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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #26  
Old 05-16-2013, 08:13 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
So you're supposed to rest your hands on the bottom of the steering wheel?

Does the steering wheel turn on its own when on autopilot (as seen with auto parking) or does it remain straight until you assume control?
Yes. I think it is designed that way so that you can have your arm resting, and not held up at the 9 and 3 positions, which would become tiring. It also supports both those who are left and right handed. The steering wheel turns by itself. So the car basically drives itself at urban speeds in traffic. One of the reasons they have the need for the hand on the steering wheel isn't a technical limitation - it's more a safety and legal limitation. Otherwise the car may be banned in many countries, since self driving cars are not mainstream legal.
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  #27  
Old 05-16-2013, 08:21 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Yes. I think it is designed that way so that you can have your arm resting, and not held up at the 9 and 3 positions, which would become tiring. It also supports both those who are left and right handed. The steering wheel turns by itself. So the car basically drives itself at urban speeds in traffic. One of the reasons they have the need for the hand on the steering wheel isn't a technical limitation - it's more a safety and legal limitation. Otherwise the car may be banned in many countries, since self driving cars are not mainstream legal.
Thanks, Chris.

Can you point us to an article / press release that discusses this in detail?

Very interesting!
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  #28  
Old 05-16-2013, 08:50 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
Can you point us to an article / press release that discusses this in detail?
Here are some results on preliminary information and journalist reviews - http://www.google.com/search?q=merce...ddress&ie=&oe=

I think it's going to be a little underwhelming, as the first gen of almost any technology is (think Hybrids, self parking, ABS, DSC). But it's an important step in the right direction. My desire is that it allows cars to be safer and make driving less strenuous. There are definitely times after a long day that I don't relish a long drive in traffic.

The most interesting thing for me personally of the new S, is the Magic Carpet. Putting on my auto enthusiast hat, the nice thing about the car is it seems like there's something for everyone to be WOW'd by it. Broaden the appeal of the car, without losing the faithful. This is good for BMW lovers as well, since competition pushes the bar forward.
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Last edited by chrischeung; 05-16-2013 at 09:38 AM.
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:47 AM
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I must and will give props where they are due! This vehicle right here is "changing the game". The technology is marvelous (and how often do you hear that word?)

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  #30  
Old 05-16-2013, 11:56 AM
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Doktorek Doktorek is offline
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
Can you elaborate? Think I feel same about BMW.
I used to be the owner of an S class back in 2008. I got the car Brand new. I paid over $100K for the car. Besides the fact that car visited dealer pretty often for things failing all the time, at some point in time (after 2 or 3 years) I had a situation where dealer/mechanic broke something on the car while the car was in service for a something that failed. They didnt want to fix it what they broke in house. I gave them 3 months to maybe swap the broken part with a part from a lease return since they didnt want to cover that out of their pocket. Still nothing. No response from the dealer. So I took it all the way up to President of MBAUSA. After a lot of aggravation, MBUSA just 'brushed me off' saying that "THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH DEALERSHIPS". What dealerships do is their own business. They are private entities. Headquarters has NO CONTROL about what is going on at the dealership, they cant tell owners to do anything.

I was shocked by the MBUSA president's response. Trust me, it wasnt easy to get to the president. I managed to get his private email and email him directly.

So it doesnt matter to mercedes if you driver an S class or some lowest line of Mercedes brand - Mercedes benz of USA doesnt care about repeat clients, customers or dealerships they sell cars at.

There is NO customer service there at all.

From what I read here on the forum, people that complained to BMWNA, got great response. Even exchanging lemons. Good luck with that when you have a Mercedes.

But I was glad I switched to BMW, because there is at least 10 things that I like better on the BMW over a Mercedes. Main down fall on the S class was a 2 sec delay on the acceleration. All S-class cars have that issue. If you want to change lanes quickly or squeeze into fast moving lane - you have to press the pedal 2 sec and then the car will downshift and starts moving. For 2 sec there is no response from the car when you floor it. What a PITTA. Only the AMG model didnt have that issue.
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  #31  
Old 05-16-2013, 12:30 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by Doktorek View Post
They didnt want to fix it what they broke in house. I gave them 3 months to maybe swap the broken part with a part from a lease return since they didnt want to cover that out of their pocket. Still nothing. No response from the dealer.
Any reason why you didn't file a small claim against the dealership?
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  #32  
Old 05-16-2013, 01:00 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is online now
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Thanks for the detail, Doktorek. Unfortunately, I've become jaded in the opposite direction. Truth of the matter is that it's too bad any of us are at all anyway, having been enthusiastic about one brand or another previously.

As far as buybacks go, a lot of it has to do with differences in state law, and while you may see some relief found on these boards, I believe the majority of those who obtain same are outside New York.

Otherwise, I've conferred with some attorneys and all have said they've seen Mercedes and Audi handle problems better when push comes to shove, where BMW goes as far as continued denial of what should be warranty work, stating owners need file insurance claims, only for owners to do so and for their insurance companies to deny coverage, stating same should be covered under warranty...! :|

Last edited by dbs600; 05-16-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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  #33  
Old 05-16-2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Any reason why you didn't file a small claim against the dealership?
Going to court over a $500 headrest - not worth it. It was a matter of principal. They broke it - they should have fixed it. I sold the car with a broken headrest. I left enough mess for the dealership. Thanks to me a lot of neighberhood people/businesses know about their practices. And Im very good with internet. So they got a lot of bad feedbacks for good 12 months ( one per month). I made sure that people all over www know about the dealership practices.

My last move was to put them on TV- local news. But I said - screw it.

As long as I kill their sales - Im satisfied.

But none of this justifies the fact that headquarters doesnt care about repeat clientele of high end cars. So I learned a lot with this experience.
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Last edited by Doktorek; 05-16-2013 at 06:17 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:36 PM
JD5150 JD5150 is offline
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Speaking of differences in class, I test drove a 2013 A8 tonight....holy toledo! I went straight from that car into a 2013 750i and the interiors are like night and day! The A8 is plush, luxurious, the screen pops up with a resolution that seems 10x the BMW's screen, the seats massage and heat and cool and massage again....it's a coccoon. There's more room in the 750i front seats but the seats themselves are spartan. Not many adjustments to be made comparatively.

Now driving the two was a totally different experience....love the 750i and the A8 was meh....and the exterior is subjective but to me nothing comes close to the BMW...

I may wait to see and drive a new S-class......and I may not!
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  #35  
Old 05-17-2013, 07:29 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by JD5150 View Post
I went straight from that car into a 2013 750i and the interiors are like night and day! The A8 is plush, luxurious, the screen pops up with a resolution that seems 10x the BMW's screen, the seats massage and heat and cool and massage again....it's a coccoon.
We need to be careful not to expect something that the 7 series is not. BMW is trying to create a luxurious large BMW interior, not an Audi interior. If they wanted to, they could - look at Rolls Royce. They could just rip that off and put it in the 7. But that's not what BMW is about. Could they do better - definitely. Should they do the same - probably not. Each car manufacturer has it's own identity that they need to use as a baseline. Good news is that I think they are heading in the right direction. Witness the interior of the Gran Coupe - gorgeous and still a BMW.

Regarding the Benz, that's not ideal either. The long instrument cluster/dash looks like it was lifted out of a 70s GM car. There's nothing Benz like about it.
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  #36  
Old 05-17-2013, 07:59 AM
JD5150 JD5150 is offline
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So true Chris! I knew there was a relationship with Rolls Royce and BMW but I didn't know how close it was! Sales rep told me it's the same chassis as the Ghost! I never thought about what you said and you're right - if they wanted a plush, luxurious interior they certainly have the pedigree to do it - but that's not what they are about.

Excellent points!
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  #37  
Old 05-17-2013, 09:17 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Going SOT, one thing I wish BMW would rip off Benz (and every other manufacturer should do so as well), is the position of the seat controls on the door.
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  #38  
Old 05-17-2013, 11:55 AM
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^so are such things patented? LIke why doesn't other cars have hUD? patents?
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  #39  
Old 05-17-2013, 02:58 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Order guide for those interested (includes some option pricing) - http://mbworld.org/forums/new-s-clas...der-guide.html

There's no price for the car itself. Perhaps it's free and you just pay for the options?
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  #40  
Old 05-17-2013, 07:52 PM
AdamG13 AdamG13 is offline
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Not seeing anything on the autonomous driving, either in that guide or in their advertisement video. Maybe it won't be released in NA right away? Rest of the option packages seem reasonably priced. Only thing that really stood out was the $6500 stereo and the $12.5k ceramic brake package for the S63! Saw an SLS in the area with that ceramic brake setup and you could notice it from a block away. Most massive brake calipers I'd ever seen.
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  #41  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:00 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by AdamG13 View Post
Not seeing anything on the autonomous driving, either in that guide or in their advertisement video. Maybe it won't be released in NA right away?
You missed it. It's at the 2 minute mark in the video above. And it's optionally available. It's called DISTRONIC PLUS with Steering Assist.

Here's another video.

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Last edited by chrischeung; 05-17-2013 at 10:46 PM.
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  #42  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:19 PM
Wolfman64 Wolfman64 is offline
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Order guide for those interested (includes some option pricing) - http://mbworld.org/forums/new-s-clas...der-guide.html

There's no price for the car itself. Perhaps it's free and you just pay for the options?
I expect the base to come in at least $95k-$105k (our SL was $10k base over the last model). Since it makes sense to get a lot of the options, I'd say that $125k will be what you'll find standing at the dealer.

I am really looking forward to seeing/driving this in the flesh
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  #43  
Old 05-18-2013, 06:29 AM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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Originally Posted by JD5150 View Post
So true Chris! I knew there was a relationship with Rolls Royce and BMW but I didn't know how close it was! Sales rep told me it's the same chassis as the Ghost! I never thought about what you said and you're right - if they wanted a plush, luxurious interior they certainly have the pedigree to do it - but that's not what they are about.

Excellent points!
The Ghost rides on a 7 series chassis, its not like we are getting RR hardware (dont think I would actually want a RR chassis anyway)- but salesman love to say its a RR chassis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by light1 View Post
^so are such things patented? LIke why doesn't other cars have hUD? patents?
Corvettes have had HUDs since the 90's. I don't know why other companies don't have them, they are very useful at night. During the day they are a total waste of money- I can't see the readout with my polarized sunglasses.

Back on topic- I'm not sold on the dashboard- but the tech looks amazing. Unfortunately you will need to spend 20k on extras to get all of it. The exterior is ok, the front looks too C class to me but the back isn't bad. We will have to see it in person. I can't wait to see the suspension....
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  #44  
Old 05-18-2013, 11:29 AM
Wolfman64 Wolfman64 is offline
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Originally Posted by Emilner View Post
The Ghost rides on a 7 series chassis, its not like we are getting RR hardware (dont think I would actually want a RR chassis anyway)- but salesman love to say its a RR chassis...



Corvettes have had HUDs since the 90's. I don't know why other companies don't have them, they are very useful at night. During the day they are a total waste of money- I can't see the readout with my polarized sunglasses.

Back on topic- I'm not sold on the dashboard- but the tech looks amazing. Unfortunately you will need to spend 20k on extras to get all of it. The exterior is ok, the front looks too C class to me but the back isn't bad. We will have to see it in person. I can't wait to see the suspension....
It's interesting that there are many comments on the boards re. the dashboard even though it really is only a minor evolution over the old one which was also a dual monitor setup with digital gauges...
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  #45  
Old 05-18-2013, 12:37 PM
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It's interesting that there are many comments on the boards re. the dashboard even though it really is only a minor evolution over the old one which was also a dual monitor setup with digital gauges...
I'm more referring to the dash board, not the instrument cluster. The big round vents are way too retro in a 21st century S class.
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  #46  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:18 PM
Wolfman64 Wolfman64 is offline
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I misunderstood your comment. Makes sense and Have to see it in real life myself.
On our SL they have put the same retro vents as in the 70's SL models, just in aluminum. Look great, work great.





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  #47  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:31 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is online now
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So no word on MSRP yet?
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  #48  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:16 PM
AdamG13 AdamG13 is offline
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I misunderstood your comment. Makes sense and Have to see it in real life myself.
On our SL they have put the same retro vents as in the 70's SL models, just in aluminum. Look great, work great.

Had something like that in an Explorer I owned. I liked the way they delivered the air over the typical rectangular slates found in most cars.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
You missed it. It's at the 2 minute mark in the video above. And it's optionally available. It's called DISTRONIC PLUS with Steering Assist.

Here's another video.

Ah ok thanks.
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  #49  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:55 PM
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hello, i am new here and from germany

i can only say that i think that the new s-class is a very nice car and probably the best car in
his sums of features.

but this car doesnt make my 2010 7s not look or feel old.

i appreciate my HUD, my active steering rear axis, my drive by wire steering...

i like the elegant and sporty shape of the dash board (oyster/black)...

TBH i think that the new s-class has some really nice features such as the magic body control or the great massage seats... but thats really all for me

the rest of the features has nearly seen everywhere or is just a further development.

i mean parfume dispenser... cool i do that manually and i can change every time i want the smell...
ASSIST ? PRESAFE? i got that radar system in my 7s... and it does nearly the same and i still dont trust the technique even though it saved my life when it was passively guarding me.

have u ever driven the 7s with that drive by wire steering and went back to the s-class?
its like you forgot to learn how to drive...

its great to have competition and this keeps BMW improving... and i keep lookin forward to the next 7s gen -

im curious if BMW brings out that gesture idrive or that iphone ui to the idrive... where u can control blind the system and it tracks the position of your fingers infront of a touch field through a cam.
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  #50  
Old 05-18-2013, 06:06 PM
Wolfman64 Wolfman64 is offline
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2014 S-Class Unveiled.....meh

BMW's steering and road feel was historically superior to Mercedes' comfort oriented suspension/steering.

That was also MB's goal but somewhere those two 2 brands crossed over, perhaps 4 or so years ago?

Now MB seems to sport better steering feel/accuracy and dare one say, road feel?

I for one find the steering of the 7 more numb than MB. Can't judge the impact of rear steering as I don't have that feature.



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