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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 04-22-2013, 03:57 PM
PAX5 PAX5 is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Pennsylvania
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Mein Auto: X5 50i
Are TPMS Valve Service Kits really necessary?

Are TPMS Valve Service Kits really necessary?

My first flat in at least 10+ years ... A lot has changed in the world of tire repair!

Went to my local Firestone Service Center for repair.

Here is a breakdown of the charges:

Flat Repair Balance Labor $4.01 Flat Repair Labor $11.00 TPMS Valve Service Kit (valve core and o-ring only, not sensor), Labor $2.99, TPMS Kit $7.00, Wheel Balance Parts $2.99 Flat Repair - Patch Plug (patched from the inside) $1.99 High Speed balance included. Sales Tax $2.40 = Total Cost of $32.38

The Total Cost was more than I expected & the need to replace TPMS parts with a kit was a total surprise. They wouldn't repair the flat otherwise. Also said that the Hunter tire equipment will knock off the wheel weights, so they just remove all and redo ...

According to Firestone's website, "the valve service kit, which includes the valve core, cap, nut, and o-ring (seal), must always be replaced when a tire is dismounted for service or replacement".

What do you guys think?

TPMS kit brand is by John Dow Industries. They teamed up with Dynamic (http://www.johndow.com/) as the supplier.
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:55 PM
ard ard is offline
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Location: CA
 
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Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Scam IMO.

They do NOT need to replace this for flat repair.

Tire stores are so hammered by online tire sales, that ANY tactic (Nitrogen, TPMS kits, etc) than can eek out a few more dollars is gladly supported by the sales staff.

I usually have them patch it and that's it- in my experience the patch will not affect the balance.
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2013, 05:49 PM
PAX5 PAX5 is online now
Freude am Fahren
Location: Pennsylvania
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Scam IMO. They do NOT need to replace this for flat repair.
My initial reaction as well ... so when I questioned it, this is how they explained it:
- tire removal equipment may nick or otherwise damage the TPMS valve stem and/or sensor. Since the sensor is the most expensive part in the assembly (easily $100+), they hedge their bets and remove/drop the TPMS valve stem and sensor assembly before they dismount the tire from the rim
- the "sealing ring" is a one time use only (crushable), so once removed, it must be replaced

Hey, at least they presented me with an educated and thoughtful reply. That's more than I can say about some of the dealership I've frequented.

Balancing is definitely a scam.
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  #4  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:30 PM
ard ard is offline
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it's like saying "Our Oil Service includes the cost to repaint the door, since we may ding the door when we have it in the shop"

Like I said, they spend quite some time rationalizing these add ons to bolster their bottom line. Why does "removal" risk nicking it, yet 'installation' of the tire can be done with no risk of nicking this new assembly???? Absolutely the same process.

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  #5  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:56 PM
jenhao jenhao is offline
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Location: Torrance, CA
 
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Mein Auto: 2011 E90 335i
I just fixed a flat at America Tire Co., they not only fixed the flat for free, they also didn't say a word about TPMS.
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  #6  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:19 PM
DCC DCC is offline
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Location: Texas
 
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OP, the store did not upsell you from what you described.

1) if they released the valvestem collar to 'drop' the sensor before dismounting the tire, then the valvestem service kit is needed, this is because the valvestem collar is a one time use application (see #6)
http://www.tpmsdirect.com/Adjustable...ines_a/647.htm

2) it is virtually impossible to guarantee the balance of the wheel and tire assembly after a dismount and remount, even if they mark the original position of the tire in relation to the wheel. Having it rebalanced is the right thing to do.
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  #7  
Old 04-24-2013, 09:24 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCC View Post
OP, the store did not upsell you from what you described.

1) if they released the valvestem collar to 'drop' the sensor before dismounting the tire, then the valvestem service kit is needed, this is because the valvestem collar is a one time use application (see #6)
http://www.tpmsdirect.com/Adjustable...ines_a/647.htm

2) it is virtually impossible to guarantee the balance of the wheel and tire assembly after a dismount and remount, even if they mark the original position of the tire in relation to the wheel. Having it rebalanced is the right thing to do.
1. Why did they NEED to 'drop the valvestem collar'? You do not need to remove the sensor to fix a flat.

2. Checking a balance is different than stripping the weights off the wheel and rebalancing.. Oh, did they lie when they said the Hunter equipment will "knock off" the weights?

When I get a hunter roadforce on one of my cars, they often times need to 'match' the tire to the rim by dismounting and rotating the tire...since "they" (the valve manufacturers and their lobbying group) recommend a new TMPS "every time you remove a tire from the rim" does that mean a new TMPS each time they break the bead to move the tire??????????? I mean thats the rule, right?
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  #8  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:15 AM
DCC DCC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
1. Why did they NEED to 'drop the valvestem collar'? You do not need to remove the sensor to fix a flat.

2. Checking a balance is different than stripping the weights off the wheel and rebalancing.. Oh, did they lie when they said the Hunter equipment will "knock off" the weights?

When I get a hunter roadforce on one of my cars, they often times need to 'match' the tire to the rim by dismounting and rotating the tire...since "they" (the valve manufacturers and their lobbying group) recommend a new TMPS "every time you remove a tire from the rim" does that mean a new TMPS each time they break the bead to move the tire??????????? I mean thats the rule, right?
You are right, there is no need to 'drop' the sensor when dismounting and remounting a tire. But obviously the shop he went to did that, so in that sense, they did the right thing by servicing the valve stem.
No if you break the bead and 'rotate' the tire and re-inflate, you dont need a valve stem service, its because they loosen/removed the locking collar that is when you need a service.
I am not sure if the Hunter Roadforce machine tells you how to 'match' the tire to the wheel but rather you have yourself a excellent shop who does that to obtain the best balance with minimal balancing weights. Most tire shops (even with the Roadforce machine) wiill just slap on weights to compensate as shown by the balancing machine (roadforce method or not).
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:52 AM
Brian425 Brian425 is offline
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I have mixed feelings on this.

-Stripping weights and rebalancing - scam. They can check the balance after re-mounting the wheel. If a small bit of weight is needed, I would say add weight. If it is way out, I would say strip all weights and re-balance.

-TPMS rebuild kit - They should have discussed it with you first. I could see the O ring as a potential failure point after being in the rim for a few years.

I think they nickled and dimed you to make an extra $10 or $15 dollars. They could have easily sold you all that and made you feel that they were looking out for you.

"While we are in there, we like to install the TPMS rebuild kit. They O rings occasionally fail due to age and cause a slow leak. It's just better to get it done while the tire is off. I don't want to see you get stuck. It's only $10. About the balance, we always recommend a fresh balance. It's just the right way to do it."

He just upsold you and made you feel that he is looking out for you.
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  #10  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:49 AM
DCC DCC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian425 View Post
I have mixed feelings on this.

-Stripping weights and rebalancing - scam. They can check the balance after re-mounting the wheel. If a small bit of weight is needed, I would say add weight. If it is way out, I would say strip all weights and re-balance.
Brian,
Time is money my friend...
I don't think there are many shops out there that will leave the original weights on, mark the position of the tire before dismount, re-mount it back to the exact position and then check the balance before adding small weights and/or stripping off all the weights and then doing a fresh balance.
Its just less time to strip off the weights and do a balance after the re-mount.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:35 PM
Brian425 Brian425 is offline
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Location: New York City
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCC View Post
Brian,
Time is money my friend...
I don't think there are many shops out there that will leave the original weights on, mark the position of the tire before dismount, re-mount it back to the exact position and then check the balance before adding small weights and/or stripping off all the weights and then doing a fresh balance.
Its just less time to strip off the weights and do a balance after the re-mount.
I agree that time is money. For me, I always fully rebalance anytime the tire is off the rim. For the work truck and the tow rig, we usually just put it on the balance machine. As long as it does not need alot of wieght, we just add more. Most times, it only needs a little weight.

(By the way, I was not the person who mentioned marking tires, etc.)

I have a good relationship with my tire guy. He tell me the truth. I try not to buy all my tires on tirerack. I get a little special treatment, he gets a loyal customer.
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