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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:29 AM
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F30 335i Sedan voted 'The sportiest car of 2013'

BMW F30 335i sportiest car of 2013

The readers of the specialist German magazine "Sport Auto" have named three current BMW models as "The sportiest cars of 2013", expressing their preference for pure driving pleasure. In the diesel category, the BMW M550d xDrive was voted into first place again, continuing the trend it set the previous year. Two more first-in-class awards were won by the BMW 335i Sedan and the BMW 335i Coupe. This hat trick, the triple triumph in the current readers' vote, builds on the excellent results regularly achieved by BMW over a number of years in this definitive, long-established ballot. The "Sport Auto" Awards 2013 will be presented on 12th June 2013 at the Kunstmuseum Stuttgart.

BMW is pleased to have achieved a first place in the category of "Sedans costing under 50,000 Euros". For the first time, the new BMW 335i Sedan was voted number one. However, this year's success is really just the continuation of an established tradition, as the predecessor model had already been voted the sportiest car in its class three times in a row in previous years. Similarly, the class entitled "Coupes costing under 50,000 Euros" was also clearly dominated by BMW. With this year's vote, the BMW 335i Coupe has now been named top of its class by "Sport Auto" readers for the third time in a row. The major similarity between these two habitual winners and their decisive success factor is the inline six-cylinder engine equipped with BMW TwinPower Turbo technology. The 225 kW, 306 hp power unit has all of the characteristic virtues of the other six-cylinder BMW engines - a crisp, spontaneous response, superior high-revving characteristics and awesome running refinement - all of which are exhibited in a particularly efficient manner. An unparalleled balance between driving pleasure and fuel economy is achieved by combining a turbocharger working on the twin-scroll principle, with the High Precision Fuel Injection System and fully variable VALVETRONIC valve control.

BMW F10 M550d

With the world's most powerful six-cylinder diesel engine under the bonnet, the BMW M550d xDrive confidently lined up at this year's "Sport Auto" Awards to defend its title. With its three-stage turbo-charging and common-rail direct injection, the 3.0 litre engine develops a maximum output of 280 kW/381 hp and delivers a maximum torque of 740 newton meters. The specific chassis technology and aerodynamic balance, matched with typical M precision to the performance characteristics of the engine, crown the first-class sportiness of the most powerful diesel member of the BMW 5 Series. These attributes are shared by the BMW M550d xDrive Sedan and the BMW M550d xDrive Touring. These two models provide a sporty, exhilarating ride while never losing sight of their commitment to contemporary standards, achieving an average fuel consumption of 6.2 and 6.3 litres per 100 kilometres respectively, as determined by the EU test cycle.

The annual poll to determine the "sportiest cars" was carried out for the first time in 1980. This year, around 15,300 readers participated in the ballot. They were asked to name their favorite cars in 15 categories of production vehicles and in a further 10 classes for tuned vehicles, from a total of 230 current models.

Last edited by tim330i; 06-13-2013 at 08:33 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:21 AM
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F30 335i Sedan voted 'The sportiest car of 2013'

That's because they never drove 328i ...

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  #3  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:01 AM
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That's because they never drove 328i ...

That's BECAUSE they drove a 328i



Nice to see that they recognized that the N55 made the difference. Crystal clear to me.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:39 AM
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That's BECAUSE they drove a 328i



Nice to see that they recognized that the N55 made the difference. Crystal clear to me.
Haha, THIS! The 328i was so lackluster when compared to the 335i (Based on my testdrive). Easily worth the extra cost.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:44 AM
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The award score (for those keeping track):

328i - 26

335i - 1

You keep going, you little 335i. At this rate, you'll have 6 victories under your belt by the time BMW retires you in 2015 as the 320i's volume renders you needless.

BJ
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:18 PM
Thyrilumi Thyrilumi is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The award score (for those keeping track):

328i - 26

335i - 1

You keep going, you little 335i. At this rate, you'll have 6 victories under your belt by the time BMW retires you in 2015 as the 320i's volume renders you needless.

BJ
Source regarding this?
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:30 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Source regarding this?
Just to keep this civil. There are times when professional judging has preferred the 328 to the 335. Recently The 328 MSport was chosen over the ATS and IS base engine cars while the 335 MSport lost to the larger engined IS, in other words the 328 has been doing better in head to heads than the 335.

I will copy and paste the same thing I posted earlier that sums them all up:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
This will be my definitive 328 vs 335 post after collecting articles here and there.

So, there are two perspectives.

One, the general public who are wowed by the additional power on a test drive of the 335. Let's be honest, the difference in power is easily felt, and it's easily noticed by most people and rather quickly.

But I did want to share notes from professional testing, people who drive these cars for days, on the roads, road trips, the track and drove BOTH 335 and 328. This isn't one of those, well I had a loaner for an hour kind of crap.

Here are some excerpts that describe that scenario:



"As for the BMW, well, since we first drove the new 335i, no one on staff has been particularly smitten. The consensus is that the 328i is a better-driving car."

"Part of the problem is that, while the 328i's suspension feels properly tuned, the 335i's feels as if BMW just dropped in a heavier, more powerful engine and didn't bother recalibrating anything"

"3rd Place: BMW 335i Sport
Expensive, though the underrated engine does give you loads of power. Damping rates too soft for a car with so much grunt."

-MotorTrend 2/13

Notes: They mentioned how the 328 dominated the 8 car test:

"When we did that eight-car comparison the 328i won, I remember getting out of the other cars, climbing into the BMW, and thinking, 'This is it. This is how you do it.' I had the same feeling today driving the Cadillac ATS."



The writers go a bit overboard in the declaration again on the Motor Trend blog:

"The 328i is a better car than its sibling, the more powerful, more expensive 2012 BMW 335i."

"The engine is just one more part that makes the 328i feel like the better product. Put another way, the three editors on staff that spent considerable time in each, all preferred the slower, cheaper 328i."

-Motor Trend Written by: Jonny Lieberman on March 7 2012 12:00 PM

Honestly, MotorTrend sounds a bit more neutral with this blurb from their first test of the 335:

"The 335i seems portly -- the scales show 3586 pounds and a front/rear distribution of 51/49 percent -- but that weight actually matches that of the last 335i coupe we tested. Versus the four-cylinder 328i, it carries 100 extra pounds. Where do you think that weight comes from? A hundred points if you guessed the front axle. The added weight is noticeable after back-to-back drives with the 328i, but equally noticeable is the extra forward thrust the 335i so readily supplies. A slightly heavier nose or more power? Decisions, decisions."

-MotorTrend By Carlos Lago | February 28, 2012


So now, we have the added power of the 335, and it loses to it's competition(Lexus IS350, the S4, the ATS 3.6) and they clearly state the suspension tuning is not well calibrated to the car. This mind set that more power=better, I am sorry is a fallacy. If people say I enjoy the extra power of the 335, I am all for it. I would often make the same choice. But the idea that more power makes the 335 better than the 328 by default-eh, that I don't know about. Fact is, the 328 does a better job of slaying the competition than the 335. Only when it gets on these forums are we pitting them against each other and playing up the power of the 335 and downplaying the 328. In the E90 days, it was much easier to differentiate camps.

You can flame all you want. But that is the feedback from professionals that spent time in both cars. I had a week in a 335 about a week after I owned my 328. Honestly, the power is clearly there, and for many it's a no brainer, combine that with the better engine/intake note. But there is a idea that the 328 only handles better on a race track. I did not fine that to be true as did professional writers.

So to me, there is no winner or loser when we pit the two cars against each other. Neither owner got it WRONG. The statements that someone only buys a 328 because they are too poor to afford a 335 is just as silly as saying there is no power advantage felt by the 335 or no handling advantage to the 328.

/my 328 vs 335 debate.
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:35 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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That's because they never drove 328i ...

That's because they never drove the ATS...
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:43 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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That's because they never drove the ATS...
The ATS I think has the most sporting handling/steering in the class, but the drivetrain is very much the heart of a sporting car. Whether it be the 2.0T/6mt vs the N20 or the 3.6/6spd vs the N55/8spd, the F30 has the superior drivetrains.

This may be cured with the ATS-V with a TT-V6 and manual combo, I will look very closely at that car.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2013, 01:01 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The ATS I think has the most sporting handling/steering in the class, but the drivetrain is very much the heart of a sporting car. Whether it be the 2.0T/6mt vs the N20 or the 3.6/6spd vs the N55/8spd, the F30 has the superior drivetrains.

This may be cured with the ATS-V with a TT-V6 and manual combo, I will look very closely at that car.
I wouldn't say superior, more specifically the 2.0T models have very similar engines. Both made the "Wards" best engines list and both produce nearly identical DYNO numbers. The OEM tunning is a little better on the N20 but unlike the ATS it does require premium fuel. The manual transmission is the culprit here being criticized for its gearing and being a bit notchy. It is certainly an issue but not a deal breaker. Given BMW's and GM's history with turbo engines I think I would prefer the GM unit over the long run.

Last edited by LegendsNeverDie; 06-13-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-13-2013, 01:11 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I wouldn't say superior, more specifically the 2.0T models have very similar engines. Both made the "Wards" best engines list and both produce nearly identical DYNO numbers. The OEM tunning is a little better on the N20 but unlike the ATS it does require premium fuel. The manual transmission is the culprit here being criticized for its gearing and being a bit notchy. It is certainly an issue but not a deal breaker. Given BMW's and GM's history with turbo engines I think I would prefer the GM unit over the long run.
I have not read a single comparison of both 4s that did not mention preference for the N20. Call that what ever you choose. BMW has the superior drive train.
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:24 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I have not read a single comparison of both 4s that did not mention preference for the N20. Call that what ever you choose. BMW has the superior drive train.
While the transmission/engine combo is without a doubt better in the 328 in the case of the turbo fours, the N20 by itself is hardly superior.

"More than that, the chassis feels more responsive, firmer, tauter. The Caddy's engine feels punchier mid-range, and while the engine note isn't what you'd call melodic, it's a little louder and rawer. If the BMW is the Beatles, the Cadillac is the Rolling Stones. There's that much more aggression and drive to the ATS; that uncompromised driving experience that sadly no longer exists in the 3 Series"

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2WDCJdMFO

"Where the car still falls short is the powertrain. Don't get me wrong -- the 2.0 turbo I4 is the engine to have in the ATS, vastly better in this car than the 3.6-liter V6. The transmission is still flabby, though, even in so-called sport mode; I prefer this engine to the turbo BMW I4, but the Caddy's gearbox just can't compete with the BMW's eight-speed automatic.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...#ixzz2WDD4N8oR
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook

"It turns out these two modern turbo 2.0L DI fours are quite similar. The BMW ekes out a smidge more peak torque and holds its power better at high revs, but the general character is essentially interchangeable among the two engines. Neither are particularly rev-happy things, but there's solid meat in both torque curves where it's suitable for everyday driving."

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...illac-ats.html

Last edited by LegendsNeverDie; 06-14-2013 at 10:34 AM.
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:58 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
While the transmission/engine combo is without a doubt better in the 328 in the case of the turbo fours, the N20 by itself is hardly superior.

"More than that, the chassis feels more responsive, firmer, tauter. The Caddy's engine feels punchier mid-range, and while the engine note isn't what you'd call melodic, it's a little louder and rawer. If the BMW is the Beatles, the Cadillac is the Rolling Stones. There's that much more aggression and drive to the ATS; that uncompromised driving experience that sadly no longer exists in the 3 Series"

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2WDCJdMFO

"Where the car still falls short is the powertrain. Don't get me wrong -- the 2.0 turbo I4 is the engine to have in the ATS, vastly better in this car than the 3.6-liter V6. The transmission is still flabby, though, even in so-called sport mode; I prefer this engine to the turbo BMW I4, but the Caddy's gearbox just can't compete with the BMW's eight-speed automatic.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...#ixzz2WDD4N8oR
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"It turns out these two modern turbo 2.0L DI fours are quite similar. The BMW ekes out a smidge more peak torque and holds its power better at high revs, but the general character is essentially interchangeable among the two engines. Neither are particularly rev-happy things, but there's solid meat in both torque curves where it's suitable for everyday driving."

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...illac-ats.html

Ha, your first two sources prove your argument. Your third proves mine-having more torque and more power at higher revs is something I find appealing-no?

How about some more sources to validate my argument:

"The drivetrain in particular killed the Caddy’s chance for a win. If the 2.0-liter does in fact make 272 horsepower at 5500 rpm, then it’s only at 5500 rpm. At 5499 and 5501, it feels more like 230. Redline is 7000 rpm, but there’s a notable softening beyond the power peak, and the engine starts sounding stressed well before that."


"In the most important regard, Cadillac succeeded in building an American 3-series. Now it needs to benchmark BMW’s engine and transmission,"

"With less power and nearly as much weight, the BMW trounces the Caddy in a straight line. That’s thanks to the BMW’s seamless power delivery. As opposed to the ATS’s brief lag, then rush of acceleration followed by a dramatic taper, the BMW’s 2.0-liter offers one long uninterrupted flow from the torque peak at 1250 rpm to redline. The fuel cutoff is past seven grand, and the engine sounds and feels like it’s aiming for nine."


That shows clearly my point, not just trans/drivetrain, they are stating the ATS does not have the ENGINE that the N20 328 has.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test




Here is another article to support my point...
" The ATS was ultimately tripped up by two things that left it especially vulnerable against the BMW: its engine and gearbox."

" And though there's power lurking in its little 4-banger, the ATS suffers from turbo lag, a congested-sounding exhaust note and a power curve that feels too compressed. All the urge seems concentrated between 2500 and 6000 rpm, where the more flexible BMW zings and sings anywhere from 1500 to 7000 rpm."


"This engine is high in the running for best 4-cylinder on the market. Not only is the BMW's four stronger, faster to rev and lusher-sounding than the Caddy's, it delivered nearly 20 percent better real-world fuel economy. "

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...ac-ats-premium


This source is a draw I suppose, as this edmunds test refers to the N20/8spd as the best drivetrain in the segment, so the 8spd kind of dilutes both sides of the argument.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:27 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Ha, your first two sources prove your argument. Your third proves mine-having more torque and more power at higher revs is something I find appealing-no?

How about some more sources to validate my argument:

"The drivetrain in particular killed the Caddy's chance for a win. If the 2.0-liter does in fact make 272 horsepower at 5500 rpm, then it's only at 5500 rpm. At 5499 and 5501, it feels more like 230. Redline is 7000 rpm, but there's a notable softening beyond the power peak, and the engine starts sounding stressed well before that."


"In the most important regard, Cadillac succeeded in building an American 3-series. Now it needs to benchmark BMW's engine and transmission,"

"With less power and nearly as much weight, the BMW trounces the Caddy in a straight line. That's thanks to the BMW's seamless power delivery. As opposed to the ATS's brief lag, then rush of acceleration followed by a dramatic taper, the BMW's 2.0-liter offers one long uninterrupted flow from the torque peak at 1250 rpm to redline. The fuel cutoff is past seven grand, and the engine sounds and feels like it's aiming for nine."


That shows clearly my point, not just trans/drivetrain, they are stating the ATS does not have the ENGINE that the N20 328 has.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test




Here is another article to support my point...
" The ATS was ultimately tripped up by two things that left it especially vulnerable against the BMW: its engine and gearbox."

" And though there's power lurking in its little 4-banger, the ATS suffers from turbo lag, a congested-sounding exhaust note and a power curve that feels too compressed. All the urge seems concentrated between 2500 and 6000 rpm, where the more flexible BMW zings and sings anywhere from 1500 to 7000 rpm."


"This engine is high in the running for best 4-cylinder on the market. Not only is the BMW's four stronger, faster to rev and lusher-sounding than the Caddy's, it delivered nearly 20 percent better real-world fuel economy. "

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...ac-ats-premium


This source is a draw I suppose, as this edmunds test refers to the N20/8spd as the best drivetrain in the segment, so the 8spd kind of dilutes both sides of the argument.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html
C&D clearly prefers the N20, no question. That C&D test had a pre-production model ATS and its numbers were really weak compared GM's official info as well as the MT comparison. I posted the dyno comparison to show how similar these two engines are and it proves my point. Once you remove the transmission out of the equation the two are very close.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:35 AM
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Yikes, magazine races!

Just something to think about***********: for 6 years the star of BMW's 3-series was an n54/n55 engine or otherwise a six cylinder engine. It carried that weight over the front axle with a long inline six.

Now BMW puts a 4-cyl in and everyone says the 4-cyl is lighter weight and carries the weight better. But my question is really, inline six vs. inline six do you actually feel the f30 inline six carries it's weight WORSE than the star-reviewed e90 and previous models.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:39 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
C&D clearly prefers the N20, no question. That C&D test had a pre-production model ATS and its numbers were really weak compared GM's official info as well as the MT comparison. I posted the dyno comparison to show how similar these two engines are and it proves my point. Once you remove the transmission out of the equation the two are very close.
I agree, based on dynos the two engines are very close. But one gets by on marketing of 270+hp and the other does not. The N20 also makes its power a bit wider.

I am not saying it is a blow out, but the N20 has an edge over the ATS 2.0T.

Cadillac also bragged about the low weight of the ATS which might only apply to the 2.5, as the tested 2.0T vs N20s if anything have showed the ATS weights a bit more than the 328.

Caddy can get way with the SAE numbers of the 2.0T due to the room of the 321hp claimed rating of the 3.6. Because BMW holds that the N55 makes 300hp(which we know it makes more), the N20 is held down with a 240hp rating. But look what happens when it gets to a dyno next to a "272"hp car.

I wonder what would happen to sales of the 328 and the 335 if your average consumer who knows just enough, enough to know HP is good, saw 270hp/280tq on the 328 and 320hp/320tq on the 335.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:42 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Yikes, magazine races!

Just something to think about***********: for 6 years the star of BMW's 3-series was an n54/n55 engine or otherwise a six cylinder engine. It carried that weight over the front axle with a long inline six.

Now BMW puts a 4-cyl in and everyone says the 4-cyl is lighter weight and carries the weight better. But my question is really, inline six vs. inline six do you actually feel the f30 inline six carries it's weight WORSE than the star-reviewed e90 and previous models.
I think it's a muddled answer due to the handling/chassis tuning. The E90 even with out sports pack felt more buttoned down than the F30. So now, the added weight of the N55 seems to pay a penalty that the E90 never paid with either engine. Magazines were quoted as saying the suspension on the F30 335 does not account for the N55 and that the N20 does not display those issues in the same way.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:06 PM
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thyrilumi View Post
Source regarding this?
Myself.

I didn't realize that opinions needed 'sources'.

BJ
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryboysUDM View Post
335i
+1
cheers
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