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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:34 PM
alynch506 alynch506 is offline
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Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

Hi all,

After receiving my $10,000 quote for Valve Stem Seals for my 50,000 mile 07 750, I truly cannot beleive that this would happen to a BMW at such low mileage.

My local indy (Bill Ballon in Pittsburgh) suggested that I call BMW and go off about how ridiculous it is that a complete engine rebuild needs to take place at such a low mileage on a car that isn't very old.

I called today and spoke to about 3 different people and explained how it is absolutely outrageous that this vehicle needs 40 hour engine work at such a low mileage. I wasn't able to get any sort of help though. Has anyone had any previous experience with dealing with BMW about this issue or any similar issues? I quite honestly am going to have a huge problem paying $10000 for engine work on a car that I just purchased with 50,000 miles.

Also, does anyone know of any class action suits or anything of that sort being filed previously about this issue? Any suggestions that anyone out there is able to provide me with as far as going about getting help from BMW on this issue would be greatly appreciated as well as any past experiences with this issue.

Thanks!
Kyle
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:50 PM
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745iguy 745iguy is offline
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Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

unfortunately, you aren't going to get any out of warranty help with this at all.
it is a well known problem and one of the many reasons i will never again in my life own a bmw with a v8.


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  #3  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:54 PM
3star 3star is offline
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10,000 to change a part that costs less than 20.00 lolol did u laugh the mechanic to shame.

Dude go buy some tools from home depot it should run u 500.00 and tell the wife or girlfriend ull be busy this weekend.

Hell if u can't do it pay for my plane ticket I'll fly down and fix it for 1/10 the the price lolol 10,000 hahahaha on what planet u could do a m5 v10 engine swap for that lolololol
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:55 PM
3star 3star is offline
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Also was the valvestem seal diagnosis verified via leak down test
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2013, 04:00 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Hello, I'm a BMW master tech, I've done this repair many times at work (at the dealer). I've also done it on the side for several forum members. I charge $2500 for the whole job, parts and labor. Let me know if you're interested in taking the drive to Long Island, NY to get it done.
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2013, 04:02 PM
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745iguy 745iguy is offline
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Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

ps for future sake, search; you will see the number of people this has affected and how they dealt with it.


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  #7  
Old 04-30-2013, 05:10 PM
alynch506 alynch506 is offline
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The quote was actually from P&W BMW dealer in Pittsburgh. It reads:

"Found vehicle was smoking excessively out of exhaust when allowed to sit for a period of time idling and then hitting the throttle. Inspected crankcase vent valves and found them OK. Based on vehicle mileage and doing same repair on previous vehicles determined that valve guide seals are worn and will require replacement to correct issue."

I'm not sure if this means that they have done the test that you're talking about. I'm taking it into the Indy on 5/15 to have him give it a full lookover to figure out what needs to truly be done.

It stuns me that they say this is a "common issue" at this mileage. The indy told me that this is a "125,000 to 175,000 mile issue. Definitely not 50,000". He was quite furious at BMW about it.
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2013, 05:26 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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I've done the job on cars with as little as 45k miles... A cylinder leakage test will not determine failed valve stem seals. Based on what the dealer wrote, it sounds like valve steam seals to me
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  #9  
Old 05-05-2013, 03:48 PM
JUBMW JUBMW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alynch506 View Post
The quote was actually from P&W BMW dealer in Pittsburgh. It reads:

"Found vehicle was smoking excessively out of exhaust when allowed to sit for a period of time idling and then hitting the throttle. Inspected crankcase vent valves and found them OK. Based on vehicle mileage and doing same repair on previous vehicles determined that valve guide seals are worn and will require replacement to correct issue."

I'm not sure if this means that they have done the test that you're talking about. I'm taking it into the Indy on 5/15 to have him give it a full lookover to figure out what needs to truly be done.

It stuns me that they say this is a "common issue" at this mileage. The indy told me that this is a "125,000 to 175,000 mile issue. Definitely not 50,000". He was quite furious at BMW about it.
Dude I see bmwoem1 has reached to you already. Trust me you will be happy if you take the drive to NY. Someone from Ohio already did and was more than happy that he did. I hope you do the same.
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  #10  
Old 05-05-2013, 04:22 PM
Khabar Khabar is offline
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there is guy in Ohio Royal auto service http://royalauto-service.com/ he is good and it not far from u.
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  #11  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:56 PM
Mr.750 Mr.750 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alynch506 View Post
Hi all,

After receiving my $10,000 quote for Valve Stem Seals for my 50,000 mile 07 750, I truly cannot beleive that this would happen to a BMW at such low mileage.

My local indy (Bill Ballon in Pittsburgh) suggested that I call BMW and go off about how ridiculous it is that a complete engine rebuild needs to take place at such a low mileage on a car that isn't very old.

I called today and spoke to about 3 different people and explained how it is absolutely outrageous that this vehicle needs 40 hour engine work at such a low mileage. I wasn't able to get any sort of help though. Has anyone had any previous experience with dealing with BMW about this issue or any similar issues? I quite honestly am going to have a huge problem paying $10000 for engine work on a car that I just purchased with 50,000 miles.

Also, does anyone know of any class action suits or anything of that sort being filed previously about this issue? Any suggestions that anyone out there is able to provide me with as far as going about getting help from BMW on this issue would be greatly appreciated as well as any past experiences with this issue.

Thanks!
Kyle
Your best bet is to take a drive to NY and have BMWOEM1 do it. Everyone here that has used him only has positive things to say about him, I have yet to hear a single complaint. For 1/4th of the price, its a steal.
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2013, 07:09 PM
bkc0508 bkc0508 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
I've done the job on cars with as little as 45k miles... A cylinder leakage test will not determine failed valve stem seals. Based on what the dealer wrote, it sounds like valve steam seals to me
Bmwoem1 knows what he is talking about. It is valve stem seals me and and buddy did mine and if I had to do it over again 2500 sounds like a cheap price to me. It cost me less DIY but still its a big pain in the rear.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2013, 07:44 PM
nr123 nr123 is offline
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Originally Posted by bkc0508 View Post
Bmwoem1 knows what he is talking about. It is valve stem seals me and and buddy did mine and if I had to do it over again 2500 sounds like a cheap price to me. It cost me less DIY but still its a big pain in the rear.
I agree with the other posters, you are in PA, drive to NY, let bmwoem1 do the job - we've all had him work on our cars and 0 complaints.
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2013, 01:28 AM
chamboko chamboko is offline
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Unfortunately BMW is not going to be helpful here at all, I had the same problem and I was in just as much shock as you are when they gave me the quote. I couldn't even believe the look on some of the bmw techs when they were talking to me about it. To them, it was more like, dude, go home and get the money/check, if not, get your car and get out, no courtesy at all. I just gave up, took my car and drove home. Foreign auto garages out here gave me quotes from hell too, finally, I got in touch with bmwoem1, he fixed it for 2500$. Feel free to look around, if it all fails, bmwoem1 will take care of you.
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:58 PM
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A B Able Truck A B Able Truck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alynch506 View Post
Hi all,

After receiving my $10,000 quote for Valve Stem Seals for my 50,000 mile 07 750, I truly cannot beleive that this would happen to a BMW at such low mileage.

My local indy (Bill Ballon in Pittsburgh) suggested that I call BMW and go off about how ridiculous it is that a complete engine rebuild needs to take place at such a low mileage on a car that isn't very old.

I called today and spoke to about 3 different people and explained how it is absolutely outrageous that this vehicle needs 40 hour engine work at such a low mileage. I wasn't able to get any sort of help though. Has anyone had any previous experience with dealing with BMW about this issue or any similar issues? I quite honestly am going to have a huge problem paying $10000 for engine work on a car that I just purchased with 50,000 miles.

Also, does anyone know of any class action suits or anything of that sort being filed previously about this issue? Any suggestions that anyone out there is able to provide me with as far as going about getting help from BMW on this issue would be greatly appreciated as well as any past experiences with this issue.

Thanks!
Kyle

Oil consumption was excessive - It smoked - I was told I needed valve stem seals

My car (didn't pass smog & couldn't renew registration);
2006 BMW 550I 92,000 miles V8 (N62TU)
Smokes (white/gray ) failed visual Smog Report (15 mph HC ppm Measured 91 Max. 49)

Symptoms & history;
It used oil (approx. 1 qt. per 2-3 tanks) and I read the history of V8 valve stem problems (internet & local shop research), I was about to have the valve guide/stem seals replaced or drive the car off a cliff. But it didnt have the classic symptoms of defective valve stem seals/guides. It also ran like a rapped ape (old school for ran great). Im a heavy truck mechanic with old school car experience (35 years). The plugs were clean and the exhaust smelled funny, also the exhaust dripped clean water no matter how hot or long it ran. I pulled the intake throttle housing and noticed excessive oil. Replaced the (ccv) diaphragms in the valve covers (torn) & read up on the cyclone oil separator (like a Dyson vacuum). Because I wasnt happy with the oil consumption & residue in the intake, I fabricated a sponge with screen for each valve cover vent outlet. This cleaned out the oil residue and I assume it will reduce oil consumption while allowing crankcase recirculation, but it did not solve the smoke problem. I pulled the spark plugs and stuck a camera down a couple plug holes. Yes, the top of the pistons were loaded with carbon. So I sprayed Sea Foam in each plug hole, followed by a shot of low pressure shop air to help spread it around the piston. I let it sit for an hour or so, then reinstalled the plugs. I topped off the fuel tank with high octane and added 12 oz. of CRC Fuel System Cleaner (part #05063) to the tank. 100 miles later and what a difference no smoke or water dipping out the exhaust after warm up. Im in love with the car again

**The valve stem diameter was increase at a production point (you would assume) to remedy the guide problem. I could't believe BMW would continue to use inferior stem seals after this change. My vehicle has now passed smog test & no longer smokes. I did have to run the proceedure twice before it lowerd the HC levels within specs. And I will probably do it 1 more time for good measure. It cost me $200 to fix compared to the $4000 > $5000 I was told it would take for a guide/seal replacement **

**** Day 14 - 760 miles later NO smoke or excessive water from tailpipe - It also **** Does not need any oil ****
For those of you seasoned mechanics replacing guides & seals - This worked for me - my vehicle - my situation - but I believe you should diagnose each vehicle on an individual basis - Regardless of BMW guide/valve stem history.

**Note: I need to give full credit to my 25 yr. old friend/mechanic/smog tech/neighbor for his insistence I try Sea Foam. He works on BMWs, Mercedes and other makes. I never heard of Sea Foam (we used Justice Brothers in my hay day) and I didn't believe it would solve my issue. Although it was my idea to soak the piston tops first before spraying it thru the intake. I'll also take credit for the sponge/foam/screen in the PCV hose idea. **
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:10 AM
Poochieman Poochieman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
Hello, I'm a BMW master tech, I've done this repair many times at work (at the dealer). I've also done it on the side for several forum members. I charge $2500 for the whole job, parts and labor. Let me know if you're interested in taking the drive to Long Island, NY to get it done.
Hello, I was looking at the post for BMW 750Li start smoking when idleing and that you are a reputable person from other members to get the job done. Over the weekend, I noticed that my car start smoking when I am idleing for long periods of time. I read that the symptoms could be my valve stems or something minor but I'm not sure unless I take it to a mechanic to get it checked out. The car runs fine w/ 94K miles. I occasionally have to add oil in between oil changes but other than that, I have no problems. Could you tell me the right route to take in resolving this matter.
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:28 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

I just you a PM


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  #18  
Old 06-25-2013, 11:27 AM
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MOPAULY MOPAULY is offline
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Originally Posted by 3star View Post
Also was the valvestem seal diagnosis verified via leak down test
what are you talking about? Valves seal against the cylinder head, not the valve stem seals...
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:37 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

Correct, a leak down test will not determine if you need valve stem seals.


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  #20  
Old 06-26-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Could you tell me the right route to take in resolving this matter.
Haven't you heard??!! All you need is some Seafoam!
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  #21  
Old 06-26-2013, 08:38 AM
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Re: Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

Call bmwoem1 he will fix it for sure.

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  #22  
Old 06-26-2013, 01:55 PM
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Haven't you heard??!! All you need is some Seafoam!
OK - If you don't want to try Sea Foam - here is a BMW Service Bulletin (S B 13 01 07 dated Dec. 2007) related to Induction System Cleaning using an approved BMW product that I'm sure BMWOEM1 is well aware of. I'm also sure he would be more then happy to post the current/updated bulletin for his followers.

Experiences in the field have shown a significant increase in various drivability complaints, due to variations in fuel quality offered by different manufactures in the US. In general, the quality of gasoline is determined by many factors, with the percentage of alcohol (mainly ethanol) and the level of detergent additives becoming the key contributors. Lower levels of detergent quality and quantity may cause harmful carbon deposits to build up on vital engine components like fuel injectors, intake manifold ports and valves, and inside combustion chambers. The excessive carbon deposits eventually may reduce fuel economy, lower engine performance and may lead to various drivability complaints, e.g., misfire, rough idling and Service Engine Soon lamp illumination.
Symptoms are the following: Knocking; pinging; run-on; poor acceleration; octane requirement increase; increased emissions of NOx; and engine idle speed surges.
Depending on the manufacturer, fuels may contain various additives such as: oxidation and corrosion inhibitors; metal deactivators; emulsifiers; and anti-icing agents and dyes. In addition, they are required to include some form of an intake system deposit control package. Unfortunately, not all fuels are created equal, and some additive packages are not effective enough to maintain the integrity of the intake systems in high performance engines, or engines operating under severe environmental conditions. Even worse, the intake system deposit control additives in some fuels may actually contribute to the combustion chamber deposits accumulation, and to the problems associated with those deposits, i.e., knock, run-on and increased emissions of oxides of nitrogen.
To remedy these complaints, BMW has developed a new cleaner concentrate to clean the fuel injectors, induction system and combustion chamber of harmful deposits. This cleaner is not just poured in the fuel tank. It is administered through the injector rail at a specific pressure while the fuel pump has been disabled.
The fluids described above is the only BMW approved cleaner that can used to clean the fuel injection system, induction system and combustion chamber. Using non-approved fluids or tools can lead to premature component failure.

Part # 82 14 0 428 376 Fuel Injection & Induction System Concentrate
Part # 82 14 0 413 341 BMW Group Fuel Cleaner Plus
Approximate time allowance; (8fru = 1 labor hour)
M54/N52/N52KP/N51 10fru
E46 w/M56 SULEV 7fru
N62/N62TU 6fru
S54 6fru
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  #23  
Old 06-26-2013, 02:11 PM
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Re: Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

I guess bmw injector cleaner is the same as techron! Just different sticker lol same product different sticker higher price

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  #24  
Old 06-26-2013, 02:13 PM
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I forgot to insert that the Bulletin instructs 2 applications for the time allocated.
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  #25  
Old 06-26-2013, 02:35 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve Stem Seal, SUGGESTIONS?

That bulletin is no longer used because the method used to clean the carbon was found to be ineffective. We now use walnut shells to actually blast the carbon off manually. This method is well documented in other areas of this forum. Again.... I have never heard of either of these methods used on an N62tu/N62 intake valves or piston tops to reduce smoking tailpipes. Even the walnut blasting is used sparingly in extreme cases because the noticeable effects are minimal (that statement comes from BMW engineers/PUMA). The only before and after improvement I have seen is a smoother idle.





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