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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #51  
Old 06-07-2013, 04:30 AM
grimma grimma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
Guys, after the post from maxxym, I monitored my rpm via the hidden menu today on a long 1.5hour drive. Everytime I stopped, the engine would vibrate and the rpm would fluctuate between 648-663. I was stopped at couple of red lights and I put the car in Parking, the engine vibration calms down, but the rpm is still fluctuating between 648-665. So is the idle rpm really the cause?

Maxxym, did the paper work from the dealership mentions any other work?
I have exatcly the same readings on my hidden menu. exatcly the same symptom as you kskane. I didn't tryed yet CPS sensors but could it be something with autobox? we have both automatic transmission?
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  #52  
Old 06-07-2013, 10:36 AM
daswagking daswagking is offline
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Engine Vibration - Is it serious?!

Sea foam? Always does the trick for me!


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  #53  
Old 06-07-2013, 04:48 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimma View Post
I have exatcly the same readings on my hidden menu. exatcly the same symptom as you kskane. I didn't tryed yet CPS sensors but could it be something with autobox? we have both automatic transmission?
Is there a way to test this CPS sensor via INPA or any other scan tool? Shouldn't the CPS sensor throw a code if it is faulty?

Grimma, have you checked the transmission oil level?

Last edited by kskane; 06-09-2013 at 02:54 AM.
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  #54  
Old 06-09-2013, 08:43 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
... I monitored my rpm via the hidden menu today on a long 1.5hour drive. Everytime I stopped, the engine would vibrate and the rpm would fluctuate between 648-663. I was stopped at couple of red lights and I put the car in Parking, the engine vibration calms down, but the rpm is still fluctuating between 648-665. So is the idle rpm really the cause?
I monitored my rpm via the hidden menu again yesterday and I found this, the idle RPM fluctuates between 648-663, BUT, when I shift to N or P, the engine idle RPM fluctuation goes up to 695 from 660, the car vibration is gone and then the idle returns back to the same i.e. 648-663. On the other hand if I shift from N or P to D or R, the engine idle RPM fluctuation goes down to as low as 605, the engine starts vibrating and then the idle returns back to the same i.e. 648-663. So upon shifting the gears the idle jumps 40-50 RPM up or down from 660 and then comes back to the same, so I am really confused why N or P would calm the car down?

Also, please share any thoughts on how to check the AC compression level?

Lastly, all the people experiencing this issue, have you checked your transmission oil level recently and is it correct?
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  #55  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:39 AM
NathO NathO is offline
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Quote:
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Elaborate?
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  #56  
Old 06-12-2013, 07:53 AM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Any further updates guys? Any of you having the issue already, tried the RPM increase with the $tealer? I am looking into INPA for engine adaptation reset, but not 100% sure yet.
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  #57  
Old 06-12-2013, 07:57 AM
maxxym maxxym is offline
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I have about 700 miles trip coming up next week, during which I will fuel up with different gasoline....just want to see if I can get it any smoother.

But for me, it's MUCH better from what it was before.
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  #58  
Old 06-12-2013, 08:08 AM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxym View Post
I have about 700 miles trip coming up next week, during which I will fuel up with different gasoline....just want to see if I can get it any smoother.

But for me, it's MUCH better from what it was before.
Maxxym, so basically engine idle rpm increase to 750ish actually did not eliminate the vibration?
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  #59  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:16 AM
maxxym maxxym is offline
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Vibration to the steering wheel... correct... it did NOT eliminate it. It did eliminate the "cabin" vibration. It's so hard to explain.

Before my whole car was vibrating...now, it's nice and quiet, but when I put my hands on the steering wheel, I can feel the vibration.

Like I said, I will use different gas and see if that helps on my long trip next week, but my e39 was very smooth. I couldn't even tell if the engine was running.
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  #60  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:55 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Some update from me on this issue so far, two people have confirmed that increasing engine idle to 750 has helped and in my persuasion to attempt and code the engine idle RPM myself, I am stumbled upon something strange from INPA. Under Engine->Status->Analog->MWB1, I see "Engine speed" and "LLR normal RPM", they differ by 20rpm i.e. Engin speed sits on 640rpm and LLR normal RPM is 660. From what I understand by changing gears and driving around, "Engine Speed" is what is running and "LLR normal RPM" is what the car is codded to behave in that condition. When the difference between these two go really high say 40-50RPM the car starts to get the $hits and shakes/vibrates etc

Image attached, can any of the owners who have this problem got INPA functional and can verify this symptom please? And, does anyone know if the above theory is correct and how to fix the difference? Is this a software or a mechanical fault.

P.S. Since "LLR normal RPM" sits at 660 and that is what the hidden menu display as well, I believe the BMW recommended RPM for M54 engine should be 660 at normal idle at normal temprature i.e. 93F (in-line with the thermostat). And then this number changes according to the condition of the car and the ECU keep monitoring the engine and the programmed number accordingly.
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  #61  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:15 AM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
Some update from me on this issue so far, two people have confirmed that increasing engine idle to 750 has helped and in my persuasion to attempt and code the engine idle RPM myself, I am stumbled upon something strange from INPA. Under Engine->Status->Analog->MWB1, I see "Engine speed" and "LLR normal RPM", they differ by 20rpm i.e. Engin speed sits on 640rpm and LLR normal RPM is 660. From what I understand by changing gears and driving around, "Engine Speed" is what is running and "LLR normal RPM" is what the car is codded to behave in that condition. When the difference between these two go really high say 40-50RPM the car starts to get the $hits and shakes/vibrates etc

Image attached, can any of the owners who have this problem got INPA functional and can verify this symptom please? And, does anyone know if the above theory is correct and how to fix the difference? Is this a software or a mechanical fault.

P.S. Since "LLR normal RPM" sits at 660 and that is what the hidden menu display as well, I believe the BMW recommended RPM for M54 engine should be 660 at normal idle at normal temprature i.e. 93F (in-line with the thermostat). And then this number changes according to the condition of the car and the ECU keep monitoring the engine and the programmed number accordingly.

Just had 100K drive and I monitored the engine via INPA and observed that the "Engine Speed" is the current RPM which reflected how heavy my foot was on the pedal, but while the Engine speed is fluctuating between 2000-4000K, the "LLR Normal RPM" would fluctuate only between 710-725 rpm. So I am not sure what is the relation between these two. And when I was stopped, randomly I observed vibration in the engine and sometime not, either times the INPA Engine speed was showing 640 RPM where and the "LLR Normal RPM" was sitting on 660 RPM.

Does any one know what the LLR Normal RPM means?

Also, vibration or no vibration, the Engine speed sits on 640RPM and the "LLR Normal RPM" was sits on 660 RPM. So is this problem really related to software and engine RPM at all or something else?

Any help is welcome.
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  #62  
Old 06-17-2013, 06:41 AM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Any other update on this issue? Or any other owners having this issue?

Margal, grimma, Cali Buk, Nath0, dolfan13, Jesuslopez, mkarner79, maxxym - Any improvements or updates, please share.

One of my friends here has suggested to code the car for increased RPM when AC is on, I have not figured out how to recode the car yet, but working on it.
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  #63  
Old 06-17-2013, 07:38 AM
NathO NathO is offline
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No updates.... I've just learnt to live with it lol... until its next service i'll bring it up with my indy
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  #64  
Old 06-17-2013, 08:03 AM
grimma grimma is offline
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Oh I am sorry I was on holidays! I bought software and cable from BMTechnic and will try to install it. I had installed new windows on my laptop and by the end of the week will install INPA and DIS ! So i will try to do some live tests. But i am short on time so when I am done I will post.

Keep tryin guys this is very good thred!
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  #65  
Old 06-17-2013, 08:20 AM
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dolfan13 dolfan13 is offline
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I'm still shaky idle.im going to do some vacuum leak checks next.
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  #66  
Old 06-18-2013, 12:50 AM
Cali Buk Cali Buk is offline
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Please take me off the engine vibration club!!!
I'll post details later...just got back from vacations and picked up my car this afternoon from the dealership.
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Last edited by Cali Buk; 06-18-2013 at 12:51 AM.
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  #67  
Old 06-18-2013, 06:40 AM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Buk View Post
Please take me off the engine vibration club!!!
I'll post details later...just got back from vacations and picked up my car this afternoon from the dealership.
Cali Buk, I look forward to see what the dealer did to fix your problem, if it is fixed. Post whenever you are ready.

Everyone else, please share any idea or directions that might help this issue, as it seems to me it could be common E60 problem (could be wrong) with age.
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  #68  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:35 AM
Cali Buk Cali Buk is offline
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I took my car in to dealership for brake fluid change. I mentioned to SA vibration at idle and low RPMs. I asked can you raise RPMs at idle just a bit, I've noticed that once you step on gas and RPMs go up vibration stops. He said they cannot just raise the RPMs, there's a whole lot of things they must check first because CEL light was not on. (Another dealer had told me vibration was normal and not to worry until a CEL light came on just FYi).

Side note: they also found a faulty sleeve on tranny ($1100). Luckily covered by CPO so only $50 deductible. Lucky considering I didn't even know the car had CPO warranty when I bought it used, 6 weeks ago.

So I pick up the car and the vibration is gone. The SA said that it was a calibration problem. Guess what, the idle RPMs have been raised. It idles at little higher now and vibration is gone.

This is what the receipt says:

"1199 recalibrated air/fuel 6884 CR 0.60 $95.33"

I hope this is clear...I'm posting from my phone.
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  #69  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:42 AM
Cali Buk Cali Buk is offline
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My car is a 2008 528 and has 78k miles btw

My CPO is up in September and I'm looking to buy Route 66 extended warranty, specially after this tranny sleeve scare.
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  #70  
Old 06-18-2013, 12:03 PM
SlvrBmr545 SlvrBmr545 is offline
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Glad to hear .
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  #71  
Old 06-18-2013, 04:49 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Buk View Post
I took my car in to dealership for brake fluid change. I mentioned to SA vibration at idle and low RPMs. I asked can you raise RPMs at idle just a bit, I've noticed that once you step on gas and RPMs go up vibration stops. He said they cannot just raise the RPMs, there's a whole lot of things they must check first because CEL light was not on. (Another dealer had told me vibration was normal and not to worry until a CEL light came on just FYi).

Side note: they also found a faulty sleeve on tranny ($1100). Luckily covered by CPO so only $50 deductible. Lucky considering I didn't even know the car had CPO warranty when I bought it used, 6 weeks ago.

So I pick up the car and the vibration is gone. The SA said that it was a calibration problem. Guess what, the idle RPMs have been raised. It idles at little higher now and vibration is gone.

This is what the receipt says:

"1199 recalibrated air/fuel 6884 CR 0.60 $95.33"

I hope this is clear...I'm posting from my phone.
Thanks Cali Buk, this is of great help.

Anyone here know if this calibration can be done via DIS? or INPA? or Tool32? I am going to call my $tealer and check what they say.
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  #72  
Old 06-18-2013, 10:43 PM
grimma grimma is offline
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Recalibration ? I have never hear of this? Is this posible with M54 engines?
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  #73  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:00 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimma View Post
Is this posible with M54 engines?
I am starting to believe with BMW anything is possible, not sure why they had to complicate a simple car so much at times.

Back to this problem, I digged around a bit more into INPA after the valuable feedback from Cali Buk and what the $tealer has mentioned on his reciept and I believe I found a section where the Engine Idle can be adjust (image attached 1st) but I don't know how to do it.

Also, while digging I discovered a lovely test in INPA which seems like it give you the control of shutting one cylinder at time but I am not sure what one would achieve by it (image attached 2nd).

As for calibration, all I found was that the fuel injectors needs to be coded to the car, but not sure about calibration of the fuel injectors. But does the M54 E60 has the fuel injectors that require coding or is it only the newer E60 that need that, I am not even sure on that.

Hopefully some experts might be able to shed some light here.
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  #74  
Old 07-03-2013, 04:34 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Update on this issue after a little more research but I am not sure yet. What I would like to ask from all the E60 owners with this problem is - What is the condition of your MAF Sensor? How many K's on the car and has the MAF Sensor ever been changed?
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  #75  
Old 07-03-2013, 10:32 PM
grimma grimma is offline
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My car have 165000 km.( I dont know how many miles this corespond). I have never changed MAF. But I cleaned it 3000 km before. Before cleaning this flactuations have started to apear only when engine is hot. After cleaning it hapens from the begining. Also I found out that on our cars E60 M54 MAF have 5 wires which includes Intake Air Temperature. Also I noticed when temperature is colder engine works sometimes without this flactuation issue! I guess normally. But if out side is hot I have flactuations. This is very much temperature affected? I know it sounds crazy but that is my opinion. Also this weekend i will do intake vacuum tests to find out is there any vacuum leaks. I want to pressurise my intake manifold with lets say 5 psi and duck tape exhaust pipes and tube before MAF I want to check it useing his method. and also I found out in INPA EDIABAS there is live data for intake and exhaust cams angle in given moment of time and the requested DME values. If the difference is big between them than the Vanos seals are shot. I will post back my results.
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