Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-19-2013, 10:06 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Cray
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,684
Mein Auto: Porsche Macan S / SD Pack
Oh, and are the side mirrors a different shape/design? Seems to be the same yet with LED strips?
__________________
2015 Porsche Macan S / SportDesign: White/Black (Alcantara/Leather), PDK, 20" RS Spyder's w/ Colored Crests & Summer Tires, Air Suspension w/ PASM, High-Gloss Black Trim, Premium Package, Comfort Lighting, HD Radio, Blacked Out Sidemarkers, Front Tints.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Premium/Tech, Sport Auto, etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport". '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-19-2013, 10:17 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York, NY
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,422
Mein Auto: 2011 750LXi Individual
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I think what the F10's taillights are doing are basically getting the original F01 style taillights.
Not sure what you mean; both the pre- and post-facelift F01/02 rear lamps have 2.5 bars...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	78.7 KB
ID:	377543  

Last edited by dbs600; 05-19-2013 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-19-2013, 10:21 PM
markl53's Avatar
markl53 markl53 is online now
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,492
Mein Auto: 2011 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Yeah, I hate the names and the whole "line" options now. Completely unnecessary.

On the F30, the modern line has the hideous all beige interior.
+1, per my previous reply. This is how they got 328i's close to $50K average. Artificially boosts pricing by further enveloping options and charging 2K for the line itself, not to mention natural base price increases. Disappointing, not exciting, to me.
__________________
BMW-CCA
Bimmerfest Supporting Member



2014 535i Individual | Azurite Black/Amaro Brown Merino | Premium | Cold | PDC | Rear Camera | Anthracite Hdr
Prior: 2011 535i AT | Black Sapphire/Cinnamon | Premium | Heated Sts | Nav | Sirius | Anthracite Hdr & Trim
Prior: 2008 335i 6MT Sedan | Black Sapphire/Terra Leather | Premium | Cold | CA | OEM Alarm
Prior: 2005 330i 6MT | Black Sapphire/Sand Leather | Premium | Cold | UGO | OEM Alarm

Last edited by markl53; 05-19-2013 at 10:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-19-2013, 11:23 PM
Madjackdog Madjackdog is offline
Registered User
Location: Spring Valley/San Diego, Ca
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 49
Mein Auto: Accord/Tundra/Soon BMW
Damnit! I was going to scoop up one of the '13's when they blew them out, but now, seeing the dark brown leather, and the side bolsters, it looks as if I'll be getting a '14. Damn those Bavarian Puppet-Masters!!
__________________
Alan L.
Future BMW owner
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-19-2013, 11:59 PM
Dallas550 Dallas550 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 357
Mein Auto: 2011 550i, 2014 X3 28i
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
+1, per my previous reply. This is how they got 328i's close to $50K average. Artificially boosts pricing by further enveloping options and charging 2K for the line itself, not to mention natural base price increases. Disappointing, not exciting, to me.
Completely agree. It's also going to throw off the standard resale values since you're going to further complicate the situation with multiple versions of the F10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjackdog View Post
Damnit! I was going to scoop up one of the '13's when they blew them out, but now, seeing the dark brown leather, and the side bolsters, it looks as if I'll be getting a '14. Damn those Bavarian Puppet-Masters!!
Just make sure they have the brown interior with the line you want!

I'm debating whether to make a last minute push for a 2013 or accept the changes and go with the newest thing. I can always make up the lost hp by tuning the 2013. Decisions, decisions...
__________________
2014 X3 28i
2011 550i
2012 535i - Retired
2008 528i - Retired
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-20-2013, 12:36 AM
Sonicendeavor's Avatar
Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 918
Mein Auto: 2014 535i MSport
Here's a more detailed press release (need to click on the 'Show Press Release' button after starting the video).
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/05/19/t...-a-new-diesel/
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:02 AM
LukeS's Avatar
LukeS LukeS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 346
Mein Auto: 2013 535ix M-sport
2014 5 Series Unveiled with 2 Diesel Models

I would say 550 get a my14, 528 or 535 get a my13 and save a boat load especially if getting the msport. The exterior mods are so subtle that without the led option you won't really tell the difference. If n63tu delivers 545hp and better fuel efficiency, that's worth the extra bucks alone. If I was in the market today, i would get a my14 550 msport. The 535d is worth a test drive too. Personally, I still think the non-msport prelci exterior seems more "suit and tie" then this new version (ie not as elegant). Although the interior is a different matter.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:25 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Cray
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,684
Mein Auto: Porsche Macan S / SD Pack
The interior's is a nice refinement of an already beautiful interior, pretty much making it as close to "perfect" as I can think an interior can get. However, to most people, they would never be able to tell a difference. The flattened aluminum type trim acting as the button to the center console which used to have a flat plastic button that sits raised up is a nice and a improvement, and I personally like the aluminum/chrome trim surrounding the screen which is one of those things I would have never imagined needed any improvements.... until I see it and now look at my screen wondering "is it missing that trim"? Funny how that happens. The iDrive knob is obviously another thing which is not a big deal to me, though I do like the idea of being able to "write in" Navi guidance (very tedious to type words or numbers via iDrive knob.... my Merc's had those dial buttons on the COMAND interface which sure were kind of ugly or dated however were very functional when typing in numbers).

IMO the exterior as has been said can go either way.... very subtle changes, some can like them or dislike them as I don't see any except for the LED headlight technology to be objective "improvements".... though the interior little enhancements are clearly upgrades, though very slight and subtle as well.

I think this is one of the most "dignified" facelifts to come out in a long time. I just came from an E-Class who's facelift literally got me to get rid of my car and the brand due to how Mercedes treated the pre-facelift and those who entrusted a long-lasting design. Now I JUST got a new 5-Series and have EVERY reason to be bitter about and hate the fact that I missed a facelift by about 6-7 months.... however absolutely think it's a great facelift all the way to how it treats the pre-facelift.
__________________
2015 Porsche Macan S / SportDesign: White/Black (Alcantara/Leather), PDK, 20" RS Spyder's w/ Colored Crests & Summer Tires, Air Suspension w/ PASM, High-Gloss Black Trim, Premium Package, Comfort Lighting, HD Radio, Blacked Out Sidemarkers, Front Tints.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Premium/Tech, Sport Auto, etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport". '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:29 AM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cricket City
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,686
Mein Auto: E70 & F04
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
The interior's is a nice refinement of an already beautiful interior, pretty much making it as close to "perfect" as I can think an interior can get. However, to most people, they would never be able to tell a difference. The flattened aluminum type trim acting as the button to the center console which used to have a flat plastic button that sits raised up is a nice and a improvement, and I personally like the aluminum/chrome trim surrounding the screen which is one of those things I would have never imagined needed any improvements.... until I see it and now look at my screen wondering "is it missing that trim"? Funny how that happens. The iDrive knob is obviously another thing which is not a big deal to me, though I do like the idea of being able to "write in" Navi guidance (very tedious to type words or numbers via iDrive knob.... my Merc's had those dial buttons on the COMAND interface which sure were kind of ugly or dated however were very functional when typing in numbers).

IMO the exterior as has been said can go either way.... very subtle changes, some can like them or dislike them as I don't see any except for the LED headlight technology to be objective "improvements".... though the interior little enhancements are clearly upgrades, though very slight and subtle as well.

I think this is one of the most "dignified" facelifts to come out in a long time. I just came from an E-Class who's facelift literally got me to get rid of my car and the brand due to how Mercedes treated the pre-facelift and those who entrusted a long-lasting design. Now I JUST got a new 5-Series and have EVERY reason to be bitter about and hate the fact that I missed a facelift by about 6-7 months.... however absolutely think it's a great facelift all the way to how it treats the pre-facelift.

Well I don't think you should be upset, you got your car for a great deal! If the 2014 diesel doesn't have the throttle delay and infact has that new wonderful ambient lighting... that may be my next car. Hopefully they will have an ECO Credit on it too lol.
__________________
2008 Mercedes-Benz CLS550 Iridium Silver/Black Leather -- P2/321/881 (leasetraded 1/10)
2002 BMW 325i --Topaz Blue/Natural Brown Leather --SP/PP/HK/CWP/Bi-xenon (Sold 9/06)
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:33 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Cray
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,684
Mein Auto: Porsche Macan S / SD Pack
Though to note, one thing that would make me very jealous is if they indeed did *ADD* ambient lighting to the facelifts interior. Can anybody clarify that? I don't care about the different colors, just curious if there's *additional* ambient lighting added. Perhaps the only thing I miss from my E Class was the added ambient lighting to the interior.... though I had almond interior trim on that car with lighter Burl Walnut wood compared to my all black interior and dark Anthracite wood on the F10, which might play a role into why my F10's interior feels quite "dark" at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
Well I don't think you should be upset, you got your car for a great deal! If the 2014 diesel doesn't have the throttle delay and infact has that new wonderful ambient lighting... that may be my next car. Hopefully they will have an ECO Credit on it too lol.
Very true, can't forget about that! Haha. Thanks to you!

Just saw your post about the ambient lighting which timed perfectly with my above post, lol. I forgot about the apparent steering improvements. That's a whole other ballgame. Being someone who really likes my F10's steering, I can only wonder how I'd like the facelifts if they indeed did truly improve it.
__________________
2015 Porsche Macan S / SportDesign: White/Black (Alcantara/Leather), PDK, 20" RS Spyder's w/ Colored Crests & Summer Tires, Air Suspension w/ PASM, High-Gloss Black Trim, Premium Package, Comfort Lighting, HD Radio, Blacked Out Sidemarkers, Front Tints.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Premium/Tech, Sport Auto, etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport". '02 S500 w/ Every Option.


Last edited by K-A; 05-20-2013 at 06:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:59 AM
Robert A Robert A is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,509
Mein Auto: BMW 535d
Where did you read that nav is now standard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagu View Post
It appears that navigation and nappa leather will be standard in the 5series?
__________________
Robert A
BMWCCA Member



Current
2014 535d, M Sport, Space Gray/Mocha Nappa
Prior
2007 530i, White/Black, 6MT
2001 530i, Orient Blue/Beige, 5MT
1994 325is, White/Black 5MT
1984 325e, White/Black 5MT
1983 318i, Delphin/Beige 4MT
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:11 AM
PittX52011 PittX52011 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southeast
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 211
Mein Auto: 2011 X5, 2013 550 xi
2014 5 Series Unveiled with 2 Diesel Models

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeS View Post
I would say 550 get a my14, 528 or 535 get a my13 and save a boat load especially if getting the msport. The exterior mods are so subtle that without the led option you won't really tell the difference. If n63tu delivers 545hp and better fuel efficiency, that's worth the extra bucks alone. If I was in the market today, i would get a my14 550 msport. The 535d is worth a test drive too. Personally, I still think the non-msport prelci exterior seems more "suit and tie" then this new version (ie not as elegant). Although the interior is a different matter.

I agree and disagree. Even it's a 13 550, and I can save a lots of money, I'll rather get a13 550 and Dinan it up. I have DS2 and you can't imagine how much the difference does it make.
I'll only go for MY 14 if I am too much into LEDs or touchpad. Keep in mind that LED will at least be a $1500 option and not standard.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app



Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:37 AM
760Lifan's Avatar
760Lifan 760Lifan is offline
BMW-addicted
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,276
Mein Auto: Not worth mentioning
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeS View Post
If n63tu delivers 545hp and better fuel efficiency, that's worth the extra bucks alone.
545 hp is a bit optimistic..
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:47 AM
jagu's Avatar
jagu jagu is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,614
Mein Auto: 2013 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Where did you read that nav is now standard?
Robert, see 4th paragraph:
http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2013/...gned-5-series/

Quote:
BMW is making navigation and BMW Apps standard across the 5 Series and adding several new options, including a virtual foot pedal that closes the trunk

See under IDrive Paragraph:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/05/19/t...sel/#continued

Quote:
iDrive4.2: Now with touchpad.
The newly-standard iDrive4.2 Navigation system makes use of an optimized menu display and allows access to Advanced Real Time Traffic Information
__________________

2013 535i M-Sport, Jet Black/Black Nappa Leather-Premium-Technology-Driver's Assistance-Luxury Seat-Soft Close Doors-Premium Sound-Sport Auto Transmission-35% Ceramic Tint.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:51 AM
jagu's Avatar
jagu jagu is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,614
Mein Auto: 2013 535i M-Sport
They really have to do a fire sale on the pre face lift now for me to buy one. LOL.
__________________

2013 535i M-Sport, Jet Black/Black Nappa Leather-Premium-Technology-Driver's Assistance-Luxury Seat-Soft Close Doors-Premium Sound-Sport Auto Transmission-35% Ceramic Tint.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-20-2013, 01:18 PM
Keyser Soze's Avatar
Keyser Soze Keyser Soze is offline
just like that, he's gone
Location: Northern California
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,494
Mein Auto: 2013 535
My guess is that the "Modern" and "Luxury" lines will disappear in a few years and they'll go back to a la carte options with a sport upgrade. Nobody is buying F30 modern's (based on an unscientific browsing of the F30 forums) and nobody will go for it on the F10 either.

Just make everything an option and quit trying to bundle stuff like Comcast or something. More colors, materials and features and less fake categorization.
__________________
2013 F10 535i M-Sport, Sophisto Grau, 6-speed MT
2011 E90 335i Sport, Jet Black, Sport Auto, Performance Edition
2002 E46 330i Sport, Jet Black, 5-speed MT, lots of upgrades
2001 E46 330Ci Sport, Steel Grey, 5-speed MT....and more

Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-20-2013, 01:31 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cricket City
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,686
Mein Auto: E70 & F04
It seems BMW's modern line is like MB's "avantgarde" line in ROW (not available in USA). In the past MB would offer "avantgarde" as a sport or appearance package in the USA, but never offered an avantgarde line. Sounds like they have been successful in europe with it, but MB's decision not to offer it in USA may reflect why BMW is doing poorly with modern line.
__________________
2008 Mercedes-Benz CLS550 Iridium Silver/Black Leather -- P2/321/881 (leasetraded 1/10)
2002 BMW 325i --Topaz Blue/Natural Brown Leather --SP/PP/HK/CWP/Bi-xenon (Sold 9/06)
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:48 PM
760Lifan's Avatar
760Lifan 760Lifan is offline
BMW-addicted
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,276
Mein Auto: Not worth mentioning
Quote:
Originally Posted by 760Lifan View Post
What I'm hoping for MY14 is a "simpler" option to add 19" wheels.
Well, that worked out great!
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:54 PM
760Lifan's Avatar
760Lifan 760Lifan is offline
BMW-addicted
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,276
Mein Auto: Not worth mentioning
Based on the info I have available so far, I have to say that the "luxury" line looks quite appealing to me. Nappa leather, 19" V-spoke wheels and no fancy badges. Works for me.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-20-2013, 04:54 PM
Needsdecaf's Avatar
Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
Everything's Bigger in TX
Location: The Woodlands, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,109
Mein Auto: 2007 MDX
2014 5 Series Unveiled with 2 Diesel Models

Lines guide:

No line - same as before
Luxury - Premium Pack plus 19's
Modern - Premium Pack plus 19's and Funky colors
MSport - same as before.




Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 05-20-2013, 05:53 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Cray
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,684
Mein Auto: Porsche Macan S / SD Pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
My guess is that the "Modern" and "Luxury" lines will disappear in a few years and they'll go back to a la carte options with a sport upgrade. Nobody is buying F30 modern's (based on an unscientific browsing of the F30 forums) and nobody will go for it on the F10 either.

Just make everything an option and quit trying to bundle stuff like Comcast or something. More colors, materials and features and less fake categorization.
BMW marketing was asleep when they came up with "Modern". There's nothing about it that defines what "Modern" implies. So are all other F10's "Classic"? Lol. "Luxury" is self-explanatory as "Sport" as "M Sport" is, therefore makes sense.

IMO they would have been far better off with Base, "Luxury", "Sport" being basically what the Modern line is, and then "M Sport" being the full blown Sport model.
__________________
2015 Porsche Macan S / SportDesign: White/Black (Alcantara/Leather), PDK, 20" RS Spyder's w/ Colored Crests & Summer Tires, Air Suspension w/ PASM, High-Gloss Black Trim, Premium Package, Comfort Lighting, HD Radio, Blacked Out Sidemarkers, Front Tints.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Premium/Tech, Sport Auto, etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport". '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:39 PM
PittX52011 PittX52011 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southeast
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 211
Mein Auto: 2011 X5, 2013 550 xi
I don't see 6WB or MFID (the European instrument cluster which changes with sport and comfort modes) as an option, I wonder either its standard or not available yet in US???
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:50 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Cray
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,684
Mein Auto: Porsche Macan S / SD Pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by PittX52011 View Post
I don't see 6WB or MFID (the European instrument cluster which changes with sport and comfort modes) as an option, I wonder either its standard or not available yet in US???
I don't see any Extended Panel Display or HUD for the 535i.... I must be looking wrong....?
__________________
2015 Porsche Macan S / SportDesign: White/Black (Alcantara/Leather), PDK, 20" RS Spyder's w/ Colored Crests & Summer Tires, Air Suspension w/ PASM, High-Gloss Black Trim, Premium Package, Comfort Lighting, HD Radio, Blacked Out Sidemarkers, Front Tints.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Premium/Tech, Sport Auto, etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport". '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:44 PM
Dallas550 Dallas550 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 357
Mein Auto: 2011 550i, 2014 X3 28i
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I don't see any Extended Panel Display or HUD for the 535i.... I must be looking wrong....?
Just had a chance to look over everything, you will need to order the drivers assistance package to get HUD and 6WA for the 528 and 535.
__________________
2014 X3 28i
2011 550i
2012 535i - Retired
2008 528i - Retired
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 05-21-2013, 06:29 AM
LukeS's Avatar
LukeS LukeS is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 346
Mein Auto: 2013 535ix M-sport
2014 5 Series Unveiled with 2 Diesel Models

Quote:
Originally Posted by 760Lifan View Post
545 hp is a bit optimistic..
Damn dyslexia creeping on me, lol.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms