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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 05-08-2013, 01:04 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Hey you....Manual Transmission jockey

For those who don't know, here's a video detailing how a manual transmission works, including what syncros are and how they work their magic:


Trans Video
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
For those who don't know, here's a video detailing how a manual transmission works, including what syncros are and how they work their magic:


Trans Video
All well and good, but how does the transmission in my avatar work?
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
All well and good, but how does the transmission in my avatar work?

I clicked on it hoping for a larger image, but all I saw was a bullet holed "No Shooting" sign.


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Old 05-08-2013, 02:40 PM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
All well and good, but how does the transmission in my avatar work?
Ooh! Ooh! I know!




(OK, OK, I cheated--I have a copy of the test answer key. )
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  #5  
Old 05-08-2013, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
For those who don't know, here's a video detailing how a manual transmission works, including what syncros are and how they work their magic:
Here's a question that'll get you an A+ on the exam if you can answer it correctly.
Did you ever notice that when you're moving in reverse there is a whirring noise from the transmission that you don't hear in any forward gear? This is odd considering that first and reverse are very closely related in gear ratio. Why then should only reverse whir?
If you pay close attention to what he is saying beginning around 7:50 and look closely at the gears you will get an idea. FYI at one time they were all like this and yes, they whirred in all gears, but they were still quieter than horses.
Look closely at the gears in my avatar and you will see they all look like reverse gears even though there are four forward speeds. Why? Anyone want to venture a guess?

Last edited by DSXMachina; 05-08-2013 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Here's a question that'll get you an A+ on the exam if you can answer it correctly.
Did you ever notice that when you're moving in reverse there is a whirring noise from the transmission that you don't hear in any forward gear? This is odd considering that first and reverse are very closely related in gear ratio. Why then should only reverse whir?
If you pay close attention to what he is saying beginning around 7:50 and look closely at the gears you will get an idea. FYI at one time they were all like this and yes, they whirred in all gears, but they were still quieter than horses.
Look closely at the gears in my avatar and you will see they all look like reverse gears even though there are four forward speeds. Why? Anyone want to venture a guess?
OK, in answer to the question :"did you ever notice that when you're moving in reverse there is a whirring from the transmission..." The answer is, YES.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
For those who don't know, here's a video detailing how a manual transmission works, including what syncros are and how they work their magic:


Trans Video
OK, "Dr. Tranny," a bone for the left footers in here. How about 'Lesson 2' showing the marvels of the Steptronic...with the "set-it-and-forget-it" type shifting?
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:35 PM
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boramkiv boramkiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Here's a question that'll get you an A+ on the exam if you can answer it correctly.
Did you ever notice that when you're moving in reverse there is a whirring noise from the transmission that you don't hear in any forward gear? This is odd considering that first and reverse are very closely related in gear ratio. Why then should only reverse whir?
If you pay close attention to what he is saying beginning around 7:50 and look closely at the gears you will get an idea. FYI at one time they were all like this and yes, they whirred in all gears, but they were still quieter than horses.
Look closely at the gears in my avatar and you will see they all look like reverse gears even though there are four forward speeds. Why? Anyone want to venture a guess?
The idler gear for reverse is not helical for a smooth entry exit point, but spur like and that's what makes the noise?
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
For those who don't know, here's a video detailing how a manual transmission works, including what syncros are and how they work their magic:
1) Very cool to see it bench top. My first introduction to how a manual transmission works, was when my dad had the 3 speed transmission of his 1929 Packard on the bench top. It was much more a lesson about the clutch though.

2) Poor guy giving the lecture, I wanted to hand him a Ricola cough drop!

3) Seeing how the synchro rings work now explains why they called the transmissions in old VW Bugs, "synchro-smash" gear boxes.

Thanks for posting this!

ps: DSX: I have a pretty good guess about the "whirring" phenomenon.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Here's a question that'll get you an A+ on the exam if you can answer it correctly.
Did you ever notice that when you're moving in reverse there is a whirring noise from the transmission that you don't hear in any forward gear? This is odd considering that first and reverse are very closely related in gear ratio. Why then should only reverse whir?
If you pay close attention to what he is saying beginning around 7:50 and look closely at the gears you will get an idea. FYI at one time they were all like this and yes, they whirred in all gears, but they were still quieter than horses.
Look closely at the gears in my avatar and you will see they all look like reverse gears even though there are four forward speeds. Why? Anyone want to venture a guess?

Y'mean straight cut gears?
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  #11  
Old 05-08-2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
OK, "Dr. Tranny," a bone for the left footers in here. How about 'Lesson 2' showing the marvels of the Steptronic...with the "set-it-and-forget-it" type shifting?

You task me, P&G....you task me....take a peek at this....scroll down to rebuilds! There might be more than that to see in Post #1....

Didn't vet for E9x steps, but the fundamentals apply to nearly all non-DCT boxes.

More:



Auto Teardown

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 05-08-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
OK, in answer to the question :"did you ever notice that when you're moving in reverse there is a whirring from the transmission..." The answer is, YES.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
The idler gear for reverse is not helical for a smooth entry exit point, but spur like and that's what makes the noise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Y'mean straight cut gears?
Correctomundo. At one time they didn't have the tooling to make helical (angled tooth) gears. The teeth were cut straight across and the gears were called spur gears. Helical gears cost lots more but they are quieter and srtonger for two reasons; more tooth is in contact with adjacent teeth at any one time, and the teeth engage progressively rather than 'slapping' into each other like on a spur gear.
Now, why are all the forward gears in my avatar spur gears, including those on the bevel gear for the two reverse speeds?
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:57 PM
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Some cars did whir a LOT louder than others. I remember a 1986 Chevrolet Sprint my step mom had, I stayed out of trouble at home sometimes because I could hear her reversing up the hill in that thing.
Had time enough time to shut off the video game, and go grab a book well before she walked in the house.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
You task me, P&G....you task me....take a peek at this....scroll down to rebuilds! There might be more than that to see in Post #1....

Didn't vet for E9x steps, but the fundamentals apply to nearly all non-DCT boxes.

More:



Auto Teardown
Toyota Corolla tear down! Not funny! At least you could have found a good GM site! As I scrolled through the other link, this came to my attention: "274K...running like a dream."

A credible link for Steptronic?
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2013, 06:21 PM
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1)Thanks for posting this!

I bow to your niceness.

Ummmmm....still got that Packard?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:23 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
Toyota Corolla tear down! Not funny! At least you could have found a good GM site! As I scrolled through the other link, this came to my attention: "274K...running like a dream."

A credible link for Steptronic?

CREDIBLE! Did you check every link?

Easy to understand Auto Tranny 101:





For BMW Step:




.


----------> The whole 9 yards.

.


.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 05-08-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2013, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
I bow to your niceness.

Ummmmm....still got that Packard?
Point in fact, no.

It was a 1929 "Opera" Coupe. Took 2nd place in its class at the 1996 Pebble Beach Concour's de Elegance! (self vs professional restoration if that means anything to you)

He traded it a few years back for a '35 Packard convertible coupe to a guy who took it to the Barrett Jackson auction in Scottsdale and it sold for something like $265K

He is finishing up a 1934 Packard Dietrich Victoria. The car is awesome.

Now you understand why I have a thing for Cabrios.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
Point in fact, no.

It was a 1929 "Opera" Coupe. Took 2nd place in its class at the 1996 Pebble Beach Concour's de Elegance! (self vs professional restoration if that means anything to you)

He traded it a few years back for a '35 Packard convertible coupe to a guy who took it to the Barrett Jackson auction in Scottsdale and it sold for something like $265K

He is finishing up a 1934 Packard Dietrich Victoria. The car is awesome.

Now you understand why I have a thing for Cabrios.
Your dad has a Packard 'vert? Wicked awesome.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:52 PM
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Your dad has a Packard 'vert? Wicked awesome.
In point of fact, TWO!

okay enough OT. back to gear boxes!
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Now, why are all the forward gears in my avatar spur gears, including those on the bevel gear for the two reverse speeds?
My guess is, it's because it's a transmission from a tractor or other piece of heavy equipment.

The two reverse gears supports that claim. I've never seen a vehicle with two reverses, but high and low reverse make perfect sense for a tractor.

Frederic
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
In point of fact, TWO!

okay enough OT. back to gear boxes!
I got away with using Packard and 'vert in the same sentence!

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Originally Posted by TXFred View Post
My guess is, it's because it's a transmission from a tractor or other piece of heavy equipment.

The two reverse gears supports that claim. I've never seen a vehicle with two reverses, but high and low reverse make perfect sense for a tractor.

Frederic
Close enough. It's the transmission from my early 80's Toro snowblower. Who cares if the transmission whines, you can't hear anything but the 13 HP engine anyway. I let someone use it and they thought maybe it would be a good idea to shift from reverse to forward without benefit of stopping first. Not a good idea, stripped a couple gears.
After a nationwide search I found a company in Texas who had the gears in stock. Fortunately the same gearbox is/was used in some golf carts and they're still popular in the South.
All snowblowers nowadays use a CVT with a belt clamped between two variable diameter pulleys. I also have a new 12 horse Ariens with a CVT. Can't really say it's worse than the old Toro, but there's something I like about having real steel transmitting torque.
Oh there is one thing that's better. My friend couldn't thave stripped out the gears going from reverse to forward...
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
I got away with using Packard and 'vert in the same sentence!
Semantics!
Cabrio ist Deutsche. As far as I know Packard never referred to their ragtops as Cabrios, but adhered to the American terminology of Convertible.

No infraction points for you tonight!
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:35 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
All snowblowers nowadays use a CVT with a belt clamped between two variable diameter pulleys.
CVT's are great for machines that have fairly constant power/torque requirements, like snow blowers or other non-transportation devices.


They are droning nightmares in cars. Some are programed to mimic multiple gear transmissions which pretty much defeats the whole purpose of a CVT.

I drove a Subaru with a CVT and it was like driving a car with a slipping transmission. Very weird feeling to have the engine jump to 3,500 rpm and just stay there while the car lurched and slipped in vague response to the throttle.

Can't say I liked it much.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:19 AM
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I got away with using Packard and 'vert in the same sentence!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
Semantics!
No infraction points for you tonight!
You're a softy, we can get away with anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
[snip]
They are droning nightmares in cars. Some are programed to mimic multiple gear transmissions which pretty much defeats the whole purpose of a CVT.

I drove a Subaru with a CVT and it was like driving a car with a slipping transmission. Very weird feeling to have the engine jump to 3,500 rpm and just stay there while the car lurched and slipped in vague response to the throttle.

Can't say I liked it much.
When I first heard of CVTs being used in cars I kind of laughed to myself thinking they'd never hold up. They've done well. Every year it seems they have to handle more torque and they've done so reliably. It seems the magic number right now is around 200/200 hp and tq.
CVTs are perfect for maximizing mpg, find the efficiency sweet spot and park the rpm's right there. The thing is, as you point out, that it violates every sense of automotive 'rightness' for those who can drive. Watch for it on the next generation F30, they've already started to turn it into a mechanical marshmallow with the electric steering. Why not go all the way?
I can just hear The Beej now "Reader's Digest, Sierra Club Monthly, and the Eunuch's Guide to Living Well all voted the 2014 F30 the 'Best Car in the Whole wide World', the 335i didn't even make the top 100!" I will be so glad to know that.

Cal, how about posting a CVT video?
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:07 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
CVT's are great for machines that have fairly constant power/torque requirements, like snow blowers or other non-transportation devices.


They are droning nightmares in cars. Some are programed to mimic multiple gear transmissions which pretty much defeats the whole purpose of a CVT.

I drove a Subaru with a CVT and it was like driving a car with a slipping transmission. Very weird feeling to have the engine jump to 3,500 rpm and just stay there while the car lurched and slipped in vague response to the throttle.

Can't say I liked it much.

Solution: Silence the engine/transmission and devote engineering to creaminess. If feedback wanted, sound system.

Needs to handle 500 ft lb for pleasure.
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