Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E36 (1991 - 1999)

E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #126  
Old 09-20-2013, 08:23 PM
drivinfaster's Avatar
drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: in the sticks you piney
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,636
Mein Auto: rescued bmw's
i dig!!


as for the heater bypass, just connect the hoses together from the block. mine was bypassed when i got it, and eventually i got around to fixing it. i just do not remember what went where.....but i don't remember any difficulties in getting it repaired. it seemed fairly self explanitory.

perhaps you could even manage to plumb the bypass if you are not going to run the coolant to the throttle plate.




df
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:00 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Quote:
Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
i dig!!


as for the heater bypass, just connect the hoses together from the block. mine was bypassed when i got it, and eventually i got around to fixing it. i just do not remember what went where.....but i don't remember any difficulties in getting it repaired. it seemed fairly self explanitory.

perhaps you could even manage to plumb the bypass if you are not going to run the coolant to the throttle plate.
df
Thanks.
Ok, so there are only two hoses coming from the block and the third hose comes from somewhere else? What size pipe is needed to connect the hoses?

Last edited by jimgood; 09-22-2013 at 05:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:35 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
I started on the seat mount yesterday. I didn't make nearly as much progress as I'd hoped.

I started with the mounting holes in the base of the seat. I used a piece of 1/8" plate to make a pattern of the holes. At first I thought I was going to incorporate the plate to mount the seat but the more I thought about it a different design emerged.

This is the hole pattern in the seat:


This is the plate onto which I transfered hole pattern. The pattern is not as symmetrical as it appears. I used a magnet to hold the plate in place under the holes and a marker to mark through the holes onto the plate.



I wanted to use the 1" square tubing I have on hand to make the seat mount so I came up with this design. This is only the first part. There will be more to it. The seat mounts on the center section and the outriggers will use the stock seat mounting bolts. The outriggers have to be modified at the front because the stock front mounts are on studs that are too short to go through the 1" tube. I'll also have to source longer bolts to screw into the stock rear mounting holes.



So here's center section that supports the seat bottom. I used the plate as a drill template. First I clamped and drilled the long pieces then bolted them to the plate, ensuring that the ends were the same distance apart. Then I measured the size for the short cross pieces, cut and fitted them, then marked the holes with a marker. I put them on the drill press and cut the holes. Then I put bolts through all the holes, snugged it up and welded the seams on the top and partially between. I couldn't see very well. My shop has crappy lighting so it's hard to even see if I'm starting my welds where I want them.



Lots of weld spatter. I haven't cleaned these up yet. Since this is the top side, I have to grind the welds down a little so there's a smooth mating surface with the seat. But before I do all that, I'll weld the other side. You can see where I completely missed the joint on the lower bead and had to go over it again.



Ok, off to get some breakfast and then back into the shop to make more mess.

Last edited by jimgood; 09-22-2013 at 05:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:36 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Here's the center piece all cleaned up and mounted on the seat.



Here's what I'm thinking for the side mount. I won't actually use all three holes at each mounting point. Just the middle one. This will also be made from 1" square tube. The position fore and aft will depend on final positioning of the seat in the car.



Finally, the outriggers will continue down to the floor in front of and behind the stock mounting points for a 8-point mount. I'll also add some gussets to strengthen the diagonals against lateral movement.



All this is a lot of trouble to go through and will certainly be heavier than a "store-bought" mount. But this is dirt cheap (a few bucks for the tubing and welding consumables) and I think it's going to be stronger laterally.

One side note: I set the seat in the car and found that the shoulder restraints will probably contact the door. I may have to remove some metal from the top of the door to make room for it. More on that later.

Last edited by jimgood; 09-22-2013 at 09:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:22 PM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Ow!! It hurts!! Take it out!!

13500 feet per minute isn't that fast but I guess it's enough to stick a wire in my belly.

Edit: should have said...this was done with 4 1/2" angle grinder with a wire wheel


Last edited by jimgood; 09-22-2013 at 07:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:40 PM
TheFinanceGuy's Avatar
TheFinanceGuy TheFinanceGuy is offline
still learnin'
Location: Boston Metro West (BMW)
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,915
Mein Auto: 1998 328i / 99 540iA
Jim's 323is thread

Um. OUCH!


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
Patrick ///04 330i ZHP///BMWCCA#465139



99 540i TiAg
98 328i hellrot (sold)
96 318iC black (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:09 PM
dc_wright's Avatar
dc_wright dc_wright is online now
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Orlando, Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,528
Send a message via ICQ to dc_wright
Mein Auto: '96 328iC, '04 325Ci
13500 feet per min is about 2/3 Daisy Red Ryder BB gun velocity and those wire wheel bristles are pretty sharp........

Glad it was just in the belly and not an eye!
__________________
2006 Z4 3.0si Sport Package (But I'll still hang with my "homies" in the E36 forum)
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:02 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinanceGuy View Post
Um. OUCH!


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
13500 feet per min is about 2/3 Daisy Red Ryder BB gun velocity and those wire wheel bristles are pretty sharp........

Glad it was just in the belly and not an eye!
Now that I think about it, it works out to 153 mph. So that's humming right along. I was wearing eye protection. Maybe next time I'll wear full body armor.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:30 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
After I got to looking at the seat, I'm thinking of something more like this. With just the top part and two legs on each side, I can put the seat in the car and figure out the positioning. The tricky part is that the outboard legs will be on a raised part of the floor and the inboard legs will be on the flat(ter) part of the floor. But this way, I can move it forward and backward to get that just right. Then I can adjust the height and tilt by cutting the legs. Once that's figured out, I can weld it all together.

Hey, I'm winging it. It's an adventure. Nothing will be permanently attached so I can get a NASA scrutineer to look at it and tell me how it's going to kill me. Then I can cut it up for scrap and start over.


Last edited by jimgood; 09-23-2013 at 07:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 09-23-2013, 02:54 PM
dc_wright's Avatar
dc_wright dc_wright is online now
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Orlando, Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,528
Send a message via ICQ to dc_wright
Mein Auto: '96 328iC, '04 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgood View Post
Now that I think about it, it works out to 153 mph. So that's humming right along. I was wearing eye protection. Maybe next time I'll wear full body armor.
Nah, just man up, pluck that sucker out, walk it off, and get back to work!

But seriously you don't think about those things having that kind of velocity until one comes off or apart. I was using my roto zip with a cut off wheel and the wheel came apart. A pretty good sized piece of it embedded itself in the ceiling of the garage....

I was trying keep myself out of the plane of rotation of the wheel but after that I was holding that thing at arms length.
__________________
2006 Z4 3.0si Sport Package (But I'll still hang with my "homies" in the E36 forum)
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 09-23-2013, 05:56 PM
drivinfaster's Avatar
drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: in the sticks you piney
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,636
Mein Auto: rescued bmw's
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgood View Post
Now that I think about it, it works out to 153 mph. So that's humming right along. I was wearing eye protection. Maybe next time I'll wear full body armor.
lol @ the full body armor...don't give osha any ideas!!!!



but yeah, i am amazed when i drive by construction guys cutting pipe, concrete, jackhammers, and whatnot without eye protection...

that's one thing my grandpa drilled into my head is safetyglasses. he said you could walk with a wooden leg, eat with false teeth, but you can't see out of a glass eye.


and @ don,...yeah, those wheels can be high velocity projectiles....that's why i would cringe when seeing one of the guys at the shop trying to force the blade through an exhaust clamp or some other bracket and wind up getting it jammed in there on an angle.

or worse, drop the tool down to the floor by the airhose and let the cutting disc come in contact with the floor....*bam*, and chip it.




anyway, carry one jim,...




df
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 09-24-2013, 02:49 PM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
So, after recovering from a trip to the emergency room for a piece of wire in my belly...

I cut and welded the side supports for the seat. The legs are not even but that's okay because they have to get cut again anyway to line up with the floor. I can't tell if one leg is shorter than the others or weld distortion caused it. I'll take them off and compare them tomorrow. I intentionally cut them long so that, hopefully, all I have to do is cut them to make them fit. I know on the inboard side it's going to be a PITA because the legs will be meeting the slope coming off the drive train tunnel. On the outboard side they'll sit on top of a raised part that is flat on top.


Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 09-28-2013, 05:33 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
This week was really slow at work so I was able to take some time off. I really didn't accomplish much. I redesigned how I wanted to do the bottom rails of the seat mount. I'll post up pics later today or tomorrow. I'm at work now supporting a software release so I figure, while I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for the client to give the all clear, I might as well post something semi-useful.

The OEM seat mounts are canted about 6.5 degrees to the rear (i.e. high in the front, low in the back). They're too low to form a plane onto which to mount the Kirkey seat as the angle would cause the seat to be too reclined. I'm sure it would be comfortable, but I believe that the racing seat is set at a 20 degree layback to reduce spinal compression in a frontal crash. But don't quote me on that.

Anyway, I want the bottom rail of the mount to be level. To do that, I cut four pieces of 1.75" tubing. To the bottom of each piece of tube, I welded a 1/8" plate such that it forms a cup. The center of the plate is drilled with a 10 mm hole (actually 25/64"). This fits the OEM seat mount bolts. The front cups are 1" tall and the rear are 2 1/8" tall. These are bolted to the OEM seat mounts. Between these will be welded 1" square tube. This will form a level square platform onto which the rest of the mount will be attached. I think the seat will end up offset about 1" inboard to be centered with the steering wheel axis.

This is sort of what I'm talking about.



That's where I left off. I have to drag a bunch of tools from the house to the car so I don't have to make a thousand trips back and forth fitting the tubes between the cups. I'll also tack weld them while the cups are bolted down in order to ensure the best possible positioning. This will help keep the inevitable weld distortion to a minimum.

I can't do the final positioning of the seat until I have the pad, which is on back order. I hope it's not too much longer, otherwise I have to go back to removing the A/C and heater box, which I dread.

BTW, to help with the angles, I used one of these from HF. I like it.

Last edited by jimgood; 09-28-2013 at 06:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 09-28-2013, 05:47 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Almost forgot. I purchased this pipe notcher a couple of weeks ago, knowing that I might have to notch some of the roll cage tubing. I took it out the other day to check it out and found that the angle adjustment would not come up to 90 degrees. I was tempted to send it back but, instead, I took it to a local machine shop to have them cut the slots a little longer.

Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 09-28-2013, 06:45 AM
drivinfaster's Avatar
drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: in the sticks you piney
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,636
Mein Auto: rescued bmw's
how does that tool *not* go to 90 degrees??!!

let me guess, it 'says' 90, but only goes to about 80??


like the angle guage as well. magnetic is nice. unless you're working on aluminum....



looking forward to the pics!!




df
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 09-28-2013, 09:39 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Quote:
Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
how does that tool *not* go to 90 degrees??!!

let me guess, it 'says' 90, but only goes to about 80??


like the angle guage as well. magnetic is nice. unless you're working on aluminum....



looking forward to the pics!!




df
I didn't measure the exact angle but its max is probably about 88 degrees. If I loosen the mount where the drill spindle goes through and twist it hard then retighten it, it's about 89 degrees. Frankly, that's good enough for welding in most cases. But when I want a 90 degree angle, I want a damn 90 degree angle!
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 09-28-2013, 09:42 AM
ZeGerman's Avatar
ZeGerman ZeGerman is offline
Warm Leatherette
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,503
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 328is
I'm surprised that it had that design flaw. I'd expect that sort of issue with something from Harbor Freight, but typically products from Eastwood are pretty good.
__________________

1998 BMW 328is
1966 Pontiac GTO
2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5-door
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 09-28-2013, 02:22 PM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
I'm surprised that it had that design flaw. I'd expect that sort of issue with something from Harbor Freight, but typically products from Eastwood are pretty good.
I thought so too. That's why I paid 20 extra bucks for the one from Eastwood.

The two are very similar. I think the bolt-on components are identical.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 09-28-2013, 04:31 PM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Okay, I know you're on pins and needles waiting for this update.

So this is my latest monstrosity. These are the cups bolted in place as I described above. The tubes will basically be placed as shown here, only level with the top of each cup. I have a sneaking suspicion that my current mount for the seat bottom will end up very close to, if not on top of the rear cups. If that's the case, I'll have to redesign that mount.



Here's a close up of one of the cups with the square tube notched and fitted. Since I didn't have my notcher (and it's really made for round tube, not square), this was done by hand with a file. The side rails have to be notched at an angle so I couldn't even use my drill press and the hole saw since my drill press doesn't have an angle adjustment.



This gave me some insight into the difficulty of determining the length to cut a tube that will be notched. It's not that straightforward. For example, the distance between the cups is the distance between the deepest part of the notches at each end of the tube. The length to cut the tube to fit between the cups will be, in this case, 4 mm longer on each end; 4 mm being the depth of the notch. So, fitting a 1" square tube against a 1.75" round tube produces a notch of that depth. If I was using 1.5" square tube, the notch would be deeper and the cut length longer.

Yeah, I know. I'm mixing my units. Here's the basic idea though.


Last edited by jimgood; 09-28-2013 at 04:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 09-28-2013, 05:56 PM
drivinfaster's Avatar
drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: in the sticks you piney
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,636
Mein Auto: rescued bmw's
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgood View Post
I didn't measure the exact angle but its max is probably about 88 degrees. If I loosen the mount where the drill spindle goes through and twist it hard then retighten it, it's about 89 degrees. Frankly, that's good enough for welding in most cases. But when I want a 90 degree angle, I want a damn 90 degree angle!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
I'm surprised that it had that design flaw. I'd expect that sort of issue with something from Harbor Freight, but typically products from Eastwood are pretty good.
but,...but,...but the guage says 90*??!!!



and yeah, i, um,...think i read about that sort of thing with cutting pieces to be assembled to round parts..... uh-huh.....that's what had happened, see...





df
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 09-30-2013, 06:23 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Here's the completed frame for the bottom seat mount. I'm working from home today so at lunch I'll put the seat in the car and see how it sits. There's a good chance that the bottom seat mount that I made earlier will be positioned over the rear cups. If that's the case, I'll have to redesign it.



Here's a close up of a rear cup fully welded. Not bad if I do say so myself.

Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:59 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
I worked a little more on positioning the seat. This seems to be about where I need it but I'm not making anything permanent until I have the padding and can test my position with it in place.

This is the area left over for getting out without being able to open the door. This is another thing I'll have to test before I permanently mount the seat. Seems like a tight squeeze.


Now that the seat is moved inboard a couple of inches, there is plenty of room for the shoulder brace. So I won't have to cut into the door.


In order to move the seat inboard, I had to add these extensions onto the bottom seat mount. This is just temporary so I can position the seat. When I finally figure out where it needs to sit, that whole bottom mount will get reconfigured so that it doesn't interfere with accessing the cups in the lower frame. I obviously didn't need that extension on the rear tube.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 10-13-2013, 03:04 AM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Looks like I'm going to have trouble with the guy from whom I ordered the seat pad. To recap, I ordered my cage, seat and seat pad from company here in VA. I picked up the cage and seat, but the pad was back ordered.

I called him Thursday to get a status and he never called me back. It's been on back order for at least a month, maybe two.

I went to OG Racing, which is right near where I work, and they had one in stock. So I went ahead and purchased it.

Anyway, I finally was able to test the seat position with the pad in place and it's perfect. Trying to finish up the seat mount this weekend. It's going to have a lot of complicated angles so we'll see. I have to cut up the side rails that I made earlier. It shouldn't be a big deal but they are a little more difficult to position on the saw because they have weld beads on them now.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 10-13-2013, 09:59 AM
dc_wright's Avatar
dc_wright dc_wright is online now
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Orlando, Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,528
Send a message via ICQ to dc_wright
Mein Auto: '96 328iC, '04 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgood View Post
This is the area left over for getting out without being able to open the door. This is another thing I'll have to test before I permanently mount the seat. Seems like a tight squeeze.

Guess you're going out the back window or passenger side if needed.......

Maybe you don't want to weld in that sunroof panel after all?
__________________
2006 Z4 3.0si Sport Package (But I'll still hang with my "homies" in the E36 forum)
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 10-13-2013, 02:32 PM
jimgood jimgood is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Marshall, VA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Mein Auto: 1998 323is
Finally! Some progress!

Starting to look like a seat mount now. I'm debating putting two more mounts from the frame to the floor. I'm not sure I need them. It's already pretty heavy (@ 10 lbs). There is still a requirement for a seat back brace so the added floor mounts are really just overkill. Before I do anything else I'm going to put it in the car one more time and sit in it just to be sure I like it. It's at a point now where it won't move around when I sit my big ass in it. After that, I'll finish welding it up. Then just need to clean it up and paint it.

The front support on the inboard side (second pic) took a long time because it had compound angles. Lots of trips to the grinder and test fitting to make it work. but I think it came out pretty nice.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E36 (1991 - 1999)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms