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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 05-20-2013, 05:39 AM
FTC FTC is offline
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I finally found some time and test drove a M5 saturday as I have been thinking about trading in my dinan stage 4 550 M sport for a M5. I learned alot and it was well worth the experience. Number one, I had my heart set on either monte carlo blue or black but after saturday I am convinced the sahkhir( spelling) orange with black interior is the best combo. Second I had a 2 1/2 hour drive to the BMW dealership in my 550 so it was a ideal time for me to get a true feel for the two in the same day. Here it is, I felt that there is not alot of difference in speed or acceleration between a dinan stage 4 550 or a M5. Over a 100 mph probably a different story and at the track probably a different story. I felt the biggest difference was in the handling and brakes. The M5 handled like a big GO KART ! And the chassis was also a difference between the two vehicles. The M5 has some great options. I loved the way you can adjust chassis/suspension set up and the way you can adjust your RPM shift points. The DCT is very impressive as well. The brakes on the M5 also have it all over the 550. As much as I love the M5, I did not climb back into my 550 dinan unhappy or having the urge to turn around and go back to the dealer to close a deal. Maybe it's me, but I do not feel there is that big of a difference between the two vehicles, and keep in mind I do not even have dinan brakes or michelin tires on my 550. The dealer I visited is tied in very well with dinan and actually has dinan vehicles there to purchase and even the CA that took me for a test drive said that when you put stage 4 or stage 5 dinan in a 550 the gap closes tremendousely between the two cars. And the dealership has a few dinan customers that are tracking their cars with no issues. Again I felt the biggest difference was in the handling and the braking. I do not feel the speed and HP wre that much different. Keep in mind the dinan 550 has 90 ft./lbs. more torque and the M5 has 30 more HP. With that being said I love both cars and I am 50/50 on whether I will trade. I just do not feel the M5 is worth $ 45,000.00 TO $ 50,000.00 DIFFERENCE in trade value or $ 15,000.00 TO $ 20,000.00 NEW COMPARED to a new dinan 5 to a new M5. Do not get me wrong the M5 is my favorite sports sedan, but as the CA told me the dinan 550 is just a slight step below a M5 and I agree. I think if I tracked the car 3 times per month in the summer I would go in the M5, but knowing that I do not do that, I am still undecided if the additional cost is worth it. Again right right now I am 50/50 on trading. I did the best I could explaining what I felt the differences were and I will admit I am not that mechanically inclined or a gear head. In closing coming from someone who has driven both vehicles, owners of the 550 stage 4/5 dinan have nothing to be ashamed about when comparing their vehicle to a f 10 M5. By the way saturday on the way to the dealership I pulled away from a E 60 M5 repeatedly without much of a problem.
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:00 AM
john mclane john mclane is offline
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Not to deviate, but I share the same opinion in regard to my 650 w/ Dinan vs a M6, perhaps even less of a difference given its a convertible (chassis stiffness!). The price gap is just ridiculous, even worst if yours is used against a new one.
I don't doubt in the near future only the M will have V8 on the 5 an 6 series.

The M police will be all over this...


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  #3  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:48 AM
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chuck92116 chuck92116 is offline
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test drive M5

M's were never suppose the be worth the money. They are available for those who are willing to pay a costly sum for exclusivity instead of value.

The is a very large cost delta much like a 5 series compared to a 6 series. The difference comes down to two doors.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:50 AM
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:56 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
...I felt the biggest difference was in the handling and brakes. The M5 handled like a big GO KART ! And the chassis was also a difference between the two vehicles. ... Again I felt the biggest difference was in the handling and the braking. I do not feel the speed and HP wre that much different.
Very right if one doesn't appreciate the above, no point plonking even $10k for the difference. The 550 is fast enough
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:00 AM
tjangi tjangi is offline
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  #7  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:29 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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For the 2014 M5

... At the same time, the developers at BMW M GmbH have applied extensive modifications to the chassis set-up. Along with the suspension and damping systems, the stabiliser bars have also been more tautly tuned. In the BMW M5 this adjustment has resulted in a lowering of the car by around 10 millimetres. The potential inherent in the rear axle design based on the race-derived principle of the rear axle subframe being bolted to the body and the even more precisely calculated elastokinematics for the front axle are exploited to the full in the models featuring the Competition Package, with the aim of enhancing driving precision ...

The new hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering with the M-specific Servotronic function, moreover, has more direct mapping to enable firm and secure contact with the road while further increasing the agility of the vehicle during cornering.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/05/19/th...m6-gran-coupe/

I've been talking about the suspension of the F10, and it appears this is even made firmer in the already firm M5 let's see whether this is carried over to the F10 LCI non M models. There is more emphasis on the suspension than the steering feel in the M5 competition package. The M5 already has hydraulic steering; let's see what BMW does for the non M.
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  #8  
Old 05-20-2013, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
For the 2014 M5

... At the same time, the developers at BMW M GmbH have applied extensive modifications to the chassis set-up. Along with the suspension and damping systems, the stabiliser bars have also been more tautly tuned. In the BMW M5 this adjustment has resulted in a lowering of the car by around 10 millimetres. The potential inherent in the rear axle design based on the race-derived principle of the rear axle subframe being bolted to the body and the even more precisely calculated elastokinematics for the front axle are exploited to the full in the models featuring the Competition Package, with the aim of enhancing driving precision ...

The new hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering with the M-specific Servotronic function, moreover, has more direct mapping to enable firm and secure contact with the road while further increasing the agility of the vehicle during cornering.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/05/19/th...m6-gran-coupe/

I've been talking about the suspension of the F10, and it appears this is even made firmer in the already firm M5 let's see whether this is carried over to the F10 LCI non M models. There is more emphasis on the suspension than the steering feel in the M5 competition package. The M5 already has hydraulic steering; let's see what BMW does for the non M.
You obviously know alot more about this than I do, but the 550 x drives have hydraulic steering.
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2013, 12:06 PM
Sam-F10 Sam-F10 is offline
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Glad to hear that as I have a 550 Dinan S3

In your 550 do you have any suspension changes? trying to understand if you are comparing stock 550 suspension vs M5 stock

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
I finally found some time and test drove a M5 saturday as I have been thinking about trading in my dinan stage 4 550 M sport for a M5. I learned alot and it was well worth the experience. Number one, I had my heart set on either monte carlo blue or black but after saturday I am convinced the sahkhir( spelling) orange with black interior is the best combo. Second I had a 2 1/2 hour drive to the BMW dealership in my 550 so it was a ideal time for me to get a true feel for the two in the same day. Here it is, I felt that there is not alot of difference in speed or acceleration between a dinan stage 4 550 or a M5. Over a 100 mph probably a different story and at the track probably a different story. I felt the biggest difference was in the handling and brakes. The M5 handled like a big GO KART ! And the chassis was also a difference between the two vehicles. The M5 has some great options. I loved the way you can adjust chassis/suspension set up and the way you can adjust your RPM shift points. The DCT is very impressive as well. The brakes on the M5 also have it all over the 550. As much as I love the M5, I did not climb back into my 550 dinan unhappy or having the urge to turn around and go back to the dealer to close a deal. Maybe it's me, but I do not feel there is that big of a difference between the two vehicles, and keep in mind I do not even have dinan brakes or michelin tires on my 550. The dealer I visited is tied in very well with dinan and actually has dinan vehicles there to purchase and even the CA that took me for a test drive said that when you put stage 4 or stage 5 dinan in a 550 the gap closes tremendousely between the two cars. And the dealership has a few dinan customers that are tracking their cars with no issues. Again I felt the biggest difference was in the handling and the braking. I do not feel the speed and HP wre that much different. Keep in mind the dinan 550 has 90 ft./lbs. more torque and the M5 has 30 more HP. With that being said I love both cars and I am 50/50 on whether I will trade. I just do not feel the M5 is worth $ 45,000.00 TO $ 50,000.00 DIFFERENCE in trade value or $ 15,000.00 TO $ 20,000.00 NEW COMPARED to a new dinan 5 to a new M5. Do not get me wrong the M5 is my favorite sports sedan, but as the CA told me the dinan 550 is just a slight step below a M5 and I agree. I think if I tracked the car 3 times per month in the summer I would go in the M5, but knowing that I do not do that, I am still undecided if the additional cost is worth it. Again right right now I am 50/50 on trading. I did the best I could explaining what I felt the differences were and I will admit I am not that mechanically inclined or a gear head. In closing coming from someone who has driven both vehicles, owners of the 550 stage 4/5 dinan have nothing to be ashamed about when comparing their vehicle to a f 10 M5. By the way saturday on the way to the dealership I pulled away from a E 60 M5 repeatedly without much of a problem.
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  #10  
Old 05-20-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam-F10 View Post
Glad to hear that as I have a 550 Dinan S3

In your 550 do you have any suspension changes? trying to understand if you are comparing stock 550 suspension vs M5 stock
I have the dinan performance suspension with stage 4 in a 2011 x drive M sport. I have not installed the shockware yet because I have not decided what I am going to do about trading. But this weekend opened my eyes alot.
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  #11  
Old 05-20-2013, 12:35 PM
Sam-F10 Sam-F10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
I have the dinan performance suspension with stage 4 in a 2011 x drive M sport. I have not installed the shockware yet because I have not decided what I am going to do about trading. But this weekend opened my eyes alot.
Cool, thanks for the info. I am hoping you do the shockware ( obviously if you plan to keep your 550 ) and let us know the difference.

I want to see if the shockware (+dinan suspension ) makes it closer or equal to the M5
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam-F10 View Post
Cool, thanks for the info. I am hoping you do the shockware ( obviously if you plan to keep your 550 ) and let us know the difference.

I want to see if the shockware (+dinan suspension ) makes it closer or equal to the M5
So far everybody that has done the shockware is extremely happy with it. I have not heard 1 person complain about it. They have all said the change is very noticeable. Is it like the M5 ? I do not know. I will say the M5 has a great suspension set up.
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck92116 View Post
M's were never suppose the be worth the money. They are available for those who are willing to pay a costly sum for exclusivity instead of value.

The is a very large cost delta much like a 5 series compared to a 6 series. The difference comes down to two doors.
I agree, but the E9X M3 / E60 M5 are the last Ms worth buying. That said when I do buy a F10 M5 it will be a CPO that will be toyed with for 2-3 years then sold. I don't trust BMW turbos.
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  #14  
Old 05-21-2013, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by john mclane View Post
Not to deviate, but I share the same opinion in regard to my 650 w/ Dinan vs a M6, perhaps even less of a difference given its a convertible (chassis stiffness!). The price gap is just ridiculous, even worst if yours is used against a new one.
I don't doubt in the near future only the M will have V8 on the 5 an 6 series.

The M police will be all over this...


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I don't think BMW will ever exclusively offer the V8 to just the M5. I agree that the performance of a 550 with Dinan upgrades makes the HP very comparable, but the Dinan 5's are almost as rare as M5's. Let's not forget what the M5 offers over the non-M cars. The exclusive colors and interiors really distinguish the M from the non-M. The suede headliner, custom leather, etc. really is eye popping. The painted calipers and huge ceramic discs offer braking performance that really out performs our cars. The suspension is track ready. Let's not forget the exhaust. All this said is it worth $107,000 vs $65,000 for a well equipped DS5 550, probably not, but if I had the money, I would be all over the M5. With regard to the V8 performance being similar, they could always go back to the V10 for the M5.
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  #15  
Old 05-21-2013, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe-BMW View Post
I don't think BMW will ever exclusively offer the V8 to just the M5. I agree that the performance of a 550 with Dinan upgrades makes the HP very comparable, but the Dinan 5's are almost as rare as M5's. Let's not forget what the M5 offers over the non-M cars. The exclusive colors and interiors really distinguish the M from the non-M. The suede headliner, custom leather, etc. really is eye popping. The painted calipers and huge ceramic discs offer braking performance that really out performs our cars. The suspension is track ready. Let's not forget the exhaust. All this said is it worth $107,000 vs $65,000 for a well equipped DS5 550, probably not, but if I had the money, I would be all over the M5. With regard to the V8 performance being similar, they could always go back to the V10 for the M5.
I agree with you on the exclusive colors, painted calibers, some interior upgrades, brakes, and suspension. The brakes you can up grade on a 550, the suspension you can improve, and dinan's exhaust is better than the M5'S, keep in mind with the M5 the exhaust sound is piped into the car. The bottom line is after driving both cars back to back, a new M5 at say $ 104,000.00 (average) vs. a dinan stage 4/5 at $ 82,000.00 both brand new, I'll take the $ 22,000.00 cash, espcially with all wheel drive. Even though I have the money to do so, sometimes you have to be practible not wasteful. And how often in everyday driving do you actually utilize the extra $ 25,000.00 you spent on a M car, espcially M5'S and M6'S ?
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:04 AM
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Good points. I would agree, the M5 is probably not a daily driver, especially in the Northeast.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:34 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe-BMW View Post
Good points. I would agree, the M5 is probably not a daily driver, especially in the Northeast.
You're mistaken (not quite, if you're referring to snow laden areas ). BMW has made the F10 M5 a daily driver, even with passengers driven sportily. The E90 M3 is sportier, but much less of a daily driver when driven sportily with passengers on board. M3 is good for an enthusiast driver, or with an enthusiastic front passenger otherwise it's uncomfortable esp for the rear passengers.

Last edited by bm323; 05-21-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:55 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by FTC View Post
I agree with you on the exclusive colors, painted calibers, some interior upgrades, brakes, and suspension. The brakes you can up grade on a 550, the suspension you can improve, and dinan's exhaust is better than the M5'S, keep in mind with the M5 the exhaust sound is piped into the car. The bottom line is after driving both cars back to back, a new M5 at say $ 104,000.00 (average) vs. a dinan stage 4/5 at $ 82,000.00 both brand new, I'll take the $ 22,000.00 cash, espcially with all wheel drive. Even though I have the money to do so, sometimes you have to be practible not wasteful. And how often in everyday driving do you actually utilize the extra $ 25,000.00 you spent on a M car, espcially M5'S and M6'S ?
It's not worth the $25,000 if one compares how they go on a straight line dash; issue is whether it's worth the difference with the M suspension, chassis set-up, DCT and M differential. If it's not worth $25,000, then good for you - you've saved $25k
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
It's not worth the $25,000 if one compares how they go on a straight line dash; issue is whether it's worth the difference with the M suspension, chassis set-up, DCT and M differential. If it's not worth $25,000, then good for you - you've saved $25k
I must have been test driving a 528 m sport saturday and comparing to the 550 m sport.

Last edited by FTC; 05-21-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:11 PM
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I will admit that I haven't driven the M5, but I have driven the sportier M6. Hypothetically, even if the M5 was as good as the M6, I would still pick a Dinan 550xi even for the same money. I experienced comparable steering responsiveness in my 550 due to my stiffer springs, very light wheels, and grippy tires. Although all-out acceleration wasn't as fast, it was effectively faster and more predictable due the xDrive always getting the power to the pavement.

I will point out that by modding a car fully to Dinan specs - tune, suspension, exhaust, wheels, and brakes (pretty much everything the M division does) then the cost advantage disappears.


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Old 05-21-2013, 03:50 PM
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I will admit that I haven't driven the M5, but I have driven the sportier M6. Hypothetically, even if the M5 was as good as the M6, I would still pick a Dinan 550xi even for the same money. I experienced comparable steering responsiveness in my 550 due to my stiffer springs, very light wheels, and grippy tires. Although all-out acceleration wasn't as fast, it was effectively faster and more predictable due the xDrive always getting the power to the pavement.

I will point out that by modding a car fully to Dinan specs - tune, suspension, exhaust, wheels, and brakes (pretty much everything the M division does) then the cost advantage disappears.


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Thank you. Would you mind posting this on the M5 forum. But be prepared to feel the wrath of the badge.
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:53 PM
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I must have been test driving a 528 m sport saturday and comparing to the 550 m sport.
You're rather funny why aren't you happy with saving $25k (since you are of the view that the DCT, active M differential at the rear with the suspension set up, and rear axle bolted on to the body are not worth it)?
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:59 PM
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You're rather funny why aren't you happy with saving $25k (since you are of the view that the DCT, active M differential at the rear with the suspension set up, and rear axle bolted on to the body are not worth it)?
Again my review of test driving the m5 was not meant at all to put down the m5. To be honest I love the m5 ! I just could not see or feel that there was a $ 20,000 to $ 25,000 dollar difference in performance, even with all the enhancements you just mentioned.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:03 PM
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The M5 handled like a big GO KART !
By the way, I can see that you've spent enough time on the M5 (unlike some) and concluded that the M5 is not worth the price difference; and I have no quarrel whatsoever with this. Your view is substantiated and is justifiable

Dunderhi's post (months back) on his driving experience of the M6 is different from your views of the M5 drive. From my recollection, his views are quite different from that posted in post#20 above.

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Old 05-21-2013, 06:06 PM
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Again my review of test driving the m5 was not meant at all to put down the m5. To be honest I love the m5 ! I just could not see or feel that there was a $ 20,000 to $ 25,000 dollar difference in performance, even with all the enhancements you just mentioned.
Yup, your view is certainly different from Dunderhi's and yes, I do respect your view.
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