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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 05-06-2013, 05:32 PM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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let me down easy! 1997 540i m62b44 coolant out of plugs

Hi all after a recent triumph on my e39 530 (runs like new after3 years sub par) I decided to pick up another e39. So impulsively I found a 1997 540i on craigslist for $1900. Armed with a bentley feeling congident; the add read mechanic special needs timing chain guide tensioner. It has 130k on it and new heads. Engine clicks when running after watching many threads/you tubevideos it was timing issue.

It ran roughly but to ensure no damage I towed home and dropped oil pan looking for pieces of timing chain guide. Didnt findanybutchalked up a win when I noticed oil pump chain was loose. ( Note oil very dirty an had a bit of a burned smellto it similair to tranny fluid in burned up trans). Not all oil but some of oil deep in engine.

Tightened up chain replaced oil pan;put in new oil and filter. Ran better but tick was still there. Damn!
Took for a short ridethrew missfire code cylinder 8; multiple missfire code, and cylinder 8 misfire were retrieved. Heres the strange part while running in garage egine started to smoke passenger side followed by driverside. I observed water coming up from base of four coils. Car was running and up to operating temp.

Ive searched and not found anything on this. Ive seen stuff about wheep hole; valley gasket etc. It wasnt coolant but looked like water. Thoughts?


Here's what I believe.

I believe car overheated; previous owner had new heads put on. When started car was ticking and wanted to not put any more money in it. Im more familiar with m54 but only thing ive seen is oil in plug wells; never it bubbling up through.

This was friday when I got it; returned last night after being gone for weekend. I did oil pump change last night. I'm sure needs maf, icv cleaning and plugs coils. Just trying to get an idea how this might be happening.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2013, 06:02 PM
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Doorman Doorman is offline
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let me down easy! 1997 540i m62b44 coolant out of plugs

I'm interested to see where this goes friend!!


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  #3  
Old 05-07-2013, 06:26 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Well cleaned icv; maf; plugs are nasty and have coolant in them. Who ever did head gasket screwed it up. But the good news is ticking stopped!
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:48 PM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Plugs a mess and gas is old. Coolant in some spark plug chambers. Other than a head gasket any chance a valley pan or any other part of cooling system could cause this? System is now building pressure (cooling system) i'm going to make sure I getta good coolant flush and bleed prior to pulling heads. Any one in MD, lancaster, york pa area that could rent, loan me head locking tools?
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2013, 04:23 PM
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abanjableu abanjableu is offline
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You may want to talk to leedy automotive in York. Stand up guys...the rebuilt a motor for me a few years back.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:52 PM
edjack edjack is offline
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This is bizarre! I can think of no way for water to get into the spark plug wells, other than an overzealous engine washing. Is there any water in the oil?

The tick is probably a sludged-up lifter. esp if the oil was that filthy. Give the engine a couple of Rislone treatments.

The oil pump chain should not be tight, but have some play. The spec is 10 +/- 2 mm.

Unless the car was abused, the V8 is very robust, and there is no history of head gasket failures.

Get the cooling system pressure-tested.
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:50 PM
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did they happen to be Bosch plugs? they probably began to back out. The will make a ticking noise as air sneaks pasts the as they come loosen. It are you sure it wasnt a build up of gasoline vapor from the air sneaking past them?
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:06 PM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
This is bizarre! I can think of no way for water to get into the spark plug wells, other than an overzealous engine washing. Is there any water in the oil?

The tick is probably a sludged-up lifter. esp if the oil was that filthy. Give the engine a couple of Rislone treatments.

The oil pump chain should not be tight, but have some play. The spec is 10 +/- 2 mm.

Unless the car was abused, the V8 is very robust, and there is no history of head gasket failures.

Get the cooling system pressure-tested.

-------------------------------
Dang thank you for the reply edjack. I dont know how i missed it til now. Very good points; i've always wondered why I get a tapping on my 03 530i; i'd think its low on oil but just dirty.

I was convinced the 540i (m62) had a warn out timing chain guide due to the tapping; but the chain had 20-25mm of play. Id say it has about 10mm now.
The car only has 130K on it; and its very clean in the engine compartment.

Where do i get Rislone; I recently did a seafoam flush on my m54. Did a great job cleaning it up. Or would that be like adding atf fluid; or is it a stabilizer/cleaner you leave in for the duration? Belive it or not after only running maybe 30 minutes the fresh oil I put in is already dirty!

I need to get some pics of these injectors; very dirty. I love hearing it might not be the head gasket! My only concern is were the same gaskets reused with the new heads? Should they have been decked and weren't? Are the head studs reused instead of new? I'm ordering socket for the head tonight to check torque.



I was all about removing the head
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  #9  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:16 PM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topaz540i View Post
did they happen to be Bosch plugs? they probably began to back out. The will make a ticking noise as air sneaks pasts the as they come loosen. It are you sure it wasnt a build up of gasoline vapor from the air sneaking past them?
Wow Topaz very good call. Actually the plugs are bosch and say BMW on them. They were the originals! The plasma coils say 8/97 so they are original as well.

I'm also thinking the system wasn't bled properly. I"m going to put it back together and let it run some more; continue to check for leaks.

I'll get some pics of original oil, injectors and clean (dirty) oil with approx 5 miles and 20 minutes of ideling.

The car was missing real bad (after new plugs) so I assumed coolant in system. As i pulled a few injectors the gas smelled bad (stale/). I put approx 8 gallans fresh high test; fuel light was on. Do you also think since it sat so long tank gathered moisture? What dewaterer do you recommend? I have a new fuel filter to put on it as well; believe it or not advance auto actually had it in stock!

Very excited to get this baby running right!


Oh engine looks very oily; maybe valve cover gaskets seeped; oil level was low/super dirty which is why engine over heated. On cylinders 5-8 there was some old coolant in the plug wells. Maybe it was residual from when head went bad and they didn't fool with them. As I mentioned the original plugs were in there.
Wish ful hopefull thinking. LOL!!
get ready to cry when you see this oil!

Thanks a ton fellas!
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  #10  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:19 PM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abanjableu View Post
You may want to talk to leedy automotive in York. Stand up guys...the rebuilt a motor for me a few years back.
Thanks abanjableu; i cover york for work so i might look them up.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:43 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Some pics notice new heads.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:17 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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the other four injectors

here is how dirty the other four that just came out were. What is that crap in them oil/carbon. Probably bad maf? As i mentioned icv is spotless now. Plan on getting back together tonight/tomorrow and letting her run some to clean fuel system.
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  #13  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:12 AM
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Flybot Flybot is offline
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Interesting post.

The pics of the internals give some clue as to the way the car has been treated. The cams are reasonably clean and no sludge, indicating it has had pretty decent oil change intervals. However, an engine that has had meticulous oil changes with good oil would be almost normal metal color at 130k miles. The injectors look bad, indicating low grade gas for a long time.

In the OPs first post it mentions water coming up from the coils while running. There is only two ways that could happen- The best outcome is there was water in the spark plug hole (from and engine wash?) already, and it was bubbling up from the heat. The second and worst possibility is the head is cracked. That is the only way coolant can get there. You need to dry the spark plug area very well, run the engine to normal temp and see if you get more.

Also, it seems like if the heads were already replaced, they didnt do a very good job. New plugs and valve cover gaskets "while your there" would be a no brainer.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:03 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybot View Post
Interesting post.

The pics of the internals give some clue as to the way the car has been treated. The cams are reasonably clean and no sludge, indicating it has had pretty decent oil change intervals. However, an engine that has had meticulous oil changes with good oil would be almost normal metal color at 130k miles. The injectors look bad, indicating low grade gas for a long time.

In the OPs first post it mentions water coming up from the coils while running. There is only two ways that could happen- The best outcome is there was water in the spark plug hole (from and engine wash?) already, and it was bubbling up from the heat. The second and worst possibility is the head is cracked. That is the only way coolant can get there. You need to dry the spark plug area very well, run the engine to normal temp and see if you get more.

Also, it seems like if the heads were already replaced, they didnt do a very good job. New plugs and valve cover gaskets "while your there" would be a no brainer.
Thanks a lot for the info. I'm fearing the later but happy I have specific things to attack!

Ill keep pics coming. Better head cracked than block though right?
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:59 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Fearing the worst case scenario I put in a call to bav auto recycling. They told me don't sellm62 heads Cruz they will never mate properly. This true? Although 975 + 495 shipping for whole motor didn't sound bad and with a 2 year warranty. He claims its easier to do a motor swap than do heads. Is all this true? My only concern is having to end up doing timing chain guide rails on replacement motor. Keeping my fingers crossed as I put this back together.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:48 AM
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How would they never mate properly? That doesn't sound right. An engine swap would only be easier if you have all the right tools, like a hoist and stand. Arse pain either way.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:51 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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That's why I posted the question didn't sound right. Trying to up sell people.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:16 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Okay all back together and running alot smoother than it was. That gas was so nasty there was probably water among other things that shot past the bosch plugs. I let it warm up to temp/didn't over heat but system is building a ton of pressure. I was worried at first because exhaust was very full of mosture; thankfully that went away. Unlike the Range Rover classic in my driveway thats drinking coolant.

So system is pressurizing bigtime; almost feels like coolant is boiling in return hose. Again its 215am and the goal was to get it back together and start it. I need to begin trouble shooting cooling system. As I said its building alot of pressure; it doesn't smell like exhaust in coolant (like my range rover) It smells steamy; hot and steamy.

So didn't overheat; but built a ton of boiling pressure in system. I realize there is a proper way to bleed cooling system but I feel there is something more. The plugs in this car were original, the plasma coils are as well; and the fuel filter I just changed was too. So I'm guessing most of the cooling system probably is too.

Speak and I shall listen! Thanks
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:10 AM
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Perhaps

The impeller on the water pump separated what caused the original overheat condition. The guy treated the symptoms rather than cause...so he wound up throwing $ at it. Our cooling systems are inherently weak...just maybe?
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:14 AM
timarnold timarnold is offline
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There really are only about 3 reasons for excess cooling system pressure:
1) System is running excessively high temperatures because of a bad thermostat/other flow restriction
2) Cooling system is overfilled and the system overpressurizes as the antifreeze expands
3) Exhaust is pumping into the cooling system through a crack or leak in the heads or block

Unfortunately, option #3 will pressurize the system fastest at the lowest temperatures to the highest pressures. I doubt everyone would agree, but I would strongly consider throwing in a can of Bars Leak 1111 or equivalent & see if the problem stops. If it does, you just then have to make a decision to do something else about it or wait for the problem to come back.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:14 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSXRYDER View Post
The impeller on the water pump separated what caused the original overheat condition. The guy treated the symptoms rather than cause...so he wound up throwing $ at it. Our cooling systems are inherently weak...just maybe?
Definitely plan on checking it!! Thanks
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:21 AM
lovett9565 lovett9565 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timarnold View Post
There really are only about 3 reasons for excess cooling system pressure:
1) System is running excessively high temperatures because of a bad thermostat/other flow restriction
2) Cooling system is overfilled and the system overpressurizes as the antifreeze expands
3) Exhaust is pumping into the cooling system through a crack or leak in the heads or block

Unfortunately, option #3 will pressurize the system fastest at the lowest temperatures to the highest pressures. I doubt everyone would agree, but I would strongly consider throwing in a can of Bars Leak 1111 or equivalent & see if the problem stops. If it does, you just then have to make a decision to do something else about it or wait for the problem to come back.
Thanks Tim and I fear #3 because of pressure no over heat. I am open to bars leaks. There was a thread somewhere guy in tx took great pics oftiming chain guides replacement and head gasket replacement. It was an m62 motor; it was done right but sure enough after all that was done it had a small leak; guy ended up putting in bars leaks and it worked for him.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:28 AM
timarnold timarnold is offline
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I did exactly that on an M54 motor in October. 6 months & 15k miles, zero problems.
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