M3 owner autocrosses RX-8, is smitten.

Originally posted on another board:

Autocrossed clyde's car today. What an eye-opening experience.

Off the line, as long as you rev it to 3500 RPM or so, the RX-8 pulls relatively well. My first run, I "short-shifted" (at about 7K RPM!) because I just wasn't ready for the long climb to 9K. The course had essentially a slight kink and then a long straight blast up to a tight 180 (into a figure eight). The car pulled well, and I went to brake at about the time I would in my car. I also began my turn in about the same place...

Oops. The car bites *right now,* and I found myself having to actually steer back the other way to get through the gate. Yikes. The RX-8 actually does what you tell it to.

That was really the story of my whole first run--I couldn't concentrate on the course because I couldn't believe how well the car was handling, and how much less slop there was in the handling than I was used to. The great thing is that even driving like a moron, the RX-8 is direct enough that you can operate in react mode and still post a decent time. Unbelievable.

On my later runs, I started to get a better feel for the car, and got closer to its limits. It's amazing what you can do with the gas pedal. In the M3, steering with the throttle means booting it out of a slow corner and "walking the dog." In the RX-8, you can actually lift off the throttle mid-turn and steer the car that way--sweet. And it's actually fairly forgiving, allowing you to dance up close to the limit of adhesion and still reign it in.* I did one long sweeper in a nearly constant 4 wheel drift, and as I told clyde, it may be the most fun 3 seconds I've ever had autocrossing.

This car kicks ****ing ass. Autocrossing clyde's RX-8 the day after autocrossing my M3 is like the difference between typing with and without welding gloves. The M3 feels big, sullen, heavy, slow to react, undertired, prone to understeer, floaty, and numb compared to the RX-8. Seriously. And the difference is profound enough that clyde's car on street tires is *still* more satisfying to drive than Nick's car with a swaybar, Hoosiers, and DA Konis.

Summary? I can't think of a reason to buy an M3 over this car. And that's without even discussing price. If you want power, buy a Mustang or a GTO. But if you even pretend that handling is your game, the RX-8 is it.**


EDIT: And, unlike the M3, the engine doesn't explode.

______

*clyde later pointed out that the DSC may not have been fully off, perhaps lessening my heroics at keep the car in a balanced drift. If it intervened, I didn't feel it, which is not something I'd ever say in the M3.


**clyde's car, of course, has non-stock dampers. As I've said before, these setting should be stock. I would be interested to see how well a stock RX-8 would do.

how much do you think your opinion would change if your venue of choice was road courses rather than auto-X?

How much would your opinion change if you actually liked the M3 to begin with?

Originally Posted by bren

How much would your opinion change if you actually liked the M3 to begin with?

well, I have no doubt that whatever you think about the M3 going in, if you buy it with an eye toward outstanding auto-X performance in stock condition, that would be pretty dumb.

I do like the M3. It's a great car. It offers a formidable blend of performance and luxury. It's a very comfortable freeway car, and it's very fast in a straight line.

But the RX-8 is a better handling car, and is more fun to drive. That's all I'm saying. And as the competition has improved, I find it harder and harder to justify paying what BMW asks for the M3. It's just not, IMHO, worth it.

On a road course, I think the RX-8 would still be more fun. The M3 would probably be faster, depending on the number and length of straightaways, but there's not a doubt in my mind that the RX-8 would be a more rewarding drive.

I haven't autocrossed an 8 yet, but the first time I turned the steering wheel in one I was like... Yes. This is what handling is all about. They nailed it.

Good auto-x review JST.

Originally Posted by rumratt

Dumber than buying a race car and never racing it?

just as dumb

Have you guys seen the Top Gear RX-8 test?

It almost makes me want to go buy one (except the back seat is too small...so that ain't going to happen)...

http://www.nashwan.org/topgear.wmv

My real idiocy in driving yesterday was that my tire pressure was a bit low in front and I found my car pushing a tad more than I'm used to...

I will need more than a few days of runs to get into the groove of driving this car properly, but hopefully by next year I can give some of the regulars a run for their money

Originally Posted by JST

I find it harder and harder to justify paying what BMW asks for the M3. It's just not, IMHO, worth it.

You have to put some value on interior style, exterior style and exclusivity (debatable) to pay the BMW premium.

Is the RX8's 0-60 time M3 competitive?

Originally Posted by JP in TO

You have to put some value on interior style, exterior style and exclusivity (debatable) to pay the BMW premium.

Is the RX8's 0-60 time M3 competitive?

Not even close.

Originally Posted by JST

Not even close.

Hehe, so true... but that's not what the car was designed for.

Glad to see you like it JST... so when are you selling your M3?

Originally Posted by JPinTO

You have to put some value on interior style, exterior style and exclusivity (debatable) to pay the BMW premium.

Is the RX8's 0-60 time M3 competitive?

Originally Posted by JST

If you want power, buy a Mustang or a GTO.

Regarding exclusivity... How many E46 M3s do you see every day? How many RX-8s? Both are just as easy to buy...walk into your dealer and give them some money (roughly twice as much for the M3 as the RX-8, though).

The style stuff? If you're more about show than go, have at it...although, oddly enough, there are people that are truly enamored of the RX-8's "style" inside and out. (I am not one of them.)

Originally Posted by Hercules

Glad to see you like it JST... so when are you selling your M3?

Let's just say that when the lease is up, I won't be getting another one.

What I will get is up in the air, at this point, but the RX-8 is certainly a strong contender.

As long as Koni will sell me a set of shocks.

Originally Posted by JST

Let's just say that when the lease is up, I won't be getting another one.

What I will get is up in the air, at this point, but the RX-8 is certainly a strong contender.

As long as Koni will sell me a set of shocks.

The RX-7 might be out by then too

When is the release for the RX-7?


In all honesty, though, if I decide I can live with only two seats, a Z51 C6 becomes mighty tempting.

Originally Posted by JST

When is the release for the RX-7?


In all honesty, though, if I decide I can live with only two seats, a Z51 C6 becomes mighty tempting.

There's no official date though I expect you'll see it in another 2 years. Right now the redesign of the Miata is on the top of the 'to-do' list for Mazda and since that car is their heritage and their bread and butter in so many ways, it's important to get it right.

Given the shared chassis now, the RX-7 is a greater reality since the RX-8 is first, hitting its sales marks, the Miata will be getting the RX-8's chassis, and the RX-7 would ideally get the RX-8's chassis as well. I think you know how good it is from driving the RX-8, so it will be nice when the RX-7 comes along in a sub 3000lbs package, higher power car with the same chassis. That's the one I'm waiting for, anyway. When the lease is up on my RX-8 and if the RX-7 is at that time available... I'll likely just buy that car and keep it instead of leasing again.

It's not 100% that the RX-7 will come out, but I give it a good chance given that Mazda has really turned the corner in regards to their current lineup of cars.

any spyshots or conceptual drawings of the rx-7?

Originally Posted by atyclb

any spyshots or conceptual drawings of the rx-7?

Nothing yet... lots of 'concept' art but it's not from Mazda. It's from people who think that 'this is what the RX-7 should look like' crowd.

I'm hoping that Mazda doesn't pre-pimp the car for you as other companies are aleady doing and just leaving it understated and sporty just like the 3rd generation RX-7 was.

But that's neither here nor there.. I'm still waiting for some announcement or news on it, haven't heard anything yet. This is just my own estimation.

Originally Posted by Hercules

There's no official date though I expect you'll see it in another 2 years. Right now the redesign of the Miata is on the top of the 'to-do' list for Mazda and since that car is their heritage and their bread and butter in so many ways, it's important to get it right.

The RX-7 is a lot more their "heritage" than the Miata. The Miata has been Mazda's slowest selling vehicle for a few years now (if not longer). As much as the Miata was crucial to them in the 90s, the Miata only sold about 14k units in the US in 2002 (out of 258k US Mazda sales), not quite 11k in 2003 (also out of 258k) and is on a pace to sell just 10k units this year (out of 281k), it certainly isn't their "bread and butter."

It's not 100% that the RX-7 will come out, but I give it a good chance given that Mazda has really turned the corner in regards to their current lineup of cars.

The possibility of a new RX-7 (or perhaps an RX-9...you heard it here first ) is certainly something to watch. And the next gen Miata riding on this platform should be amazing for what it will be. The RX-8, though, will continue to fill a void that no one knew existed.

It would be better with more power, stiffer springs, better shocks, more available camber up front...and automatic up windows.

Originally Posted by Hercules

There's no official date though I expect you'll see it in another 2 years. Right now the redesign of the Miata is on the top of the 'to-do' list for Mazda and since that car is their heritage and their bread and butter in so many ways, it's important to get it right.

Given the shared chassis now, the RX-7 is a greater reality since the RX-8 is first, hitting its sales marks, the Miata will be getting the RX-8's chassis, and the RX-7 would ideally get the RX-8's chassis as well. I think you know how good it is from driving the RX-8, so it will be nice when the RX-7 comes along in a sub 3000lbs package, higher power car with the same chassis. That's the one I'm waiting for, anyway. When the lease is up on my RX-8 and if the RX-7 is at that time available... I'll likely just buy that car and keep it instead of leasing again.

It's not 100% that the RX-7 will come out, but I give it a good chance given that Mazda has really turned the corner in regards to their current lineup of cars.

In college, the only car I wanted to buy when I graduated was a 3rd gen RX-7. I was very bummed when they stopped making them, and even more bummed when they turned out to be rolling hand grenades.

I have to admit that a well driven RX8 at least makes it look smooth and effortless on an autox course. Maybe it's the lack of engine noise.

Alex

Originally Posted by ·clyde·

The RX-7 is a lot more their "heritage" than the Miata. The Miata has been Mazda's slowest selling vehicle for a few years now (if not longer). As much as the Miata was crucial to them in the 90s, the Miata only sold about 14k units in the US in 2002 (out of 258k US Mazda sales), not quite 11k in 2003 (also out of 258k) and is on a pace to sell just 10k units this year (out of 281k), it certainly isn't their "bread and butter."



The possibility of a new RX-7 (or perhaps an RX-9...you heard it here first ) is certainly something to watch. And the next gen Miata riding on this platform should be amazing for what it will be. The RX-8, though, will continue to fill a void that no one knew existed.

It would be better with more power, stiffer springs, better shocks, more available camber up front...and automatic up windows.

We can agree to disagree on the point the Miata is extremely important It's what kept Mazda in the game for all these years despite horrible cars like the 626 and the ill-concieved Millenia.

As per the stiffer springs, et al... if you buy the MazdaSpeed edition (in Japan) you get all those goodies and more, and a great rice-boy appearance to boot (blech). The new Miata will be a hoot I think, and to look forward to the next RX-7 or RX-9 well... that remains to be seen though I remain hopeful. Next year you'll see a date for the Mazda6 MPS (probably) and the new Miata, and the year after that, the RX-7.

These are just my guesses

Originally Posted by Hercules

We can agree to disagree on the point the Miata is extremely important It's what kept Mazda in the game for all these years despite horrible cars like the 626 and the ill-concieved Millenia.

1990 51636
1991 38287
1992 26636
1993 21482
1994 20110
1995 19590
1996 18971
1997 18652
1998 No US version
1999 33370
2000 15972
2001 18147
2002 13780
2003 12672

Halo cars are important, and they serve a purpose, but they don't "keep you in the game." And calling the Miata a halo car may be overly generous.

Originally Posted by JST

Autocrossed clyde's car today. What an eye-opening experience.