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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:30 PM
Fryeguy Fryeguy is offline
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Question Renntech vs. JB4 vs. ESS Tunes

Hello Everyone. I recently purchased a 2008 335i Convertible Sport 6A. I am interested in a tune for the car and am looking for suggestions. Does anyone know of the Renntech providing superior performance over the JB4 or ESS tunes. JB4 seems to be the best bang for the buck that I see. Any thoughts on performance mods would be greatly appreciated as well. I am thinking of this progression for performance mods. Tune, intake, meth, downpipes, exhaust, then FMIC upgrade. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:35 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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BuraQ could probably fill you in on Renntech, I don't know anyone who uses ESS... Bottom line JB4 can do everything the others can and has a massive following.

There is enough info around you could find everything else on that list.

Suspension should probably come quickly especially how easy it would be to get to 400+WHP

Last edited by SuperTerp; 04-30-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:54 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fryeguy View Post
Hello Everyone. I recently purchased a 2008 335i Convertible Sport 6A. I am interested in a tune for the car and am looking for suggestions. Does anyone know of the Renntech providing superior performance over the JB4 or ESS tunes. JB4 seems to be the best bang for the buck that I see. Any thoughts on performance mods would be greatly appreciated as well. I am thinking of this progression for performance mods. Tune, intake, meth, downpipes, exhaust, then FMIC upgrade. Thanks

Do [this] before power mods. Then, JB4 + meth, ~$1k.

Man does not fully experience 460 hp and 460 ft lb torque without having, or dearly wishing he had, modded his suspension - and you've more stock power than you think, evident when you can put it to the ground efficiently.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:58 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Man does not fully experience 460 hp and 460 ft lb torque without having, or dearly wishing he had, modded his suspension - and you've more stock power than you think, evident when you can put it to the ground efficiently.
People who understand suspension needs buy awd
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
People who understand suspension needs buy awd

But hedonists buy verts....
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:03 PM
Fryeguy Fryeguy is offline
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Completely agree with the suspension upgrades as well as brakes. Any suggestions on coil overs and Control Arms?
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Fryeguy View Post
Completely agree with the suspension upgrades as well as brakes. Any suggestions on coil overs and Control Arms?

M3 for control arms - light, stiff; delrin. And designed by BMW for your model.

Many choices for coilovers. I bought Ground Control as it comes with the M3 rear camber arms, and uses Yellows [fave] matched to Eibach Sport linear springs. You'll be hard pressed to find a limit on public roads. I like Megan rear toe arms as everyone else seems to use Heim joints, prone to wear. Megan uses the same elastomer setup M3 does. Alas, M3 arms don't fit! I don't have the full M3 rear setup as that would involve thousands more for drivetrain parts + Al rear subframe.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:10 PM
Fryeguy Fryeguy is offline
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Nice, thanks for the suggestions.
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:12 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fryeguy View Post
Completely agree with the suspension upgrades as well as brakes. Any suggestions on coil overs and Control Arms?
lol brakes would break the bank even if you go chepo with like stoptech thats like 4k+ 4k+ for for quality rims/pss tires

Last edited by SuperTerp; 04-30-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2013, 07:59 PM
BuraQ BuraQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fryeguy View Post
Hello Everyone. I recently purchased a 2008 335i Convertible Sport 6A. I am interested in a tune for the car and am looking for suggestions. Does anyone know of the Renntech providing superior performance over the JB4 or ESS tunes. JB4 seems to be the best bang for the buck that I see. Any thoughts on performance mods would be greatly appreciated as well. I am thinking of this progression for performance mods. Tune, intake, meth, downpipes, exhaust, then FMIC upgrade. Thanks
Correct, JB4 is the best bang for the buck and also the most limp mode prone tune in your list

I have yet to see one JB4 tune on my level of performance that is able to do back to back runs and not throw a trouble code. It is inevitable it will happen in your JB4 experience.

If you are willing to deal with this and the time with BMS support, then go right ahead.

So how does RENNtech match up to JB4, they are very competitive other than the RENNtech tune is much more dependable and less problematic when it comes to trouble codes being thrown

With RENNtech you will have to send them your DME, that means car being down for couple of days

If you want the best of both worlds and BEST convenience then I would say Cobb, but you would need a ProTune to get equal or better performance from what you would get with RENNtech.

I have roll raced, and drag raced with Cobb Stage 2+ Race cars and JB4 MAP 7 cars both using E85 blends and they have all been more heavily modded
__________________
AP-V3 & Cobb Protuned by PTF: (New Times Coming Soon)
RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile YouTube
Dinan Stage 3: 12.5 ET (Best) 111 Mph (Best) in 1/4 mile
400+ launches, 3 Driveshafts, No DCT Slippage, Flash Only
"BMW DCT 335is" on Facebook

Last edited by BuraQ; 05-02-2013 at 08:01 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2013, 09:10 PM
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Dwight_Schrute Dwight_Schrute is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post

I have roll raced, and drag raced with Cobb Stage 2+ Race cars and JB4 MAP 7 cars both using E85 blends and they have all been more heavily modded
Curious as to what the results of those races were?
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  #12  
Old 05-02-2013, 11:52 PM
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bear-avhistory bear-avhistory is offline
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This was posted by mdyates with 3 time slips to confirm the runs.

"After my 12.09 at 116 mph last week I was determined to break into 11's WITHOUT doing exhaust work, FMIC, LSD or upgrading tires etc.

So, last night I ran 3 consecutive 11.9's at 117 and 118 mph! No weight reduction, even left 2 child seats in again, lol Special thanks to Terry @ BMS!"

The car a 335IS 7DCT is pure stock, except for the tune, down to the OEM run flats. The 117/118mph terminal speed suggests it has good power. Car can be duplicated for about $1100/1200.
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Last edited by bear-avhistory; 05-02-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:15 AM
BuraQ BuraQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight_Schrute View Post
Curious as to what the results of those races were?

Me walking....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
This was posted by mdyates with 3 time slips to confirm the runs.

"After my 12.09 at 116 mph last week I was determined to break into 11's WITHOUT doing exhaust work, FMIC, LSD or upgrading tires etc.

So, last night I ran 3 consecutive 11.9's at 117 and 118 mph! No weight reduction, even left 2 child seats in again, lol Special thanks to Terry @ BMS!"

The car a 335IS 7DCT is pure stock, except for the tune, down to the OEM run flats. The 117/118mph terminal speed suggests it has good power. Car can be duplicated for about $1100/1200.
It is what it is, however what is not mentioned is that he had to flash with the Cobb AP in order to break into the 11s . Cobb AP + JB4 G5 = $1200+

Readers should also know he was running 18-19 PSI on an all stock 335is with negative DA, and using 100+ octane

My 11s were ran with siginificantly less boost, less timing, less octane and in positive DA
__________________
AP-V3 & Cobb Protuned by PTF: (New Times Coming Soon)
RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile YouTube
Dinan Stage 3: 12.5 ET (Best) 111 Mph (Best) in 1/4 mile
400+ launches, 3 Driveshafts, No DCT Slippage, Flash Only
"BMW DCT 335is" on Facebook
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:40 AM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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I don't track my daily driver. Not interested in street racing with or without pinks on the line. Too many innocents lives' on the line.
So the question becomes, what gives me a solid punchy street performance? No bragging rights, just "holy crap this thing hauls like a freight train! Woo Hoo!".
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Last edited by galahad05; 05-04-2013 at 11:41 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-04-2013, 01:59 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Correct, JB4 is the best bang for the buck and also the most limp mode prone tune in your list

I have yet to see one JB4 tune on my level of performance that is able to do back to back runs and not throw a trouble code. It is inevitable it will happen in your JB4 experience.

What limp mode?

Codes? Don' got no stinkin' codes....

Nope, none o'that. Then again, not that heavily modded - just JB4 + WW Meth, and don't track or drag. Wouldn't be half as good w/o suspension mods.
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  #16  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Me walking....



It is what it is, however what is not mentioned is that he had to flash with the Cobb AP in order to break into the 11s . Cobb AP + JB4 G5 = $1200+

Readers should also know he was running 18-19 PSI on an all stock 335is with negative DA, and using 100+ octane

My 11s were ran with siginificantly less boost, less timing, less octane and in positive DA

18 lb boost'll move ya.

But....can get same w/JB4 meth, no other?

DA....density altitude?

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 05-04-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-04-2013, 05:30 PM
BuraQ BuraQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
18 lb boost'll move ya.

But....can get same w/JB4 meth, no other?

DA....density altitude?

.
Yes, DA = Density Altitude
__________________
AP-V3 & Cobb Protuned by PTF: (New Times Coming Soon)
RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile YouTube
Dinan Stage 3: 12.5 ET (Best) 111 Mph (Best) in 1/4 mile
400+ launches, 3 Driveshafts, No DCT Slippage, Flash Only
"BMW DCT 335is" on Facebook
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:04 PM
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bear-avhistory bear-avhistory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Me walking....


It is what it is, however what is not mentioned is that he had to flash with the Cobb AP in order to break into the 11s . Cobb AP + JB4 G5 = $1200+

Readers should also know he was running 18-19 PSI on an all stock 335is with negative DA, and using 100+ octane

My 11s were ran with siginificantly less boost, less timing, less octane and in positive DA
What was mentioned was he had $1100 worth of gear so I will raise all the prices to MSRP for an apples to apples comparison . The JB4 W/lap top adaptor cable = $505 - COBB/AP = $900. The COBB/AP software is provided free by BMS. Since the COBB can be shared by other friends a group buy among them can drop the $1405 to even less out of pocket.

Your 11.78 second run has what hardware/software & at what cost? I made some estimates using MSRP pricing in most cases but you can post your actual cost if you would like to. Might also be interesting to list the tunes & hardware you swapped out for your current equipment list to improve on your older runs.

BuraQ ET 11.78 @ 116 Mph
mdyares ET 11.92 @ 117Mph
mdyates ET 11.97 @ 118Mph

mdyates

JB4 $505
COBB $900

BuraQ

RENNtech tuning* $1,500
aFe Stage 2 Elite intake (open cover) $795
cP-e Downpipes w/ High Flow Catts $950
Dinan FMIC $1,599
Dinan Axle Back Exhaust? $1,599
Tires Nitto? $1,100
Differential lockdown kit $ 728

Did you ever get the LSD to replace the broken differential & driveshaft or anything else I might have missed like bushing kits etc.?

Went with typical list prices for this list because anyone can buy at these prices but some like the COBB & JB4 can he purchased used or discounted by a vendor.

*in some cases (all?) you have to remove & send in your ECU.
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Last edited by bear-avhistory; 05-04-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:57 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Yes, DA = Density Altitude

How's Bear get neg DA vs yours?
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:37 PM
BuraQ BuraQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post

....Might also be interesting to list the tunes & hardware you swapped out for your current equipment list to improve on your older runs.....
$0.00 on the RENNtech tune, so its irrelevant since the objective is showing readers the choice of tune they can select from

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post

BuraQ ET 11.78 @ 116 Mph
mdyares ET 11.92 @ 117Mph
mdyates ET 11.97 @ 118Mph
Do you actually think he will do the same speed traps at my track v.v. me at his track ? I have yet to see a car do the same, its either worse or better.
  • My DA was at 182 Feet
  • His DA was at -91 Feet

Were we running the same boost and timing ? He had to run significantly more boost and timing to mitigate for the no mods but at the same time butchering he hell out of his car. Put me at his track with -91 feet DA and colder weather with 100+ octane I would for sure enough surpass those trap speeds with an even lower ET

Btw 116 mph is not my best speed traps. I have also done 117 numerous times. It is all in preference for what I am aiming for at the end of the track ET or Speed trap.

RENNtech tuning* $1,500 Nope Free

aFe Stage 2 Elite intake (open cover) $795 Nope Free, and better for our turbos, channels more dense air = turbos don't have to work so hard to meet target and to produce boost, like some hot air intakes I know of

cP-e Downpipes w/ High Flow Catts $950 Nope $400, and emission legal also

Dinan FMIC $1,599 nope $1300, swapped over from my previous E92, modified Spearco by Dinan, performance consistency proven in 90+ weather with 33+ runs on the track, and NO TIMING PULLS

Dinan Axle Back Exhaust? $1,599, nope $1200, swapped over from my previous E92, more so a cosmetic feature for the 335is and better sound, doesn't offer any better performance over the 335is stock axle back exhaust.

Tires Nitto? $1,100 - Nope, $500 after selling my original RFT's to someone who is leasing their 335is. Cheaper than run flats for sure, and ride quality is better than riding on combat boots. In the long run if you have RTF insurance plan you paid up front $500+ which only covers if you have enough thread, and if you don't you will have to pay $400+ for a new RFT tire. I get a flat, all I pay is $25 to fix it.

Differential lockdown kit $ 728, nope wayyyy off, my diff lockdown was custom built by BoostAddict from bimmerboost and E90post. There is no performance gain with this, it merely gives support to prevent breaking another diff from "wheel hop" which you WILL get at PBIR in a E92. Highly recommended for those that are track junkies like me

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Did you ever get the LSD to replace the broken differential & driveshaft or anything else I might have missed like bushing kits etc.?
Nope all replaced with original OEM under warranty. No LSD.
__________________
AP-V3 & Cobb Protuned by PTF: (New Times Coming Soon)
RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile YouTube
Dinan Stage 3: 12.5 ET (Best) 111 Mph (Best) in 1/4 mile
400+ launches, 3 Driveshafts, No DCT Slippage, Flash Only
"BMW DCT 335is" on Facebook

Last edited by BuraQ; 05-04-2013 at 10:39 PM.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:49 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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I don't understand. Are you saying that I could get all that stuff you got for free?

What is the cost of a system to someone coming into this from the cold? I thought we were talking about "no you should get (buy) this system instead of that system"?
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:06 PM
BuraQ BuraQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
How's Bear get neg DA vs yours?
Me: DA was at 182 Feet
His: DA was at -91 Feet

Me: 96 Octane
His: 100+ Octane

Me: 16-17 PSI on target
His: 18-19 PSI w/ PSI shoots to 20 PSI

Me: 10 - 11 timing (average 10)
His: 12 - 13 timing (average 12)

Here is his datalog .



Here is my datalog but taken a day or so after my track day in same weather "same shifts". I haven't even used up all the RPM band, I merely was short shifting

__________________
AP-V3 & Cobb Protuned by PTF: (New Times Coming Soon)
RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile YouTube
Dinan Stage 3: 12.5 ET (Best) 111 Mph (Best) in 1/4 mile
400+ launches, 3 Driveshafts, No DCT Slippage, Flash Only
"BMW DCT 335is" on Facebook

Last edited by BuraQ; 05-04-2013 at 11:28 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:21 PM
BuraQ BuraQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
I don't understand. Are you saying that I could get all that stuff you got for free?

What is the cost of a system to someone coming into this from the cold? I thought we were talking about "no you should get (buy) this system instead of that system"?
No, I have a relationship with those manufactures. Also, its a matter of choice and how extreme you want to go with the selection of mods. In my case I am extremely sensitive when it comes to mods on my car. Can it be done for less, of course, but I had warranty and dealer tolerance to consider which affected my choice of mods.

What bear-avhistory posted of the MSRP on the tune, intake, downpipes, FMIC is correct for most buyers. You can get similar mods for less, however quality, durability, performance, longevity and warranty does not come cheap and if it does it is more likely you will be compromising something.

If you lease then disregard all this and go the cheaper route. If your not keeping you car for long term then go the cheaper route.

My car is a build car that I am planning on keeping for years to come. This is my DD currently atm, 19-20 mpg on current tune. As on the track it performs on the street, no need to change maps

If there is another tune I would go with it would be the Cobb AP with a Protune
__________________
AP-V3 & Cobb Protuned by PTF: (New Times Coming Soon)
RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile YouTube
Dinan Stage 3: 12.5 ET (Best) 111 Mph (Best) in 1/4 mile
400+ launches, 3 Driveshafts, No DCT Slippage, Flash Only
"BMW DCT 335is" on Facebook

Last edited by BuraQ; 05-04-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:31 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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Okay thanks BuraQ, that was informative.
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:19 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Me: DA was at 182 Feet
His: DA was at -91 Feet

Me: 96 Octane
His: 100+ Octane

Me: 16-17 PSI on target
His: 18-19 PSI w/ PSI shoots to 20 PSI

Me: 10 - 11 timing (average 10)
His: 12 - 13 timing (average 12)

Poor ol' Waterboy doesn't see it - how's Bear get negative DA vs yours?

And won't window washer meth be competitive w/pump gas?
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