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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #51  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:58 AM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usaret View Post
How much colder should it be for BMW to have "upped their game"?

No matter what the capacity, supply air cannot be allowed to get any colder without freezing up the evaporator core. Beyond a 40 something degree temperature the only thing left is to increase the air flow.
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  #52  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:45 AM
usaret usaret is offline
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Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
No matter what the capacity, supply air cannot be allowed to get any colder without freezing up the evaporator core. Beyond a 40 something degree temperature the only thing left is to increase the air flow.
Exactly.

BMW's air temperature is as cold as it can be and to give it poor marks is unwarranted. It just doesn't blast you with freezing air until you manually ramp it down or add warm air. Instead it modulates it to maintain a comfortable temperature.

I've owned more cars than I can remember with AC all the way back to my 1969 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight (two cars before that didn't come with it). None of them cooled "better" than my X3.
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  #53  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:15 AM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
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I have only had my X3 for a little over a week but this past week it sat in the hot sun all day and the temps were in the low 90s. As I said above, left to its own in automatic, its performance, surprisingly, sucks. However, hit the "Max" button and it indeed does an excellent job relatively quickly getting the interior comfortable. Its performance in "Max" is as good as any I've seen.

My Lexus SUV, aside from being a POS in many respects, has a truly outstanding Auto A/C system, With respect to cooling capacity, my X3 is just as good, as long as it is configured properly. It just annoys me that with all the hi tech computer based control systems in the X3, the A/C system needs to be manually tweaked to get maximum cooling when, in comparison, the Lexus knows just what to do and does it well.

The issues with the automatic function not behaving well in Auto are:

-It does not go to max fan speed even when there is a large delta between setpoint temp and actual temp.
-The fan "Intensity" adjustment in Auto is an unnecessary complication and should be internally/automatically determined, again based on the delta between setpoint temp and actual temp with an exterior temperature bias.
-If I manually select hard recirc by pushing the recirc button twice, it resets itself to fresh air after the car it shut down and sits for a little while. I like it to permanently remain in recirc during the hot summer days and do not want to reset it every time I get into the car.

Nevertheless, push the right buttons and the X3s A/C system will freeze your butt off.

Last edited by RhoXS; 07-23-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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  #54  
Old 07-23-2013, 12:17 PM
The X Men The X Men is online now
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BMW have its own temperature scale, its not fahrenheit nor celsius, its somewhere in between I can enter my BMW in a very hot and humid day and set it to max for 15 minutes and then back down to auto mode with temperature set at somewhere in the 64 to 66 degree range and it will remain comfortable for the rest of the way. Whereas in every other car I have owned, I can set it at 70 and be comfotable. BMW should really forget all this efficient dynamic crap when it comes to HVAC comfort.
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  #55  
Old 07-23-2013, 01:20 PM
usaret usaret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
I have only had my X3 for a little over a week but this past week it sat in the hot sun all day and the temps were in the low 90s. As I said above, left to its own in automatic, its performance, surprisingly, sucks. However, hit the "Max" button and it indeed does an excellent job relatively quickly getting the interior comfortable. Its performance in "Max" is as good as any I've seen.

My Lexus SUV, aside from being a POS in many respects, has a truly outstanding Auto A/C system, With respect to cooling capacity, my X3 is just as good, as long as it is configured properly. It just annoys me that with all the hi tech computer based control systems in the X3, the A/C system needs to be manually tweaked to get maximum cooling when, in comparison, the Lexus knows just what to do and does it well.

The issues with the automatic function not behaving well in Auto are:

-It does not go to max fan speed even when there is a large delta between setpoint temp and actual temp.
-The fan "Intensity" adjustment in Auto is an unnecessary complication and should be internally/automatically determined, again based on the delta between setpoint temp and actual temp with an exterior temperature bias.
-If I manually select hard recirc by pushing the recirc button twice, it resets itself to fresh air after the car it shut down and sits for a little while. I like it to permanently remain in recirc during the hot summer days and do not want to reset it every time I get into the car.

Nevertheless, push the right buttons and the X3s A/C system will freeze your butt off.
My E83 is much simpler than the new ones (it's E46 Vintage). I never liked the dual temperatures in my '07 E90. Since there is no physical separation between the two sides of the car I alway thought the whole concept was ridiculous.

Last edited by usaret; 07-23-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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  #56  
Old 07-23-2013, 02:05 PM
mugsy mugsy is offline
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Re: A/C air is not cool when temperatures are high

Very hot last week with temp above 30 celcious plus humidity. Air at the vent cold but not enough volumn to cool the car adequately. Wife was complaining about the weakness of passenger side vent. Luckily, we don't get those temperatures too often here in Canada. Should have used my IR thermostat to get some seat temperature readings, perhaps next time. I will be looking forward to ventilated seats on next purchase.


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  #57  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:01 PM
usaret usaret is offline
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Originally Posted by mugsy View Post
Very hot last week with temp above 30 celcious plus humidity. Air at the vent cold but not enough volumn to cool the car adequately. Wife was complaining about the weakness of passenger side vent. Luckily, we don't get those temperatures too often here in Canada. Should have used my IR thermostat to get some seat temperature readings, perhaps next time. I will be looking forward to ventilated seats on next purchase.


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That's comfortable where I live. Today it was 33C with 100% humidity. Which is normal for this time of year.
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  #58  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:05 PM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
BMW should really forget all this efficient dynamic crap when it comes to HVAC comfort.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

I did not spend as much as I did for a BMW because I am looking to compromise function and effectiveness for efficiency. If one can afford a BMW I think it is reasonable to assume one would not mind being a little less efficient if it means better performance.
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  #59  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:23 PM
JeffinTX JeffinTX is offline
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My experience with the AC in the BMW sedans (E39 540, E39 M5, F10 535) is that the AC is excellent considering the heat we get here in TX during the summer. I just got a X3 and it does take a few minutes longer to get the interior cooled off, compared to the sedans, after the vehicle has been sitting out in the TX summer sun. I think thats understandable considering there is alot more interior volume for the AC to cool in the X3 than in a sedan. My Toy 4runner and Honda Odyssey van fare the same during the summer.
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  #60  
Old 07-23-2013, 08:56 PM
bmw_again bmw_again is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffinTX View Post
My experience with the AC in the BMW sedans (E39 540, E39 M5, F10 535) is that the AC is excellent considering the heat we get here in TX during the summer. I just got a X3 and it does take a few minutes longer to get the interior cooled off, compared to the sedans, after the vehicle has been sitting out in the TX summer sun. I think thats understandable considering there is alot more interior volume for the AC to cool in the X3 than in a sedan. My Toy 4runner and Honda Odyssey van fare the same during the summer.
That, and also the much larger windows on the X3 compared to the sedans
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  #61  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffinTX View Post
I just got a X3 and it does take a few minutes longer to get the interior cooled off, compared to the sedans, after the vehicle has been sitting out in the TX summer sun. I think thats understandable considering there is alot more interior volume for the AC to cool in the X3 than in a sedan. My Toy 4runner and Honda Odyssey van fare the same during the summer.
Comparing the X3's AC to our old Q5 and RX450h, the X3 takes longer to cool down the cabin and the temp. setting has to be at least 5 degree cooler to maintain the same comfort level.
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  #62  
Old 07-24-2013, 09:09 AM
usaret usaret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

I did not spend as much as I did for a BMW because I am looking to compromise function and effectiveness for efficiency. If one can afford a BMW I think it is reasonable to assume one would not mind being a little less efficient if it means better performance.
Other than the obvious effects of Auto Start Stop I wasn't aware that EfficientDynamics had anything to do with the climate control. If I'm wrong please educate me. I'm not being flippant either. I'm being sincere.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...anagement.html
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  #63  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:06 PM
The X Men The X Men is online now
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Originally Posted by usaret View Post
Other than the obvious effects of Auto Start Stop I wasn't aware that EfficientDynamics had anything to do with the climate control. If I'm wrong please educate me. I'm not being flippant either. I'm being sincere.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...anagement.html
When in eco mode, the HVAC will not work as well, but what I was talking about is the overall design. BMW design their AC with efficiency in mind, not performance.
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  #64  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:08 PM
usaret usaret is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
BMW design their AC with efficiency in mind, not performance.
Where did you get that from?

I know they use demand oil pumps, electric water pumps, electric cooling fans, full roller valvetrain and now electric power steering to reduce parasitic drag on the engine... But I've never heard anything about the AC.

To be honest I thought just the opposite was true which is a big part of what Death Valley testing is all about.

My wife and I drove our 2009 E83 X3 from Vegas to Lone Pine with an outside temperature of 113 F. You honestly couldn't tell it was hot out and the temp gauge didn't budge even on the climb out of the western side. Do newer BMW's not perform as well?

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  #65  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:14 PM
The X Men The X Men is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usaret View Post
Where did you get that from?

I know they use demand oil pumps, electric water pumps, electric cooling fans, full roller valvetrain and now electric power steering to reduce parasitic drag on the engine... But I've never heard anything about the AC.

To be honest I thought just the opposite was true which is a big part of what Death Valley testing is all about.

My wife and I drove our 2009 E83 X3 from Vegas to Lone Pine with an outside temperature of 113 F. You honestly couldn't tell it was hot out and the temp gauge didn't budge even on the climb out of the western side. Do newer BMW's not perform as well?

Not sure about the E83, but the F25's AC takes longer to cool the cabin than the competition.
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  #66  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:29 PM
RhoXS RhoXS is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
... F25's AC takes longer to cool the cabin than the competition.
That is not everyone's experience if the A/C system is set on "Max". This is quickly accomplished by just pushing the "Max" button. If you have it in "Max", meaning hard recirc, max fan speed, and a low set point temp, and it is not cooling well, you probably need to have the system serviced by a knowledgeable A/C mechanic.

My X3, configured as just described in "Max", works very well and cools as well or better than any vehicle I have had experience with. However, if I just leave it in "Auto", on a hot day in a hot vehicle, the performance sucks.
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  #67  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
That is not everyone's experience if the A/C system is set on "Max". This is quickly accomplished by just pushing the "Max" button. If you have it in "Max", meaning hard recirc, max fan speed, and a low set point temp, and it is not cooling well, you probably need to have the system serviced by a knowledgeable A/C mechanic.

My X3, configured as just described in "Max", works very well and cools as well or better than any vehicle I have had experience with. However, if I just leave it in "Auto", on a hot day in a hot vehicle, the performance sucks.
The X3's AC is actually not bad, not as bad as our old 328i, but compare to our Audi and Lexus, its not as good. If you do a search on the BMW forums, you will find tons of weak AC threads. MAX mode does cool well, but it is very loud. I dont remember having to use max mode in any of my non-BMW cars or SUV to cool down the car.
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