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  #101  
Old 04-26-2013, 11:53 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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335i vs. M3 it is self- evident that many posters on this forum are just mouthing old hearsay truisms without having the benefit of actual seat time.

I drove a 335iMT for over 35K miles and have driven my M3 ZCP DCT for almost 20K miles. My 335i was fast, fun, and engaging but in no way does it match the thrilling experience of my M3. Yes, the M3 is fast 0-60 in 4.1 seconds, but more significantly it's the near instantaneous engine response that can be fine-tuned from "right now" to "crazy". For those who say the M3 lacks low end torque methinks, you have very limited, if any, seat time in an M3, or alternatively, you do not know how to properly drive an M3.

To those who question the M3's ability to perform as a daily driver, and its capacity to be appreciated on public roads I say nope the M3 is exceedingly easy to drive at low speeds and is far better riding than a 335i since it's not shod in nasty run-flats. In terms of spirited back road runs it's no contest. The M3 offers a communicative feast the car feels as if it is hard wired into your synapses endowed with steering from the gods, a finely tuned variable suspension and of course the s65 - to think it, is to do it .

The 335i is nice, but the M3 is qualitatively in a different class. I considered my $60K 335i to be rather expensive, but I regard my $75K M3 to be a steal. Indeed, before I bought my M3 I thought I was going to return to the ranks of Porsche. I was sure I might be purchasing one of the last 997 Carreras. When I test drove a 911 Carrera PDK back to back with an M3 it was no contest. The M3 was not only more functional but the better sports car independent of price.

The E92 M3 is magical and destined to be regarded as one of the finest enthusiast's cars BMW has ever built. BTW I go for days without ever turning on my stereo I prefer sublime M3 music vroommm!
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Last edited by Capobranco; 04-27-2013 at 05:14 AM.
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  #102  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:16 AM
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deznium deznium is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
335i vs. M3 it is self- evident that many posters on this forum are just mouthing old hearsay truisms without having the benefit of actual seat time.

I drove a 335iMT for over 35K miles and have driven my M3 ZCP DCT for almost 20K miles. My 335i was fast, fun, and engaging but in no way does it match the thrilling experience of my M3. Yes, the M3 is fast 0-60 in 4.1 seconds, but more significantly it's the near instantaneous engine response that can be fine-tuned from "right now" to "crazy". For those who say the M3 lacks low end torque methinks, you have very limited, if any, seat time in an M3, or alternatively, you do not know how to properly drive an M3.

To those who question the M3's ability to perform as a daily driver, and its capacity to be appreciated on public roads I say nope the M3 is exceedingly easy to drive at low speeds and is far better riding than a 335i since it's not shod in nasty run-flats. In terms of spirited back road runs it's no contest. The M3 offers a communicative feast the car feels as if it is hard wired into your synapses endowed with steering from the gods, a finely tuned variable suspension and of course the N65 - to think it is to do it .

The 335i is nice, but the M3 is qualitatively in a different class. I considered my $60K 335i to be rather expensive, but I regard my $75K M3 to be a steal. Indeed, before I bought my M3 I thought I was going to return to the ranks of Porsche. I was sure I might be purchasing one of the last 997 Carreras. When I test drove a 911 Carrera PDK back to back with an M3 it was no contest. The M3 was not only more functional but the better sports car independent of price.

The E92 M3 is magical and destined to be regarded as one of the finest enthusiast's cars BMW has ever built. BTW I go for days without ever turning on my stereo I prefer sublime M3 music vroommm!
Glad to hear that you are enjoying your M3. I've heard the same that M3 is a very practical sports car.. Whereas the Porches are good if you spend a lot of time at the track and is less forgiving for daily driving... Heard the Cayman suspension is pretty stiff as well...

I might consider the M4 on my next purchase....
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Last edited by deznium; 04-27-2013 at 12:21 AM.
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  #103  
Old 04-27-2013, 05:18 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
335i vs. M3 it is self- evident that many posters on this forum are just mouthing old hearsay truisms without having the benefit of actual seat time...
Test. Something is wrong with this app.

Anyhow, which 997 did you drive? A base with no performance additions may explain it. But still I rarely hear people say there is no contest between an M3 and a 911.

Both need to be driven correctly to appreciate them, if 0-60 is your thing, the new 991 with sport plus does it in 4.2s, but neither is practical as a DD.

On the other hand, a turbo like the 335 needs no effort to feel the thrill, can't deny such quality, even though I am an N/A person myself.

Last edited by dtc100; 04-27-2013 at 05:26 AM.
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  #104  
Old 04-27-2013, 06:00 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
335i vs. M3 it is self- evident that many posters on this forum are just mouthing old hearsay truisms without having the benefit of actual seat time.

I drove a 335iMT for over 35K miles and have driven my M3 ZCP DCT for almost 20K miles. My 335i was fast, fun, and engaging but in no way does it match the thrilling experience of my M3. Yes, the M3 is fast 0-60 in 4.1 seconds, but more significantly it's the near instantaneous engine response that can be fine-tuned from "right now" to "crazy". For those who say the M3 lacks low end torque methinks, you have very limited, if any, seat time in an M3, or alternatively, you do not know how to properly drive an M3.

To those who question the M3's ability to perform as a daily driver, and its capacity to be appreciated on public roads I say nope the M3 is exceedingly easy to drive at low speeds and is far better riding than a 335i since it's not shod in nasty run-flats. In terms of spirited back road runs it's no contest. The M3 offers a communicative feast the car feels as if it is hard wired into your synapses endowed with steering from the gods, a finely tuned variable suspension and of course the s65 - to think it, is to do it .

The 335i is nice, but the M3 is qualitatively in a different class. I considered my $60K 335i to be rather expensive, but I regard my $75K M3 to be a steal. Indeed, before I bought my M3 I thought I was going to return to the ranks of Porsche. I was sure I might be purchasing one of the last 997 Carreras. When I test drove a 911 Carrera PDK back to back with an M3 it was no contest. The M3 was not only more functional but the better sports car independent of price.

The E92 M3 is magical and destined to be regarded as one of the finest enthusiast's cars BMW has ever built. BTW I go for days without ever turning on my stereo I prefer sublime M3 music vroommm!
I owned an '09 M3 vert with DCT and we currently own a 2011 M3 sedan with MT. Great cars but really not up to snuff as compared with my 997 Carrera GTS. I'm not sure where you did your test drive, but it did not equate to enough seat time to appreciate the differences in the cars.

My son had his M3 for over a year when he took my Porsche out for an extended ride on a few of our back road fun drives. He came back still loving his M3, but admitted that the Porsche had like zero body roll and hugged the corners sharper, the steering had tremendous feedback and was extremely responsive, it has a shorter shifter than the M3, the brakes had more bite, and the engine seemed to love high revs even more than the M3. He also liked the interior quality more.

But, my Porsche should have a higher performance level and fit and finish as compared to the M3 because it costs a lot more!
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Last edited by beden1; 04-27-2013 at 08:54 AM.
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  #105  
Old 04-27-2013, 06:03 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deznium View Post
Glad to hear that you are enjoying your M3. I've heard the same that M3 is a very practical sports car.. Whereas the Porches are good if you spend a lot of time at the track and is less forgiving for daily driving... Heard the Cayman suspension is pretty stiff as well...

I might consider the M4 on my next purchase....
Your description of the Porsche sounds like their GT3 model.
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  #106  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:06 AM
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Db750 Db750 is offline
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Re: Most overrated cars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
335i vs. M3 it is self- evident that many posters on this forum are just mouthing old hearsay truisms without having the benefit of actual seat time.

I drove a 335iMT for over 35K miles and have driven my M3 ZCP DCT for almost 20K miles. My 335i was fast, fun, and engaging but in no way does it match the thrilling experience of my M3. Yes, the M3 is fast 0-60 in 4.1 seconds, but more significantly it's the near instantaneous engine response that can be fine-tuned from "right now" to "crazy". For those who say the M3 lacks low end torque methinks, you have very limited, if any, seat time in an M3, or alternatively, you do not know how to properly drive an M3.

To those who question the M3's ability to perform as a daily driver, and its capacity to be appreciated on public roads I say nope the M3 is exceedingly easy to drive at low speeds and is far better riding than a 335i since it's not shod in nasty run-flats. In terms of spirited back road runs it's no contest. The M3 offers a communicative feast the car feels as if it is hard wired into your synapses endowed with steering from the gods, a finely tuned variable suspension and of course the s65 - to think it, is to do it .

The 335i is nice, but the M3 is qualitatively in a different class. I considered my $60K 335i to be rather expensive, but I regard my $75K M3 to be a steal. Indeed, before I bought my M3 I thought I was going to return to the ranks of Porsche. I was sure I might be purchasing one of the last 997 Carreras. When I test drove a 911 Carrera PDK back to back with an M3 it was no contest. The M3 was not only more functional but the better sports car independent of price.

The E92 M3 is magical and destined to be regarded as one of the finest enthusiast's cars BMW has ever built. BTW I go for days without ever turning on my stereo I prefer sublime M3 music vroommm!
Fantastic post

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  #107  
Old 04-27-2013, 11:15 AM
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408Racer 408Racer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
...If you find one M3 owner that thinks it's an overrated car I'll be surprised.
I'm a bit hungover and my mind is a bit hazy but it would actually be more of an upset if a current owner would speak badly of his ride....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
335i vs. M3 it is self- evident that many posters on this forum are just mouthing old hearsay truisms without having the benefit of actual seat time...
....For those who say the M3 lacks low end torque methinks, you have very limited, if any, seat time in an M3, or alternatively, you do not know how to properly drive an M3.
First of all, it is awesome to see someone express his love for his car so eloquently. Your passion for your M3 is quite evident.

However, on the flip side of the coin: as easily as the groupthink will dismiss people who "diss" the M3 as not having enough seat time or not knowing how to drive it, those who sing nothing but praises for the car can also be classified as hard core Kool-Aid drinkers hopelessly enchanted by ///Marketing.

Owning an M3 does not equate to unbiased opinion/expertise. It would be just as interesting to hear from those who are former owners and/or those who decided to go with something else...even a 335 (only to be met by "all 335 drivers really want an M3 but can't afford one" ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
....On the other hand, a turbo like the 335 needs no effort to feel the thrill, can't deny such quality, even though I am an N/A person myself.
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  #108  
Old 04-27-2013, 11:45 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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"it would actually be more of an upset if a current owner would speak badly of his ride..."
Not really, I found that there is a fair share of both "my car is always the best" and more objective views expressed by owners here so neither should be an upset or surprise. Personally I made it pretty clear how dissapointed I was in many aspects of my F10 from the get go. The M3 on the other hand I have nothing bad to say about, it just fits my preferences like a glove but I grew up in Europe where we where not spoilt with large torquey V8s so I'm used and conditioned to that sporty cars are high revving cars that builds power towards the redline and that's how I prefer it. That said the N54 and N55 are very good turbo engines and I do like them alot ( I also had an E60 with the N54 ) but the S65 is just in another league. How many V8s that revs to 8500 rpms can be had in a car under $100k? It's a pretty exclusive club this little gem is part of.
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  #109  
Old 04-27-2013, 11:53 AM
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Db750 Db750 is offline
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Re: Most overrated cars...

There are plenty of testimonials on M3post of 335 owners who have upgraded to the M3. Never read one who wasn't more than happy.

Its really not even worth arguing about. The M cars are in a completly different league. I'm not talking about a step up; I'm talking a completly different universe. The 335 is no doubt a fun car, but the s65/s85 is exhilarating.

It really is that simple.

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  #110  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:21 PM
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408Racer 408Racer is offline
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Originally Posted by Db750 View Post
....Its really not even worth arguing about. The M cars are in a completly different league. I'm not talking about a step up; I'm talking a completly different universe. The 335 is no doubt a fun car, but the s65/s85 is exhilarating.

It really is that simple.

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That's not even the argument. My point is the M3 isn't as almighty as it is made out to be. It's not the only game in town...

The V8 in the C63 only revs to something like "only" 7K RPM and isn't bespoke to one model but it is a hell of a lot more impressive in everyday applications. Protestations of "but my motor spins to 8,000 and isn't found on SUVs" is drowned out by the much meaner sounding exhaust.

Somehow, the M3 defenders always turns it into a "the 335 is not in the same league" which is true but is not the argument. That's not enough to explain away that in other ways, suited to other's preferences, the 335 and others are more fun and better than the M3*.

Kinda funny how ///M would want people to think that non-///M is not quite as ultimate. It's ///My way or the highway.

*Note also that E46 M3 did not have the same perceived threat from ZHP.
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  #111  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:26 PM
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Db750 Db750 is offline
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Re: Most overrated cars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
That's not even the argument. My point is the M3 isn't as almighty as it is made out to be. It's not the only game in town...

The V8 in the C63 only revs to something like "only" 7K RPM and isn't bespoke to one model but it is a hell of a lot more impressive in everyday applications. Protestations of "but my motor spins to 8,000 and isn't found on SUVs" is drowned out by the much meaner sounding exhaust.

Somehow, the M3 defenders always turns it into a "the 335 is not in the same league" which is true but is not the argument. That's not enough to explain away that in other ways, suited to other's preferences, the 335 and others are more fun and better than the M3*.

Kinda funny how ///M would want people to think that non-///M is not quite as ultimate. It's ///My way or the highway.

*Note also that E46 M3 did not have the same perceived threat from ZHP.
It's not about being ultimate or almighty; it's about the unique driving experience.

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  #112  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:44 PM
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It's not about being ultimate or almighty; it's about the unique driving experience.

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One man's "unique" is another man's "VTEC Yo!"

I guess there wouldn't be any discussion if they put the C63 engine (which is lighter than S65 despite being bigger) in the E90 M3.........says the guy who is leasing his F30 328i.
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  #113  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
That's not even the argument. My point is the M3 isn't as almighty as it is made out to be. It's not the only game in town...

The V8 in the C63 only revs to something like "only" 7K RPM and isn't bespoke to one model but it is a hell of a lot more impressive in everyday applications. Protestations of "but my motor spins to 8,000 and isn't found on SUVs" is drowned out by the much meaner sounding exhaust.

Somehow, the M3 defenders always turns it into a "the 335 is not in the same league" which is true but is not the argument. That's not enough to explain away that in other ways, suited to other's preferences, the 335 and others are more fun and better than the M3*.

Kinda funny how ///M would want people to think that non-///M is not quite as ultimate. It's ///My way or the highway.

*Note also that E46 M3 did not have the same perceived threat from ZHP.
Yeah I don't get it. Before I owned my '06 M3 I used to be enamored with them. And compared to my E46 325i there was a big gap in power and smaller gap in handling. But as a DD the 335i is more fun to drive, can be pushed in the twisties and doen't feel every paint line, crack and pebble in the road. I decided the 335i would be the perfect replacement.

Oh and the venerable ///M S54 VANOS blew up at just over 41k miles. All prescribed maintenance, interim oil changes and no abuse. At least BMWNA took care it.
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  #114  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:56 PM
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Db750 Db750 is offline
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Re: Most overrated cars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB View Post
Yeah I don't get it. Before I owned my '06 M3 I used to be enamored with them. And compared to my E46 325i there was a big gap in power and smaller gap in handling. But as a DD the 335i is more fun to drive, can be pushed in the twisties and doen't feel every paint line, crack and pebble in the road. I decided the 335i would be the perfect replacement.

Oh and the venerable ///M S54 VANOS blew up at just over 41k miles. All prescribed maintenance, interim oil changes and no abuse. At least BMWNA took care it.
The e90 m3 has an adjustable suspension.

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  #115  
Old 04-27-2013, 03:43 PM
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*Note also that E46 M3 did not have the same perceived threat from ZHP.
Except the ZHP had better exhaust sound and better steering rack (which the Competition Package borrowed).
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  #116  
Old 04-27-2013, 06:35 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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For you that never driven the M3, find a used one and take it for a test drive. Let it warm up and then run it all the way to redline in the first three gears. Then tell us that this car is overrated... Chances are that you'll take it home then and there or start thinking of which organ to sell to buy one. It's really that special and that is just scratching the surface of what makes this one of the all time great cars.
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  #117  
Old 04-27-2013, 07:17 PM
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For you that never driven the M3, find a used one and take it for a test drive. Let it warm up and then run it all the way to redline in the first three gears. Then tell us that this car is overrated... Chances are that you'll take it home then and there or start thinking of which organ to sell to buy one. It's really that special and that is just scratching the surface of what makes this one of the all time great cars.
Bull****.
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  #118  
Old 04-27-2013, 07:24 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Bull****.
It's not a car for everyone's taste I'm just recommending that people try it out and not rely on specifications when judging this car since for the right person the difference is much more than 100 extra horses. After 30k miles or so in this car it's pretty much impossible to overrate it. It's that good for my preferences, if that is bs for your preferences that's cool, we are not all alike.

Last edited by solstice; 04-27-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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  #119  
Old 04-27-2013, 07:45 PM
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Db750 Db750 is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
For you that never driven the M3, find a used one and take it for a test drive. Let it warm up and then run it all the way to redline in the first three gears. Then tell us that this car is overrated... Chances are that you'll take it home then and there or start thinking of which organ to sell to buy one. It's really that special and that is just scratching the surface of what makes this one of the all time great cars.
I'm thinking we have quite a few of them in this thread.

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I have never driven the e9x M3.
Fixed it for ya.
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  #120  
Old 04-28-2013, 02:37 PM
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408Racer 408Racer is offline
Life in da fast lane!
Location: Santana Row
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: F30 328i Sport 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB View Post
Bull****.
Agreed. Some of them should work for ///Marketing writing brochures (if they aren't already).

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It's not a car for everyone's taste...
Bingo...and that pretty much sums it up.

The M3 is good, but not all that...not everyone who gets behind the wheel of one will succumb to its siren song...even former owners who decided to move on.....

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785032

Last edited by 408Racer; 04-28-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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  #121  
Old 04-28-2013, 05:32 PM
solstice solstice is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,318
Mein Auto: 2011 E90 M3
IMO both the E9X 335 and the M3 both easily live up to the hype and none is overrated. And congrats to the TQ crowd since your preference will be the only one available very soon, maybe for all eternity. Either in FI engines or electric engines. The engines like the M3s are likely gone forever outside exotics and a few sports cars like the 911. I will surely miss them, luckily though I'm not in the group that dislike FI engines I just prefer the NA when there is a choice.
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  #122  
Old 04-28-2013, 07:38 PM
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Chris90 Chris90 is offline
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Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 13,796
Mein Auto: '04 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
The M3 is good, but not all that...not everyone who gets behind the wheel of one will succumb to its siren song...even former owners who decided to move on.....

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785032
I read a page or two, yeah, guys who own Carrera GTs, Z06s and GT-Rs are complaining about the M3's lack of torque. Everyone else in the thread seems to love it.
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  #123  
Old 05-02-2013, 01:12 PM
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TacticalBassist TacticalBassist is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Jacksonville, FL
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 396
Mein Auto: 2003 BMW 530i
Most overrated car ever: New Camaro. I used to love that car, but after driving both the V6 and 2SS package, and seeing them ALL OVER THE PLACE, I can honestly say that car is overrated. I'd rather have a Mustang.
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2003 BMW 530i|Alpine White III/SandBeige|5-Speed|143,300 miles|17" BBS RK, 8.5" Front, 10" Rear|Eibach Front and Rear AntiRoll Kit|M Sport Suspension Swap|"Muffler Delete" Mod|ZHP Shift Knob|Mtech Front Bumper with T-bar Grille|M Sport Steering Wheel Swap|Auxiliary Input Mod

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  #124  
Old 05-03-2013, 09:31 AM
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cwsqbm cwsqbm is offline
Dreaming of Track Days
Location: Somewhere in the aether
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,043
Mein Auto: ED'd 330Ci / E30 325i
Ignoring all the BMW bashing, I'd say the most overrated cars are previous generation STI and Mitsu Evolutions. Most owners think they'll keep up with a Ferrari on race track, ignoring that I passed them in my lowly non-M E46. I'm also not impressed with the Lotus Elise. Sure, the car weighs next to nothing and might be fun to drive, but its not that fast.
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  #125  
Old 05-03-2013, 01:08 PM
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Justin T Justin T is offline
Launch Control Ready
Location: The TPC just off 485 in CLT
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Mein Auto: 11 997.2 S & 11 335 ZMZ
I have owned the E90 M3 and now drive a 2011 E90 335. This is silly.

The M3 is completely different... I know I can chip the 335, change the brakes, the suspension, the diff, blah blah blah. Whatever...

However, I am working towards getting a 2010 or 20111 997 S w/ PDK next and yeah as much as I loved the M3, different league.

The C63 is for the Clarkson persona type; total waste of a great motor.

The RS4 was an excellent car...closest to the M3 but back to back, the M3 felt more alive. I drove the S5 before getting the M3...waste of time - way too soft.

I had a 2003 Z06 with 405HP before the ram air system; probably was around 450 at the crank afterwards. Torque monster. Yes it was quicker than the M3 but the M3 was way more communicative and much better car overall.

Most overrated car? Miata. I do not get it. Yes it shifts well..*****...its a chic car.
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Previous cars: 10 135i, 08 E90 M3, 07 E550 Mercedes, 03 Corvette Z06, 01 Audi S4, 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S, 88 BMW M6
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