Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:53 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,531
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Test Drove '14 Facelift E-Class. Pics side-by-side of Sport & Luxury w/ pre-facelift

Shared this originally as more of a comparison with the pre-facelift W212 of which I had a couple of. Posting it here as well to anyone interested. As for how it compares to the F10: I think it compares pretty much just as the pre-facelift did. They've essentially gotten it closer namely due to "perceived upgrades" rather than fundamental ones (which I'm sure are there, but so slight as to be negligible if it weren't for all the styling stuff to make you "think" new.... probably the very reason for them in fact), but IMO the gap is still wide in enough ways where I really feel like the F10 feels like it's appropriate for a whole higher segment/s from the E-Class. After driving the facelift W212 and seeing where M-B put attention to try and improve it, something I said earlier: "BMW made the car Mercedes has always tried to", seems to resonate all the more:

I'll start off this long review by saying that my original thoughts of the front end were "putrid", "terrible joke". The new fronts actually look pretty nice, so yes it seems better in person than in photos (which some make the new Star-grill front appear very unflattering, not sure how it'll play out to me on the roads, so the jury is still out on that). I still do think that the "Star grill" on the E looks unfit, desperate and awkward when taken into full perspective, but on its own it's definitely got its nice points as well. Another criticism I had was that the car looks disjointed, unbalanced, that it looks like a bunch of random bits tossed together, no harmony, no singular vision, etc. That couldn't be more true, IMO. The car comes off like a mash-up, the new smoother fronts really make the sides appear almost stodgily upright, square, boxy, angular, noticeably "old language" in comparison. I think this has less to do with how the sides are designed, and more to do with what happens when designers piece things together with no intent on harmony and cohesion. The front of the car paints the sides, greenhouse, rear and overall proportions unflatteringly, the execution is almost "clunky". In some ways the design just seems busy and frustrated almost. Like they put bandaids all over it. Something as simple as the rocker panels on the Sport model seem overdesigned, not complimenting the holistic view of the car, nor does moving the chrome strip to the bottom of the doors so it now goes straight (as if they think it'll distract you from the exaggerated wedginess of everything else about the car, realistically it looks like they're *trying* to distract from that, as if they didn't like that they did that in the first place). Don't get me started on the superfluously "tacked-on" (literally) tiny chrome strips running along the bottom of the Luxury models rear bumper sides.

However, if you just look at the fronts next to each other, the new design is really much smoother. From straight-on front angle, I think the pre-facelift is hard to beat. But when rotated is where the W212's original "4 eyes" start to look clumsy, and in the following photos, you can see how much easier on the eyes the new headlights shapes are, when at rotated angles. What I don't like so much is the new Sport front bumper. It's too bubbly, soft, and lacks the aggression and sharpness of the pre-facelift front bumper (though at the same time much smoother flowing). Not to mention, again, not matching at all with the rest of the cars angular design. On the luxury bumper, one thing I liked is the glossy black vents-trim inside of the air-dams, fittingly tasteful for that designation. M-B is also really going balls out with the added chrome detailing on this car to convey a sense of prestige, which IMO is a love or hate, as trends have shifted to where chrome doesn't spell "prestige" to the younger generations as it did to the older. On a Benz, though, chrome is the brands fitting image, so it doesn't bother me and seems to work.... if not teetering the edge of looking desperate to convey that classically prestigious "Mercedes" image.

The rear I think is a downgrade, however not bad nor good enough to make much of a different impression. The taillights are NOT "slimmer" as M-B's marketing said, that's total BS. The new rear looks really boring, IMO, like a "Taxi Cab" look, yet at the same time even more understated and sophisticated than the pre-facelifts rear. The original W212's rear was always the most plain, letdown angle of the car, however I think the taillights design with the white strip along the middle was "sportier" than the new, more humbled look.

The one part of the new car which I think is a massive downgrade from the pre-facelift is the elimination of the "Ponton Fender swoosh". The new straight line just makes absolutely no sense. The whole purpose of that line coming from the rear taillight was to go "around" the whole fender. Now, they straightened it so it has absolutely no place. Completely further superfluous, nonsensical, which to me are things that were once "anti-Mercedes". If someone never saw the pre-facelift before, to understand the origins of such a line, I'd think that they'd think: "Why the hell did the designers run a random line under the big character line? Why does it run parallel to it, and then just end/disappear into nowhereville?". The way it looks gives it a "broken line" look, where the rear line starts lower than where the top line ends. It makes the rear look saggier, and doesn't allow the car to appear as long and slender, nor as muscular or low as if the line was one whole connected piece. It's a compromised "solution" to what they clearly deemed a self-inflicted "problem", which isn't a good situation.

As for interior: Pretty much the same idea as the pre-facelift, and the materials appear to be the exact same. I was hoping for some plusher and more "softened" materials, but the way they cleaned things up in there gives it a slightly richer experience nonetheless (at the cost of somewhat invading on the CLS's turf now, thus eliminating some parts that initially gave that interior some supremacy over the E's). The interior cleanups do what I wish the exterior did, which is refine things and make it appear enhanced, not about-faced. The aluminum bits running alongside the lower console are nice, the new silver bits here and there are either too flashy-gaudy in an "old-timey" way or simply more elegant.... depending on your tastes. The screen I don't like. it's the same size as the original one, however it looks like they tried to make it look like the original iPhone or something. IMO not as well implemented as the pre-facelifts screen. The white contrast stitching to the MB Tex seats ads some needed pizazz and interesting bits. I do wish M-B's paddles weren't so dainty, or all plastic as they feel kind of cheap.

As for drive (drove the Sport Package): I feel it drove identical to the pre-facelift. I didn't notice much difference in steering or chassis composure, as one of the magazine articles claimed. I will say it drove as well as any E I've ever driven, which means it certainly isn't worse. Everything felt dialed in and appropriate for the car. Typically floaty yet solid, luxury tuned drive. I didn't get a chance to experience too many rough patches, as they ruined the drive in my pre-facelift W212's (both of them), as they just got clumsy and very rough and loud over rough patches. However the roads I did experience, it handled them well.

What I didn't like was the brakes. Not sure at this point if they felt different from my W212's, but they didn't feel all that strong nor great.

Performance wise, the engine feels strong and actually sounds nice and throaty when you give it some gas, though I was surprised at just how much engine noise gets let into the cabin in those circumstances (good or bad thing, I guess, depending on how you look at it or who you are). What really hampers this engine is the mid-range I found. It gets going nice, and seems to want to get to higher RPM's, but the "mid range" seems to be the dullest area of the RPM band, where torque seems to diminish. Like it just kind of bogs down around there. I've never been in love with the 7G Tranny, regardless of how many times M-B has had to try and "correct" it, and I feel it's perhaps helping holding the engine back. I drove a CLS550 recently and feel the tranny literally is killing the potential especially that engine has, in terms of squeezing out max efficiency and power/performance. I'll also throw another jab at M-B's "Sport Mode". It's really too minimal of a change for what you'd expect from a "Sport" Mode.

Other General Dislikes: Extremely cheap feeling gear-shift stalk. They took the more elegant piece the original W212's had which was originally from the W221 S-Class, to this new, dull, cheap piece from the new ML, extra long and simply unattractive, which would turn anyone who hates the "steering wheel gear stalk" off from it even more. It looks like something that belongs in a Bus or something. Also having reflector headlights as the base (most common) headlight option on a car that is supposed to be priced and presented as such a premium-segmented choice is simply unacceptable and frankly hideous. It looks like 1980's "technology" either at day and especially at night with how horribly the lighting comes across from it. In a day and age where $15K cars come with at least projector halogens. Oh, and the new "Sport" Steering Wheel is surprisingly thin and dainty, which I noticed when I drove the new CLS, but didn't realize actually IS a different rim from my old version of the "AMG Wheel Package" wheel. Big downgrade from said previous wheel with the flat bottom and much beefier grip. Most people are beefing up their steering wheels, while M-B thinned theirs out. The addition of the two faux-aluminum "borders" they clearly hope distracts people away from a lesser actual steering wheel. Or maybe too many of their customers complained about "too thick" of steering wheels before? It could make sense considering M-B's more Luxury-oriented base.

As for general likes, it coincides with my personal conclusion of the car: Mercedes made the car fundamentally as refined as they could from the W212 chassis and basis. I just wish the whole thing flowed as one harmonious vision and whole, it would have been the perfect E-Class to me. To many, this will no doubt be a catch and should at least temporarily re-ignite whatever it is M-B felt their original design couldn't hold, hence such a drastic and about-face, sudden uncharacteristic change.

As a whole, I prefer the pre-facelift. When looked at in a "parted out" view, the facelift is certainly superior. When looked at as a fundamental device, the facelift is simply the same tool, further refined and honed. I guess my true conclusion is that I'm indifferent/unsure on various changes right now, which makes sense considering how altered and confusing they are to the base/core of this model.

Some pics:

This first one is of an odd gap I noticed in the Luxury grille to hood. The pre-facelfits gaps were much tighter up there:


More:









And here are some SUPER low quality pics of my F10 putting the hurt on an unsuspecting A5 :


__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

Last edited by K-A; 04-22-2013 at 03:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 04-22-2013, 01:24 AM
ChrisF01's Avatar
ChrisF01 ChrisF01 is offline
Gib mir Feurschutz!
Location: SoCal (West LA & IE), Detuschland
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,082
Mein Auto: 2013 750i
Interesting read, drive by there occasionally and always thought that was a weird spot for a dealer, any who...

The back looks VERY bland, the pre-facelift was definitely on the conservative side but it wasn't that vanilla. The front Sport looks good to me. The Luxury(?) or base model (the white one) looks very bland, it appears to be a stripper model, but for what - 50k? that reeks of cheapness.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-22-2013, 01:34 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,531
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Yeah, lol, apparently they are remodeling so the salesman have to go through this totally unnecessarily complex system just to test drive a car (go to a lot literally cluttered with more M-B's than you've ever seen bunched together). I feel bad for them on that.

Yeah, I can't fathom what was going through the designers' minds when they thought "oh, hey, the W212's rear already has been panned as the weakest link of the design, criticized for being too bland and boring.... what should we do to change it? Ah, make it more bland that there's no mistaking its blandness.... then put some extra chrome and detailing around the diffuser area, with cheesy pasted on "air-vents" in the lower sides to try and compensate for that.... perfect!
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:41 AM
mjsbmw's Avatar
mjsbmw mjsbmw is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 225
Mein Auto: 2010 535xi
Thanks for your write-up.

I have both a 12 535 and 12 E350. When I picked up the Benz last May, I was concerned that the new design was going to make the car look very dated. But it is a lease so I was pleased to grab some incredible leases that were out there for both the 5 series and E classes.

The 2014 facelift is just that, although I think the Sports Package looks like a rhinoplasty gone bad. I hope their design juices kick in when they do a total redesign in 2017.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:09 AM
FastMarkA FastMarkA is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,466
Mein Auto: 2011 535xi
I'm looking forward to 2017...that body just doesn't do it for me at all.

I do, however, feel the A5/S5 is still one of the most stunning designs in recent years...that car just looks good from every angle.
__________________

2008 535xi 6-sp - Blk Sph, Blk Dkta,---2011 535xi - Jet Blk, Blk Dkta, Alum----2014 535xi - Jet Blk, Blk Dkta, Alum Hex
Bamboo | Prem | Cold | Sprt Pkg | Nav -Prem | Prem 2 | Cold | Sport | SAT ---- Cold | DA & DA+ | LED | M-Sprt | SAT | Multi
iPod/USB | Sat | Fld Dwn Seats --- ----Fld Dwn Seats | Side/Top Cameras -- ---HK Audio
Htd Rear Seats | PDC | 18" | Logic7 -- ---
(Good riddance!)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:51 AM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,021
Mein Auto: 11 550i
I have always hated those absurd haunches on recent MB models. The hideous haunches were then widely copied by Asian auto manufacturers who have a hard time generating their own original design ideas. I am glad that they finally got rid of them on the refreshed E Class.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:23 AM
mrich1353 mrich1353 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: York, PA
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 267
Mein Auto: 2013 335I x-drive m-sport
It would be interesting to put it side by side with the new Honda Accord...doesn't look much different. The design and sculpture of the F10 will be very difficult to beat
__________________
2013 335I X-Drive - Alpine White / Coral Dakota / M-Sport / PPK / DHP / Sport Auto / Premium / Cold Weather / Tech / Harmon Kardon / Rear-view Camera / Park Assist

Gone 2011 535I X-Drive - Space Grey / Black Dakota / M-Sport / Sport Automatic with Paddles / Premium I / Premium II/ Cold Weather

Gone 2010 535I - Alpine Wht / Blck Dakota - Sprt, Premium, Cold Weather, Sport auto, Anthracite Liner, Nav, Satellite, HD & I-Pod

Gone - 2006 530XI -
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:31 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,717
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Looking at the front of the new E-class and the rear, the refreshed E class has nothing over the last generation, maybe the headlights are better, but thats about it. Overall, I would say its a very weak attempt to refresh the E-class. It almost seem like Mercedes is designing the E-class more toward the styling cue of the C-class when they should be emulating the S-class. Would I pay $60000 for the new E-class? Not a snow ball's chance in hell, the car looks like a cheap Japanese knock off. A teutonic German car it is not.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:20 AM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cricket City
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,686
Mein Auto: E70 & F04
They may actually sell more luxury models based on the way it looks compared to sport.
__________________
2008 Mercedes-Benz CLS550 Iridium Silver/Black Leather -- P2/321/881 (leasetraded 1/10)
2002 BMW 325i --Topaz Blue/Natural Brown Leather --SP/PP/HK/CWP/Bi-xenon (Sold 9/06)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:52 AM
Decboy's Avatar
Decboy Decboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 420
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i
K-A, nice write up and thanks for posting the pics. I didn't know dealers already got the 14'. The MB website still states late April under the build section.

I too was a former W212 owner. I think the luxury line front grill design is much better than the sport line, and your photos definitely confirm that. The star grill on the sedan looks hideous. Disappointed that the interior materials remain the same. That was my major gripe with the W212.
__________________
2013 BMW X5 35i
Alpine White | Cinnamon Brown | M Sport

2013 BMW 550i
Titanium Silver | Black | M Sport
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:10 AM
demas's Avatar
demas demas is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tokyo
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,093
Mein Auto: F10 550i M-Sport
I never was a Merc fan but wow, that is quite bad. Looks like they tried to modernize the 80~90's era designs especially with the tail lights and shape of the grille but could not get the rounded front to flow to the sides in unity.

This is almost as bad as seeing the E65 for the first time. Scrolling down and seeing the F10 is a sight for sore eyes.


Looks like MB finally joined the ranks and designed an 'E60' outcast for the E class
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:41 AM
ScottF10's Avatar
ScottF10 ScottF10 is offline
F10
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 305
Mein Auto: 2013 550i xDrive
Nice review KA, I think it might grow on me eventually, but right now I like the pre facelift more. That black sport doesn't look too bad although the chrome around the diffuser ruins it. Maybe the coupes/cabriolets won't look as bad.
__________________
2013 BMW 550i xDrive M-Sport (Mine)
2013 BMW 528i
2014 BMW 528i xDrive
2012 Mercedes-Benz E350 Cabriolet (Mine)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:45 AM
Decboy's Avatar
Decboy Decboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 420
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by demas View Post
Looks like MB finally joined the ranks and designed an 'E60' outcast for the E class
As a former E60 and W212 owner, I'd still take the E60 (facelift version 08') over this W212 any day. For one, the E60's interior use of materials will blow the MB out of the water.
__________________
2013 BMW X5 35i
Alpine White | Cinnamon Brown | M Sport

2013 BMW 550i
Titanium Silver | Black | M Sport
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:38 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,717
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
At least the E60 had better flow from front to back, the design cue matches all the way around. The refreshed E-Class is more like the new GS350, the front does not flow well with the back. It looks like two different cars when view from front and then the back. If we were to compare the flow of the design, I must say the F10 flows almost perfectly from front to back.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-22-2013, 11:51 AM
ae86pwr ae86pwr is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 415
Mein Auto: 13 ActiveHybrid5
Thanks for the write up.

@K-A: What did you think of the electric steering system?

My current W212 BTC is due next Feburary. Is the new front grill part of the bumper or hood?
I'll take the Sport trim if I can easily swap the front grill back to traditional look.

I wish the powers at Mercedes kept the Ponton fenders.

__________________

Current:
14 smart electric drive
14 MB E350
13 BMW ActiveHybrid5
Past:
85 Corolla GT-S / 98 MB ML320 / 06 S2000 / 08 EVO X MR / 11 G37S 6MT / 12 MBZ E350 Bluetec
BMW CCA Member #457884

Last edited by ae86pwr; 04-22-2013 at 11:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:46 PM
AutoUnion's Avatar
AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New England
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,140
Mein Auto: German
The Sport trim looks so much better, but damn, the luxury model, with those boring wheels, looks TERRIBLE



what were they thinking?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-22-2013, 03:41 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,531
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ae86pwr View Post
Thanks for the write up.

@K-A: What did you think of the electric steering system?

My current W212 BTC is due next Feburary. Is the new front grill part of the bumper or hood?
I'll take the Sport trim if I can easily swap the front grill back to traditional look.

I wish the powers at Mercedes kept the Ponton fenders.

Actually I guess I felt the steering was similar to my pre-facelift W212's. It's fine for a Benz, IMO, but not as weighted or dynamic as the F10's, at least the '13 models. With my F10 I took notice of the steering immediately. In the Benz I just don't pay attention. I guess that's the point, though problem is Mercedes is awkwardly trying to fight that, making it as if they're in an internal fight within themselves, thus both luxury and sportiness aren't the best they can be.

The Pontons I get were a superfluous necessity to add some flavor to an otherwise revealed somewhat stodgy profile. On a beautifully balanced and purposefully gimmick free design like the F10 it would be ludicrous. However I think they should have kept it as well on the E. Their "fix" of it not only sends the message that their original design tastes can't be trusted, but that it now looks like a nonsense line that was never supposed to even be there. And the profile looks pretty boring whilst trying hard without it, as the inherent design and proportions seemed to need something like that.

The grilles are actually totally different in fit and can only fit in their respective bumpers. BTW that Classic is gorgeous!

I agree with most that the luxury grille is a must. The Star grille in context with the car just looks cheesy, gaudy even. IMO Mercedes is trying to speak a different language nowadays and it's no longer as classy. Just no taste when I look at the sport model as a holistic whole. The luxury on the other hand overall looks bland yet still too inharmonious and "pieced together" to be elegant and stately. However the new luxury grille with a slight update of the pre-facelift exterior would have been a winner. The sport makes me think of an unsuspecting older man who got raided with Ed Hardy clothing and blingy jewelry.

As for the interior, yeah it gives an impression of higher perceived quality which is a help, but the materials REALLY needed top be improved and refined to really do the job.

Glad that you guys enjoyed the Review and can break down the nit pickys of a design. That's why I love this place. You guys have in depth taste in design enough to not just say "Ooooohh a Star grille! I want one!"
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

Last edited by K-A; 04-22-2013 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:00 PM
WillInDenver's Avatar
WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
1oz perception-1# obscure
Location: Denver
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,311
Mein Auto: 2013 535i XDrive M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
At least the E60 had better flow from front to back, the design cue matches all the way around. The refreshed E-Class is more like the new GS350, the front does not flow well with the back. It looks like two different cars when view from front and then the back. If we were to compare the flow of the design, I must say the F10 flows almost perfectly from front to back.
The E60 trunk looks awkward viewed precisely from the side; part of the problem being that the taillight design suggests a line extending from the C-pillar down to the rear bumper, with the trunklid appearing as an unnatural attachment to that line. But that is really the only substantial E60 design flow issue, and even it looks a lot better from any angle other than 90 degrees. The F10, indeed, is a nearly perfect design and it looks great from any angle. More so than the F30.

The E-class looks stodgy and blocky, very conservative and not very sexy. I thought MB wanted to move away from that perception a bit; they aren't getting there with this car.
__________________
-Will
2013 535i xDrive M-Sport | 2005 545i Sport (Retired and Missed) | 2001 X5 3.0 Sport (Retired)

Last edited by WillInDenver; 04-22-2013 at 04:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:10 PM
Decboy's Avatar
Decboy Decboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 420
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I agree with most that the luxury grille is a must. The Star grille in context with the car just looks cheesy, gaudy even.
If you look at past MB designs, the star grill has always been reserved for the coupe dating back to the 500SEC and the SL (Then to their SUV line starting with the 96 ML). I think the star grill looked good on the coupes as it created a distinctive design element apart from their sedan counterpart. However, MB deviated from that tradition with the W204 C Sport Sedan. IMO, the luxury W204 Sedan with the traditional grill is what turns my head. With that said, I think MB abused the sport version on the W212 so much that the luxury version is what catches my attention. Sadly, this will be true for the facelift model. At least where I live, I still see a good blend of M Sport vs Non M Sport F10's.

I still have love for MB and hopeful they will get things right again with the next generation of Benzes. This facelift W212 to me shows how MB did some last minute updates as damage control to the original design. For starters, move the gear shifter back to the center console. Do we really need that much room for cup holders?
__________________
2013 BMW X5 35i
Alpine White | Cinnamon Brown | M Sport

2013 BMW 550i
Titanium Silver | Black | M Sport

Last edited by Decboy; 04-22-2013 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:18 PM
Popoemt's Avatar
Popoemt Popoemt is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,235
Mein Auto: 2013 740 Li
Test Drove '14 Facelift E-Class. Pics side-by-side of Sport & Luxury w/ pre-fac

Great write up K-A, detailed and to the point, nice work. I test drive the E350 before I got my Bimmer. I was not impressed, road noise was horrific in it, the sales guy even tried to point out how "quiet" the cabin was... But I couldn't hear him over the noise... No BS, I had to ask him what he said... I would have liked to see some interior pics on the facelifted E? Any chance you have any? V/r, Tim


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

2013 740 Li
2007 G35 (trade-in)
2003 Z06 (Black, 50th Anniversary)
2001 Z06 (Torch Red)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:19 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,531
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popoemt View Post
Great write up K-A, detailed and to the point, nice work. I test drive the E350 before I got my Bimmer. I was not impressed, road noise was horrific in it, the sales guy even tried to point out how "quiet" the cabin was... But I couldn't hear him over the noise... No BS, I had to ask him what he said... I would have liked to see some interior pics on the facelifted E? Any chance you have any? V/r, Tim


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Thank you. Yeah, road noise on the W212, due to the horrible suspension characteristics over anything but smooth, flat roads really was bad in that car. I constantly complained about it when I had my 2 W212's. M-B made the car one part floaty, and another part rough. Too bad they did it the opposite way of what it should have been. It's floaty on turns, and then gets stiff and rough on harsh roads. I'm convinced that after the "ultra cushy" core of the brand started diminishing due to M-B trying to desperately get onto the "Sportiness" bandwagon, they started making suspensions with terrible dynamics. Confused as to what they're supposed to be (Luxury, or Sport?).

No pics of the interiors unfortunately. Forgot to snap those.

About the E60, I'm not a big fan of it but it was incredibly revolutionary, like it or not, and the E facelift to me is the exact opposite of revolutionary. It's "me-too" with a Designers attempt to create something that's as flash-in-the-pan trendy as possible written all over it. The E60 looked over-designed in many ways to me, but it was effortlessly over-designed, if that makes sense, i.e why it became so copied. It didn't DO the copying. However, I do understand the concept of the W212 now, due to this about-face facelift becoming kind of the E65 or E60 of the Benz lineage, which is unfortunate as I did enjoy my W212's.... though my eyes really opened once I experienced the F10.

DecBoy: Totally agreed. M-B ruined the essence of the "Sports Grille" when they let the marketing team pretty much designate and whore it out to the entire model line. It used to be nice and interesting to see variation of the Sport Grille Coupes and Luxury Grille Sedans. Totally agreed about dilution of the M-B "Sport" look. They give it away for free so it's become the standard, "same", typical M-B look. In one swift motion, MBUSA eliminated the "cool" and aggressive effect of their "Sports" look. Variation is NECESSARY for PREMIUM manufacturers! It's what separates them from Fleet-Car mass models. You should be able to spec them how you want, individualize them, PAY UP for Sports Models for the sake of enthusiast-driven exclusivity-factor. M-B's strategy to just make all their cars look the same for the quick-buck sale turned me off.

BMW still keeps things much more diverse, interesting and enthusiast-fed with the variations they offer, namely by still UP CHARGING for the M Sport Package so we don't all have the exact same cars, especially with those who don't care nor even notice the differences of said Packages. It was even better before when they had the Regular, then Sport, and THEN M Sport Packages.
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:42 PM
alewifebp's Avatar
alewifebp alewifebp is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northern NJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 907
Mein Auto: 2014 550i
I've been totally turned off by the W212 design, and this mid cycle facelift does little to change my mind. The new sport grille is really unnecessary and makes it look too generic. The entire design is too generic. And the interior quality was never up to par with what should be in an MB. My W211 was a much more classic design that looked and felt like a luxury car. Just because they put chrome accents everywhere, which MB loves to do, does not make it a better car.

And while BMW is certainly guilty of whoring out the M sport stuff, MB is many times worse with the no-cost sport package that they have offered with the W212.
__________________
ED on 7/18/2014: 2014 550i, Space Gray, Mocha. M Sport, Cold Weather, DAP, Executive, Lighting
PCD on 9/6/2011: 2011 550i, DSB, black/oyster. Prem 2, Conv, Ventilated, HUD, Sport, DHP, SAT
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:04 PM
Stavrs Stavrs is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: TN, US
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 171
Mein Auto: 2013 MB CLS550
Test Drove '14 Facelift E-Class. Pics side-by-side of Sport & Luxury w/ pre-fac

Fun thread especially because of many ex MB owners. One thing to remember, many loyal BMW people are leaving the brand because of what they have are now compared to what they used to be.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2014 Lexus GS350 - F Sport Gray/Black, HUD, Mark Levinson, Navigation, Park Assist, Dynamic Handling, Blind Spot Monitor, Power Trunk and more...
2014 528i - Black Sapphire/Ivory White Nappa/Dark Wood, Luxury Line, Driver Assistance & Premium Packages, Heated Front Seats.

Past:
2013 MB CLS550
2011 E92 335ix
2012 F10 550i
2009 E92 M3
2008 E92 M3
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:13 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,531
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewifebp View Post
I've been totally turned off by the W212 design, and this mid cycle facelift does little to change my mind. The new sport grille is really unnecessary and makes it look too generic. The entire design is too generic. And the interior quality was never up to par with what should be in an MB. My W211 was a much more classic design that looked and felt like a luxury car. Just because they put chrome accents everywhere, which MB loves to do, does not make it a better car.

And while BMW is certainly guilty of whoring out the M sport stuff, MB is many times worse with the no-cost sport package that they have offered with the W212.
Exactly. The "M" still carries some level of exclusivity. M-B's "AMG Sport" look is literally the 99.99% generic look of the brand, and they literally don't charge a penny for it. Hate that.

The W211 is still one of my favorite cars. I always felt the F10 was more of the spiritual successor of that timeless, understated classic, while the W212 was M-B trying to emulate the fussy shock value of the E60.
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:21 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York, NY
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,387
Mein Auto: 2011 750LXi Individual
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavrs View Post
many loyal BMW people are leaving the brand because of what they have are now compared to what they used to be.
Yup, and many one-time owners [being burned and created] at that as well (design and material aside)... :|

Last edited by dbs600; 04-22-2013 at 09:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms