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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:01 PM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Exclamation e90 bmw chokes up on start-up ! please help

i just bought a E90 bmw , when i push the start ignition, the RPM needle goes up to 1 (x1000) then starts dropping to 600 then 500 until it turns off , that's when the car is still cool . i took it to a mechanic and he said it was the air intake which he replaced, the problem persisted , so send it back again in which he changed the oil and the oil filter and still the car did not improve, after that he changed the air mass and still it did not work. please any ideas or help , i have my car in front of my house and i'm afraid to drive it
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:24 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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It's been like 3 weeks since I've been in mine but it doesn't sound abnormal to me jumps to 1000+ and settles in at 500-600 Any other symptoms is the needle jumping does it remain rough?


Oh my bad lol saw "it turns off" too late yeah not sure what that's about!


I'd check ignition timing.

Last edited by SuperTerp; 05-24-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:40 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 320ie90 View Post
i just bought a E90 bmw , when i push the start ignition, the RPM needle goes up to 1 (x1000) then starts dropping to 600 then 500 until it turns off , that's when the car is still cool . i took it to a mechanic and he said it was the air intake which he replaced, the problem persisted , so send it back again in which he changed the oil and the oil filter and still the car did not improve, after that he changed the air mass and still it did not work. please any ideas or help , i have my car in front of my house and i'm afraid to drive it

Proposed solutions are a shot in the dark without reading codes...recommend you do so ASAP - post here!
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:47 PM
Watchme Watchme is offline
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Do these cars have Idle Air Control Valve?
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  #5  
Old 05-25-2013, 11:36 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by Watchme View Post
Do these cars have Idle Air Control Valve?
i think they do , i searched for it and they do ,,, ill take it to the mechanic on tuesday , because im flying to milano tomorrow ...
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:37 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Proposed solutions are a shot in the dark without reading codes...recommend you do so ASAP - post here!
already set it on scanner , and it did NOT read anything abnormal , so a shot in the dark is all i have, and the people of this forum
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  #7  
Old 05-25-2013, 11:39 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
It's been like 3 weeks since I've been in mine but it doesn't sound abnormal to me jumps to 1000+ and settles in at 500-600 Any other symptoms is the needle jumping does it remain rough?


Oh my bad lol saw "it turns off" too late yeah not sure what that's about!


I'd check ignition timing.
it doesn't always turn off , but its very rough , the whole car starts wiggling , and the needle is all over 500 600 700 500 800 , then settles at 600 for the first 10 sec and drives smooth later on ,,, then when it colds again , it does it (and sometimes don't)
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:39 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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already set it on scanner , and it did NOT read anything abnormal , so a shot in the dark is all i have, and the people of this forum

But can the scanner read hidden, proprietary, and shadow BMW codes?
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Old 05-25-2013, 10:04 PM
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sptt144 sptt144 is offline
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On my old Mercedes, it used to do the same thing and ended up being a cracked Idle Air Valve Control vacuum line. Depending on the temperature the crack would open and idle very rough and almost shut off. When cold, it ran nice and smooth. This was an early 90's car though and not as advanced and computer controlled like ours. However, it caused the ecu to keep adjusting the air/fuel mixture and struggle at idle sometimes stalling the car. Most cars start cold and idle at 1000 rpm until warm and then go into a different programming mode which drops the idle down to around 550-600 rpms. I threw a lot at the problem until I finally found someone online that solved the issue. I doubt it uses vacuum lines to control the IACV. Mine was struggling in the morning and BMW replaced all of my coils under a TSB warranty and it stopped. The problem was noticeable in the mornings when very cold but was fine later on in the day. My money is on injectors or coils.

Last edited by sptt144; 05-25-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:03 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by sptt144 View Post
On my old Mercedes, it used to do the same thing and ended up being a cracked Idle Air Valve Control vacuum line. Depending on the temperature the crack would open and idle very rough and almost shut off. When cold, it ran nice and smooth. This was an early 90's car though and not as advanced and computer controlled like ours. However, it caused the ecu to keep adjusting the air/fuel mixture and struggle at idle sometimes stalling the car. Most cars start cold and idle at 1000 rpm until warm and then go into a different programming mode which drops the idle down to around 550-600 rpms. I threw a lot at the problem until I finally found someone online that solved the issue. I doubt it uses vacuum lines to control the IACV. Mine was struggling in the morning and BMW replaced all of my coils under a TSB warranty and it stopped. The problem was noticeable in the mornings when very cold but was fine later on in the day. My money is on injectors or coils.
OK so what you are saying that IAVC (if its cracked) would default only when it gets hot , and not on cold starts ? because my issue is the cold start , RPM goes to 1000 then drops to 500 and the engine starts choking and wobbling jumps all over for 10 sec , and then runs like nothing happened, smooth ride , good gas feedback , shifts good , good pedal response ... only that cold start ... any way thanks for the help
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  #11  
Old 05-26-2013, 09:23 AM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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If you try to give it a decent bit of throttle when it's acting wonky, what does it do?
Which engine is it? I see in your user info it's a 320. Reason I ask: the different engines have different ways to handle throttle duties.
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  #12  
Old 05-26-2013, 11:35 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
But can the scanner read hidden, proprietary, and shadow BMW codes?
i think its a specific kind of scan for bmw , the problem was that i wasn't around when they tested it ....
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2013, 11:39 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
If you try to give it a decent bit of throttle when it's acting wonky, what does it do?
Which engine is it? I see in your user info it's a 320. Reason I ask: the different engines have different ways to handle throttle duties.
its a 4 cylinders 320i , and the normal thing when the car starts acting wonky is to give it a good throttle , it revs up to 4000 - 5000 and when i let it drop back to 1000 it will choke up all over again , so now i just leave it alone for 10 sec acting all crazy and it goes normal for the drive.... its just that first 10 sec ...
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2013, 11:43 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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as i go throughout forums , it seems that the Idle Air Control Valve could be the main issue ,, and on tuesday i am going to take it to the Bmw garage , because i am left with no choice , so i'll let you guys know , hope my experience will help someone eventually
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  #15  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:09 PM
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sptt144 sptt144 is offline
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I was just letting you know what my old car did but that doesn't mean you would have the same issue during hot or cold starts. My hose was cracked at the neck of the IACV and ended up being as brittle as plastic when I replaced it with a pliable rubber one. Being cold helped the crack stay closed but once it got hot the crack separated and vacuum pressure was lost. It sounds like it may be a good place to start for you at the least. If it has vacuum hoses, I would be surprised, but it does have a flap that can get stuck until air or engine warms up. I recently had to replace my wife's egr valve which was electronically controlled and the new one fixed her check engine light issue and drastically improved the gas mileage. It all depends. Good luck man.
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:08 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by sptt144 View Post
I was just letting you know what my old car did but that doesn't mean you would have the same issue during hot or cold starts. My hose was cracked at the neck of the IACV and ended up being as brittle as plastic when I replaced it with a pliable rubber one. Being cold helped the crack stay closed but once it got hot the crack separated and vacuum pressure was lost. It sounds like it may be a good place to start for you at the least. If it has vacuum hoses, I would be surprised, but it does have a flap that can get stuck until air or engine warms up. I recently had to replace my wife's egr valve which was electronically controlled and the new one fixed her check engine light issue and drastically improved the gas mileage. It all depends. Good luck man.
took it to the garage, and the mechanic said it needs more than 3 days , he needs to try all kinds of possibilities , and the thing is that this car does NOT have a IAVC , so we are back to square one , plus he updated all kinds of system , transmission software and it didn't workout . so few days left, any way thanks for you all , specially sptt144 ..
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:12 AM
Watchme Watchme is offline
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Originally Posted by 320ie90 View Post
took it to the garage, and the mechanic said it needs more than 3 days , he needs to try all kinds of possibilities , and the thing is that this car does NOT have a IAVC , so we are back to square one , plus he updated all kinds of system , transmission software and it didn't workout . so few days left, any way thanks for you all , specially sptt144 ..
Mechanic should be able to figure it out better than us. But the only issue is you never know if you're taken for a ride.
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  #18  
Old 05-29-2013, 08:17 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Mechanic should be able to figure it out better than us. But the only issue is you never know if you're taken for a ride.
that's exactly true ! but im left with no choice , all obvious solutions have been tried so... i'm in for a ride
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:33 AM
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sptt144 sptt144 is offline
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I found this and the consensus is if it's not software programming this is the other cause for your car. Sound familiar?

"...the vanos system is a variable camshaft timing device, it is used to advance and retard timing due to different driving/running conditions. the vanos unit is also run by oil pressure (so if anyone tells you that you need to bleed the vanos, they are pulling your leg!). If your vanos is starting to fail/bind it will be very prevolent in colder temperatures, especially if your cars temp. is cold as well (cold oil + faulting vanos unit = quick drops in idle while warming up, sometimes stalling out completely) because the dme advances the timing when attempting to get the car up to NOT (normal opperating temp), a binding vanos unit and cold thick sludgey oil will not go well together, and the unit will keep the timing advanced when it shouldnt be, causing the car to sputter."

...and this:

"I had my car in the dealer last week and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. No codes, no faults. I switched to 89 octane a few days ago and it seems fine for now. I'll try it again in the next few mornings since it will be cool. I'll use the lower octane in the fall and see if that cures the idle bounces. I must say that the car runs great using 89 octane. Thanks to 325is Baby for the tip."

...adding Techron helped with your exact same symptoms here (least expensive route!):

http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/3-s...lem-75927.html

One guy said he used lower fuel grades and it stopped and also replaced his plugs and that was in the cold of Winter.

I have also read that replacing your vanos is simple in the older cars but can be tricky. Having someone do it can be pricey ($1200-$1500).

Last edited by sptt144; 05-30-2013 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:42 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sptt144 View Post
I found this and the consensus is if it's not software programming this is the other cause for your car. Sound familiar?

"...the vanos system is a variable camshaft timing device, it is used to advance and retard timing due to different driving/running conditions. the vanos unit is also run by oil pressure (so if anyone tells you that you need to bleed the vanos, they are pulling your leg!). If your vanos is starting to fail/bind it will be very prevolent in colder temperatures, especially if your cars temp. is cold as well (cold oil + faulting vanos unit = quick drops in idle while warming up, sometimes stalling out completely) because the dme advances the timing when attempting to get the car up to NOT (normal opperating temp), a binding vanos unit and cold thick sludgey oil will not go well together, and the unit will keep the timing advanced when it shouldnt be, causing the car to sputter."

...and this:

"I had my car in the dealer last week and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. No codes, no faults. I switched to 89 octane a few days ago and it seems fine for now. I'll try it again in the next few mornings since it will be cool. I'll use the lower octane in the fall and see if that cures the idle bounces. I must say that the car runs great using 89 octane. Thanks to 325is Baby for the tip."

...adding Techron helped with your exact same symptoms here (least expensive route!):

http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/3-s...lem-75927.html

One guy said he used lower fuel grades and it stopped and also replaced his plugs and that was in the cold of Winter.

I have also read that replacing your vanos is simple in the older cars but can be tricky. Having someone do it can be pricey ($1200-$1500).
I just called the garage , they said all air intakes , air related issues are fine , they are going to open up the engine , and said it should be a crank related issue (and i'm quoting) , the guy said by tomorrow it should be all fixed and done (i hope) , my friend i really thank you for your help , effort and the info you have gathered , but now it is in his hands and he better fix it or he won't see a penny (btw the dude has X6s , M3 , M6 and SLR in his garage , so i think he's really good)
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:56 AM
Watchme Watchme is offline
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Originally Posted by 320ie90 View Post
I just called the garage , they said all air intakes , air related issues are fine , they are going to open up the engine , and said it should be a crank related issue (and i'm quoting) , the guy said by tomorrow it should be all fixed and done (i hope) , my friend i really thank you for your help , effort and the info you have gathered , but now it is in his hands and he better fix it or he won't see a penny (btw the dude has X6s , M3 , M6 and SLR in his garage , so i think he's really good at making money)
fixed that for ya.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:41 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by Watchme View Post
Do these cars have Idle Air Control Valve?
Yup, and that's where I'd be poking around. That and a throttle body cleaning, dirty throttle plates and throttle bodies being the #1 cause of rough idle and stalling.
OP, better find a new mechanic. What you have is a parts changer. He changed the MAF sensor? Absolutely no reason to misdiagnose a MAF, the signal is linear 5V DC, non-pulsed and not carried on the CAN bus. It's an easily graphed signal and faults readily show up when the throttle is goosed or at idle.

Did he do a forced re-learn after changing the intake (bellows?) and the MAF sensor? I bet not... If not, he needs to start there!

Last edited by DSXMachina; 05-30-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:42 PM
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sptt144 sptt144 is offline
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Re: e90 bmw chokes up on start-up ! please help

Im not a mechanic but the first thing I do when I have a problem is Google it and see how many others have had the same issue with same series car. 90% of the time, the popular vote fixes the issue.

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Old 06-10-2013, 09:36 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Yup, and that's where I'd be poking around. That and a throttle body cleaning, dirty throttle plates and throttle bodies being the #1 cause of rough idle and stalling.
OP, better find a new mechanic. What you have is a parts changer. He changed the MAF sensor? Absolutely no reason to misdiagnose a MAF, the signal is linear 5V DC, non-pulsed and not carried on the CAN bus. It's an easily graphed signal and faults readily show up when the throttle is goosed or at idle.

Did he do a forced re-learn after changing the intake (bellows?) and the MAF sensor? I bet not... If not, he needs to start there!
Ummm no bro the mechanic said it doesn't have any , and online it also showed that from that model till now there is no more IAVC...
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:39 AM
320ie90 320ie90 is offline
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Originally Posted by sptt144 View Post
Im not a mechanic but the first thing I do when I have a problem is Google it and see how many others have had the same issue with same series car. 90% of the time, the popular vote fixes the issue.

Sent from my DROID2 using BimmerApp mobile app
Ok , so the car is still in the shop , its been 2 weeks now , and seems its going to take another week (at least) , they are going to open up the engine , they said it should be a "return valve" (and guys im translating from arabic , so it ain't easy ) ... hope to get yall a final answer soon .
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