013 X3 35i has been mechanically problem-free in 4K miles; however, I have had the dealer replace the clear mask 4 times and the tint 3; and both are failing again. Choose your dealer carefully and get options installed by pros, not clowns.
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  #5  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:21 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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My grandfather had a 7 series and kept it for 18 years. It looks showroom new the day we got rid of it. Only problem (while expensive) was the transmission went at 110K. That was a 4K repair.
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  #6  
Old 04-17-2013, 07:58 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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My 2008 Lexus GS350 was in the shop more than my four BMW in total, but my other two Lexus in the pass was super reliable. Its more pot luck than anything else, but overall, I would say japanese cars in general are a bit more reliable than German cars, but that gap is closing fast.
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  #7  
Old 04-17-2013, 08:48 AM
Kaland Kaland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman73 View Post
Well - I owned a 330d SE which was 4 years old (just) when I bought it with 62k on the clock. I had it for 6 years in total and apart from the brakes/discs and services, I replaces three things on it. 1) Front anti roll bar link (£110 fitted) 2) New fuel pump (£200 fitted) and finally (just before I got my X3) I had to replace the brake pipes which was expensive at £280 fitted.

I sold the car with 154k on the clock and this experience made me buy another BMW.

I might add that I took my car to a specialist BMW garage rather than a main dealer - whose purpose is to charge the most money and get you to replace everything on the car at the very first instance!
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Just the same experience i had with my 3 series touring. Had it for 7 years and bought it when it was 5 years old. Had 55K on it when i bought it and 121K when i sold it and only thing i changed was brake disks, one damper and just before i sold it i had to change the rear window.

Have no problem buying another BMW.
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2013, 11:00 AM
Red_X3 Red_X3 is offline
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I've got almost 19,000 on my 2013 X3 and it's been mostly problem free. Only significant issue was a transmission module that failed, but dealer replaced it within one day. My biggest nuisance issue is the damn creaking sunroof...which I'll get fixed on the next scheduled service. Greatest hassle, replacing a cracked windshield - insurance company wanted aftermarket but they are so new could only get OEM which took two weeks after reaching a consensus with the insurance company.
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  #9  
Old 04-17-2013, 11:24 AM
bmw_again bmw_again is offline
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I still have my 2001 325i, now at 155k miles. Still looks and rives well
My experience in warranty has been mixed. I had one serious issue, granted a pretty major one. The engine cooling fan kept failing, something was inherently wrong with the part, the redesign took forever, and they kept putting in the flawed part. I went through six or so I think. Not fun in Texas summer, and it was a brand new car! I did get CPO warranty added at no charge because of this. Other than that I don't remember much else going on in the warranty period.

Of course with mileage and age things start breaking and need attention but it is with every car. Repairs are for sure more expensive than average. For instance I had a clutch and a flywheel replaced at 130k and it was extremely expensive

At this time point my car needs a lot of things and I really need to decide what I want to do ..
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2013, 11:29 AM
cwickberg cwickberg is online now
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Had E61 Wagon Items that failed were 1) water pump, 2) AC compressor, 3) starter, 4) battery, 5) sunroof cassette ( essentially the whole sunroof mechanism) 6)headliner ( due to failed sunroof and subsequent leaks...

All fixed under CPO warranty and all occured after the basic warranty expired.

I will purchase another BMW ( looking at E91 or X1) but will always have some sort of extended warranty...
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:01 PM
Coder Coder is offline
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I think that it's difficult for us to assess vehicle reliability in any meaningful way. It's really easy to erroneously conclude that a vehicle is unreliable based on these forums where the main topic is problems and their resolution.

It's difficult to draw accurate conclusions based on our own individual experiences as well. Our sample size is just too small.

And, I think that it's difficult to gain real data from outfits like Consumer Reports since they base their reliability data on their member reports. This, I believe, can lead to some pretty far out results like their panning of the N55 engine in the X35i. This engine is one of BMW's best and, as near as I can tell, has not experienced an untoward number of problems in its other applications. Perhaps their voters confused the throttle lag issue with an engine problem? The problem with this kind of data is in the lack of detail.

BMWs, like most modern cars, are becoming more complex and, with that, subject to more reliability issues. What's surprising is that, in general, I think modern vehicles are much more reliable than those of yore. Maintenance is certainly less as well.

Is BMW a "maintenance nightmare?" I wouldn't say so. There are vehicles out their which are notorious for a lack of reliability; BWM is not one of those. They are a solid German manufacturer, not a lot different, I would say, from Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, or VW. The Asian manufacturers have certainly made a name for themselves with the general reliability of their vehicles. That attribute is the one most cited by my friends who buy such vehicles. Even though the Toyotas and Hondas of the world have, I think, slipped somewhat in their quality in recent times, I have no problem with the decision to place reliability at the top of the requirments list. I find such vehicles boring and not at all fun to drive so am willing to give up some reliability for better vehicle dynamics. Each to their own.
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:15 PM
ASG ASG is offline
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Prior to BMW, I had three Lexus (Lexuses? Lexi?). First two were quite good. 3rd, an RX330 (made in Japan), really became a pain. Folks said "you can get 250K miles out of the engine if you take care of it." They didn't mention the tranny would have issues at 65K mi (Lexus warranty said it was "by design," so long Lexus with that one), the HVAC would have issues, the steering, the suspension... When I ask BMW service folks, they say they see very few problems with the X3. I really like that BMW stands behind their vehicles and gives service the ability to please the customer (I've recently switched to Murray Motors, Denver and wish I had been there from the start). I also must say that one test drive with a BMW instead of a Lexus and I was sold!
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:26 PM
bmw_again bmw_again is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coder View Post
I think that it's difficult for us to assess vehicle reliability in any meaningful way. It's really easy to erroneously conclude that a vehicle is unreliable based on these forums where the main topic is problems and their resolution.

It's difficult to draw accurate conclusions based on our own individual experiences as well. Our sample size is just too small.

And, I think that it's difficult to gain real data from outfits like Consumer Reports since they base their reliability data on their member reports. This, I believe, can lead to some pretty far out results like their panning of the N55 engine in the X35i. This engine is one of BMW's best and, as near as I can tell, has not experienced an untoward number of problems in its other applications. Perhaps their voters confused the throttle lag issue with an engine problem? The problem with this kind of data is in the lack of detail.

BMWs, like most modern cars, are becoming more complex and, with that, subject to more reliability issues. What's surprising is that, in general, I think modern vehicles are much more reliable than those of yore. Maintenance is certainly less as well.

Is BMW a "maintenance nightmare?" I wouldn't say so. There are vehicles out their which are notorious for a lack of reliability; BWM is not one of those. They are a solid German manufacturer, not a lot different, I would say, from Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, or VW. The Asian manufacturers have certainly made a name for themselves with the general reliability of their vehicles. That attribute is the one most cited by my friends who buy such vehicles. Even though the Toyotas and Hondas of the world have, I think, slipped somewhat in their quality in recent times, I have no problem with the decision to place reliability at the top of the requirments list. I find such vehicles boring and not at all fun to drive so am willing to give up some reliability for better vehicle dynamics. Each to their own.

All of this very true. The complexity does scare me though since I tend to keep cars long time after warranty.
Oh well, no issues so far with our x3, at 1600 miles..
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:52 PM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASG View Post
Prior to BMW, I had three Lexus (Lexuses? Lexi?). First two were quite good. 3rd, an RX330 (made in Japan), really became a pain. Folks said "you can get 250K miles out of the engine if you take care of it." They didn't mention the tranny would have issues at 65K mi (Lexus warranty said it was "by design," so long Lexus with that one), the HVAC would have issues, the steering, the suspension... When I ask BMW service folks, they say they see very few problems with the X3. I really like that BMW stands behind their vehicles and gives service the ability to please the customer (I've recently switched to Murray Motors, Denver and wish I had been there from the start). I also must say that one test drive with a BMW instead of a Lexus and I was sold!
I believe the Lexus RX has been built in Canada since 2003.

Last edited by dudley07726; 04-17-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:59 PM
ASG ASG is offline
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Originally Posted by dudley07726 View Post
I believe the Lexus RX has been built in Canada since 2003.
Hmmm maybe I'm confusing my 2004 RX330 with my 1999 RX300!

Last edited by ASG; 04-17-2013 at 01:02 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2013, 01:05 PM
dudley07726 dudley07726 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_again View Post
All of this very true. The complexity does scare me though since I tend to keep cars long time after warranty.
Oh well, no issues so far with our x3, at 1600 miles..
Same here. I purchase my cars and it is highly possible that I may own them after the warranty period is over. It does concern me. I have a 2012 X3 2.8 with 8200 miles and no problems so far,
I've never had any problems with my 3 Lexus cars 92 ES300, 98 GS 300, or my 2006 SC430 (still own) No problems either with my 1986 Integra, 2003 RAV4 or 2007 CRV. I did have a 2002 325cic that had only 1 problem with a window regulator. But I ended up selling that after the warranty expired in 2006.
I know that even the most reliable car manufacturer can and does experience problems. Maybe I've been "conditioned" to expect my Japanese cars to be reliable and not to expect the Germans to be that way. And believe me, it was on my mind when purchasing the X3.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2013, 01:45 PM
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jman103099 jman103099 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coder View Post
Even though the Toyotas and Hondas of the world have, I think, slipped somewhat in their quality in recent times, I have no problem with the decision to place reliability at the top of the requirments list. I find such vehicles boring and not at all fun to drive so am willing to give up some reliability for better vehicle dynamics. Each to their own.
I would concur.
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:00 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is online now
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Only 5k miles with my X3 and no issues.

TL, MDX and current RL with 115k miles- all Acuras have been bullet proof. Zero issues. Current Honda Accord , Toyota Land Cruiser, Nissan Maxima, Toyota Celica, Nissan 200SX- all were great. No reliability issues and most of the vehicles went over 100k miles before we sold them.

I hope you folks that feel that BMW has addressed its reliability issues are right!
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  #19  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:08 PM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkbiz View Post
Hello,

"A reliability nightmare", I read these 3 words in a post and am curious, do other members of this forum agree with this statement?

Even with a 4 year warranty I hate to think I am going to be visiting my dealer over the years to address quality problems with my X3.

ERK
No.

"Average" would be my estimate. But driving them makes it worth it.
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  #20  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:19 PM
IAS IAS is offline
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i think BMW reliability is better among German car makers, not as good as Japanese luxury cars. my experience has been good with E90 close to 100K miles and E46 78K miles with couple of issues on each car, they are expensive to maintain though. Acura used to be very nicely design cars but lately with their grille design all Acura's look awful and there it ends for me, not worth paying double the price of rebadged Honda with ugly grille.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:31 PM
Hardrada Hardrada is offline
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My personal experience with BMWs, versus, say, Asian cars - I've owned both - can be summarized up in two bullet points:
- a lot of it is luck of the draw. Some BMWs are bullet proof, some are given to lots of small and large problems, and you really can't tell which is which until you hit that 50,000 ish mark
- BMWs, even the good ones in the lucky draw, do tend to start needing expensive repairs on a fairly frequent basis at about 7 / 70,000.

I would never, ever, EVER own a BMW out of warranty/extended warranty. I get the most months and most mileage extended warranty I can possibly buy on the date of purchase of the vehicle, and then I plan and expect to dump it in the days leading up to expiration.

My X5 ran virtually problem-free for 8 years. It only had one repair, a $1,400 transmission visit under warranty. Other than that, just oil changes, rotors, tires, windshield wipers. Then at about the 8 year point, it turned into a vast money pit, running up almost $20,000 in repair bills in the next 1.5 years - fortunately, every penny except a handful of $100 deductibles covered by Fidelity.

In contrast, I had a Toyota Celica that never had a single visit to the shop and I eventually sold it with 120,000 miles.

I think it's only honest to note that there is a price to be paid for the performance-focus of BMW. They simply are not Japanese cars. One who seeks a 100K miles problem free experience is probably better off with a Toyota. That said, an extended warranty makes it someone else's problem, and if you can afford the $4k or whatever for it, there's a lot to be said for driving something that's actually FUN to drive.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2013, 06:01 AM
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jman103099 jman103099 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardrada View Post
My X5 ran virtually problem-free for 8 years. It only had one repair, a $1,400 transmission visit under warranty. Other than that, just oil changes, rotors, tires, windshield wipers. Then at about the 8 year point, it turned into a vast money pit, running up almost $20,000 in repair bills in the next 1.5 years - fortunately, every penny except a handful of $100 deductibles covered by Fidelity.
What were some of the things leading to $20,000 in repair bills? Yikes!
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  #23  
Old 04-18-2013, 06:14 AM
sfiermon sfiermon is offline
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What is Fidelity?
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  #24  
Old 04-18-2013, 07:26 AM
Hardrada Hardrada is offline
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Oy vey, where to even begin in itemizing that $20,000 ... well, one thing to understand is that the ext warranty company is on the hook for some very expensive things even if the actual problem is (or looks) small to you.

For instance, some of the pixels went out on my radio display. They had to replace the entire instrument cluster to fix that. $2,600.

Three of the four window regulators went kaput -- within a six month time period, oddly. That was kinda what I was saying about the age cliff with BMWs -- those window regulators all died right after 8 years, almost as if the whole vehicle was designed to get to the 8 year point.

Starter, transmission and engine repairs all kicked in at the 8 year point and were very expensive - $1,500 here, $2,500 there, $3,200 another time.

You'd be surprised how quickly it can add up to $20,000 on a BMW. I paid about $500 out of pocket for that. The rest was paid by Fidelity. Fidelity is the actual company providing the policies, which are resold by BMW. (It is amazing how cheerful the Fidelity adjusters continued to be in the face of a gruesome onslaught of repairs constituting about 5x the cost of the policy)
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  #25  
Old 04-18-2013, 07:28 AM
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Liverman Liverman is offline
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I had a 2005 X3 (E83) from August 2005 through Feb 2013. Totalled when another driver ran into the back of us. We were unscathed.

Was running well until that point.

We replaced brakes, tires, fuel and other consumables. The dealer did some sort of repairs under warranty in '05 or '06 as a result of TSBs before we experienced symptoms. I cannot recall what they were.

We were in our delare within a week looking at new X3's to replace the one we lost. The new one is now on a truck headed to Colorado

The number and kind of issues that are reported here are not especially different or larger in number than in other car forums, in my opinion. As coder stated, these forums give a skewed sample with regard to frequency. But they are excellent at highlighting what kinds of issues are actually seen.

My decision about the purchase of a second X3 indicates I think the frequency of issues with the X3 is as acceptable a risk as with any vehicle.

The window issue that has been unresolved for a long time that the original poster reported sounds like something that should be escalated to BMW NA
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