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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #201  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:53 AM
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K-A K-A is online now
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BMW's ZF8 with SAT is the best tranny I've ever experienced. I think I even like it more than Porsche's PDK, or at least just as much (the PDK is pretty damn awesome, both are perfect "auto" tranny's).

The F30 is indeed no-contest more refined than the E90 as a whole, especially the exterior design and ride composure. The whole interior layout gives a more refined vibe but I do feel the plastics here and there are a step back. BMW's as a whole have been improving rapidly in interior quality since the F Chassis cars came out, but I and many do feel the F30 is a step back in the material quality regard. A little too blatant in plastic-material cost cutting, and too uncharacteristically unlike its bigger F Chassis brothers in refinement and finish.

As for the N20, it's a luxurious motor in the performance sense, i.e it's effortless, however it's not a very luxurious motor in terms of vibrations and sound. The N/A I6 really felt "expensive" to match an "expensive" car, the N20 doesn't "feel" "expensive" to me, however it performs (in the 3-Series, not so much in the heavier 5-Series) in a way that translates that the company behind it is capable of (and does) making the best engines in the world. IMO to get the true BMW experience, that distinctively silky-smooth yet lusciously-growly I6 is a key element, and it never loses its composure or sounds offensive (instead it sounds riveting) like the 4-cylinder does at idle and when straining (or when the ASS sends shivers across the car due to its startup nature). I6's being inherently balanced never send a shiver into the cabins behind them, which cannot be said about the N20, who even on the more isolated 5-Series can be "felt" inside the cabin.

E90 VS F30 fights here tend to get extremely one-sided in views IMO.
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Last edited by K-A; 07-25-2013 at 03:58 AM.
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  #202  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:04 AM
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Saintor Saintor is offline
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Quote:
The interior quality of plastic being used is of lower level.
Sorry but I'll give the F30 the nod for the overall interior. It is not like if the E90 plastic felt great .... it was clearly a downgrade from the E46.

Quote:
It would have been great if BMW could have developed a normally aspirated I6 with the power and fuel economy of the N20 but CAFE standards made that unrealistic.
You are overlooking that the EPA figures for the 328i/335i are exactly the same.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32904&id=33054

Yes it would have been possible a normally aspirated I6 with 250-270HP with similar fuel economy. Asian carmakers are pretty close, are not even using direct injection and using regular instead of premium, *costs less to run*.

The 6-cyl. is one big factor that separated BMW from the rest in the entry-level luxo segment. At least it is not dead although it is more $ to get one.
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  #203  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:33 AM
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minn19 minn19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Sorry but I'll give the F30 the nod for the overall interior. It is not like if the E90 plastic felt great .... it was clearly a downgrade from the E46.



You are overlooking that the EPA figures for the 328i/335i are exactly the same.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32904&id=33054

Yes it would have been possible a normally aspirated I6 with 250-270HP with similar fuel economy. Asian carmakers are pretty close, are not even using direct injection and using regular instead of premium, *costs less to run*.

The 6-cyl. is one big factor that separated BMW from the rest in the entry-level luxo segment. At least it is not dead although it is more $ to get one.
Get the 6 if you want while you can. I have a feeling that won't be around for very much longer either. CAFE isn't just about MPG, but overall emissions also. I get your points between the two engines and agree with you about some of the N20's faults, but I think it is an amazing engine. I think we have to remember that BMW and other auto makers are looking down the road at what is coming for regulations. Especially in the EU who politically are not car friendly. Fairly recently there has been talk from some of the more extreme politicians of banning some sports cars. As a car lover and enthusiast I am glad BMW and others are making engines like this so in the future we can still have some fun cars...hopefully.
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  #204  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:40 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Here's where I stand on these points:

1) Yes the I6 is more refined in feel than the N20 turbo. But the N20 makes more power, is a great 4 cylinder and just plain feels faster. I don't find it at as all unrefined as some. It would have been great if BMW could have developed a normally aspirated I6 with the power and fuel economy of the N20 but CAFE standards made that unrealistic. I'm perfectly satisfied with the N20.

2) I've driven an E90 for the last 6 years (a 2008 and now a 2011) so I am very familiar with the interior quality. I have a few hours behind the wheel of an F30 so I have a feel for the interior of this car. The F30 plastic on the console, which everyone seems to point out is hard. It's not a big deal to me. The design of the two models are completely different due to the iDrive controller and the placement of the cup holders. It's far from a deal breaker. I find the quality of some of the switches in the F30 to be inferior to the E90. Not GM cheap but a step down. Again, the functions are perfect and this is not close to a deal breaker. The overall design and functionality of the F30 interior is far more modern and superior to the E90. It's really no contest.

And my last comment for now is the F30 goes down the road in a more refined manner. It's smoother, more in control and less hectic. That is what I mean by more refined.

Now if BMW would tighten up the steering and reduce body roll, it would be a nearly perfect car.
I have been a bit quiet lately by choice.

I am less and less interested in the repetition of these same discussions.

I also have been having fits where I am less than smitten with the F30.

But I will give you some insight into my day with the car yesterday.

I have been driving the Roadster a lot, the F30 has been sitting. I even took off the BMS tune and sold it to fund the engine rebuild of the E36/7, after all the F30 was just sitting.

So now the car is 100% stock with just wheels/tires and springs, the trilogy I do to any car-especially one with run-flats.

Now I keep getting compliments on how the F30 looks, it's the MSport pack, the color, and the wheels. Went to the Sands and the valet lit up, said aww man, MSport, right color, perfect wheels...this is a guy who parked Lambos and 911s seconds before. Also happened when I got gas the same day, guy raved about the looks.

It took me awhile to warm up, but I am officially on board with the looks of MY car. Do I get hot and bothered over the base ho hum car, nope. But mine, I keep doing the second look over my shoulder. Does that make me biased, a fanboi? No, I just like where my car is at in the looks department.

The driving...

This is where things get more complicated

I drove all the way to Maryland yesterday(215 miles each way) to acquire a model car collection.

I drove there in COMFORT mode, 75-80mph much of the way, averaging 70mph and 34.3mpg. It was compliant, comfortable and BORING. Some info gets transmitted to the steering wheel and there is more information coming from the suspension due to the wheels/tires/springs. But I feel like the BMW'ness is buried. I feel that feeling pulling the E36/7 out of the driveway.

Now on the way home, I was less worried about having enough gas, topped it off, put it in SPORT.

I left the gas station from a low roll and went WOT in 1st, banged off a smooth/quick 1-2 which set off the traction light(still happens even stock power and 275mm rear PSS') and merged onto the Turnpike at 80+.

For the rest of the way I drove the car with purpose.

It was a completely difference experience. It's as if the BMW DNA came up to the surface and it again felt like a SPORTING sedan.

The steering had more weight, telegraphed more information, taking jugghandles and exits at high speed, much less body roll thanks to the wheels/tires/springs again, very composed.

So where does that leave us?

The F30 in any specification is not perfect. But I also feel no prior 3 series offered perfection.

Does it annoy me to have to press buttons or add the right footgear to feel the BMW'ness I expect? No, to me it's expected and the button gives me an option to fit my mood at the time. Can it turn off other people, absolutely. Not everyone wants to press buttons to get that feel and or need to buy anything after shelling out $37-60k on a 3 series.
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E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@13lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: ForgeStar F14 19's summer-OZ Superleggera 17's winter/Rogue Catback/Integral Audio/AFE intake scoop/BMS stage 1
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  #205  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:50 AM
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Saintor Saintor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Get the 6 if you want while you can. I have a feeling that won't be around for very much longer either. CAFE isn't just about MPG, but overall emissions also. I get your points between the two engines and agree with you about some of the N20's faults, but I think it is an amazing engine.
In what? It doesn't do much that a 6-cyl. won't do and you sacrifice a lot - too much for a BMW. Asian competitors gets more HP and costs less in fuel to run. Would they have direct injection and the ZF-8, it would make the N20 look even more like the joke it is. But hey that's just my so humble opinion.

BTW, emissions are *the same* for the N20 and N55. CAFE is just another way to spell TAX. Both the current 328i and 335i would have the same TAX in 2016; it should look something like 54$ x (35-26) ---> 486$ or 5-600$.
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Last edited by Saintor; 07-25-2013 at 06:52 AM.
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  #206  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:57 AM
The BMW-est The BMW-est is offline
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Excellent post, Jameson. I agree with you almost entirely. I too changed out the springs over a year ago and swapped the tires for PSS's, and it was the best thing I ever did for this car.

In Sport/Sport+ it is much more fun than my E90 was, while also allowing me to drive the horrible DC area roads with less concern for the spine-destroying explosions one often encounters in the last gen 3.

I actually do enjoy comfort mode so long as I have DSC disabled, which firms up the steering a bit while maintaining the smoothness that comfort mode brings during heavy traffic.

The E90 was better stock for stock, but the minor changes I've made to the F30 have made it vastly superior to my old car. I understand why people have a negative opinion after driving loaner F30s - I've hated all the ones I had too. My F30, on the other hand, really is brilliant and provides excellent feedback and handling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I have been a bit quiet lately by choice.

I am less and less interested in the repetition of these same discussions.

I also have been having fits where I am less than smitten with the F30.

But I will give you some insight into my day with the car yesterday.

I have been driving the Roadster a lot, the F30 has been sitting. I even took off the BMS tune and sold it to fund the engine rebuild of the E36/7, after all the F30 was just sitting.

So now the car is 100% stock with just wheels/tires and springs, the trilogy I do to any car-especially one with run-flats.

Now I keep getting compliments on how the F30 looks, it's the MSport pack, the color, and the wheels. Went to the Sands and the valet lit up, said aww man, MSport, right color, perfect wheels...this is a guy who parked Lambos and 911s seconds before. Also happened when I got gas the same day, guy raved about the looks.

It took me awhile to warm up, but I am officially on board with the looks of MY car. Do I get hot and bothered over the base ho hum car, nope. But mine, I keep doing the second look over my shoulder. Does that make me biased, a fanboi? No, I just like where my car is at in the looks department.

The driving...

This is where things get more complicated

I drove all the way to Maryland yesterday(215 miles each way) to acquire a model car collection.

I drove there in COMFORT mode, 75-80mph much of the way, averaging 70mph and 34.3mpg. It was compliant, comfortable and BORING. Some info gets transmitted to the steering wheel and there is more information coming from the suspension due to the wheels/tires/springs. But I feel like the BMW'ness is buried. I feel that feeling pulling the E36/7 out of the driveway.

Now on the way home, I was less worried about having enough gas, topped it off, put it in SPORT.

I left the gas station from a low roll and went WOT in 1st, banged off a smooth/quick 1-2 which set off the traction light(still happens even stock power and 275mm rear PSS') and merged onto the Turnpike at 80+.

For the rest of the way I drove the car with purpose.

It was a completely difference experience. It's as if the BMW DNA came up to the surface and it again felt like a SPORTING sedan.

The steering had more weight, telegraphed more information, taking jugghandles and exits at high speed, much less body roll thanks to the wheels/tires/springs again, very composed.

So where does that leave us?

The F30 in any specification is not perfect. But I also feel no prior 3 series offered perfection.

Does it annoy me to have to press buttons or add the right footgear to feel the BMW'ness I expect? No, to me it's expected and the button gives me an option to fit my mood at the time. Can it turn off other people, absolutely. Not everyone wants to press buttons to get that feel and or need to buy anything after shelling out $37-60k on a 3 series.
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  #207  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:14 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The BMW-est View Post
Excellent post, Jameson. I agree with you almost entirely. I too changed out the springs over a year ago and swapped the tires for PSS's, and it was the best thing I ever did for this car.

In Sport/Sport+ it is much more fun than my E90 was, while also allowing me to drive the horrible DC area roads with less concern for the spine-destroying explosions one often encounters in the last gen 3.

I actually do enjoy comfort mode so long as I have DSC disabled, which firms up the steering a bit while maintaining the smoothness that comfort mode brings during heavy traffic.

The E90 was better stock for stock, but the minor changes I've made to the F30 have made it vastly superior to my old car. I understand why people have a negative opinion after driving loaner F30s - I've hated all the ones I had too. My F30, on the other hand, really is brilliant and provides excellent feedback and handling.
Good to see another similar experience.

It seems when people like you and I say what we say, positive AND negative, the other side of the debate ignores our negatives, harps on the positive and just makes it out that we are justifying our purchase based bias.

It makes it very hard to have a well rounded dialog.
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E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@13lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: ForgeStar F14 19's summer-OZ Superleggera 17's winter/Rogue Catback/Integral Audio/AFE intake scoop/BMS stage 1
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  #208  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:25 AM
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minn19 minn19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Good to see another similar experience.

It seems when people like you and I say what we say, positive AND negative, the other side of the debate ignores our negatives, harps on the positive and just makes it out that we are justifying our purchase based bias.

It makes it very hard to have a well rounded dialog.
I couldn't agree more with this post.
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  #209  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:37 AM
Bratters123 Bratters123 is offline
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ZF 8AT is not BMW's, it is fitted to many makes of car.

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  #210  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:51 AM
The BMW-est The BMW-est is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I couldn't agree more with this post.
+2
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  #211  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:09 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The BMW-est View Post
Excellent post, Jameson. I agree with you almost entirely. I too changed out the springs over a year ago and swapped the tires for PSS's, and it was the best thing I ever did for this car.

In Sport/Sport+ it is much more fun than my E90 was, while also allowing me to drive the horrible DC area roads with less concern for the spine-destroying explosions one often encounters in the last gen 3.

I actually do enjoy comfort mode so long as I have DSC disabled, which firms up the steering a bit while maintaining the smoothness that comfort mode brings during heavy traffic.

The E90 was better stock for stock, but the minor changes I've made to the F30 have made it vastly superior to my old car. I understand why people have a negative opinion after driving loaner F30s - I've hated all the ones I had too. My F30, on the other hand, really is brilliant and provides excellent feedback and handling.
For most people stock for stock is the only valid comparison as most people do not mod their cars. This is particularly true for those who lease.

I agree that the E9x suspension was too harsh, By changing the tires and the dampers I was able to come up with a car that had a good balance between comfort and handling. BMW apparently realized that there were issues with the poorly sorted our E9x sport suspension and solved the harsh ride issue but in many people's opinions (based on what I read here) in the process they added excessive body roll which is something I personally would not be happy with.

My question would be if you still have to modify the car to get a 3 Series that both handles and rides well was this necessarily a step forward, It may gave been in a sense since there are probably more people who are turned off by an overly harsh suspension than an overly soft suspension but it sounds like BMW just can't get it right.

Although I am willing to mod a car if I feel it is necessary I would be more inclined to try to find one that the manufacturer got right in the first place.

Of course the DHP may be the solution to the issue but I have yet to drive an F30 that is equipped with it. I do have experience with the adjustable suspension on the 7 Series and I feel that it works extremely well.

As for what features are standard on the F30 that were optional on the E9x, that is insignificant to me as long as the features that I want are available since I will order the car the way I want it equipped.

CA


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Last edited by captainaudio; 07-25-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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  #212  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:58 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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While driving a loaner F30 yesterday, I was thinking it was not as much fun to drive as my 335is, nor was it as tight or spirited, but, I also didn't have to dodge rough road surfaces in order to protect my car or myself. It was a very pleasant ride that did what it was supposed to do as a commuter car. Very comfortable and roomy with enough get up and go to get the job done.

The F30 is a good compromise car that can handle a family of 4's needs. I think that I would go for one if it were just my wife and I when we had first started to get established before having kids. It would provide enough room for some luggage and be able to carry another couple of people when going out for dinner. It would later serve as a good family car when we had a couple of small children.

Unfortunately, the road surfaces are getting so bad in most areas that having a dedicated sports car or sporty car has become a pure luxury. The only time I use my sports car(s) is when I am taking a joy ride and have the time to map my route to avoid crappy roads.
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  #213  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:27 AM
The BMW-est The BMW-est is offline
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I definitely agree that BMW hasn't found the "Goldilocks" solution with suspension on the F generation. Like Beden said, having a pure sports car on the terrible roads in most of urban America today really is a pure luxury due to the overt suspension harshness. On the other hand, as you state, you do not need body roll in order to create a more liveable, everyday sport suspension set up.

The sport springs I installed eliminated 95% or more of the stock body roll and brought back most of the E90 road feel, while also being quite liveable on harsh roads. Why BMW didn't configure it more like this from the factory is anybody's guess. I suspect it is to push people towards the bespoke M Performance aftermarket alternatives, as many others have speculated. While I'm not pleased with that corporate decision, I am more than confident that the F30 chassis is a superb performer, though BMW felt compelled to put the stock setting on mute (even on the sport models).

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
For most people stock for stock is the only valid comparison as most people do not mod their cars. This is particularly true for those who lease.

I agree that the E9x suspension was too harsh, By changing the tires and the dampers I was able to come up with a car that had a good balance between comfort and handling. BMW apparently realized that there were issues with the poorly sorted our E9x sport suspension and solved the harsh ride issue but in many people's opinions (based on what I read here) in the process they added excessive body roll which is something I personally would not be happy with.

My question would be if you still have to modify the car to get a 3 Series that both handles and rides well was this necessarily a step forward, It may gave been in a sense since there are probably more people who are turned off by an overly harsh suspension than an overly soft suspension but it sounds like BMW just can't get it right.

Although I am willing to mod a car if I feel it is necessary I would be more inclined to try to find one that the manufacturer got right in the first place.

Of course the DHP may be the solution to the issue but I have yet to drive an F30 that is equipped with it. I do have experience with the adjustable suspension on the 7 Series and I feel that it works extremely well.

As for what features are standard on the F30 that were optional on the E9x, that is insignificant to me as long as the features that I want are available since I will order the car the way I want it equipped.

CA


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  #214  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:49 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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The others already pointed this out to you. But all I can say is just WOW.

I have heard everything under the book for why people buy BMW 3 series. But this is the first time I heard that 3 series is bought for country club access so your sons can have dates with daughters of wealthy men.........

Hey man when the reasons for buying 3 series are so objective their is nothing left to discuss.





Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
You have this completely backwards, and if you knew me you'd understand why:

To me, the F30 is a Toyota Camry. I can afford a car 5x as expensive if I wanted to keep up with my co-workers and neighbors. I buy 3 Series because it possesses the minimum amount of status necessary to maintain the membership at the country club and allow my sons to date wealthy daughters.

So the last thing I am concerned with is "validating" my purchase decision or winning some silly internet battle. All I'm concerned with, in terms of this discussion, is the truth, and as someone who has more seat time in E9X's and F30's than you do, I'm not going to sit here and be called out for lacking "objectivity".

The interior materials are the same, chief. If you look at the thousands of dollars of additional standard equipment BMW lavished on the F30 you'd see pretty quickly that saving fifty cents on some PVC would be the last thing on their minds. And, candidly, if the only valid complaint about the F30 is the feel of some plastic that we never touch then BMW succeeded beyond anyone's dreams with the new ride.

BJ
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  #215  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:09 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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Now, I am in agreement with you on some of the valid points you make below such as:

#1. The 4 cylinder is more powerful at the cost of refinement.

#2. The F30 interior uses hard plastic but has more modern design element and the switches are not on par. On the functionality part I do not find it any more functional then E90. Except for the more user friendly idrive.

#3. I also agree with you that F30 ride feels more comfy in ECO-PRO or Comfort settings. However, this same virtue makes it feel floaty and not as buttoned down in my opinion.


Anyways thanks for positive discussion without popping a nerve in your neck unlike some of these other F30 owners..






Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Here's where I stand on these points:

1) Yes the I6 is more refined in feel than the N20 turbo. But the N20 makes more power, is a great 4 cylinder and just plain feels faster. I don't find it at as all unrefined as some. It would have been great if BMW could have developed a normally aspirated I6 with the power and fuel economy of the N20 but CAFE standards made that unrealistic. I'm perfectly satisfied with the N20.

2) I've driven an E90 for the last 6 years (a 2008 and now a 2011) so I am very familiar with the interior quality. I have a few hours behind the wheel of an F30 so I have a feel for the interior of this car. The F30 plastic on the console, which everyone seems to point out is hard. It's not a big deal to me. The design of the two models are completely different due to the iDrive controller and the placement of the cup holders. It's far from a deal breaker. I find the quality of some of the switches in the F30 to be inferior to the E90. Not GM cheap but a step down. Again, the functions are perfect and this is not close to a deal breaker. The overall design and functionality of the F30 interior is far more modern and superior to the E90. It's really no contest.

And my last comment for now is the F30 goes down the road in a more refined manner. It's smoother, more in control and less hectic. That is what I mean by more refined.

Now if BMW would tighten up the steering and reduce body roll, it would be a nearly perfect car.
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  #216  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
For most people stock for stock is the only valid comparison as most people do not mod their cars. This is particularly true for those who lease.

I agree that the E9x suspension was too harsh, By changing the tires and the dampers I was able to come up with a car that had a good balance between comfort and handling. BMW apparently realized that there were issues with the poorly sorted our E9x sport suspension and solved the harsh ride issue but in many people's opinions (based on what I read here) in the process they added excessive body roll which is something I personally would not be happy with.

My question would be if you still have to modify the car to get a 3 Series that both handles and rides well was this necessarily a step forward, It may gave been in a sense since there are probably more people who are turned off by an overly harsh suspension than an overly soft suspension but it sounds like BMW just can't get it right.

Although I am willing to mod a car if I feel it is necessary I would be more inclined to try to find one that the manufacturer got right in the first place.

Of course the DHP may be the solution to the issue but I have yet to drive an F30 that is equipped with it. I do have experience with the adjustable suspension on the 7 Series and I feel that it works extremely well.

As for what features are standard on the F30 that were optional on the E9x, that is insignificant to me as long as the features that I want are available since I will order the car the way I want it equipped.

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I feel that the F30 Sportline is a fine handling car. It's not as hard edged as the E90 and the capabilities are high. It lacks some of the feel of the E90, mainly in the steering. It's more muted and lighter. The car rolls more in turns and transitions than even my base E90 with 17" tires but the ride is considerably better and more sophisticated. Driving near the limit seems more effortless in the F30.

For you, adding more roll stiffness may be the answer but I'm pretty confident that you will not need to make as many suspension mods as in your E90 Sport.

I have experience in a base F30 328xi and a RWD Sportline.I had the base version as a loaner for a day and I drove the Sportline courtesy of a local owner for about 45 minutes so my experience with that model is limited. They are very different cars and in my drive in the Sportline version, I kept it in Sport mode the entire time to firm up the steering. I was so impressed that I have started negotiations with my dealer for my next 3 series.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:11 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I feel that the F30 Sportline is a fine handling car. It's not as hard edged as the E90 and the capabilities are high. It lacks some of the feel of the E90, mainly in the steering. It's more muted and lighter. The car rolls more in turns and transitions than even my base E90 with 17" tires but the ride is considerably better and more sophisticated. Driving near the limit seems more effortless in the F30.

For you, adding more roll stiffness may be the answer but I'm pretty confident that you will not need to make as many suspension mods as in your E90 Sport.

I have experience in a base F30 328xi and a RWD Sportline.I had the base version as a loaner for a day and I drove the Sportline courtesy of a local owner for about 45 minutes so my experience with that model is limited. They are very different cars and in my drive in the Sportline version, I kept it in Sport mode the entire time to firm up the steering. I was so impressed that I have started negotiations with my dealer for my next 3 series.
This is a good post from the other forum in the TRACK/AUTOX section. The key is, the F30 did not FEEL as fast and was netting surprising results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMK007 View Post
So - I just got back from my first track event with my F30 328i. My set up was the bone stock sportline suspension, a stop tech BBK, and Nitto NT-01 245/40/18s; I ran the stock software. The event was through NASA Pro Racing at Gingerman Raceway in Michigan. I competed in TTD, which is a time trial event--the fastest lap around the track that day in your class.

Overall, I was quite pleased with the car's performance. Handling wise, turn in is very good for a stock suspension. The car definitely understeers when pushed hard at mid corner through corner exit. However, this can be minimized if you adjust your approach, which includes being more patient on throttle application. If you are too aggressive on the throttle, the back end squats, the front end raises and the car pushes badly. A properly tuned suspension (including camber plates) would really improve this. However, even in stock form, the car is very capable on track provided you are extra smooth with your inputs so as not to easily upset the car's balance. (Note: this illustrates why it is best to learn on a stock car, rather than a prepped one that masks driver errors.)

The engine was strong throughout the weekend. There was no significant drop in power toward the end of 20 minute sessions in hot humid weather. Unlike the e90 335i pitted next to me, there was also no limp mode! As everyone has attested before me, the F30 is really reliable on track. The car never seemed to struggle even when pushed very hard.

The transmission was smooth and deliberate. Braking was absolutely breathtaking with the stop tech 6 piston front, 4 piston rears. The electronic diff, on the other hand, was not terribly impressive. Particularly when going over any bumpy areas under hard acceleration, I could feel the LSD get upset and hesitate for a moment. In a timed event, this can be a killer. I was able to work around this by altering my line through a particularly rough area. A true LSD would really benefit this car. However, that does not mean you can't have a ball with the car in its current form.

Objectively speaking, the car probably performs better than you subjectively feel it is performing. Why do I say this? I competed last year in TTE with a Mark VI GTI at the same track with the same tires and stage 1 software that made that car pull like a freight train. Last year, I set the track record at Gingerman in TTE with the GTI in 1:54.03. When I finished the first session in the BMW in TTD, I pulled off track thinking I was probably a second slower than the GTI. In reality, I was over 2 seconds faster--which shocked the hell out of me. On the second day, I ran a 1:49.89; this is 1 second off track record set last year in TTD--and I am on a stock suspension. (Note: the FRS shattered the old track record this weekend by 2 seconds.) If I had coilovers and camber plates, which I can still run in this class, I am certain I could go 2 seconds faster. The point is the F30 is very, very capable--more capable than I even realized until I saw the times it is able to put done.
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  #218  
Old 07-27-2013, 11:32 AM
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minn19 minn19 is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
In what? It doesn't do much that a 6-cyl. won't do and you sacrifice a lot - too much for a BMW. Asian competitors gets more HP and costs less in fuel to run. Would they have direct injection and the ZF-8, it would make the N20 look even more like the joke it is. But hey that's just my so humble opinion.

BTW, emissions are *the same* for the N20 and N55. CAFE is just another way to spell TAX. Both the current 328i and 335i would have the same TAX in 2016; it should look something like 54$ x (35-26) ---> 486$ or 5-600$.
Not trying to start another N20 vs N55 war here, but your comment made me curious as to what the real numbers were. It is actually kind of hard to find, but I found a British website called www.nextgreencar.com. If I read it right it said the N20 put out 147 grams of CO2 per kilometer (g/km). Compared to the N55 putting out 169 g/km. My rough math puts that at 10-11% difference. Not an insignificant number when looking at the big picture of trying to lower emissions. I found another website, but forget which one it was that posted similar numbers.

I know you hate the N20 and am not trying to change your mind. Like I said was just curious and thought I'd post what I found.
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  #219  
Old 07-27-2013, 01:11 PM
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Just go to EPA.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.shtml
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  #220  
Old 07-27-2013, 01:30 PM
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minn19 minn19 is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
I did check that site. I didn't trust their numbers between the 328i and 335 autos. For manuals there is the 10ish% difference: 336 g/m of co2 to 385 g/m between the engines. It should be around the same for the auto transmission cars but there numbers are exactly the same. This should be impossible considering the N55 is roughly a 33% bigger engine. I think it is a typo and should reflect the same difference between what the manual transmission cars show and would be more in line with what other websites numbers are showing.

That being said, it is impressive that the N55 emissions are only greater by that 10ish% figure. I would have thought it would have been a greater disparity between the N20 and N55 considering the 33% bigger displacement of the N55.

Hope that makes sense. Kind of wordy.
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  #221  
Old 07-27-2013, 02:27 PM
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Or more in line with the original thread idea ( E90 328i vs F30 328i) the emissions favor the N20 even more. Using the same www.fueleconomy.gov website it shows the N52 put out 404 g/m of CO2 vs the 341g/m of the N20. That difference is even more CAFE emission standard friendly over the old engine.
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  #222  
Old 07-27-2013, 03:27 PM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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In before lock ...

Fellow E9x drivers, please ... focus your energies where they should be focused if you feel so strong about F3x chassis. Instead of busting the b@lls of the people who own F30 and trying to prove indemonstrable, why don't you fill up the section "How can we improve" on a survey you get from BMW after a service appointment? I always write "Please do stop using run flat tires". You can write the same and add whatever grief you have about F3x chassis.

Have issues with F3x? Write to BMWNA/BMW. Don't write and aggravate F30 owners, there's nothing they can do about it. However, above all, if you decide to switch teams and buy something else because F3x is not your cup of tea, please make sure that BMWNA knows about it. That's the ONLY way you can expect to get what you want with next Gxx 3 series.

Have issues with choices of specific options since lines were introduced? Write to BMWNA/BMW.

Have issues with choices since certain models produced in Europe are not imported here? You know, like F31 328d RWD MT, for example? DO NOT write to BMWNA/BMW, there's nothing they can do about it. Write to your Congressperson and make sure you fire them next November if nothing happens.

Stop barking up the wrong tree.

No, I don't defend F3x. Yes, I have very few compliments for F3x generation, but this is probably the wrong venue to voice them. So, pretty please, let's concentrate our efforts and voice our collective WTF to the correct addressee and let F30 people enjoy their cars. Thanks.
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Last edited by Mark K; 07-27-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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  #223  
Old 07-27-2013, 03:42 PM
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bighorns bighorns is online now
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I've found all of the discussion of E9X vs F30 fascinating, but the personal attacks, not so much. I'm not going to bust someones balls over their choice. For me, the comparisons are just food for thought on all of the pluses and minuses of each platform. I'm really hoping that the new 435 M-sport addresses many of the issues that people seem to have with the F30.
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  #224  
Old 07-27-2013, 04:55 PM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Originally Posted by bighorns View Post
For me, the comparisons are just food for thought on all of the pluses and minuses of each platform. I'm really hoping that the new 435 M-sport addresses many of the issues that people seem to have with the F30.
See, I don't even have a horse in this race. I don't care about F32 and would not care about E92 if it was still the current model (LCI of LCI) knowing what I know now. I'm looking forward to and test driving the F22 and, if it doesn't deliver, I will switch teams. But I do promise to make sure BMWNA and BMW know why that happened.

What I'm desperately trying to say is that making points of what you don't like about people's current ride to the people driving them is totally, utterly, completely USELESS. See, I would actually like to buy F32 but there is no way in hell that that is going to happen after the experience with E92. BMW made pretty clear that 3 series buyers should look for what they want in 1 or 2 series. Too bad for that. It's their company, their money and their livelihood - I have no horse in THAT race.

Thank God that in the last 3-5 years so many competitors got SO CLOSE to what 3 series BMW used to be as Jungian archetype to majority of the people that we really do not need 3 series BMW anymore. At least for those of us who are not afraid to call "doggie made a poo" with proper name of "dogsh|t", that is. Cheers.

EDIT: after reading it on the Web page, I just wanted to say that "dogsh|t" has NOTHING to do with my opinion about current F30 3 series, but just with calling things their REAL name no matter how ugly they sound to the marketing and sales ears. I go through the same process every day at my own job.
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Last edited by Mark K; 07-27-2013 at 05:09 PM.
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  #225  
Old 07-27-2013, 11:12 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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What happened.......is that I am not telling you or anyone else what you drive is garbage and that you do not know based on your purchase what is refined etc.

Show me a statement by me where I told a poster that he owns garbage cars and he does not know what he is talking about. That is called personal attack.

You can talk about E60 or E9x or anything as cars without calling people out on their purchases.

This is two totally different things that I guess you are not comprehending. How many times did I say please do not take discussion of F30 as criticism of your purchase. I am merely talking about the merits of the cars and not attacking your purchase choice.

Please, pay attention.



Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Wow! What happened to cant we just get along and talk civilly to each other. In the other thread you are crying about being personally attacked and you post this . You are not defending your previous purchasing decisions unreasonably now are you .
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