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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:12 PM
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krash krash is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
It is not about a badge, it is also about an ownership experience and GTI is NO substitute for a 3-series, whatever the engine.
Of course not. But if you're living off of savings, don't have a steady income, then does a stripped down 328 make sense?

I'd argue a stripped down 320i doesn't make any sense either.

Unless of course you're one of those trust fund kids that are sitting on a couple million, then yes, absolutely, go for it. I just don't know if that is what we're talking about here.
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  #77  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:41 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is online now
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Originally Posted by krash View Post
Unless of course you're one of those trust fund kids that are sitting on a couple million, then yes, absolutely, go for it. I just don't know if that is what we're talking about here.
Couple of million is not very much money these days. If that's all I had, I'd be wary of spending so much on a car.
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  #78  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:54 PM
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krash krash is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
Couple of million is not very much money these days. If that's all I had, I'd be wary of spending so much on a car.
Seriously. You're making my point for me. Where I come from, you don't buy a $35,000 car unless you have steady income. Not only that, you don't buy a $35,000 car unless you have a steady 6 figure salary. Maybe it's just how I was raised, but $35,000 cars aren't for people that are living off of their savings, and may or may not have a job a year from now...
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  #79  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:28 PM
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Stripped Down 328i

With extra 3k, id go with
Alpine white or jet black
Lighting
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  #80  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:31 PM
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Hey your car image doesn't show your moonroof. You got the wrong image.
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  #81  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:36 PM
PFol310 PFol310 is offline
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Makes you wonder if inter dweebs sit back and say..

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  #82  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:16 PM
Nickh Nickh is offline
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OP:
You can negociate a BASE 2013 328i sedan for Invoice price of $33,900, plus $895 Destination Fee for total of $34,795. Minus USAA discount - $1500.
So TT&L may be around $35K.
Gets you a black or white ext w/ 8 speed steptronic auto, 17" wheels, & all the excitement of a BMW 3 Series.

Please, Please call it a BASE 328i, & not a Stripped down or Cheap model.

Never mind the guys on here who says you must spend $50K on a bloated & optioned out 3 Series. If you need a souped up stereo, nav system, or other creature comforts, Your Base model will be a few pounds lighter & may outrun them all (may, but not likely).
You'll definitely comes out way ahead at trade in time, as those who owns the highly optioned out $50K will get hammered on trade in value, as most dealers (& Carmax) won't care that you paid extra for metallic paint, overpriced nav systems, upgraded stereo systems, bigger wheels.

Another option is to do a 36 month lease. If your FICO score is above 675, BMW bank NA will lease you a Base 328i sedan for $349 / month, with $2750 down, or a Base 328i Coupe for $329 / month with $2750 down.
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  #83  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:56 PM
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LarryboysUDM LarryboysUDM is offline
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Originally Posted by valley_nomad View Post
My budget for a 328i is low as I currently live off my savings while working on my own ideas. So I have been looking at the "striped down" version of 328i. i.e. no metallic paint, no leather, no package etc, just no-trim "Classic Line". The only options are automatic and alarm. The invoice (incl. destination fee) from Edmunds is 35K. How much I have to pay on top of that price in my area? $500 or $1k? Will the stripped down version be delivered sooner or later?

Considering my priority order for options is safety, maintenance cost, convenience, comfort and performance, what are the options I should add if I have extra $3K (excl. tax) to spend?

Try to get some thoughts here before starting to talk to the dealers Thanks!
BASE328i+PDC750+Lighting900+DHP1000+Alarm400

Good luck.
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  #84  
Old 04-30-2013, 02:37 AM
Jack in Jax Jack in Jax is offline
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"You can negociate a BASE 2013 328i sedan for Invoice price of $33,900, plus $895 Destination Fee for total of $34,795. Minus USAA discount - $1500."

The USAA discount probably won't bring that much savings off an invoice price. But...any price can be dropped further. CCA's rebate for a 3 is $500. ED's price is ~$3K less and they will drive it to the port for 75 Euros, so plane+rail ticket+an overnight & nice meal will net out at another ~$1500 saved. More if some FF miles are used.

The OP has apparently moved on but, even so, the thread had value for some. Most relevant observation in the 4 pages of posts is that we each have our own reasons for wanting a BMW. Consequently, our model + options choices are personal, as well.

Jack
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  #85  
Old 04-30-2013, 05:55 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by Jugghaid View Post
True, however I drove the Volkswagen CC VR6 4motion (fairly equivalent in price to a base 328i) and the driving experience was no contest. Hands down the 328i was a better drivers car IMO.

I would put the Volkswagen on par with the Benz C 300 for how fun it was to drive. Not bad, but not as good as the 3-series. Slower, less punch, worse handling, etc.

And this is coming from a guy who has a VW family. I have 4 in the garage right now.
Absolute worst configuration for a sporty CC. AWD, too heavy with the VR6 engine. I'd look at a R-line version for $8K less at 3400 pounds. It won't we as sporty as a $38K 328i due to the FWD and 200 HP engine but it's a fine car.
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  #86  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:01 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickh View Post
OP:
You can negociate a BASE 2013 328i sedan for Invoice price of $33,900, plus $895 Destination Fee for total of $34,795. Minus USAA discount - $1500.
So TT&L may be around $35K.
Gets you a black or white ext w/ 8 speed steptronic auto, 17" wheels, & all the excitement of a BMW 3 Series.

Please, Please call it a BASE 328i, & not a Stripped down or Cheap model.

Never mind the guys on here who says you must spend $50K on a bloated & optioned out 3 Series. If you need a souped up stereo, nav system, or other creature comforts, Your Base model will be a few pounds lighter & may outrun them all (may, but not likely).
You'll definitely comes out way ahead at trade in time, as those who owns the highly optioned out $50K will get hammered on trade in value, as most dealers (& Carmax) won't care that you paid extra for metallic paint, overpriced nav systems, upgraded stereo systems, bigger wheels.

Another option is to do a 36 month lease. If your FICO score is above 675, BMW bank NA will lease you a Base 328i sedan for $349 / month, with $2750 down, or a Base 328i Coupe for $329 / month with $2750 down.
This was a good option with the E90, particularly the 2011 that came std with the Value Package that gave you free leather, iPod connectivity and 17" wheels. Not so much with the F30 where you'd have the crappy steering and brake feel and plastic seats. At minimum I think DHP is required and leather would be nice. That's nearly a $40K retail price. And no way am I going to put $2750.00 down on a lease.
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  #87  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:19 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
This was a good option with the E90, particularly the 2011 that came std with the Value Package that gave you free leather, iPod connectivity and 17" wheels. Not so much with the F30 where you'd have the crappy steering and brake feel and plastic seats. At minimum I think DHP is required and leather would be nice. That's nearly a $40K retail price. And no way am I going to put $2750.00 down on a lease.
Which options improve the steering and brake feel?

CA


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  #88  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:45 AM
Jugghaid Jugghaid is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Absolute worst configuration for a sporty CC. AWD, too heavy with the VR6 engine. I'd look at a R-line version for $8K less at 3400 pounds. It won't we as sporty as a $38K 328i due to the FWD and 200 HP engine but it's a fine car.
And I'm not slagging on the CC. It's a great car. But it's not on the same level as a 328. Neither is the GTI.

My buddy's R32 was a great car when it came out. Now, not so much.

Now, if I only had $20k to spend on a car instead of more than double that, VW would be a serious consideration.

And as much as C&D and a few others have said they don't like the F30, fact is it's a more powerful, roomier car than it's predecessors, it has a ton more tech options, and the only areas where people routinely criticize it are in subjective areas such as "steering feel". The steering on this car is very accurate and it handles very well. Especially with DHP. The fact that it doesn't "feel the same" has nothing to do with the actual performance of the car.

I think that the reason comments like "the E90 would have beat the F30 in our comparo" are made by C&D, etc are because they want to try and pressure BMW to get rid of the electronically assisted steering and go back to the steering feel they are used to.

But all of the objective data suggests that the F30 is a better car in pretty much every statistical category.

Quote:

.................................................2 012 BMW 328i.....................2010 BMW 328i
0-30 (sec.):................................2.1........ ...............................2.3
0-45 (sec.):................................3.9........ ...............................4.2
0-60 (sec.):................................5.9........ ...............................6.4
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.):.........5.5............................... ........6.0
0-75 (sec.):................................8.6........ ...............................9.5
1/4-mile (sec @ mph):.................14.1 @ 98.9...........................14.7 @ 94.8
30-0 (ft):....................................28....... .................................30
60-0 (ft):....................................115...... .................................126
Skid pad lateral accel (g):............0.88.............................. ........0.84
Slalom:.......................................67.1 .....................................65.0


source http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...x-vs-four.html
Some people just have trouble with change. Even if it's change for the better.
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  #89  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:02 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Which options improve the steering and brake feel?

CA


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Unfortunately none but at least the DHP offers the option to firm up the suspension. The brakes are not as big a deal as the steering and I sure hope BMW does something about this soon.
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  #90  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:08 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by Jugghaid View Post
And I'm not slagging on the CC. It's a great car. But it's not on the same level as a 328. Neither is the GTI.

My buddy's R32 was a great car when it came out. Now, not so much.

Now, if I only had $20k to spend on a car instead of more than double that, VW would be a serious consideration.

And as much as C&D and a few others have said they don't like the F30, fact is it's a more powerful, roomier car than it's predecessors, it has a ton more tech options, and the only areas where people routinely criticize it are in subjective areas such as "steering feel". The steering on this car is very accurate and it handles very well. Especially with DHP. The fact that it doesn't "feel the same" has nothing to do with the actual performance of the car.

I think that the reason comments like "the E90 would have beat the F30 in our comparo" are made by C&D, etc are because they want to try and pressure BMW to get rid of the electronically assisted steering and go back to the steering feel they are used to.

But all of the objective data suggests that the F30 is a better car in pretty much every statistical category.



Some people just have trouble with change. Even if it's change for the better.
But subjective feel is what an enthusiast likes about a sport sedan. I had the opportunity to drive an F30 last week for a day while my E90 was in for service and as a sport sedan it is inferior to my car. Steering feel is extremely important to an enthusiast owner and the F30 fails badly in this regard. In fact it may drive me to another brand or to an xDrive X1 (to get the old hydraulic steering) for my next car.

However improved the car is overall as a daily driver, and the interior is much improved as are the features, I prefer the dynamics of the E90 by quite a margin. By the way I like the N20 engine quite a bit.
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  #91  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:19 AM
Jugghaid Jugghaid is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
But subjective feel is what an enthusiast likes about a sport sedan. I had the opportunity to drive an F30 last week for a day while my E90 was in for service and as a sport sedan it is inferior to my car. Steering feel is extremely important to an enthusiast owner and the F30 fails badly in this regard. In fact it may drive me to another brand or to an xDrive X1 (to get the old hydraulic steering) for my next car.

However improved the car is overall as a daily driver, and the interior is much improved as are the features, I prefer the dynamics of the E90 by quite a margin. By the way I like the N20 engine quite a bit.
It's a give and take IMO.

There are so many pluses to the F30 over the E90 that the subjective steering feel to me is a wash at best.

My dealership still has a few E90 sedans (as well as a ton of coupes and verts) on the lot. I drove both, and while I did like the steering feel better in the E90, I liked everything else better in the F30. To me, it made sense to go with the F30. YMMV.
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  #92  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:33 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Unfortunately none but at least the DHP offers the option to firm up the suspension. The brakes are not as big a deal as the steering and I sure hope BMW does something about this soon.
Brake feel is improved with the MSport pads.
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  #93  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:35 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Brake feel is improved with the MSport pads.
That would be a worthwhile swap. I wish there was a way to recode the steering for more feel. Even in Sport mode it was lifeless.
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  #94  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:58 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Which options improve the steering and brake feel?

CA

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On the 320i, nothing can do both.

On the 328i and 335i, the Dynamic Handling Package corrects both to the satisfaction of their owners.

Something that isn't being recognized here is how BMW has shifted its entire approach and it's entire car line by 2016. In the middle of the F30 life cycle, the new 1 Series and the new 2 Series will be out along with the 4 Series all of which will allow consumers to choose the BMW that is right for them in the sub $40,000 price range.

The F30 is larger and softer because, my opinion, the new 1 will be smaller and firmer. In effect, the F30 replaces the void of the E39 while the new 1 will replace the legendary E46. Two of the best sedan platforms and sizes ever, re-created into brand new form factors. What's going on now is that we are merely batting out of order. So people who view the 3 in the same light as 1980-2005 don't understand that in the middle of the F30 lifecycle the new strategy will be unveiled. They're criticizing the 3 Sedan because the 1 Sedan isn't here yet.

BJ
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Last edited by boltjaM3s; 04-30-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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  #95  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:03 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
On the 320i, nothing can do both.

On the 328i and 335i, the Dynamic Handling Package corrects both to the satisfaction of their owners.

Something that isn't being recognized here is how BMW has shifted its entire approach and it's entire car line by 2016. In the middle of the F30 life cycle, the new 1 Series and the new 2 Series will be out along with the 4 Series all of which will allow consumers to choose the BMW that is right for them in the sub $40,000 price range.

The F30 is larger and softer because, my opinion, the new 1 will be smaller and firmer. In effect, the F30 replaces the void of the E39 while the new 1 will replace the legendary E46. Two of the best sedan platforms and sizes ever, re-created into brand new form factors. What's going on now is that we are merely batting out of order. So people who view the 3 in the same light as 1980-2005 don't understand that in the middle of the F30 lifecycle the new strategy will be unveiled. They're criticizing the 3 Sedan because the 1 Sedan isn't here yet.

BJ
What does this mean? The brakes are no different and the only difference in the steering is the variable rate. I have not driven a DHP F30 but my educated thought is that the ride is better controlled but the steering feel is no better. Maybe the improved body motion control translates to better steering accuracy.
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  #96  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:23 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
What does this mean? The brakes are no different and the only difference in the steering is the variable rate. I have not driven a DHP F30 but my educated thought is that the ride is better controlled but the steering feel is no better. Maybe the improved body motion control translates to better steering accuracy.
The DHP also includes the Adaptive M Suspension which does two important things:

1. Shifts from Comfort dampening to Sport dampening at the flip of a switch. This is a physical change to the suspension, not some electronic nuance like the driving modes are.

2. Constantly is adjusting and readjusting itself to road conditions making handling much improved. Again, this is a physical change to the suspension not a computer making timing tweaks as in the case of steering or transmission.

DHP suspension is Sport line suspension + active dampening. From what I have read from its owners, not only does it make the ride better but it improves the steering and handling as well.

BJ
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  #97  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:55 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
That would be a worthwhile swap. I wish there was a way to recode the steering for more feel. Even in Sport mode it was lifeless.
There are people claiming the PPK affects steering feel that comfort feels like sport and sport feels like DTC off. I am pessimistic but I have an offer to drive one and see for myself from Suneil.
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  #98  
Old 04-30-2013, 09:10 AM
jlukja jlukja is offline
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BJ, I get what you're saying but the Adaptive M Suspension has almost no effect on steering or brake feel. I say almost because it does keep the car flatter under hard cornering and flatter under heavy braking (i.e. less lean and leass dive) but I'm not sure if that translates to better brake or steering feel.
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  #99  
Old 04-30-2013, 01:36 PM
pcbrew pcbrew is offline
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Originally Posted by jlukja View Post
BJ, I get what you're saying but the Adaptive M Suspension has almost no effect on steering or brake feel. I say almost because it does keep the car flatter under hard cornering and flatter under heavy braking (i.e. less lean and leass dive) but I'm not sure if that translates to better brake or steering feel.
With standard or sport (passive) suspension, the driving experience switch (Eco Pro, Comfort, Sport) adjusts:
- throttle response,
- auto transmission shift points
- steering weight/stiffness

If you have the adaptive sport suspension, the same driving experience switch affects suspension stiffness - you do not get an extra switch for the adaptive suspension.
What you do get is ability to configure via iDrive whether Sport applies to Drivetrain only (normal stuff covered by Sport), Chassis only (adaptive suspension), or Both.
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  #100  
Old 04-30-2013, 01:50 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Mein Auto: 335i E93 - 750Lix
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The DHP also includes the Adaptive M Suspension which does two important things:

1. Shifts from Comfort dampening to Sport dampening at the flip of a switch. This is a physical change to the suspension, not some electronic nuance like the driving modes are.

2. Constantly is adjusting and readjusting itself to road conditions making handling much improved. Again, this is a physical change to the suspension not a computer making timing tweaks as in the case of steering or transmission.

DHP suspension is Sport line suspension + active dampening. From what I have read from its owners, not only does it make the ride better but it improves the steering and handling as well.

BJ
The 750 has adaptive suspension and it is very effective. In the city in comfort mode the car rides very smoothly and handles potholes, construction plates, etc. very well. In sport and sport plus it stiffens up but in any mode it is active and will react to changes in the road surface.

CA
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