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X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
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  #1  
Old 01-23-2017, 02:44 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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X5 E53 M54 2006 won't start all of sudden

Hi

I recently changed both sides fuel gauge and fuel pump. Car ran for 50 miles no issues. so i was changing the PS steering fluid and turn steering (when car was on) towards right and car died, and it is not starting up since then.

I think it could be fuel pump or fuel pump related, please advise where to start with?

Thanks,
Krishna
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2017, 03:50 PM
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acoste acoste is offline
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Does the starter turn the engine at normal speed?
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2017, 08:59 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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sorry, I did not get your question?

After changing fuel pump and gauge on both sides I put this one idle for 1 hour (may be too long), and also driven almost 50 Miles on day 1. and on Day 2 i.e. today, before changing Power Steering fluid I did drove 2 miles ( am working from home so not that much driving hence my battery dying very quickly) and then parked in my garage and change the PS fluid.

. Since I got a doubt whether PS fluid is cycling or not, while the engine is up and running I tried turn wheels all the way right and then to left ( but could do turn left).
. When I tried all the way right engine was also on and running until it reach the round (1 and half turn) on the last point I hold, and engine tried raising a bit and died.

NOTE: I did not close PS reservoir cap when I was turning wheels towards the right.

Hope I am clear!!
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  #4  
Old 01-23-2017, 10:10 PM
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acoste acoste is offline
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My question is what do you mean engine doesn't start?
The electric starter motor keeps cranking but the engine doesn't start?
> If yes, does the speed of the starter motor sound normal or is it very slow?
> If no, do you hear no sound at all when trying to start, or is there a single click coming from the starter motor?
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2017, 07:13 AM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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okay, in general when the battery is low it's kind of cranks like click click click but that is not the case and I am not hearing it.

Also, cluster showing all the lights...

I can clearly hear the engine start and then dies right immediately. it's not rolling at all.

Thanks,
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2017, 10:04 AM
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acoste acoste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkthoka712 View Post
I can clearly hear the engine start and then dies right immediately. it's not rolling at all.
that's a good information and I agree it does sound like a fuel delivery problem.

I would start with measuring the fuel pressure. But a stupid question first: you didn't run out of fuel, right? (maybe an incorrect reading of the new level sensors)
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2017, 10:45 AM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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I think that is a valid question too, I am going to following

1 ) take out the new FP and thinking to put old one or at least I try changing the ring around Fuel Pump.
2) Check Fuel Pressure
3) will need to change Spark Plugs, but hesitate do so many thing at the same, so one at a time


But, what I do not understand is the vehicle is running and it was idle, it got stops when it was breaching air and fuel (engine raised) when I tried turning steering one side. That is giving me 2 places A) Air Leaks 2) Fuel pressure or Fuel run. On other side cluster showing around 200 Miles

anyways will be checking this afternoon for F Pump and F Pressure.
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2017, 10:52 AM
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acoste acoste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkthoka712 View Post
But, what I do not understand is the vehicle is running and it was idle, it got stops when it was breaching air and fuel (engine raised) when I tried turning steering one side. That is giving me 2 places A) Air Leaks
Air leaks are more prominent at idle / no load. An example with imaginary numbers:
- Imagine it needs 10 units of air and 10 units of fuel to keep idle. 10% engine load. air/fuel = 1
- Now you want 20% engine load, so it will receive 20 units of air and 20 units of fuel. air/fuel = 1

> add an air leak to it, 2 units of air leak: 12 units of air and 10 units of fuel to keep idle. 10% engine load. air/fuel = 1.2
- Now you want 20% engine load, so it will receive 22 units of air and 20 units of fuel. air/fuel = 1.1

So it will actually have a better air/fuel ratio at higher loads.
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2017, 02:33 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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Okay, I open fuel pump side i.e. under the right rear seat where the fuel pump sitting. I see the whole tank is empty. That answer why the car is not starting.

But I got a question, which side left/right side tank empty first?

cluster showing less than 1/2 tank before I open fuse 47 from the glove box. After doing this it showing 1/4 tank interesting... )

This tells my fuel gage is not working properly, but which is not working I am not understanding. Can you help!!

-Krish
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:18 PM
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acoste acoste is offline
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Search online how to enter into the secret menu on the instrument cluster. There you can find the reading for the left and right fuel lever senders.

There is a jet pump that pulls over the fuel from the driver side to the pump. So the driver side becomes empty first. Maybe the level sender is fine, but not the jet pump?

EDIT: first I wrote passenger side accidentally
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Last edited by acoste; 01-25-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:24 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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i opened other side and found fuel under left side, so, I think first it empty right side and then to right side..

now, the answer i need is why fuel is not sucking by a pump from another side???..

THanks, Kris
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:33 PM
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This is what the documentation says:

Sucking jet pump (ejector) in fuel tank

The sucking jet pump is a part of the fuel tank and pumps fuel from the left-hand tank half into the right-hand half. Since the sucking jet pump delivers the fuel directly into the fuel baffle, it is always filled first, thus ensuring that the electrical fuel pump always has a maximum of fuel available.

The sucking jet pump is driven by the fuel in the return flow line. It is routed via a jet nozzle and accelerated through a narrow cross-section. The fuel flowing at high speed produces a vacuum which pumps the fuel from the left-hand tank half into the right-hand half.

To ensure that the fuel pressure produced by the constricted nozzle in the sucking jet pump cannot rise too high, a pressure relief valve is installed to limit this pressure. Too high a pressure would result in too high a fuel flow rate, thus restricting or cancelling fuel delivery.

A displaced nozzle of the sucking jet pump or a defective pressure relief valve result in the vehicle breaking down due to a fuel deficiency, although fuel is still indicated by the fuel gauge. In both cases fuel is no longer pumped from the left-hand tank half into the right-hand half.
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:37 PM
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and the diagram:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=16_0460
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2017, 09:22 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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nicely explained here

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...-jet-pump.html
and
https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...stic-help.html

I think,

1) I might not installed properly left side sensor (main tank)
2) Right side tank (surge or AKA reserve tank) fuel pump was not sitting properly, O at the neck not letting to go down pump all the way down, and I think this cause of pressure compromise.
At the same time, it was able to pump all the fuel on the right side but not sucking from the left side, which it suppose to 2nd link pics explains very clearly.

I will try to put old O-ring at neck of tank for Fuel Pump and test.. if that does not help then I will put old pump I took out ;( and check.. hope that helps !!!

3) I will slide in old pump and test...

thanks, Kris

Last edited by rkthoka712; 01-26-2017 at 10:07 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-26-2017, 02:16 PM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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X5 E53 M54 2006 won't start all of sudden

You need to determine if you have enough fuel flow/pressure returning to the jet pump and if there is a leak where the jet pump attaches to the sending unit.

I had two massive leaks at the connection points of the jet pump.

Easy to test:

put at least two gallons of gas into the tank (more won't help it will just spill into left side)

start the car (helps to spray some starting fluid into air intake after run dry )
lift the sending unit about an inch and determine if gas is spraying out anywhere. In my case was like a garden hose!

My first bet is a leak where return gas connects to the jet pump. Their is a connection that doesn't have an o-ring that probably should. I added one to fix the problems.



In the pic above you can see the distorted "pear-ring" (definitely not an "O " ) but that's the part meant to come apart.

The second connection I think is meant to be permanent had no o-ring but was where my car was leaking gas like crazy.

If you don't have a leak in your return line you want to check these items:

pressure in return line 1 to 1.3 bar
pressure relief valve on right side of the tank not leaking.

Those items cover the 95% chance items. There are more but they are very fringe and very unlikely.

Did you disassemble the jet pump connection at the base or only where the o-ring is?

I suspect a design flaw causes that joint to leak eventually and a lot of people are replacing a lot of parts when they really just need 10 wraps or teflon*

*or gas-friendly equivalent.

Last edited by andrewwynn; 01-26-2017 at 02:37 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:35 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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@andrewwynn:

Thank for your input, I walk through your thread last night and determine checkpoints.

I perform these tests

1) on right side took out the new one and replaced my old pump.
After close observation the part is not close to the OEM, submerged pump size and capacity are different so raised refund Amazon going to returning the funds.

2) On Left side, I took out assembly and found that O-ring is very tiny, so good thing is I have my OLD one so I replaced OLD ring to the new assembly and installed.

The good part is both assemblies securely tighten ( first time New one on the Right side did not sit properly). and put 1 Gallon and started the engine and it started. Okay, I am not happy yet because I am not sure how this behave, probably it is using 1 Gallon I put in the right pocket, tomorrow I will fill up whole tank and observer OBC Test 06 as you described.

and if this does not fix then I have to return left sensor and buy new one cause I broke old one while taking it out

here is OBC Test 06 reading showing --- sorry do not know how to post pic.. 25.2 L/ 0.6L / 25.9 L
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  #17  
Old 01-26-2017, 08:04 PM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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X5 E53 M54 2006 won't start all of sudden

Your left sensor is giving an appropriate reading.

You don't want to add more gas, the one gallon in the well on the right should get the system going and fill the well from the 25L on the left side.

Run the car while the 6.0 test is up and the right side should climb a bit as the well fills up. If it drops shut off the engine the siphon is not working. In testing I've taken some hard right turns to spill out a few L of gas right to 000 reading on right tank and it takes mere seconds to refil back to 1.4L in my case.

I bought this pump for a mere $120 and am very happy with it I will buy the same pump for my car.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FF4VQGM...zczdRSdbq5LFf.

There is a lot of change in technology over time so there may no be an important enough difference in your pump to warrant return but I'd like to know more details.

If your old pump outputs more pressure and volume I would send back the new pump. Did you determine the exact failure point? I may have missed it.

Last edited by andrewwynn; 01-26-2017 at 08:07 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-26-2017, 09:52 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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Think below are reasons

1) For sure I bought a wrong pump, image from the link you sent exact match of my old pump.
The new one did not sit completely into the well, though o-ring at neck giving kind of air leak but I still suspect they may be a vacuum leak.

2) on left side new one is perfectly sitting into well, however, new 0-ring is very tiny, so I changed that one and installed

expecting these will fix the issue

if the issue still persists thenI have to hook the AutoZone pressure test kit, I have to search on youtube how to use it ...
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2017, 12:52 AM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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Once you have the proper pump installed I would check the jet pump side to make sure no leaks.
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Old 01-27-2017, 01:52 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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The battery has to be trickled since it was not having enough to start the engine. So overnight charged the battery with BMW (BMW 4.3 Battery Charger https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

So finally started the engine and also OBC Test 6, and here are the results.. 25.5 L/2.9 L/28.4 L, and what I noticed was right side it jumped from 0.6 L to 2.6 L. This does not surprise me because yesterday I put 1 Gallon of the gas into the tank (right side) that should be equal to 3.785 L. Probable after recharging the battery they started showing correct numbers...

@andrewwynn, may I know how long did you run the vehicle before noticing the changes in OBC Test 6 results (right side tank )

I am bit overconfident so I have bolted and put back seat
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  #21  
Old 01-28-2017, 09:37 AM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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I drove a little bit and then put the gas full tank (may be too early to fill ), after coming home I park X5 on the drive with the light angle and it was in idle for 2 minutes and started seeing kind of white smoke coming from vents or from behind the engine bay. I do not know whether it is safe to drive or check little more...

many other posts saying its GCV may be bad I do not understand changing FP and gauge caused it. I think when the pump was not working tried to start many times was that pumped too much into wolves? because I fill the tank caused this!! not sure how and why?

-Kris
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2017, 12:43 AM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkthoka712 View Post

So finally started the engine and also OBC Test 6, and here are the results.. 25.5 L/2.9 L/28.4 L, and what I noticed was right side it jumped from 0.6 L to 2.6 L. This does not surprise me because yesterday I put 1 Gallon of the gas into the tank (right side) that should be equal to 3.785 L. Probable after recharging the battery they started showing correct numbers...

Take note that you added 3.8L but only 2.0L ended up showing up in test six


Quote:
Originally Posted by rkthoka712 View Post
@andrewwynn, may I know how long did you run the vehicle before noticing the changes in OBC Test 6 results (right side tank )

I am bit overconfident so I have bolted and put back seat

Moments only. You can test if your jet pump is working properly by making a hard right turn. Take note that the right pump value will drop a lot and then slowly build back up to the baseline value.

Do you have 6 or 8 cylinder engine? Ours are both 6 and the baseline value is 1.4L for my wife's car.

It was 0.9L before I replaced the main fuel pump. It was 1.1L until I fixed the jet pump.

Smoke from engine usually is spilled or leaked oil. I would remove the shields under and get a good look.

Wife's x5 had a leaky seal on engine side of right CV. It sprayed engine oil everywhere and make a lot of white smoke.

If oil level isn't dropping precipitously it's not likely a huge concern just keep eliminating one thing then another until found.
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  #23  
Old 02-01-2017, 03:16 PM
rkthoka712 rkthoka712 is offline
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@andrewwynn

thanks for amazon fuel pump link, that is really and sides in with no issues. Hope my issues all are fixed, planning to hit road in few minutes and post you my findings soon..

thanks again.
-krishna.
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  #24  
Old 02-01-2017, 05:18 PM
andrewwynn andrewwynn is offline
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Use test six and watch the values. The right side should average a fairly constant number when on level ground driving. (My case 1.4L).

To confirm jet pumps are working you have to drive down to empty. Best to put a gas can in the boot and drive until single digits distance to go.

If you have the value from the wrong pump installed you should see a larger number now. With my soft failed pump I saw 0.9L and went to 1.1L with new pump and to 1.4L when I solved the leaky seal on the jet pump.
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