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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 07-03-2013, 01:36 PM
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E-34 Starts Only with GM Removed:

Decided to split this off my earlier thread. 12/1994 E34 with 'Red Label' DME starts and runs perfectly with GM removed. If GM is installed, car will not crank from the key but can be started by jumping the starter.

The Power Sunroof, Power Windows and Power Locks do not work and wipers work only on high speed. I have checked for broken wires at the trunk hinge and all the fuses and everything is good in that respect, including the fuses under the rear seat and at the RF inner fender.

When I opened the GM, there are no signs of damage and no odor of burned electrical components.

Any suggestions???? The number on the GM I removed from the car is 61 35 8 368 571. Would this be correct for a E34 of this vintage???

I made sure to plug in the GM only after disconnecting the vehicle's battery. This makes no difference.

New GM>>>>?????
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2013, 01:37 PM
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Is the 61 35 8 368 571 unit actually a GM, or ZKE or????
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2013, 02:13 PM
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Hi Doc,

Firstly, the GM, LKM and the like have no coding functions on the car and are neither chassis specific nor do they require synchronisation with the instrument cluster's coding plug.

The only thing on the car that can be coded would be the EWS code. With the appropriate software tools and cables, the DME's ews code can be written to the EWS module (for ews2 cars) to permit a full startup. I just did this recently using a software developed by a bfc member - its truly sweet.

The later E34s with the boosted AGS + EGS auto transmissions could also have these adaptations manually coded by SSS Progman, which is a software. This is not a security function, more an adaptive and flash software upgrade type thing to optimise gearshifts etc.

Finally, the part number that you've mentioned can be found here :

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...61&fg=25&hl=16

It seems to be something called a "body module". I confess I'm not familiar with it. Perhaps others can enlighten further.

If you goto http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do

...you will find a search engine called "PART NR APPLICATION SEARCH, displayed in red. Input any BMW part number into this field and hit enter. All the cars across time which used that particular part, will show up on the next page (if the part number itself was valid). You can dial down and find the car that most closely resembles yours and click for the detailed sub diagrams. The part you searched for will be highlighted in red in the sub diagram. It is a very useful tool. And as you probably know, you can enter the part number directly into google, into ebay's listings search engine, or into the part number search engines in retailers such as rockauto.com for both pictures, prices, and application information of the part concerned.

I know this doesn't answer your question directly but I hope it helps somehow. And...I vaguely recall reading something similar to your described situation on bimmerforums. Perhaps you could search the E34 forums there ?
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2013, 03:00 PM
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Interesting, and thank you for posting.

This is an EWS I car. We installed a Red Label DME and this corrected the no-start condition. Unfortunately we now have a no-crank condition. Once I pull the module out, the car starts and runs perfectly.

Interestingly, I have no power locks, power windows, sunroof or lower speed wipers either way....with the module installed or removed.
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  #5  
Old 07-06-2013, 10:14 AM
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Any ideas BMW Gods????
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2013, 05:49 AM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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Hi Doktor Bert,

Is this of any help (read all the way to the end). Its an obscure E34 no-start issue. A friend of mine found it.


http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...wont-turn-over


I've never heard of the general module killing the car. Have you checked out the wiring diagrams, from the electrical troubleshooting manual for your E34's year ?

I'm having possible electrical issues as well...
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2013, 06:57 AM
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Thank you!!!!!

I haven't of it either, which is really complicating things....
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  #8  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:41 AM
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This is the frustrating part, all my 'hidden' fuses are good....
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:44 AM
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And nobody has heard of a 'no-crank' E34 that will magically start once the GM is removed....:-(
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:03 PM
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Going to devote some time to the E34 tonight.

I am beginning to suspect the factory BMW alarm system.....at least as far as the no locks/no start thing is concerned, but only time will tell....
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  #11  
Old 07-09-2013, 01:22 AM
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Id say you are right, people havent answered because they havent heard of the issue. I certainly havent. I cant see if you have mentioned that you have tried a different GM, that would be the first place i would start if i had this issue. My understanding of the GM in an E32 would prevent the car starting without it, one would assume the E34 is a very similar setup given the two chassis are so similar in other ways, but your findings make me wonder.

Use real OEM and plug in your chassis number, and from there work out what General module you should have, then check is this the one you have or not? Either way, you may need to fund a new one.

Beyond this working, i dont have the answer sorry
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  #12  
Old 07-09-2013, 08:22 AM
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That's the direction I am heading...

Thus far, the door lock sends a signal to the GM which in turn sends the 'OK' signal to the starter immobilization relay (SIR). I can remove and jump the SIR and the engine will crank and start. I can remove the GM (with the SIR in place) and the car will crank and start, so the issue of the door locks not working seems to have a direct bearing on the problem.

Here is the history of the car (as I have been told and taken on faith) for those who have only recently tuned in.

One owner 1995 BMW 525i, flawless inside and out, less than 100,000 miles. Car was taken to a Palm Springs BMW specialty shop for regular service. While on premises, the stock BMW radio was stolen. After that, the car would not crank or start. The owner's gave the car to the shop when they couldn't get it figured out. The top BMW guys in the area all worked on the car without success and the car changed hands several times (being traded or sold) to other BMW 'specialists' over a three year period and no one could figure out why it would neither crank or start.

A colleague ended up with the car and asked me to look at it. I discovered that not only was it not cranking from the key, it had no fuel injector output signal from the DME, but had all the required inputs.

We installed a 'Red Label '413' DME and the car immediately started and ran by jumping the SIR. I ended up getting the car for practically nothing as I have become intrigued by the issues it has.

Further inspection reveals many parts, such as relays have been swapped around and we really don't know the true history of the car, since all of the information given is third and fourth hand.

Replacing the missing brake lamp switch turned off the 'Trans Program' indicator and allowed the shift interlock to release. The car runs and drives nicely, but I must figure out how to bring the low/medium speed wipers, power locks, power sunroof and power windows back on line to make it a running/driving car.

Oddly enough, I have a new white plastic 'stem' in the shifter but still have no spring function on the shift release lever. Anybody have a breakdown of this section??? What 'springs' the shift paddle back into position????

Thanks for your responses....
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  #13  
Old 07-09-2013, 09:57 AM
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My shift button does not "spring" either, it gets stuck all the time, i beat on the shift lever to get it back down.
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  #14  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95-540sport View Post
My shift button does not "spring" either, it gets stuck all the time, i beat on the shift lever to get it back down.
That cannot be correct!
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  #15  
Old 07-10-2013, 07:13 AM
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Found a couple of small wires in the round underhood connector cut, apparently from some sort of testing....It appears to be wire #7 in the connector, which was cut for the 'Red Label 413' DME, but you should not have to cut wire #7 on a EWS I car, since they do not have a transmitter in the key.

Man, the local BMW experts (as I have been told) really screwed this up. Before I can fix the 'probelms' I have to fix their attempts at repairing the car!!!!
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  #16  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:28 AM
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Is a '413' DME compatible with the 12/1994 production M50TUB25's VANOS system????
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  #17  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
Is a '413' DME compatible with the 12/1994 production M50TUB25's VANOS system????
If memory serves me correctly (which is questionable at best), I think it will work. Your car has EWSI of which I am not too familiar. Which DME do you currently have? does yours have the silver label?

If your car has EWSII (which I don't think it does, but not sure - it would have the silver label if so), you can use the 413 red label DME with some wiring modifications.
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Quote:
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #18  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR_LVR View Post
If memory serves me correctly (which is questionable at best), I think it will work. Your car has EWSI of which I am not too familiar. Which DME do you currently have? does yours have the silver label?

If your car has EWSII (which I don't think it does, but not sure - it would have the silver label if so), you can use the 413 red label DME with some wiring modifications.
12/1994 production 525i had a 'silver label' (bad) DME and I replaced it with a 'red label 413' DME.

IIRC VANOS came out in 1992??????????????
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  #19  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
12/1994 production 525i had a 'silver label' (bad) DME and I replaced it with a 'red label 413' DME.

IIRC VANOS came out in 1992??????????????
Vanos came out in 93. That's when the 413 red label DME began to be used. According to this, EWSII didn't start until production date 1/95.

Again, if it was EWS II, I could walk you through the bypass procedure. Not sure on the EWSI, but for some reason, I seem to recall reading that it is much simpler than with the EWS II.

Review the document that I linked and see if that will help you.

EDIT: I haven't read this, but it seems that it may be helpful as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold


Last edited by BMR_LVR; 07-10-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:52 AM
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Thanks...I am reading everything on the subject most graciously!!!!!
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  #21  
Old 07-10-2013, 01:11 PM
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Looks like with EWS-I all you do to disable it is plug-n-play with the '413' DME...
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  #22  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:28 PM
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Going to try a new GM and see what comes of that. The door locks send the GM a signal and then the GM allows the SIR to activate the starter. If I pull the GM, the car starts, so this sounds reasonable...
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  #23  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:34 PM
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A few photos of the E34 I am working on....
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2013, 10:28 AM
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A/C system and all vents working at 100%. The spark plugs, based on their erosion and incredible .100" gap, appear to be original Bosch, and likely have never been replaced in the car's 90,000 miles of life...
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:23 PM
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Hey guys, what kind of wheels are these????
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