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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 07-17-2013, 11:04 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spagolli94 View Post
I recently had a rental 328xi rental when I went to Vail. I have a, E90 335i 6spd, sport and lots of other goodies too, so it's not apples to apples. That said...

F30 Pros
1. I was shocked at how quick the F30 was. All that power and smooth acceleration from a 4 cal? Wow?
2. I didn't notice the diesel clatter people complain about
3. The ride quality was great. Firm, but smooth. Not Camry-ish like the article said.
4. The steering, while way too light in the parking lot, firmed up nicely at speed, especially when in sport mode.

F30 Cons
1. I immediately noticed the cheapness of the interior. Not sure if it was more plastic, the grade of plastic, the fact I had a stripped-down rental, or all of the above.
2. The car felt big and I much prefer smaller cars (that's just a personal preference though, not really a knock on the F30).
3. The steering wheel was very thin and ugly shape. Would be rectified with better "line" I imagine.
4. The ASS feature and other non-sport driving modes blow. Why bother? I guess they had to do that crap for CAFE regulations or something?

It very well be possible that the cons I noticed would be a non-issue on a higher line. That said, I think two things will prevent me from getting the F30. One is the fact they have lines at all. I would like a sport package with a saddle brown interior. I would like the ability to chose more options and not be pigeon-holed into a specific line. And two, the size. Who knows, maybe in a few years, I'll want a bigger car, but not now.

I like a lot of things about the F30. IF it was the same size as the E90 with more configurable options, I'd likely be all over it.
For 2014 the Sport steering wheel will be std on all models including non-line I believe.

If you read many of the reviews on this site, a lot of owners drive in modes other than sport. Personally, when I lad a base loaner, I drove it in Sport nearly the entire day but if I were to drive a lot on the freeway Eco-Pro would be fine.
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  #77  
Old 07-17-2013, 11:13 AM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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It gives me a big clue....

I hope the F3x is nothing like the current F30. The current F30 in its the soft core state is a huge disappointment.

It is so sad when a 3 series F30 wins comparisons based on curb appeal and not driving dynamics. Who would have thought in past that BMW will be selling a $62K 335i based on sole curb appeal.

On the side note I do find E46 M3 even more raw then E9x M3. The good thing is that E9x M3 does not suffer from that poor EPS they are about to throw in F3x M3.


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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
If I tell you that the M3 is still an E9X and not a F3X, does this give you a clue?

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-17-2013 at 11:30 AM.
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  #78  
Old 07-17-2013, 03:33 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Decent review of the 320i, .91 g's, 106ft from 60, they describe the sports suspension as just right.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...0i_first_look/
Not bad all. Nice alternative to the TSX, GLI, ATS 2.5, IS250 etc. Pretty competitive pricing and more than enough power to enjoy it as DD.
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  #79  
Old 07-17-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggerTwin View Post
To those lamenting that BMW has lost its focus and is making softer cars: has the M3 gotten softer or is it still the ultimate driving machine?
"The Ultimate Driving Machine" was just marketing shtick to make 50-year-olds stuck in family sedans believe they were driving a Porsche.

The 3 Series is a $50,000 German luxury car. It should be embraced for what it is, not what it isn't.

BJ
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  #80  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
"The Ultimate Driving Machine" was just marketing shtick to make 50-year-olds stuck in family sedans believe they were driving a Porsche.

The 3 Series is a $50,000 German luxury car. It should be embraced for what it is, not what it isn't.

BJ
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  #81  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:54 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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I think there was bit more then just a slogan to BMW 3 series.

The BMW 3 series is traditionally one of the best sports sedan/GT coupe in its class. It was always sports first luxury second philosophy. Because BMW focused on making it great in driving dynamics first and then let the pieces fall where they belonged.

Now it is tech gizmos, gas mileage, curb appeal/luxury and straight line performance . Hmmmm that reminds me a bit of old MB philosophy.

Those that found Porsche unpractical were happy in BMW 3 series. Now it is hard to tell BMW 3 series apart from others in its class. I think BMW went to far off with its new slogan efficient dynamics and turned it into the softest 3 series to date.
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  #82  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:00 PM
Jugghaid Jugghaid is offline
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Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post

The BMW 3 series is traditionally one of the best sports sedan/GT coupe in its class.
Still is according to most every comparison test out there.
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  #83  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:26 PM
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I had both an f30 & e90 while the e90 had better steering than the f30. I would say that the f30 had better handling than he e90 on everyday roads. When you hit a unavoidable pothole in the e90 you get a huge amount of bump steer while in the f30 there is less. What get me angry about the f30 is that the non m/sport line models feel kind of floaty compare to its e90 counterparts


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  #84  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jugghaid View Post
Still is according to most every comparison test out there.
It seems like it's the best only because of it's curb appeal.
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  #85  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:30 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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+1

I think it has become more about luxury, gas mileage, and tech gizmos. Now engine power wise BMW has not lost it and still dominates. The rest of driving dynamics have taken a back seat to efficient dynamics philosophy.

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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
It seems like it's the best only because of it's curb appeal.

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-18-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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  #86  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
"The Ultimate Driving Machine" was just marketing shtick to make 50-year-olds stuck in family sedans believe they were driving a Porsche.

The 3 Series is a $50,000 German luxury car. It should be embraced for what it is, not what it isn't.

BJ
I wouldn't call the 3 a Luxury Car as much as I would Premium Car, especially with that interior. It inherently has always been considered a precision sports tool more than a Luxury tool, and I'd say with the F30 that still stands (more geared towards Sport than Luxury). Also, BMW bringing the 320i here for $32K makes it very clear that the 3 is still their livably compact, nimble yet comfortable utilitarian and relatively affordable tool.

Of course, the dichotomy isn't as wide as it used to be, as both sport and luxury move closer together, but people have to realize the 3 sacrificing more extremity for better overall balance.

If BMW kept the older more extreme mindframe they'd lose lots of customers to the C Class who with its W204 facelift brought a big about-face elegant interior makeover and ambiance compared to the horrendously crude and austere pre-facelift WHICH complimented what seemed to be improved comfort and refinement all around. And anyone who says that the F30 feels more like an M-B hasn't driven a C Class. Pit a C250 to a 328i and there simply isn't a comparison in dynamics. One feels like an absolute soulless slug with smooth and luxurious driving traits for its class, and the other feels like a well balanced, lively sporty Sedan with comfort to match.
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  #87  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
For 2014 the Sport steering wheel will be std on all models including non-line I believe.

If you read many of the reviews on this site, a lot of owners drive in modes other than sport. Personally, when I lad a base loaner, I drove it in Sport nearly the entire day but if I were to drive a lot on the freeway Eco-Pro would be fine.
You're talking about the "regular" Sport wheel, correct (i.e not M Sport)? I ask because I saw a 320i in white at a dealer, literally the most bland and basic 3-Series you can get right now as it had no Line, those ghastly reflector-halogen headlamps, maybe 1-2 options total with a low price tag to match, however somehow had an M Sport steering wheel in it which of course wasn't on an options list. Maybe a dealer installed item? Looked pathetic and awkward to have an "M" decal anywhere on the interior of this particular 3.
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  #88  
Old 07-18-2013, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
You're talking about the "regular" Sport wheel, correct (i.e not M Sport)? I ask because I saw a 320i in white at a dealer, literally the most bland and basic 3-Series you can get right now as it had no Line, those ghastly reflector-halogen headlamps, maybe 1-2 options total with a low price tag to match, however somehow had an M Sport steering wheel in it which of course wasn't on an options list. Maybe a dealer installed item? Looked pathetic and awkward to have an "M" decal anywhere on the interior of this particular 3.
320 sport package includes the M Sport wheel.
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  #89  
Old 07-18-2013, 05:25 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
+1

I think it has become more about luxury, gas mileage, and tech gizmos. Now engine power wise BMW has not lost it and still dominates the rest of driving dynamics have taken a back seat to efficient dynamics philosophy.
Efficient Dynamics are driving a lot of decisions but I think that added refinement is also part of the F30. It's a considerably more modern and sophisticated driving experience than the E90. The experience is quieter, smoother and in general less frenetic. I can see where some lament this but in reality the capabilities are higher in the F30 but less engaging.
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  #90  
Old 07-18-2013, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Efficient Dynamics are driving a lot of decisions but I think that added refinement is also part of the F30. It's a considerably more modern and sophisticated driving experience than the E90. The experience is quieter, smoother and in general less frenetic. I can see where some lament this but in reality the capabilities are higher in the F30 but less engaging.
Which is essentially the problem. The F30's chassis is probably leaps and bounds better then the e9x, and probably even more balanced, but you can't really explore what it can really do, because that driver centric feeling is gone.
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  #91  
Old 07-18-2013, 06:38 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Which is essentially the problem. The F30's chassis is probably leaps and bounds better then the e9x, and probably even more balanced, but you can't really explore what it can really do, because that driver centric feeling is gone.
I wouldn't say you can't explore the limits which are quite high but the experience is dampened. The F30 feels more stable at these limits and I'd guess this is even more so on a less than perfect road. It's just not as visceral. Where the car would lose out to a similarly equipped E90 (I'm guessing) would be in a series of quick switchbacks like in a slalom where the decreased roll resistance would be an issue.
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  #92  
Old 07-18-2013, 11:35 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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If you call softer ride and more floaty standard suspension and a hybrid dull ECOPRO mode and cheaper hard plastic use to accommodate cost cutting in interior added refinement then maybe so. The start stop is clumsy the 4 cylinder turbo sounds less special then the inline-6 it replaces.

I am not saying F30 is not improved in some areas as it is. The rear seat room is greater, gas mileage is improved, and the 8-speed is nice. The interior design looks nice except for standard bus like steering wheel. Now here do not confuse the design of interior with quality of materials. Because hard plastic in F30 feels low grade compared to both E46 and E90.

However, the bottom line is the new slogan Efficient Dynamics is producing far less driver oriented cars and far more Eco/family friendly cars.

I for one would like to return to the Slogan of Driving Dynamics days where cars were first and fore most sports sedan. Then BMW will let the rest of the pieces fall as they would in its place and it worked too as for more then 4 decades. The BMW brand has produced one after another wonderful driver oriented sports sedans. This is the first BMW 3 series that has taken the most heavy criticism for being too soft.


The F30 fan boy will say that it is previous owners bias not so the case. The car testing publications as well as even BMW will admit that the F30 was designed to appeal to wider range of demographic. In other word they had to tone down the hard core sporty flavor a bit in favor of more soft core flavor to attract wider audience.

As for the F30 having superiority in performance. Yes, the straight line of 328i is greatly improved. The rest of the package I am not so sure about because when you compare how a F30 335i M-sport does on a track against the older generation E92 335i. It seems to not display any great advantage. So all this advancement and nothing to show for it.

So now to the main question. Is BMW 3 series still good among its peers.

Well then the answer is like this...............: You decided it is like asking is a 1 eyed man still good among blind men.


I hope that BMW returns to its older core beliefs of Driving Dynamics first. Because it is what brought BMW here.



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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Efficient Dynamics are driving a lot of decisions but I think that added refinement is also part of the F30. It's a considerably more modern and sophisticated driving experience than the E90. The experience is quieter, smoother and in general less frenetic. I can see where some lament this but in reality the capabilities are higher in the F30 but less engaging.

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-20-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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  #93  
Old 07-19-2013, 05:29 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
If you call softer ride and more floaty standard suspension and a hybrid dull ECOPRO mode and cheaper hard plastic use to accommodate cost cutting in interior added refinement then maybe so. The start stop is clumsy the 4 cylinder turbo sounds less special then the inline-6 it replaces.

I am not saying F30 is not improved in some areas as it is. The rear seat room is greater, gas mileage is improved, and the 8-speed is nice. The interior design looks nice except for standard bus like steering wheel. Now here do not confuse the design of interior with quality of materials. Because hard plastic in F30 feels low grade compared to both E46 and E90.

However, the bottom line is the new slogan Efficient Dynamics is producing far less driver oriented cars and far more Eco/family friendly cars.

I for one would like to return to the Slogan of Driving Dynamics days where cars were first and fore most sports sedan. Then BMW will let the rest of the pieces fall as they would in its place and it worked too as for more then 4 decades. The BMW brand has produced one after another wonderful driver oriented sports sedans. This is the first BMW 3 series that has taken the most heavy criticism for being too soft.


The F30 fan boy will say that it is previous owners bias not so the case. The car testing publications as well as even BMW will admit that the F30 was designed to appeal to wider range of demographic. In other word they had to tone down the hard core sporty flavor a bit in favor of more soft core flavor to attract wider audience.

As for the F30 having superiority in performance. Yes, the straight line of 328i is greatly improved. The rest of the package I am not so sure about because when you compare how a F30 335i M-sport does on a track against the older generation E92 335i. It seems to not display any great advantage. So all this advancement and nothing to show for it.

So now to the main question. Is BMW 3 series still good among it peer.

Well then the answer is like this...............: You decided it is like asking is a 1 eyed man still good among blind men.


I hope that BMW returns to its older core beliefs of Driving Dynamics first. Because it is what brought BMW here.
There's no doubt that a base suspension F30 is dynamically inferior to a base E90. That's a shame. However the enthusiast driver who buys a RWD F30 Sportline or other line or base with the DHP will find the car to be very refined. I'm talking about how the car functions as an everyday driver. It's less frenetic, smoother, quieter and more poised than the E90. The interior is more interesting and functional. Everyone focuses on the plastic on the console but it's not a big deal and it's assembled flawlessly. It's just not padded. As far as the Eco Pro mode, if you don't like it, there are the comfort and sport modes at the flick of a switch. Not a big deal. And for 2014 the "bus like" steering wheel is replaced with the MSport wheel as std equipment.

Yes the F30 is not as visceral as the E90 and that's a step back IMO. But a Sportline model as an everyday driver is a great sport sedan with the added benefit of new features and refinement.
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  #94  
Old 07-19-2013, 05:59 AM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
There's no doubt that a base suspension F30 is dynamically inferior to a base E90. That's a shame. However the enthusiast driver who buys a RWD F30 Sportline or other line or base with the DHP will find the car to be very refined. I'm talking about how the car functions as an everyday driver. It's less frenetic, smoother, quieter and more poised than the E90. The interior is more interesting and functional. Everyone focuses on the plastic on the console but it's not a big deal and it's assembled flawlessly. It's just not padded. As far as the Eco Pro mode, if you don't like it, there are the comfort and sport modes at the flick of a switch. Not a big deal. And for 2014 the "bus like" steering wheel is replaced with the MSport wheel as std equipment.

Yes the F30 is not as visceral as the E90 and that's a step back IMO. But a Sportline model as an everyday driver is a great sport sedan with the added benefit of new features and refinement.
Where is it said that all 2014's come with sport steering and the M sport steering wheel?
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  #95  
Old 07-19-2013, 06:53 AM
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That'd be ridiculous. So a non-M Sport base 320i really has an "M" Sport wheel? Which means EVERY F30 sold will have an "M" badge on the car? If so, BMW really crossed the line there.

I wonder how they'd explain that to customers paying much higher prices for higher level models who still have to get the actual M Sport package to get the M Sport wheel.
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  #96  
Old 07-19-2013, 07:16 AM
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I don't see good driving dynamics and refinement as an either/or choice. With the technology available today it is easily possible to design a car that combines comfort with performance.

A car does not need to have a bone jarring suspension to handle well and it does not need to have excessive body lean to have a comfortable ride.

I think a lot of the problems with recent designs can be attributed to the trend to extreme low profile tires and RFTs with stiff side walls. Since the tires are no longer able to absorb road shocks suspension design is more critical than ever. I predict that adaptive suspension technology will become pervasive and be standard equipment on many cars, and not just higher end cars, in the very near future. At this point given the environments I drive in I would not consider any car that did not have some form of adaptive suspension.

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  #97  
Old 07-19-2013, 07:24 AM
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I've yet to drive a car with adaptive suspension that is as well balanced and natural feeling as a good passive suspension. The F10 being the best case in point that getting an M Sport and paying extra for the Active suspension (which in turns loses you the standard M Sport "M Suspension" for the ARS) downgrades the cars driving dynamics sportively and adds maybe a negligible amount of extra comfort.

The best suspensions in either comfort or/AND sport I've experienced have been passive suspensions that (and the key factor here) were designed to be inherently balanced and mated to the chassis at hand, harmoniously. Not to mention they're far more dependable in the long term.
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  #98  
Old 07-19-2013, 07:34 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
That'd be ridiculous. So a non-M Sport base 320i really has an "M" Sport wheel? Which means EVERY F30 sold will have an "M" badge on the car? If so, BMW really crossed the line there.

I wonder how they'd explain that to customers paying much higher prices for higher level models who still have to get the actual M Sport package to get the M Sport wheel.
I don't see what the big deal is.

It's an M badged STEERING wheel. It is part of a $1300 SPORT package, the kind that has been offered for decades.

Are people forgetting M-Technic E30 325's or E36 M package 318TIs where you got sporting hardware from M cars or M branding on even the most basic models?
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:55 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Mein Auto: 2014 328i Sport Line MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by EstorilF30 View Post
Where is it said that all 2014's come with sport steering and the M sport steering wheel?
It's in the Sticky at the top of the page about changes for 2014. Regarding it being an MSport wheel, another post corrected me and said this is the case. Definitely a sport steering wheel is std for 2014. I cannot confirm that this is true for the 320i. And no one said anything about "sport steering" whatever that is. The Sport setting tightens up the steering.

Last edited by Michael Schott; 07-19-2013 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:26 PM
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Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I don't see what the big deal is.

It's an M badged STEERING wheel. It is part of a $1300 SPORT package, the kind that has been offered for decades.

Are people forgetting M-Technic E30 325's or E36 M package 318TIs where you got sporting hardware from M cars or M branding on even the most basic models?
On the Sticky thread it states they're getting a "Sport" wheel as standard, not sure if that means "M Sport" after all?

My issue with it is that BMW are already teetering the line of devaluing the "M" branding, which I don't have too big a problem of if done right (I.e on M Sport models, go at it), but if every single F30 from bottom to top has a driver who sees the "M" badging right in front of their faces, then the brands specialness goes down the drain, IMO. At that point the most common BMW with no extra packaging at all gets it which in turn means it's a completely generic/ubiquitous symbol.
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