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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:29 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I haven't driven the new IS but ironically it seems that it is a better driver's car than the 335 according to C&D. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test. Also, it will likely be a lot more reliable in the long run but if you plan to lease this really shouldn't matter. Personally I don't like the exterior styling of the IS and no manual option is no go for me.
From what I remember, in that review the BMW won in pretty much every single performance category, but the Lexus still won overall solely on completely subjective things like "interior design" and "fit and finish". Suffice it to say, it's not really a win for Lexus. BMW is noticeably faster and handles better. It was clearly the better driver's car, but I guess Lexus paid C&D a bit more that month
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  #27  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:35 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by 0428 View Post
+111111 to all the handling comments above.

When I got rid of the Prelude, I shopped the GX before I shopped the X3... needless to say I almost vomited driving that thing they call a car. Felt like I was floating on a 10 ft mount of half melted marshmallows. It was nauseating to say the least.
In a recent C&D article comparing the IS350 to the 335 and the ATS, the IS350 scored a 9 in the handling category where the 335 received a dead last score of 7. The IS350 was also faster at the slalom and received more points in the fun to drive category, where again the 335 came in dead last.
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  #28  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:37 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
From what I remember, in that review the BMW won in pretty much every single performance category, but the Lexus still won overall solely on completely subjective things like "interior design" and "fit and finish". Suffice it to say, it's not really a win for Lexus. BMW is noticeably faster and handles better. It was clearly the better driver's car, but I guess Lexus paid C&D a bit more that month
See my post above. The IS350 was a better handling car. Why isn't it really a win for Lexus? So all of the times the 3 series won comparisons, it really wasn't a win? The IS350 is a better driver's car according to that article.
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  #29  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:38 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
In a recent C&D article comparing the IS350 to the 335 and the ATS, the IS350 scored a 9 in the handling category where the 335 received a dead last score of 7. The IS350 was also faster at the slalom and received more points in the fun to drive category, where again the 335 came in dead last.
And in an InsideLine test the 328 whooped the IS250 and ATS 2.0T in pretty much every category.

Lets move away from the fact that the test you mentioned had ERRORS in scoring and the fact that the IS has no manual trans and is polarizing to look at it(or in my opinion looks like a bad Anime/mecha robot that impregnated a car).
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  #30  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:39 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
See my post above. The IS350 was a better handling car. Why isn't it really a win for Lexus? So all of the times the 3 series won comparisons, it really wasn't a win? The IS350 is a better driver's car according to that article.
The Lexus won by 1 point. Yet the simple things like trunk sizes were incorrect and just one point here or there if corrected would have changed the outcome. The Lexus can be better, I don't care either way-but fudged numbers are not cool.
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  #31  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:42 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
And in an InsideLine test the 328 whooped the IS250 and ATS 2.0T in pretty much every category.

Lets move away from the fact that the test you mentioned had ERRORS in scoring and the fact that the IS has no manual trans and is polarizing to look at it(or in my opinion looks like a bad Anime/mecha robot that impregnated a car).
The ATS destroyed that 328 at the slalom and even the IS250 posted quicker slalom times.
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  #32  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:44 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The Lexus won by 1 point. Yet the simple things like trunk sizes were incorrect and just one point here or there if corrected would have changed the outcome. The Lexus can be better, I don't care either way-but fudged numbers are not cool.
It won when it matters most. Handling.
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  #33  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:16 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
The ATS destroyed that 328 at the slalom and even the IS250 posted quicker slalom times.
Look at all of the figures, the Is and 328 are statistically a dead heat, the ATS did post a solid 70mph which is in sports car territory. Look at all of those numbers though, in about 9 out of 10 figures the 328 was clearly ahead.

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
It won when it matters most. Handling.
I buy a car. I don't buy an engine, I don't buy a suspension. I buy the total package. The RWD 6mt 328 in Sport or MSport guise is the most compelling PACKAGE in the segment.
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  #34  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:29 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Look at all of the figures, the Is and 328 are statistically a dead heat, the ATS did post a solid 70mph which is in sports car territory. Look at all of those numbers though, in about 9 out of 10 figures the 328 was clearly ahead.

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html



I buy a car. I don't buy an engine, I don't buy a suspension. I buy the total package. The RWD 6mt 328 in Sport or MSport guise is the most compelling PACKAGE in the segment.
I agree and that is why the IS350 won the C&D comparison. It is the best total package. On the other hand some value handling more than rear seat legroom.
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  #35  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:31 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Look at all of the figures, the Is and 328 are statistically a dead heat, the ATS did post a solid 70mph which is in sports car territory. Look at all of those numbers though, in about 9 out of 10 figures the 328 was clearly ahead.

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html



I buy a car. I don't buy an engine, I don't buy a suspension. I buy the total package. The RWD 6mt 328 in Sport or MSport guise is the most compelling PACKAGE in the segment.
Depends how you look at it. Overall, maybe but to an enthusiast I would argue that the ATS would offer the most compelling package in this segment.
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  #36  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:34 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
It won when it matters most. Handling.
Incorrect. What is the most commonly accepted measure of handling? That's right, not a purely subjective thing like a guy saying "I feel that this car handles better", but an actual measurement. You guessed correctly, it's roadholding on a skidpad. And BMW got a 0.89g compared to Lexus's 0.85g (the Caddy beat both at 0.91g). Not a big difference, but the Lexus most definitely didn't win in the handling department. Factual data beats subjective opinions.
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  #37  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:37 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I agree and that is why the IS350 won the C&D comparison. It is the best total package. On the other hand some value handling more than rear seat legroom.
It's not the best package to me and others:

-No manual
-Looks, my wife hates it, I am not a fan either
-Interior looks like a recycling of 90's Japanese designs from 5 different cars
-Only something that affects some, but there is less tuning opportunities-less aftermarket options to improve the car


Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Depends how you look at it. Overall, maybe but to an enthusiast I would argue that the ATS would offer the most compelling package in this segment.
I agree, the ATS was the only other car I was considering.

However, I find the ATS appealing when in the low to mid 30's, you still get a lot for the money(build a 6mt 2.0T with just a couple of essentials). But when the MSRP starts mirroring the MSport at $43-46k I find the ATS 2.0T less appealing. The drivetrain is a major component and it is not as appealing as the N20/6mt, despite the better handling which is easier to improve on in the F30 via the aftermarket than the ATS' divretrain short comings.
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  #38  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:49 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
Incorrect. What is the most commonly accepted measure of handling? That's right, not a purely subjective thing like a guy saying "I feel that this car handles better", but an actual measurement. You guessed correctly, it's roadholding on a skidpad. And BMW got a 0.89g compared to Lexus's 0.85g (the Caddy beat both at 0.91g). Not a big difference, but the Lexus most definitely didn't win in the handling department. Factual data beats subjective opinions.
Incorrect. The IS350 posted higher slalom speed. The IS350 did win in the handling department, so did the ATS and only in this but in previous comparisons. Skipad are numbers extremely tire dependant. Case in point, Regal GS. It is a heavy FWD sedan but comes with one of the best tires on the market. It also got .90g (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test) so by your logic it handles better than the 335.
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  #39  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:55 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
It's not the best package to me and others:

-No manual
-Looks, my wife hates it, I am not a fan either
-Interior looks like a recycling of 90's Japanese designs from 5 different cars
-Only something that affects some, but there is less tuning opportunities-less aftermarket options to improve the car




I agree, the ATS was the only other car I was considering.

However, I find the ATS appealing when in the low to mid 30's, you still get a lot for the money(build a 6mt 2.0T with just a couple of essentials). But when the MSRP starts mirroring the MSport at $43-46k I find the ATS 2.0T less appealing. The drivetrain is a major component and it is not as appealing as the N20/6mt, despite the better handling which is easier to improve on in the F30 via the aftermarket than the ATS' divretrain short comings.
It is not the best package to ME as well but I can say the same about the F30 335. I never driven one and Ill bet neither did anyone posting in this thread but yet they claim the F30 handles better. Just like you, I am not a fan of the styling and no manual option is a turn off. The ATS appeals to me because you can get the 6 manual Performance well under 40K. I was referring to the C&D article, where in fact the IS350 was a better handling car and the best car overall.
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  #40  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:59 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
Incorrect. What is the most commonly accepted measure of handling? That's right, not a purely subjective thing like a guy saying "I feel that this car handles better", but an actual measurement. You guessed correctly, it's roadholding on a skidpad. And BMW got a 0.89g compared to Lexus's 0.85g (the Caddy beat both at 0.91g). Not a big difference, but the Lexus most definitely didn't win in the handling department. Factual data beats subjective opinions.
Skidpad speed is by no means the end all measurement of handling. It is one indication of good handling but there is a lot more to handling than grip in a skid pad.

CA
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  #41  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:10 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
It is not the best package to ME as well but I can say the same about the F30 335. I never driven one and Ill bet neither did anyone posting in this thread but yet they claim the F30 handles better. Just like you, I am not a fan of the styling and no manual option is a turn off. The ATS appeals to me because you can get the 6 manual Performance well under 40K. I was referring to the C&D article, where in fact the IS350 was a better handling car and the best car overall.
The 328 matches the straight line speed of the is350 that won that test. But people obsess over the intake and exhaust sound and can't get past a 4 cylinder.

For those more open minded you could have the speed of the 350 with a manual and slightly better handling than the 335 by choosing a 328. Or wait for the ATS-V to rectify my 2.0t concerns.
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  #42  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:26 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
The reliability is nowhere near similar, lol. The 335 is below average while the IS is not. This is also true when you compare the two brands as well. I am not sure why you would think that BMW owners drive their cars "harder".
Because, I believe that Lexus cars tend to attract a population that is more "luxury" minded, than "performance" minded. Its not that they do not make a car that has good performance. I just believe that you probably do not get a large population of lexus drivers talking about "tracking" their cars... or driving their cars "just to drive".

Of course this is just my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. I certainly do not have any evidence of this fact, other than my own observations.

I CAN tell you that, I have owned Japanese cars my entire life (but have not owned a lexus). This BMW is the first time I have owned a car that is practically BEGGING me to drive it. I have owned the car for almost 3 months now, and every time I walk to my garage to get in it, or get in it after a day at work, I still LOVE to drive it.

No car has ever made me feel like that before (and yes this is my first BMW). I test drove lexus, and audi before this purchase.

I "liked" the lexus, but could not get past how it looked. I narrowed it down to the audi and bmw, and decided I would rather have the 3 series bmw than the S4.

I truly believe that Japanese cars are made well. I just think that your typical BMW owner is going to be harder on the car driving wise.
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  #43  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:43 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Skidpad speed is by no means the end all measurement of handling. It is one indication of good handling but there is a lot more to handling than grip in a skid pad.

CA
Of course it's not the only measure of handling, but if you had 100 people pick only ONE measure of handling to use, likely 99 would pick the skidpad. The Lexus did win on the slalom, so it gets points there. But to say that it clearly has better handling is flat out wrong.

The ATS does have better handling than the F30. That much has been confirmed by many difference sources, and the data backs it up. Lexus has definitely made improvements and the IS's handling is much better than it used to be, but I just don't see the data proving without any doubt that it's better than the F30, like Legends is saying.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:01 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
Of course it's not the only measure of handling, but if you had 100 people pick only ONE measure of handling to use, likely 99 would pick the skidpad. The Lexus did win on the slalom, so it gets points there. But to say that it clearly has better handling is flat out wrong.

The ATS does have better handling than the F30. That much has been confirmed by many difference sources, and the data backs it up. Lexus has definitely made improvements and the IS's handling is much better than it used to be, but I just don't see the data proving without any doubt that it's better than the F30, like Legends is saying.
Skid pad grip is to handling what headroom is to roominess. It's a factor, but alone it is inconclusive.

Skid pad grip is nothing more than how fast a car can drive in a circle and is very dependent on tires. It does not measure how quickly the car reacts to steering input and it does not measure how a car handles in transition, how the suspension reacts to uneven pavement or how the car acts at the limits of adhesion. IMO slalom is a much more accurate indication of how a car handles in real word situation and even that does not tell the whole story.

Subjective feel is very important. Some cars can produce impressive numbers but getting them to do so is like running barefoot on shards of glass.


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  #45  
Old 06-25-2013, 08:24 PM
raqautle raqautle is offline
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2014 Lexus IS350 F-Sport vs. 2013 BMW 335 M Sport

If ur gonna lease, go with BMW, it's a much better performance car and the warranty will end a year after the lease ends

I don't like to be biased but I don't know much about Lexus, if I was u, I'd try to test drive both
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  #46  
Old 06-25-2013, 09:56 PM
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Wow I didn't think this thread would be that hot. That was a good discussion
Just came back from the dealership and I'm posting my build (not a build, it's off the lot) on another thread. Please comment!
Looks like it's going to be the F30!
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  #47  
Old 06-26-2013, 04:07 AM
KLC KLC is offline
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The 335 is significantly faster.
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  #48  
Old 06-26-2013, 08:02 AM
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Wow I didn't think this thread would be that hot. That was a good discussion
Just came back from the dealership and I'm posting my build (not a build, it's off the lot) on another thread. Please comment!
Looks like it's going to be the F30!
Great choice! I am doing back flips over here for you! The cars as vastly different so it all depends on what you really want out of the car. The feedback on the BMW is far and away miles above the Lexus. Just two different animals really. You will be so happy when it arrives at the dealership! Trust me. The feeling is priceless. YES, WE HAVE ANOTHER BIMMER for our army!!
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  #49  
Old 06-26-2013, 08:25 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The Lexus won by 1 point. Yet the simple things like trunk sizes were incorrect and just one point here or there if corrected would have changed the outcome. The Lexus can be better, I don't care either way-but fudged numbers are not cool.
You are paying way too much attention to the scores and not enough to the article itself. It's clear that Car and Driver felt the IS350 to be the better handling car and they were critical of the floaty nature of the 335i Sport Line they tested.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:28 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
Of course it's not the only measure of handling, but if you had 100 people pick only ONE measure of handling to use, likely 99 would pick the skidpad. The Lexus did win on the slalom, so it gets points there. But to say that it clearly has better handling is flat out wrong.

The ATS does have better handling than the F30. That much has been confirmed by many difference sources, and the data backs it up. Lexus has definitely made improvements and the IS's handling is much better than it used to be, but I just don't see the data proving without any doubt that it's better than the F30, like Legends is saying.
Then those 99 people are idiots because skidpad results are often more about tires than handling. Slalom is a better indication but how a car handles in transitions and communicates to the driver are what really matters.
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