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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-28-2013, 08:48 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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The Limit is Yours.

The video in the article is about motorcycles, but it applies to cars as well.

http://motorcycles.about.com/b/2012/...on-control.htm

Is BMW sacrificing it's hard earned reputation as a driver's car in the pursuit of sales and safety?

Last edited by BashedBarrique; 04-28-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:36 PM
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They're not sacrificing performance for safety. They are sacrificing some performance to meet government fuel efficiency and emissions regulations. They are also sacrificing some performance for sales, to appeal to a broader constituency that values a more compliant (read softer) suspension over a stiffer, firmer, more performance oriented one.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 04-28-2013 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:55 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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I agree that government regulations are driving some of the changes, but not all.

And as you say they are softening the ride, at the expense of handling, to attract a wider audience.

But is that ultimately a good strategy? Should BMW be trying to be all things to all people at the expense of producing an automobile that is straying farther and farther from what established the company as a driver's car?

If BMW achieves a greater market share but does so by producing cars that are indistinguishable in character from other premium luxury brands, like say Lexus, is that what we BMW enthusiasts want to see?
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
I agree that government regulations are driving some of the changes, but not all.

And as you say they are softening the ride, at the expense of handling, to attract a wider audience.

But is that ultimately a good strategy? Should BMW be trying to be all things to all people at the expense of producing an automobile that is straying farther and farther from what established the company as a driver's car?

If BMW achieves a greater market share but does so by producing cars that are indistinguishable in character from other premium luxury brands, like say Lexus, is that what we BMW enthusiasts want to see?
They are walking a tight rope. They have to. BMW is not in any danger of becoming Lexus. There is a not insignificant segment of the market in which they compete that finds the firmer suspension of the E46, E9x, E60 generations objectionable enough to send them to Merc. BMW is trying to give enough to woo that crowd without losing their core constituency. The new F30 standard suspension is less firm than the standard E90 suspension and the F30 sport suspension is marginally less firm than the E90 sport suspension. More than likely the majority of non-Bimmerfest types will view the new standard suspension as preferable and most sport suspension types will be hard pressed to be able to notice the new sport suspension is slightly less firm. Then, of course, there's the new adaptive suspension, which some have reported is firmer in sport mode than the standard sport suspension.

The F30 suspension and handling is still markedly better than the Merc C Class. Even though the Caddy ATS is getting good reviews for it's handling, I don't think anyone is labelling it better overall than a sport suspension F30. Caddy benchmarked the ATS to the E46 and that is pretty much what they built, a Cadillac version of the E46. That's all well and good, but the market has moved on from there....for eight years now. One big complaint consumers in this market had with the E46 was lack of interior room. Well, the ATS has even less interior room than the E46.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 04-29-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-29-2013, 02:01 AM
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Body shop owners business must have declined since stability control was mandated

I know sooo many people who crashed their first powerful rwd car in the wet. Have 'span' several times myself over the years in situations that stability would have saved but I liked to hang the rear out especially in the wet (max spin always seemed to be 180 degrees for me as in the very worst cases I caught it to roll backwards until stopping). Of course at track days it gets disabled.. on the street it virtually always stays on
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Last edited by MP3_E46; 04-29-2013 at 02:04 AM.
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  #6  
Old 04-29-2013, 04:09 AM
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They will continue to mix in high M4 & medium level 335is performance cars into the mix & do just fine. EU & US governments want to put all of us into electro-boxes but some people will resist & still pay for performance.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:08 AM
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They will continue to mix in high M4 & medium level 335is performance cars into the mix & do just fine. EU & US governments want to put all of us into electro-boxes but some people will resist & still pay for performance.

Y'know, electric drive is a night 'n' day improvement over internal combustion. Too bad energy storage isn't there.

Gotta wonder what they were going to do about grid demand.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:58 AM
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Now that I live in a house, with an electrical outlet 1 foot from where the car is to be parked electrical is an option. The only problem, as Cal said, the storage / regeneration is not there. If my all electric can do climb to the clouds drive (read Philly to New Hampshire) then it's viable. Short trips, with the requirement to attached the car to a wall socket is problematic. Plus the infrastructure is not here. If the gov't wants all electric they will need to implement some solution. Probably the battery swap idea is good, as well as charging stations. For example, they have charging stations in central park...but it's only for gov't vehicles. Put them for all vehicles, plus do battery swap and all electric cars are more viable. Then work on improving regeneration and battery storage.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:03 AM
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Also. Instead of gov't offering bonus money for companies who come up with concepts (which never get put into action, or are dramatically more expensive then their combustion counterparts and give poor performance) have the gov't offer large rewards to car companies which produce viable, inexpensive and good performance vehicles. So offer all electric, giving 450-500 miles, at the same price as combustion vehicles. Now a company who does this should get a substantial gov't subsidy...instead of these craptastic cars that can't go more than 100 miles.
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I agree with furby
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Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Y'know, electric drive is a night 'n' day improvement over internal combustion. Too bad energy storage isn't there.

Gotta wonder what they were going to do about grid demand.
In Germany, to encourage using electricity at night for items that can run at night, pricing varies for peak to non-peak hours. We had electric heaters in the house that included internal storage. They used electricity in non-peak hours over night to heat up and only a small electric fan ran during the day to push the heat into the house during the day.

I believe we probably have enough capacity if charging is done over night, which is possible if cars are able to run all day without needing a charge and can park in the garage over night to charge slower and during off-peak hours.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:16 AM
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In Germany, to encourage using electricity at night for items that can run at night, pricing varies for peak to non-peak hours. We had electric heaters in the house that included internal storage. They used electricity in non-peak hours over night to heat up and only a small electric fan ran during the day to push the heat into the house during the day.

I believe we probably have enough capacity if charging is done over night, which is possible if cars are able to run all day without needing a charge and can park in the garage over night to charge slower and during off-peak hours.

Ummmm....just after commute hours, I wonder what the draw of, say, 30 million electric vehicles recharging might be. Of course, holiday draw would be dramatic, and Summer load on hot weekends, everyone going somewhere, might be a touch high.

This question's low hangin' fruit! Is there no mufti-million $$ study to reference? Mayhap in the 8+ digit $ grant area?
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Ummmm....just after commute hours, I wonder what the draw of, say, 30 million electric vehicles recharging might be. Of course, holiday draw would be dramatic, and Summer load on hot weekends, everyone going somewhere, might be a touch high.

This question's low hangin' fruit! Is there no mufti-million $$ study to reference? Mayhap in the 8+ digit $ grant area?
No such study needed, all the data should be there. Overnight numbers are the floor or the system idling while peak demand can be easily traced down to the highest hitters -- A/Cs and appliance. System is sized to allow for this peak to occur. Difference between peak and idle is the headroom you have overnight. It would be relatively simple to calculate how many cars that would charge over night.

If everyone plugged in when they got home it would never worked. Trickle charge over night when everyone's sleeping probably would, especially since market penetration would be somewhat gradual to allow for sizing.

Stop looking for grants, Cal!
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:40 PM
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No such study needed, all the data should be there.

Clearly, sir, you are not of the government persuasion.

A current study is needed, with followup studies to verify findings and establish baseline trends. Only then will government have the data it needs to ask for, and pass, a massive spending bill. Object: Enable top campaign contributors to build the infrastructure we so badly need for electric cars. Also, provide stimulus to build such cars, so different than today's electric cars and so much more advanced.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:44 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old.

I kind'a expected some "Yeah, where have all the real cars gone?" responses.

Electric cars? Seriously? Have you ever driven a Nissan Leaf? I have. A golf cart has more soul. Is it just about getting from point "A" to point "B" now? Are you worried about your carbon footprint?

The first time I heard a 427 side oiler at full wail I was hooked on the internal combustion engine. Leaning a one liter sport bike into a corner at 12,000 rpm is a visceral thrill that can never be approached by any vehicle powered by a rotor, a stator and copper windings.

Electric motors are for blenders and vacuum cleaners.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Clearly, sir, you are not of the government persuasion.

A current study is needed, with followup studies to verify findings and establish baseline trends. Only then will government have the data it needs to ask for, and pass, a massive spending bill. Object: Enable top campaign contributors to build the infrastructure we so badly need for electric cars. Also, provide stimulus to build such cars, so different than today's electric cars and so much more advanced.
I'm relieved that is obvious.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:23 PM
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Electric motors are for blenders and vacuum cleaners.
I don't know, man. I only know that my hands itch so badly to put them on (and my where-the-back-stops-being-called-politely-anymore into the seat of) a car that has following characteristics:

- one electric motor on each wheel
- independent drive and power to each of those motors
- software that can do everything you need on a click of a radio-button or check-box
- everything being torque vectoring front-aft and left-right
- possibility to select FWD, RWD or AWD depending on what you are doing
- battery pack on a moving rail with encoder for position so you can move it as ballast on F1 car to wherever suites you best for that occasion
- range 200 or better miles
- charge time max 30 min

Wouldn't you want a car like that? I LOVE the sound certain ICEs make, but other than the sound, I also think ICE is hugely overrated. It's not about carbon footprint, it's about flexibility unheard of with ICE, transmission, driveshafts, differentials and so on and so forth.
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