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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 05-17-2013, 07:39 AM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
So can ASS be permanently disabled or does it always turn on?
It can be permanently turned off or it can be set so it remembers your last setting, like the M cars do. I don't believe dealers will agree to permanently turn it off, but they will set it to remember your last setting. You can do that once under warranty, no charge.
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  #27  
Old 05-17-2013, 07:45 AM
skierrob skierrob is offline
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I asked my local dealer about turning it off at the time of purchase. The service manager informed me that he has to get approval from BMW to do that work, and that BMW denied the request for the past five people he has asked for. In all cases, he stated, BMW said they wanted them to drive the vehicle for at least 10,000 miles with the feature on before they would consider a request to turn it off. Am I hearing a bunch of lies from this dealer?
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2013, 07:55 AM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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I asked my local dealer about turning it off at the time of purchase. The service manager informed me that he has to get approval from BMW to do that work, and that BMW denied the request for the past five people he has asked for. In all cases, he stated, BMW said they wanted them to drive the vehicle for at least 10,000 miles with the feature on before they would consider a request to turn it off. Am I hearing a bunch of lies from this dealer?
Yes, you are. Here's the thing, it is handled under warranty. The warranty doesn't begin until you take delivery. So they can't do it under warranty before you pick it up. But you can schedule for the next day and they'll do it. Show them the SIB document, which you can look up with Google.

Or, better yet, head to a different dealer if you have that option.
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  #29  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:07 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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I asked my local dealer about turning it off at the time of purchase. The service manager informed me that he has to get approval from BMW to do that work, and that BMW denied the request for the past five people he has asked for. In all cases, he stated, BMW said they wanted them to drive the vehicle for at least 10,000 miles with the feature on before they would consider a request to turn it off. Am I hearing a bunch of lies from this dealer?
I asked my dealer to set it to "last state" after I had the car for 2 days, and they did not hassle me at all. I bought the car Mid April, here in San Diego.

I wonder if BMW is getting SO many of these requests, they are in danger of losing whatever eco credits / emissions credits they are attempting to hit by having this feature on the vehicle?

Like dippydo mentioned, right in the manual it tells you that the auto start / stop feature may increase wear and tear on certain components. I dont have the manual in front of me but thats basically what it said.

Either the dealer is lying, or BMW is in some danger of losing something by saying "yes" to re coding this. its the only reason they would hassle anyone about it....
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  #30  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:28 PM
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Link to the SIB article
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=636783
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  #31  
Old 05-17-2013, 02:01 PM
Dippydo Dippydo is offline
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Originally Posted by skierrob View Post
I asked my local dealer about turning it off at the time of purchase. The service manager informed me that he has to get approval from BMW to do that work, and that BMW denied the request for the past five people he has asked for. In all cases, he stated, BMW said they wanted them to drive the vehicle for at least 10,000 miles with the feature on before they would consider a request to turn it off. Am I hearing a bunch of lies from this dealer?
Your dealer is FOS. I just bought mine 3 weeks ago and called them up 2 days ago to tell them I hated it and wanted it turned off unless I turn it on. Said no problem and scheduled the appointment. Just as others pointed out, BMW sent out a press release stated this is now an option to turn off. Take that letter with you if you are getting any issues.
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  #32  
Old 05-18-2013, 10:31 AM
MinnesotaVegans MinnesotaVegans is offline
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Originally Posted by skierrob View Post
I asked my local dealer about turning it off at the time of purchase. The service manager informed me that he has to get approval from BMW to do that work, and that BMW denied the request for the past five people he has asked for. In all cases, he stated, BMW said they wanted them to drive the vehicle for at least 10,000 miles with the feature on before they would consider a request to turn it off. Am I hearing a bunch of lies from this dealer?
I solved it. I got a manual transmission. The ASS defaults to on. The engine has shut off twice in 500 miles. Both times in a car wash, where I used to shut the engine off myself. At traffic lights, the engine stays on because the clutch pedal is depressed in anxious anticipation of the green light.

For me, the nuisance is remembering to turn on Sport Mode and Cruise Control every time I start the engine.
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  #33  
Old 05-19-2013, 03:45 AM
Jack in Jax Jack in Jax is offline
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BMW should fix their ASS

Once again it's been shown a majority of climate scientists (97% this time) agree that humans are warming the planet. (We (the public) are split 50/50. Why? We'd rather not change our preconceived beliefs.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...else/?hpid=z10

BMW consistently is criticized for having one of the most abrupt & bothersome ASS systems. That's what BMW should be addressing.
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  #34  
Old 05-19-2013, 04:28 AM
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ASS is going to get someone killed. Hesitations when crossing traffic from a dead stop. Cars turning themselves 'on' in attached garages.

Just you wait and see.

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  #35  
Old 05-19-2013, 04:18 PM
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Once again, complete nonsense.

ASS has been used in many countries for years, including by BMW. If legions were dying we would all know.

The mere fact you are scared of ASS does not make if dangerous.
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  #36  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:23 PM
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Once again, complete nonsense.

ASS has been used in many countries for years, including by BMW. If legions were dying we would all know.

The mere fact you are scared of ASS does not make if dangerous.
In United States, ASS is brand-new. Only the tree hugging Toyota Prius owners have ever heard of the thing. The forums already are filled with a handful of stories from very early F30 owners on confusion over ASS functionality.

There are people who pull into the garage, put the car in park, and think the car has turned off when in reality it is in autostart stop mode. At some juncture as they are leaving the garage the car turns itself back on and runs until the fuel supply has exhausted. That has happened, it has been reported at least on three instances.

There are people who find their cars unexpectedly stalling when ASS has kicked in and they are unaware, try restarting the car and getting warnings.

There are people feeling uncomfortable when in a complete stop about to make a left turn across four lanes of 60 mph traffic that the car will actually restart in their window to make it across.

There are people who find that their cars cannot be driven out of carwashes because attendants are attempting to drive the car forward with the door open.

There are many things related and unrelated to ASS and how the F30 functions that can cause confusion to drivers at inopportune times. Almost all of them in the name of saving a few pennies a week in gas or a tiny bit of pollution into the air. It's not worth the risk. The technology may work but BMW's execution is lacking.

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  #37  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:27 PM
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To the extent any of this is true, all of these scenarios have long been tested in other markets - such as BMW's many year use of ASS in Europe.

People are not, and have not, been dying as a result of auto stop/start systems.

P.S. The Prius is not the only other car with such a system in the U.S. other than BMW.
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:36 PM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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In my opinion, there are better ways to achieve the fuel savings of ASS, but they require policy changes rather than individual car manufacturers putting in more gadgets.

We could prevent unnecessary stops entirely by moving away from traffic lights and towards traffic circles (or roundabouts as they're called in Europe). There's a lot of fuel wasted in the suburbs of metropolitan US with traffic lights stopping major roads to let 2-3 cars in from grocery stores or Costcos. A traffic circle would self-regulate so that cars could keep flowing through albeit at a lower speed. I lived in the UK for some years and found that traffic circles work well in light to moderate traffic flow; less so in heavy flow because everyone is impeded. But they would definitely work well in our suburban areas. You wouldn't be stopping every few tenths of a mile.

A little urban planning would go a long way to keep traffic flowing smoothly. Do we really need the kind of massive sprawl we seem to take for granted? My fellow Northern Virginians will shudder at the mention of two feared words in this area: Tysons Corner. Really? Can't we do better to keep traffic moving smoothly by spacing out malls and furniture stores and car dealers and office buildings and medical complexes and who knows what so everything isn't all piled up into a 5-mile stretch of pure traffic hell?

Well, I'll pack up my soapbox now and head to dinner. Thanks for reading.

Last edited by HokieXDriver; 05-19-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:51 PM
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in my area there are quite a few roundabouts are build in last three years and are continuing to grow, there used to very long line due to single lane roads not anymore, the flow is smooth no traffic jam, I used to avoid those area now no problems. with most cities strapped for cash i don;t see it happening in old cities, may be for new development with open mind it is still possible.
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  #40  
Old 05-20-2013, 12:18 AM
Markus_OS Markus_OS is offline
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ASS makes only sense in heavy city driving, from traffic light to traffic light. And how good it works depends to some requirements, like: outside temps (AC needed or not, heating needed or not, seatheating on or not), heated rear window on or not and so on.
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  #41  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
To the extent any of this is true, all of these scenarios have long been tested in other markets - such as BMW's many year use of ASS in Europe.

People are not, and have not, been dying as a result of auto stop/start systems.

P.S. The Prius is not the only other car with such a system in the U.S. other than BMW.
You cannot compare ASS on Prius vs BMW. Prius will run on battery power, your BMW does not have that option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieXDriver View Post
In my opinion, there are better ways to achieve the fuel savings of ASS, but they require policy changes rather than individual car manufacturers putting in more gadgets.

We could prevent unnecessary stops entirely by moving away from traffic lights and towards traffic circles (or roundabouts as they're called in Europe). There's a lot of fuel wasted in the suburbs of metropolitan US with traffic lights stopping major roads to let 2-3 cars in from grocery stores or Costcos. A traffic circle would self-regulate so that cars could keep flowing through albeit at a lower speed. I lived in the UK for some years and found that traffic circles work well in light to moderate traffic flow; less so in heavy flow because everyone is impeded. But they would definitely work well in our suburban areas. You wouldn't be stopping every few tenths of a mile.

A little urban planning would go a long way to keep traffic flowing smoothly. Do we really need the kind of massive sprawl we seem to take for granted? My fellow Northern Virginians will shudder at the mention of two feared words in this area: Tysons Corner. Really? Can't we do better to keep traffic moving smoothly by spacing out malls and furniture stores and car dealers and office buildings and medical complexes and who knows what so everything isn't all piled up into a 5-mile stretch of pure traffic hell?

Well, I'll pack up my soapbox now and head to dinner. Thanks for reading.
1) That would require massive amounts of money in re-planning/building
2) American drivers are not responsible enough to handle the decision making of "do i jump into the round-about, or wait for the person already in the round-about to pass"

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Originally Posted by Markus_OS View Post
ASS makes only sense in heavy city driving, from traffic light to traffic light. And how good it works depends to some requirements, like: outside temps (AC needed or not, heating needed or not, seatheating on or not), heated rear window on or not and so on.
Problem is your car cannot know where you are. Where I found it to be the worst is coming off an exit ramp, and merging into another highway. Definitely a spot where I don't want any lag in my 0-60.
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  #42  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:25 AM
everettpa1 everettpa1 is offline
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I'm pretty sure what he said was a joke. Either way, there's a difference between global warming and climate change. Global warming, I think, is a bad term. Climate change is a lot more accurate.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that climate change is taking place. Just in the last 10-15 years, the climate in San Diego has changed drastically. Ten years ago it was simply unimaginable to see 110 degree days in the summer or below freezing nights in the winter. This is San Diego after all, the city with "perfect weather", and it's been like this...basically as long as anyone can remember. Well, not anymore. Every summer seems to be hotter than the last, and every winter colder. That's why "climate change" is a much better term. Because what we're seeing isn't just a warming of the planet. It's an overall change in climate patterns.

Maybe it's not as noticeable in other places in the US or the world, but in the place with "perfect weather" it's very obvious. Because it's most definitely not as perfect as it was a decade ago, and I'm not talking about a couple degrees. I'm talking about a major difference.

P.S. San Diego is still the best place. It's just not 75 degrees year round anymore.
A couple comments:

1. Who says what the right temperature is for the planet? Who makes that decision?
2. Climate change has always happened. It always has and always will. It is more convenient to use this label since all bad weather can now be blamed on man made emissions. Global warming didn't sell in the winter either.
3. There has never been definitive proof that man's contribution to climate change (if it is occuring) outweighs natural changes.
4. And there are no definitive cost/benefit studies to say that the climate benefit of everybody saving say 2MPG is worth the cost to do so. This is my biggest problem with all of this. There are millions and millions of costs being spent to improve something that may or may not be materially contributing to a problem that has not been linked to the supoosed bad behavior in the first place.
5. So in the end people get green because it feels good even though it is likely not really helping at all.
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  #43  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:48 AM
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A couple comments:
1. Who says what the right temperature is for the planet? Who makes that decision?
Scientists. They look at historical trends, that span thousands of years. They can do this through various methods, and yes you will need to speak to a climatologist, or do some research to get specifics. The only people who are "confused" if global warming is occurring are those with a financial interest in keeping the status quo and those that believe them but refuse to do their own fact finding. Put it this way, if I have a questions about science I don't ask my local politician, I find information in journals. Even ones that write in layman language will suffice.

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2. Climate change has always happened. It always has and always will. It is more convenient to use this label since all bad weather can now be blamed on man made emissions. Global warming didn't sell in the winter either.
Don't confuse short term weather changes or spike weather changes (e.g., today is the hottest day in recorded history) to long term trends. Yes the Earth goes through cycles, and prior to us it would take ridiculous amounts of time (tens of thousands of years) for the earth to go through significant weather change (with exception of disasters like meteor strikes). We are changing the climate at an expedited rate. Again, you don't have to believe it. The nice thing about science is that it does not care about our beliefs.

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3. There has never been definitive proof that man's contribution to climate change (if it is occuring) outweighs natural changes.
Sure there has. Google it. No I won't do it for you. Frankly, I doubt you would believe me even if I linked 10 different, non-partisan, and reputable science foundations. It's like big tobacco not believing that cigarettes cause lung cancer

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Originally Posted by everettpa1 View Post
4. And there are no definitive cost/benefit studies to say that the climate benefit of everybody saving say 2MPG is worth the cost to do so. This is my biggest problem with all of this. There are millions and millions of costs being spent to improve something that may or may not be materially contributing to a problem that has not been linked to the supoosed bad behavior in the first place.
Again, there are clear benefits that show this. It's also not just about saving 2MPG, but also natural resources. 2MPG may be nothing, but multiply that over time and the amount of people driving and you will find that 2MPG is a lot of fuel and a lot of emissions. Look at it from a financial stand-point. If your car gets 50 MPG you will spend less money at the fuel pump. Would you like to spend more or less money at the fuel pump?

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Originally Posted by everettpa1 View Post
5. So in the end people get green because it feels good even though it is likely not really helping at all.
False. You are welcome to write whatever you like, but to list 4 opinions and then come to a conclusion of fact is pure fallacy. It's not even remotely close to science.

I read once somewhere (i'll paraphrase since I don't remember the exact line) -> "So what would be the bad thing about us being incorrect about climate change if we end up making the world a better place anyhow?". Think about it. Assuming we are wrong about climate change, let's see what we do know if we reduce fuel consumption/emissions:
1) Better MPG = longer lasting natural resources. Less spending to fill your tank
2) Lower Emissions = Lower health risks due to harmful chemicals in the air. Look at China, Utah, LA....they have some of the worst air quality in the world. This isn't caused naturally, by the earth, it's caused by factories and cars.

Again, even if we are wrong about climate control, why not solve the above two issues, or at least reduce them?
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  #44  
Old 05-20-2013, 11:00 AM
everettpa1 everettpa1 is offline
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Again, even if we are wrong about climate control, why not solve the above two issues, or at least reduce them?
Because it is making buying a car so much more expensive and more importantly less fun. That is enough for me.

You are the typical green person. Why not do it? Because it costs a lot of resources and we dont know if man's contributions are making the difference.
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  #45  
Old 05-20-2013, 11:10 AM
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Because it is making buying a car so much more expensive and more importantly less fun. That is enough for me.

You are the typical green person. Why not do it? Because it costs a lot of resources and we dont know if man's contributions are making the difference.
1) Car companies are making the experience more expensive because they can. A number of years ago, when they were talking about cars getting about 30MPG, some group came out with a car (they tweaked one) getting 80 some MPG. If they can do it why can't the "pros"

2) You think a green car is not fun? Ever driven a Tesla. Go test drive one, then come back hat in hand

3) You clearly do not know me if you think I am the "typical green person". Then again, your statements are based around a lot of assumptions, this is no different

4) We DO know that mans contributions are making a difference. We know some of it is inevitable and will happen, but we also know that we can do a better job at mitigating some of it.

5) We DO know that emissions cause health issues...to you, to me, to our children and grand-children. I don't know if you are a parent, or plan to ever be a parent...or maybe an uncle/aunt, but show some concern for them over the concern of your lifestyle of "less fun". BTW, I just spent a week doing ED...had lots of fun, despite ASS being a poorly implemented tool. Found myself constantly switching between Sport and Eco-pro mode (sport for the fun driving, eco-pro for bumper-bumper traffic).

With your mind-set we would still be in the days of getting 14mpg on the high end. Gas would be a lot more scarce and a LOT more expensive. I'm pretty sure my 2013 BMW is just as fun as that 1960s muscle car
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  #46  
Old 05-20-2013, 01:22 PM
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You cannot compare ASS on Prius vs BMW. Prius will run on battery power, your BMW does not have that option.
Mine does. Apples to apples, the AH3 (hybrid) compares well to the Prius (hybrid) in ASS. Both are very smooth and perfectly integrated. The only difference is that the Prius is starting a tiny motor with very low rotating mass in the crank, etc. The AH3 is spinning up the same N55 I6 that the 335i has. Despite this, it is smooth and absolutely unnoticeable in almost every instance.

Of course, this is just based on 4 extensive test drives as I pick up my AH3 this Friday at the PC.

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  #47  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by everettpa1 View Post
A couple comments:

1. Who says what the right temperature is for the planet? Who makes that decision?
2. Climate change has always happened. It always has and always will. It is more convenient to use this label since all bad weather can now be blamed on man made emissions. Global warming didn't sell in the winter either.
3. There has never been definitive proof that man's contribution to climate change (if it is occuring) outweighs natural changes.
4. And there are no definitive cost/benefit studies to say that the climate benefit of everybody saving say 2MPG is worth the cost to do so. This is my biggest problem with all of this. There are millions and millions of costs being spent to improve something that may or may not be materially contributing to a problem that has not been linked to the supoosed bad behavior in the first place.
5. So in the end people get green because it feels good even though it is likely not really helping at all.
1. - Scientific study is used to help scientists figure out which temperature range is ideal for sea levels, for food sustainability, for extreme weather events, and etc. Would you prefer that Glenn Beck decide it?

2. - Climate change has never happened this fast and to this extreme a level. What is the ONLY difference this time around? This is the first time that humans have been dumping billions of tons of chemicals into the air around the world. It would only be surprising if that DIDN'T have a major effect.

3. - 99.84% of peer reviewed studies of climate change show through evidence that climate change is real, is a real threat, and is anthropogenic. 0.16% were studies that had evidence to the contrary in their studies. I once saw a pie chart on this where the black part of the pie represented the percentage of studies that show anthropogenic climate change and the tiny razor-thin sliver of red at the top represented the percentage of those that did not. If 99.84% of experts in ANY field tell you something, you would be well advised to get on that side of the argument. I am a professional pilot by trade. I would venture to say that 99.84% or more of professional pilots would tell you that the nose of their plane heats up quite a bit due to friction at speed. What you are doing here is siding with the 0.16% who say that they don't think it does.

4. - There are no cost/benefit studies on this? On which planet do you live? At least google the things you spout before spouting them in public. Otherwise you risk everyone thinking you are a buffoon, a fate I believe has happened here on this board.

5. - While not as completely green as I could be (I drive a fast and fun 3-series, not a bicycle), I choose to do the things that I do because I want to leave the world a better place for the next generation and further down the line. When faced with a simple choice of trying to make the world a better place or crapping all over it with no regard for intelligent care of the environment, guess which one I will choose? I don't do it because it makes me feel good. I do it simply because it is the right and intelligent thing to do, nothing more.

Tim
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:10 PM
Avpilot Avpilot is offline
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Oh, and I forgot to mention this little morsel.

2012 was the hottest year on record for the contiguous United States. Not only that, but the last 12 years were ALL included on a recent list of the 13 hottest years in recorded history. We have now had 27 consecutive years of above average and accelerating ocean temperatures. Do you know how unlikely that is statistically if climate change is not real? And don't even get me started on the hottest months in history. That's an even better story. Google it; I'm not going to do it for you this time.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:50 AM
csi csi is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Once again, complete nonsense.

ASS has been used in many countries for years, including by BMW. If legions were dying we would all know.

The mere fact you are scared of ASS does not make if dangerous.
I have to agree with this. I have lived in Asia and Europe for extended time, so I have driven lots of cars with similar start-stop feature.

It is now actually completely unnatural to me to drive any car that continue to run even when it is not moving. It sorts of feel like having a machine gun that continue to shot out bullets even if you aren't squeezing the trigger, or a washing machine that continue to spin when you are loading and unloading it.

Having to run the engine when the car is not moving is not a "feature". It is a limitation of the design. I am surprise how many people hold on to this "feature" even it serves no purpose at all.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:06 AM
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furby076 furby076 is online now
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Originally Posted by csi View Post
I have to agree with this. I have lived in Asia and Europe for extended time, so I have driven lots of cars with similar start-stop feature.

It is now actually completely unnatural to me to drive any car that continue to run even when it is not moving. It sorts of feel like having a machine gun that continue to shot out bullets even if you aren't squeezing the trigger, or a washing machine that continue to spin when you are loading and unloading it.

Having to run the engine when the car is not moving is not a "feature". It is a limitation of the design. I am surprise how many people hold on to this "feature" even it serves no purpose at all.
Offcourse it's a feature. Just because you have had this for a while does not make it a feature. Automatic transmission is a feature. By the manufacturers own writing this feature reduces the lifetime of certain components of your engine (presumably starter). It can also be annoying at times, especially in stop-n-go traffic (the kind where you stop for a second or two, then drive on). In NY, Philly, DC and other such areas I could see the engine being turned off and on 10 times from one light to the next - easy. That damages the car...for what kind of savings?
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I agree with furby
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Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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