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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 07-20-2013, 01:25 AM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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I agree that interior design is more interesting but at the expense of cheap plastic. To me it makes a difference in a over $30K luxury car.

I have driven F30 328i/335i base and I did not find them to be more refined except for in terms of transmission. The 8-speed is the best thing I like in F30.

However, this edge that is found in base car goes away in more upscale cars as E92 335i were coming with 7-speed DCT. So an edge for the base car but nothing to brag about in upper performance models.

The inline-6 was more refined in its nature then the current 4 cylinder turbo. So BMW actually gave up refinement in engine for out right power. The NVH of turbo 4 lags behind that of inline-6 without a doubt. It feels more harsh and sounds a bit crude not as sophisticated as the inline-6.

Some people claim M-sport is some miracle that fixes all the flaws of F30. I highly doubt. As even in sport line or M-sport the F30 loses to cars like Lexus IS350 F-sport when it comes to driving dynamics. Now I have driven the new Lexus IS250 F-sport and 350 F-sport and I can tell you that they both are not on par with a out going E92 335i spt. pkg in terms of absolute driving dynamics and fun to drive ratio.

Most reviews will clearly point out the same issues regardless of which one you pick the base, sport line, or M-sport pkg. All the F30 versions are softer period when compared to the equivalent model of previous E9x generation. Its steering feel and feedback is not on par. Thus, compromising further its ability to be as good as previous generation in driving dynamics.

I agree one can drive F30 in comfort mode if ECO PRO is too lethargic but at the expense of gas mileage. If you turn off the stuttering stop and go ditto is the case. In other words you turn all those things off and drive it in sport + or Sport then what is the point of buying a car with numb and dull EPS steering in name of efficient dynamics. Then why not just give us a good ol fashion 3 series that is all about driving dynamics.

Like I said earlier that F30 in M-sport is probably still a nice car even though I can't stand the base version. However, even in that form it is clearly not as good as what BMW is capable of making it. It will drive like a compromise. As that is what it is because it was made to make masses happy rather then stick with what BMW is well known for.........making a hard core sports sedan with great driving dynamics.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
There's no doubt that a base suspension F30 is dynamically inferior to a base E90. That's a shame. However the enthusiast driver who buys a RWD F30 Sportline or other line or base with the DHP will find the car to be very refined. I'm talking about how the car functions as an everyday driver. It's less frenetic, smoother, quieter and more poised than the E90. The interior is more interesting and functional. Everyone focuses on the plastic on the console but it's not a big deal and it's assembled flawlessly. It's just not padded. As far as the Eco Pro mode, if you don't like it, there are the comfort and sport modes at the flick of a switch. Not a big deal. And for 2014 the "bus like" steering wheel is replaced with the MSport wheel as std equipment.

Yes the F30 is not as visceral as the E90 and that's a step back IMO. But a Sportline model as an everyday driver is a great sport sedan with the added benefit of new features and refinement.

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-21-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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  #102  
Old 07-20-2013, 06:21 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
I agree that interior design is more interesting but at the expense of cheap plastic. To me it makes a difference in a over $30K luxury car.

I have driven F30 328i/335i base and I did not find them to be more refined except for in terms of transmission. The 8-speed is the best thing I like in F30.

However, this edge that is found in base car goes away in more upscale cars as E92 335i were coming with 7-speed DCT. So an edge for the base car but nothing to brag about in upper performance models.

The inline-6 was more refined in its nature then the current 4 cylinder turbo. So BMW actually gave up refinement in engine for out right power. The NVH of turbo 4 lags behind that of inline-6 without a doubt. It feels more harsh and sounds a bit crude not as sophisticated as the inline-6.

Some people claim M-sport is some miracle that fixes all the flaws of F30. I highly doubt. As even in sport line or M-sport the F30 loses to cars like Lexus IS350 F-sport when it comes to driving dynamics. Now I have driven the new Lexus IS250 F-sport and 350 F-sport and I can tell you that they both are not on par with a out going E92 335i spt. pkg in terms of absolute driving dynamics and fun to drive ratio.

Most reviews will clearly point out the same issues regardless of which one you pick the base, sport line, or M-sport pkg. All the F30 versions are softer period when compared to the equivalent model of previous E9x generation. Its steering feel and feedback is not on par. Thus, compromising further its ability to be as good as previous generation in driving dynamics.

I agree one can drive F30 in comfort mode if ECO PRO is too lethargic but at the expense of gas mileage. If you turn the stuttering stop and go ditto is the case. In other words you turn all those things off and drive it in sport + or Sport then what is the point of buying a car with numb and dull EPS steering in name of efficient dynamics. Then why not just give us a good ol fashion 3 series that is all about driving dynamics.

Like I said earlier that F30 in M-sport is probably still a nice car even though I can't stand the base version. However, even in that form it is clearly not as good as what BMW is capable of making it. It will drive like a compromise. As that is what it is because it was made to make masses happy rather then stick with what BMW is well known for.........making a hard core sports sedan with great driving dynamics.
All I can do is relate my experience driving an F30 Sportline. Compared to my E90 base it's quieter and much more composed over the road. The suspension is much more sorted. The drawback is a lack of feedback although the capabilities are very high. That's what I mean by refinement. So may see this as a negative but the only changes I'd make are to increase roll stiffness and add steering feel. Other than that its a superior car to the E90. And BMW is not in the business of making a hard core sport sedan. If that's what you want get a WRX.

Last edited by Michael Schott; 07-20-2013 at 06:23 AM.
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  #103  
Old 07-20-2013, 06:31 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
All I can do is relate my experience driving an F30 Sportline. Compared to my E90 base it's quieter and much more composed over the road. The suspension is much more sorted. The drawback is a lack of feedback although the capabilities are very high. That's what I mean by refinement. So may see this as a negative but the only changes I'd make are to increase roll stiffness and add steering feel. Other than that its a superior car to the E90. And BMW is not in the business of making a hard core sport sedan. If that's what you want get a WRX.
The increases you are asking for came largely from ditching the runflat tires and putting on lighter wheels, and then more so with proper springs. This trilogy has been done on the last 5+ cars I have owned, it's almost required. But the F30 screams out for it more than any other-largely due to the handicap of the funflats and the EPS' sensitivity to wheel and tire weight and design.
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  #104  
Old 07-21-2013, 02:11 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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If you compare a base E90 to F30 spt. line the difference might not be as pronounced. If you compare E90 base to F30 base you come away with a different experience.

I do not fine WRX-sti more hard core then a good sorted out performance BMW like 1M. They both are similar in size but I will take 1M over WRX-STi any day for hard core performance in a refined pkg. any day of the week and twice on weekends. I like the rear drive flavor void of inherent flaws that come from a heavier AWD setup and the under steer that is a feature in most AWD cars.

I think hard core driving dynamics does not mean you have to settle for cheap materials and lack of refinement as is the case with WRX-Sti. A 1M is refined yet equally or more hard core then WRX-Sti which feels no more hard core in driving dynamics yet can come away feeling more cheaper.

I fully believe BMW is capable of making a hard core sports sedan without sacrificing refinement or avoiding cheap materials an plastic.....point



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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
All I can do is relate my experience driving an F30 Sportline. Compared to my E90 base it's quieter and much more composed over the road. The suspension is much more sorted. The drawback is a lack of feedback although the capabilities are very high. That's what I mean by refinement. So may see this as a negative but the only changes I'd make are to increase roll stiffness and add steering feel. Other than that its a superior car to the E90. And BMW is not in the business of making a hard core sport sedan. If that's what you want get a WRX.
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  #105  
Old 07-21-2013, 02:22 PM
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A friend of mine bought a new WRX but found it much too noisy and rough riding to be a daily and highway vehicle.
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  #106  
Old 07-21-2013, 02:45 PM
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A friend had a highly modified WRX and an M6. He claimed that the WRX was every bit as fast as his M6, but the difference was, at 150 in the WRX, you knew that you were doing 150, but in the bimmer there was no sensation of that kind of speed.
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  #107  
Old 07-21-2013, 06:55 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The increases you are asking for came largely from ditching the runflat tires and putting on lighter wheels, and then more so with proper springs. This trilogy has been done on the last 5+ cars I have owned, it's almost required. But the F30 screams out for it more than any other-largely due to the handicap of the funflats and the EPS' sensitivity to wheel and tire weight and design.
I lease cars. I don't change out wheels or tires. I'm not looking for the ultimate in handling. The F30 has more refinement with RFT's and stock tires.
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  #108  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:03 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
If you compare a base E90 to F30 spt. line the difference might not be as pronounced. If you compare E90 base to F30 base you come away with a different experience.

I do not fine WRX-sti more hard core then a good sorted out performance BMW like 1M. They both are similar in size but I will take 1M over WRX-STi any day for hard core performance in a refined pkg. any day of the week and twice on weekends. I like the rear drive flavor void of inherent flaws that come from a heavier AWD setup and the under steer that is a feature in most AWD cars.

I think hard core driving dynamics does not mean you have to settle for cheap materials and lack of refinement as is the case with WRX-Sti. A 1M is refined yet equally or more hard core then WRX-Sti which feels no more hard core in driving dynamics yet can come away feeling more cheaper.

I fully believe BMW is capable of making a hard core sports sedan without sacrificing refinement or avoiding cheap materials an plastic.....point
A 1M (135M)? First of all they are more than $10K more than a WRX-STI, second, good luck finding one. M cars are a different animal. A decently optioned E90 M3 was $70K while a decently optioned E90 335 with Sport was under $50K. Totally different markets.
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  #109  
Old 07-22-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
I agree that interior design is more interesting but at the expense of cheap plastic. To me it makes a difference in a over $30K luxury car.
Give it a rest, we all owned E90's, the interior materials are the same.

BJ
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  #110  
Old 07-22-2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Give it a rest, we all owned E90's, the interior materials are the same.

BJ
Keep telling yourself that...

I had a 2013 F30 Sport/Premium loaner for almost 3 weeks and it's obvious the materials have been downgraded. Most noticeable are the large swaths of cheap plastic on the front doors. That said the build quality is as good or better, and driver ergonomics are much improved over the E90.
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  #111  
Old 07-22-2013, 04:31 PM
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Keep telling yourself that...

I had a 2013 F30 Sport/Premium loaner for almost 3 weeks and it's obvious the materials have been downgraded. Most noticeable are the large swaths of cheap plastic on the front doors. That said the build quality is as good or better, and driver ergonomics are much improved over the E90.


The materials are exactly the same. And there's absolutely nothing luxurious about the E9X interior. I don't know what's worse, the cupholders designed by a kindergarten student or the big cavity created by the iDrive controller that is not there.

Perhaps it's the tiny vents designed for a dwarf, or maybe it's the windshield designed to chip when a speck of dust hits it. The interior looks like it's covered in dog skin, and the carpet is most definitely thinner and flatter.

Every F30 owner also owned the crappy old rattlebox E9X. You can't fool us, chief.

BJ
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  #112  
Old 07-22-2013, 05:03 PM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post


The materials are exactly the same. And there's absolutely nothing luxurious about the E9X interior. I don't know what's worse, the cupholders designed by a kindergarten student or the big cavity created by the iDrive controller that is not there.

Perhaps it's the tiny vents designed for a dwarf, or maybe it's the windshield designed to chip when a speck of dust hits it. The interior looks like it's covered in dog skin, and the carpet is most definitely thinner and flatter.

Every F30 owner also owned the crappy old rattlebox E9X. You can't fool us, chief.

BJ
Yea, out of all the areas to make a case of the E90 > F30, the interior is not one of them ...
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  #113  
Old 07-22-2013, 06:54 PM
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Yea, out of all the areas to make a case of the E90 > F30, the interior is not one of them ...
I can't think of a single area in which the E90 is the superior of the F30, not one.

The laggy engine, the lack of torque, the awkward transmission, the stripped cockpit, the missing standard features, the soft windshield, the creaks & rattles, the noisy climate control system, the tiny radio display, and the Pachinko-machine Bangle styling is all (thankfully) a thing of the past and the one purportedly detrimental area that has some merit is slowly growing on me as well- the supposedly "numb" steering is really much easier on the muscles especially on driveways and parking lots and has the type of power steering feel of a proper luxury car.

At the time I owned my E90 I loved it, but it's been eclipsed by the F30 and that party's over. As soon as CPO F30's hit the aftermarket, all these E90 cheapskates will sing it's praises. I should take names, it'll be fun to expose them in 24 months.

BJ
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  #114  
Old 07-22-2013, 07:17 PM
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The materials are exactly the same.
BJ
OK
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  #115  
Old 07-22-2013, 07:52 PM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I can't think of a single area in which the E90 is the superior of the F30, not one.

The laggy engine, the lack of torque, the awkward transmission, the stripped cockpit, the missing standard features, the soft windshield, the creaks & rattles, the noisy climate control system, the tiny radio display, and the Pachinko-machine Bangle styling is all (thankfully) a thing of the past and the one purportedly detrimental area that has some merit is slowly growing on me as well- the supposedly "numb" steering is really much easier on the muscles especially on driveways and parking lots and has the type of power steering feel of a proper luxury car.

At the time I owned my E90 I loved it, but it's been eclipsed by the F30 and that party's over. As soon as CPO F30's hit the aftermarket, all these E90 cheapskates will sing it's praises. I should take names, it'll be fun to expose them in 24 months.

BJ
I was agreeing with you
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  #116  
Old 07-22-2013, 08:09 PM
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I was agreeing with you
I know.

I was elaborating.

BJ
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  #117  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:23 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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I have driven over 8 different F30 328i and 335i. The longest one was at my home for 3 weeks almost.

So you give it a rest if you can't tell the difference between hard plastic that is used in F30 vs. not the hard plastic in E90.

Also, your attempt to post a picture of a E90 sedan does not show material quality feels. Maybe your eyes are extra sensitive where they can do the job of feeling sensation and eyesight.

All you are showing is the improved interior design out look not quality. Seriously, please think before you post other wise it makes you look ignorant.

Also, there are plenty of areas where E90 is superior to the F30. The most important being driving dynamics and the steering feel and feedback. It is not just what I believe or few others most publications that test these vehicles will say the same thing. Your denying it makes you seem like you are in denial of plain facts and nothing more.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree at this point because due to your purchase of a F30 you are becoming defensive and not looking at things objectively.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Give it a rest, we all owned E90's, the interior materials are the same.

BJ

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-22-2013 at 11:28 PM.
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  #118  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I can't think of a single area in which the E90 is the superior of the F30, not one.

The laggy engine, the lack of torque, the awkward transmission, the stripped cockpit, the missing standard features, the soft windshield, the creaks & rattles, the noisy climate control system, the tiny radio display, and the Pachinko-machine Bangle styling is all (thankfully) a thing of the past and the one purportedly detrimental area that has some merit is slowly growing on me as well- the supposedly "numb" steering is really much easier on the muscles especially on driveways and parking lots and has the type of power steering feel of a proper luxury car.

At the time I owned my E90 I loved it, but it's been eclipsed by the F30 and that party's over. As soon as CPO F30's hit the aftermarket, all these E90 cheapskates will sing it's praises. I should take names, it'll be fun to expose them in 24 months.

BJ
Body roll. The F30 has plenty of it, the e90 has none of it.
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  #119  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:47 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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With all due respect I am not the one who brought WRX in this discussion you did. Yes, it is $10K more because of its refinement over WRX. Yet, the point in case I was making to you has nothing to do with it. Because the point was and still is that BMW is fully capable of making equally hard core cars as any WRX or EVO without them feeling crappy and cheap.

I think you are losing focus of what we were discussing.

All, I was saying is that BMW is fully capable of making hardcore cars like 1M. This is what made BMW famous making hardcore sports luxury sedans and sporty luxury 4 seater with great driving dynamics. Instead of this recent trend that focus too much attention on making iphone on 4 wheels so the dash strokers are happy.

The 300 and so 1M sold out in no time here in NA. market. People willing to pay well over the asking price. So many people want cars like that which are focused first and fore most on original core BMW beliefs of "Driving Dynamics" and then let the pieces fall where they belong. I am not against efficiency but not at the expense of driving dynamics. Also, I can give up some dash stroking in favor of greater steering feel and feed back.

There is demand for what BMW is good at and that is not making sporty Toyota's. The loyal enthusiast are the driving force behind every successful niche car maker as is the case with BMW and Porsche. I guess BMW's desire of becoming a new Toyota is blinding their efforts. In their effort to appeal to masses they will be losing support of the core enthusiast who will be here well after the Toyota badged into BMW desiring crowd is gone in search of the next best iphone on wheels.

I am all for change but when it is going back wards in terms of driving dynamics in one of my favorite automobile marquees. Then I will not stand for it and will raise my discontent with it a loyal enthusiast who stood by the brand for more then a decade with his wallet and multiple BMW models in his garage.

I think if you can't understand my point despite my explaining it multiple times then my effort is wasted. I guess we will leave it at that we will agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
A 1M (135M)? First of all they are more than $10K more than a WRX-STI, second, good luck finding one. M cars are a different animal. A decently optioned E90 M3 was $70K while a decently optioned E90 335 with Sport was under $50K. Totally different markets.

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-22-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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  #120  
Old 07-23-2013, 05:05 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
With all due respect I am not the one who brought WRX in this discussion you did. Yes, it is $10K more because of its refinement over WRX. Yet, the point in case I was making to you has nothing to do with it. Because the point was and still is that BMW is fully capable of making equally hard core cars as any WRX or EVO without them feeling crappy and cheap.

I think you are losing focus of what we were discussing.

All, I was saying is that BMW is fully capable of making hardcore cars like 1M. This is what made BMW famous making hardcore sports luxury sedans and sporty luxury 4 seater with great driving dynamics. Instead of this recent trend that focus too much attention on making iphone on 4 wheels so the dash strokers are happy.

The 300 and so 1M sold out in no time here in NA. market. People willing to pay well over the asking price. So many people want cars like that which are focused first and fore most on original core BMW beliefs of "Driving Dynamics" and then let the pieces fall where they belong. I am not against efficiency but not at the expense of driving dynamics. Also, I can give up some dash stroking in favor of greater steering feel and feed back.

There is demand for what BMW is good at and that is not making sporty Toyota's. The loyal enthusiast are the driving force behind every successful niche car maker as is the case with BMW and Porsche. I guess BMW's desire of becoming a new Toyota is blinding their efforts. In their effort to appeal to masses they will be losing support of the core enthusiast who will be here well after the Toyota badged into BMW desiring crowd is gone in search of the next best iphone on wheels.

I am all for change but when it is going back wards in terms of driving dynamics in one of my favorite automobile marquees. Then I will not stand for it and will raise my discontent with it a loyal enthusiast who stood by the brand for more then a decade with his wallet and multiple BMW models in his garage.

I think if you can't understand my point despite my explaining it multiple times then my effort is wasted. I guess we will leave it at that we will agree to disagree.
My point is that BMW does not make hard core sport sedans or at least hasn't in a long time. The 135M is not hard core, whatever that means and the M3 most certainly is a great all around car. It's not hard core.

But let's not talk about the extreme part of the line. The bread and butter 3 series has always been the more basic models, whether equipped with sport pack or not. None of these are hard core. They are family cars that are among the sportiest in their class. The F30 is not as engaging as past models but it is just as capable while being a better all around car. I may lament the extra body roll,the EPS and the loss of the I6 but for all but the most enthusiast drivers its a great car. Remember, it's a daily driver not a niche sports car.
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  #121  
Old 07-23-2013, 05:41 AM
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Saintor Saintor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I can't think of a single area in which the E90 is the superior of the F30, not one.

BJ
As most Lexus owners.

"Dynamically" the E90 is definitely superior to the F30.

"Dynamically" is the raison d'ŕtre of a BMW.
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  #122  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:33 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Mein Auto: BMW 328i SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I can't think of a single area in which the E90 is the superior of the F30, not one.

The laggy engine, the lack of torque, the awkward transmission, the stripped cockpit, the missing standard features, the soft windshield, the creaks & rattles, the noisy climate control system, the tiny radio display, and the Pachinko-machine Bangle styling is all (thankfully) a thing of the past and the one purportedly detrimental area that has some merit is slowly growing on me as well- the supposedly "numb" steering is really much easier on the muscles especially on driveways and parking lots and has the type of power steering feel of a proper luxury car.

At the time I owned my E90 I loved it, but it's been eclipsed by the F30 and that party's over. As soon as CPO F30's hit the aftermarket, all these E90 cheapskates will sing it's praises. I should take names, it'll be fun to expose them in 24 months.

BJ
How about handling, steering or braking?

"What Needs Work: Doesn't handle, steer or stop as well as its predecessor...."
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...oad-test2.html
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  #123  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:38 AM
MercF30_GA MercF30_GA is offline
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Location: Atlanta
 
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Mein Auto: 2013 328i
Being another one that just made the seamless jump from an 2011 328i to a 2013 328i I will say there is not one single thing I miss about my previous car. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed every minute of time I spent behind the wheel of it but in the few short days I've had my new baby I can say it's definitely an evolution in the model series.

If I had to knit pick two small things that my outgoing model did better a little better I will say it's this:

1. The engine was much more quiet around idle. My wife is already complaining that the new one sounds like a diesel

2. The steering on my previous model did feel "tighter" and perhaps added a little bit more of a sporty feel. Now I will say also before I pass this judgement completely that I am still in the break in period and havent given her a good ole romp yet. But in the spirited cornering I have done the F30 definitely is very well composed upon egress and digress of turns and the steering is much more effortless.

Also my previous car did not have nav but it did have the oyster interior with the dark wood grain and I will say that the understated clean lines of the minimalist previous interior does have something of a timeless appeal to me. The new interior is a sculpted contemporary work of art in it's own way, but much more complex.

This is just merely my opinion. The take away really is that I just fall in love with every new rendition of BMW I've owned and it's the only car that makes me feel like a gitty school girl that just got her license for the first time and is anxious to scream justin bieber at the top of her lungs as she passes by her school friends in her new car daddy just bought.
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  #124  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:20 AM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 335d & 2014 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I can't think of a single area in which the E90 is the superior of the F30, not one.

The laggy engine, the lack of torque, the awkward transmission, the stripped cockpit, the missing standard features, the soft windshield, the creaks & rattles, the noisy climate control system, the tiny radio display, and the Pachinko-machine Bangle styling is all (thankfully) a thing of the past and the one purportedly detrimental area that has some merit is slowly growing on me as well- the supposedly "numb" steering is really much easier on the muscles especially on driveways and parking lots and has the type of power steering feel of a proper luxury car.
...

BJ
BJ, have you never owned 335i or 335d? Seriously, that "numb" steering is great for estrogen filled drivers. There sure are tons of metrosexual men sweating about turning HPS these days.
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  #125  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:44 AM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Location: germany
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Give it a rest, we all owned E90's, the interior materials are the same.

BJ
+1
plus WHO said a 3er is a luxury car in the first place?? to me a 5 series entry level lux, and the 7's are true luxury uber-sedans. to me, a f30 in particular, is a higly engineered sedan, but a luxury car it is not. my e60 is certainly comfortable, but a luxury sedan??? not too sure about that. my wifes f30 has alot of gizmos and gadgets that even my e60 doesnt have. i think people are getting confused about what luxury is. gadgets and connectivity do not equal luxury. again to me the only true luxury cars out there are merc S calss, bmw 7's, audi A8, and perhaps high end lexus's. just my 2cents.
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