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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #1  
Old 05-31-2013, 03:49 PM
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wjhughes420384 wjhughes420384 is offline
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Turbos lifespan 70k??

about 4 weeks ago one of my turbos started leaking oil, they had to replace it, the high pressure fuel pump and the coils on that side of the engine(they got oil in and failed)

This week the other turbo droped out under hard acceleration and i get a drivetrain fault warning. waiting for the insurance co for extended warranty to get to dealer to approve repair.
BTW continental does not seem to be a great warranty, they cover to 150,000 miles, but always want to replace with used parts, i can't imaging how long a used turbo would last, i paid the difference, had to pay the dealer then it took them almost 4 weeks to pay me.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:53 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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I don't know much especially about the 7ers anymore, but I do know people have been pumping 20psi+ on n54 twins (stock is like 7-8psi ) and logging well over 70k miles. I was at 15-18psi and logged an easy 10k hitting 140+ almost daily.
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:21 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Thanks for this info, wjhughes.

Can you please elaborate as to the type of insurance you have? Is it an extended warranty?

Did you buy it from your dealer? What are its terms and what did it cost?

Anyone have similar difficulty with the BMW branded policies?
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:01 PM
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i had two of my turbos replaced (740) at 14,000 kilometers total cost was approx $10k including all other parts and labor. Good thing car is under warranty.
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2013, 07:06 PM
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You should consider yourself lucky that they lasted this long - 70k is amazing, given that - and I firmly believe in this taking into account my personal experience and a few other cases - these engines are not built to run for much longer than 50-60k miles.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:08 PM
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Turbos lifespan 70k??

Did you take it to the track a lot?

What company makes these crappy turbos? I can't understand why some suppliers have drastically better QC than others...
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:22 PM
Akshun Akshun is offline
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Turbos lifespan 70k??

You should consider yourself lucky that they lasted this long - 70k is amazing, given that - and I firmly believe in this taking into account my personal experience and a few other cases - these engines are not built to run for much longer than 50-60k miles.


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Old 05-31-2013, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akshun View Post
You should consider yourself lucky that they lasted this long - 70k is amazing, given that - and I firmly believe in this taking into account my personal experience and a few other cases - these engines are not built to run for much longer than 50-60k miles.


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That was my reaction to his comment. Not very encouraging for a new BMW owner like me. beamlord, are these engines really designed to fail at those mileage numbers?? Sounds impossible for a car at this cost. Beamlord, when you say they fail at 50k do you mean the turbos or the engines or both? Is there a way to know your turbos need replacing before they destroy the engine?

Last edited by ajdoha234; 05-31-2013 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:01 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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How is it possible these drivetrains last less than 100k with normal use!?

A fraud if true. :|
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2013, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
How is it possible these drivetrains last less than 100k with normal use!?

A fraud if true. :|
I don't understand that either, there's much cheaper cars out there that go well over 100k easily with regular maintenance. Would find it weird if BMW didn't at least match that.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:16 AM
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Who has a high mileage F01?
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdoha234 View Post
That was my reaction to his comment. Not very encouraging for a new BMW owner like me. beamlord, are these engines really designed to fail at those mileage numbers?? Sounds impossible for a car at this cost. Beamlord, when you say they fail at 50k do you mean the turbos or the engines or both? Is there a way to know your turbos need replacing before they destroy the engine?
As a new owner you shouldn't have much to worry about, it's a long way before you're at high mileage anyway.

And it's not just about the turbos. In fact, the turbo failure is nothing spectacular of unexpected, it's not that unnatural that they (depending on driving style) need to be replaced in the upper 60k-100k range.
But there is also - at least one, if not more that I don't know of - an intrinsic fabrication failure in the engine, namely the timing chain guide which breaks into small debris which clog the oil lines (including the oil lines for the turbos) which leads to
a) turbos failing / blowing up damaging the engine
b) engine itself failing

This is not just my fantasy, it almost happened to me - the debris were identified by chance during service - and while I was researching came to a lot of information about numerous similar cases. It's just that BMW will never openly admit that since it would lead to a financial disaster.

A replacement engine + labor runs at ~25.000 Euro which is way over 30k USD.

They goodwilled me 65% of the replacement engine (including 2x turbos, oil pump, etc.) and 65% of the labor but the "deal" was they will not give me any written response to the letter I wrote demanding explanation of such a failure and demanding the costs to be taken over by BMW. So I don't have them admitting their engine failed, officially.

The only positive thing out of this was I got the facelift engine and a new transmission (8000 worth) at no cost (for the tranny), so the 9000 I paid out of my pocket were not the worst investment, considering that I have now 2 years full warranty on pretty much everything under the hood and on the tranny.


Still, the fact remains that, as many of you mention, this shouldn't have happened in the first place to a car like BMW...
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:04 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamlord View Post
In fact, the turbo failure is nothing spectacular of unexpected, it's not that unnatural that they (depending on driving style) need to be replaced in the upper 60k-100k range.
This is crazy. Turbos are sure to fail at or before 100k, depending on driving style? Are you certain?

We buy and keep cars for a long time and wouldn't have bought this if known...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Who has a high mileage F01?
Yes, do tell.

Last edited by dbs600; 06-01-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
This is crazy. Turbos are sure to fail at or before 100k, depending on driving style? Are you certain?

We buy and keep cars for a long time and wouldn't have bought this if known...

.

Who's the we? At the moment, majority of the f01 owners here buy (or mostly lease) the car for the period of the warranty, in which it rarely reaches 60k miles if at all. In fact, they physically can't reach much over 30k miles since that's what the usual lease condition is, per se.
Whatever happens afterwards, we will see a couple of years later when the "second/third" generation of owners has bought those cars, and they're out of warranty, will be here with cars with high mileage and reporting all sorts of problems.

What is unclear about turbos failing sooner or later? It's just a relatively small part with some very highly stressed components, why wonder that it's bound to fail at some point? I mean, you don't expect a car to last forever without anything breaking, that would be pretty naive.


I didn't know you buy a car only if you're assured it will never break
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:58 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Originally Posted by beamlord View Post
Who's the we?

I mean, you don't expect a car to last forever without anything breaking, that would be pretty naive.
We meaning my family; we buy and keep forever (i.e.: 1994 Mercedes-Benz S500 since new).

I don't expect a major drivetrain component that's a lot to fix to break within the first 100k miles...

Last edited by dbs600; 06-02-2013 at 10:08 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:52 PM
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wjhughes420384 wjhughes420384 is offline
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I have taken the car to a BMW high performance Driving Event, and embarrassed a few corvettes and Porsches, (twice). the first turbo developed an oil leak, the second is indicating a boost fault. Most of my driving is highway.

the continental insurance is an aftermarket co, not a BMW branded insurance. I bought it because it was the only one I could find that went to 150k miles. I did not think the turbos would make it to 150k now it looks like they aren't going to make it twice. They reserve the right to replace failed parts with used parts, I am not willing to do that, so I pay the difference, I just look at it as a co pay, betting that by 150k miles, I will be ahead. The insurance cost me about $3600. so far(before this latest turbo thingy) they have paid out about $5000, so at this point I think I am winning.

I last bmw (740il) had 350k when I traded it in. my intent is to keep this car at least 10 yrs

I believe they are garrett turbos

Does anyone else have more mileage without the turbos going??
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  #17  
Old 06-02-2013, 07:42 PM
Akshun Akshun is offline
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Turbos lifespan 70k??

Don't know what everyone's talking about, but I believe in Consumer Reports which indicates that most BMWs fare avg to below avg in reliability depending upon the model, however they don't report on common catastrophic failure that's being noted in this forum. Everyone chill out. There's just no documented facts to support some of the issues that are illustrated here. Period.


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Old 06-03-2013, 06:38 PM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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I have been around these engines for a long time and I have not seen people blowing turbos at all, much less than blowing them under 75-100k. Fuel injectors, alternators, batteries- yes. But turbos seem to last fairly well. Now keep in mind statistically there will be some who go, that's just part of the numbers game...
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  #19  
Old 06-03-2013, 07:23 PM
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wjhughes420384 wjhughes420384 is offline
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I thought BMW only started going turbo in 09, I would like to believe that the tubos would last longer, and I have been doing some reading and it talks about letting your car warm up before you kick the turbos in the ass.
with my new set of turbos I plan on increasing the oil change interval(every 5k - its easy to remember) and following the warm up before pushing the turbos into action.
I do plan on a couple of track events each yr, but I think I will be more careful about the first and last lap to warm up and cool down the oil temps.(the oil tem went over 300)
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:43 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhughes420384 View Post
I thought BMW only started going turbo in 09
Do you mean in the 7 series? Or BMW in general? BMW has a long history of turbo engines:
1979 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_S...bocharged_745i
1983 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M21
1983 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M12

It's not exactly new technology, and I'd be surprised if BMW would get away with their turbos only lasting 70K. There's a class action lawsuit waiting in there, if not bad publicity. But I've also yet to hear about anyone going over 70K without issues. So I'm taking a wait and see and lease approach.
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  #21  
Old 06-03-2013, 07:54 PM
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I remember the 745,
but in the past they only experimented here and there with turbos. they did not do anywhere near as much turbos as they have since 09, I think everything is turbocharged now.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamlord View Post
As a new owner you shouldn't have much to worry about, it's a long way before you're at high mileage anyway.

And it's not just about the turbos. In fact, the turbo failure is nothing spectacular of unexpected, it's not that unnatural that they (depending on driving style) need to be replaced in the upper 60k-100k range.
But there is also - at least one, if not more that I don't know of - an intrinsic fabrication failure in the engine, namely the timing chain guide which breaks into small debris which clog the oil lines (including the oil lines for the turbos) which leads to
a) turbos failing / blowing up damaging the engine
b) engine itself failing

This is not just my fantasy, it almost happened to me - the debris were identified by chance during service - and while I was researching came to a lot of information about numerous similar cases. It's just that BMW will never openly admit that since it would lead to a financial disaster.

A replacement engine + labor runs at ~25.000 Euro which is way over 30k USD.

They goodwilled me 65% of the replacement engine (including 2x turbos, oil pump, etc.) and 65% of the labor but the "deal" was they will not give me any written response to the letter I wrote demanding explanation of such a failure and demanding the costs to be taken over by BMW. So I don't have them admitting their engine failed, officially.

The only positive thing out of this was I got the facelift engine and a new transmission (8000 worth) at no cost (for the tranny), so the 9000 I paid out of my pocket were not the worst investment, considering that I have now 2 years full warranty on pretty much everything under the hood and on the tranny.


Still, the fact remains that, as many of you mention, this shouldn't have happened in the first place to a car like BMW...
Timing chain guides fail as a result of them getting brittle. This is not a new issue for BMW or any cars for that matter. BMWs, Cadillacs, etc. The primary cause for this........LACK OF OIL CHANGES!!! These new Direct Injection engines will speed up these failures if you do not change your oil regularly. Do not follow BMW's recommended 15,000 mile oil change interval.

First of all, I don't even run the BMW Oil, I've only had one oil change performed by them so far and I ran the oil for less than 1,000 miles. I changed it out as soon as I had the time. We are all smart guys, why would BMW give you the best stuff for free? Why would BMW not try to stretch their Oil change Intervals as far as possible? Would they do the same thing if we were paying for the oil changes?

I personally recommend using either Lubromoly or Mobil 1 using the grade that has the BMW LL approval. Lubromoly 5W-30 is what goes in my car. My Oil change interval is typically 5-7k Miles. Why would I want to leave it in there for longer to potentially cause tens of thousands of dollars in damage down the road. An Oil change costs me about $100 in parts and I do it myself. The average Indy will probably cost you about $150 maybe a little more if you wanted a premium oil. Assuming the average driver drives 12k miles a year you're talking $300 a year to assure you won't have these problems down the line. It's a no brainer to me.

BMW can recommend an that interval because what's the chances that many people will have a catastrophic failure before the warranty is done. Do you think the oil change interval would change if they offered a 100k mile warranty? Would it change if we had to pay for our oil changes? At 8k miles the Mercedes dealer recommended my brother change the oil in his 2012 CLS 550. Very similar twin turbo, direct injection engine.........Why can our oil last twice as long? And by the way, they are using Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil. Who even makes the BMW Oil?

Sorry for the long rant but we should stop blaming BMW for us being naive. If you plan on keeping your F01/F02 for a awhile and plan getting to 100k miles then you should change your oil regularly with a high quality oil. If you plan on trading it in when the warranty is over who cares just let the dealer change the oil when they want to. Otherwise don't complain when you ignore the most important maintenance item on your car.
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  #23  
Old 06-03-2013, 10:46 PM
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I was under the impression that BMW has a lot of experience w/ turbo engines? I recall in Europe they've got turbo diesels, turbo 4, 6 (that we get here) etc. and have been doing so for years?

I don't like these 15k oil changes. Yes, both MB and even Lexus have shorter intervals. My mechanic doesn't like them either. BUT that said... I've seen folks send out their oil for analysis at the 15k mark and it comes back just fine (barring any other engine or system issues) vs. what you'd expect (like significatly more breakdown). So if the oil doesn't show significant breakdown, how does changing it more often make a difference to the timing chain guides?
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:30 AM
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Turbos lifespan 70k??

They may have had some, but for a long time BMW was the inline 6 and eschewed turbos, like they did 4WD. I remember their sales people telling me their traction control was almost as good as 4WD and turbos weren't reliable enough.

After a while, you don't keep bringing a knife to a gunfight.

But yeah, their service intervals are crazy, particularly with the turbo engines. We don't really know their longevity yet.


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Old 06-04-2013, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by aom7 View Post
I was under the impression that BMW has a lot of experience w/ turbo engines? I recall in Europe they've got turbo diesels, turbo 4, 6 (that we get here) etc. and have been doing so for years?

I don't like these 15k oil changes. Yes, both MB and even Lexus have shorter intervals. My mechanic doesn't like them either. BUT that said... I've seen folks send out their oil for analysis at the 15k mark and it comes back just fine (barring any other engine or system issues) vs. what you'd expect (like significatly more breakdown). So if the oil doesn't show significant breakdown, how does changing it more often make a difference to the timing chain guides?
..it doesn't.

The "change your oil as often as you can" is sponsored by the multi-billion oil industry and not by any possible common sense.

Like you mentioned, the oil is just fine and there's no scientific evidence of it losing it's most important qualities after said 15k miles.
I also chuckle at the religious differentiation between brands...Majority of them originates at the same places anyway..

It's like all those reeboks and nikes and pumas all of which are made in china from the same materials
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