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E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 07-06-2013, 09:38 PM
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S52, now with more snail

edit: TEASER! Full build thread here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...3#post26769243


So I'm doing what everybody says you shouldn't... going into an FI build poor. But it wouldn't be as exciting if I had money.

I did a compression test today, and I am astounded by the numbers. 200k miles, revved to 7k often, burning oil, overheated once or twive... And it still somehow is healthy. Here are the numbers (+- 5 psi)

195
195
195
190
200
200



I purchased a supercharger kit from a local guy for $1500 plus an LSD (diff, not the drug). Here's what it contains:

Vortech V2 with ESS bracket (no shaft play whatsoever)
VF Engineering intake and charge piping
3.5" MAF
30lb injectors (gonna be too small for my power goal)
VF Engineering bypass valve
6.5" crank pulley and 3.25" supercharger pulley (should be good for ~14psi)
China-brand same-side intercooler (gonna go with an air-to-water setup instead)
All necessary oil lines, hoses, etc


Basically all it NEEDS is a belt. But I'm going to be going for a stage 2 type setup which will include the following:

air-to-water intercooler setup
water/meth injection
ARP head studs

These should allow me to run a high charge pressure without risk of blowing the head gasket.


Onto the pictures...

[IMG][/IMG]









That's it for now. Planning on swapping everything over to the new shell and putting the kit together at the same time.
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Last edited by cj.surr; 08-25-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2013, 09:41 PM
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ZeGerman ZeGerman is online now
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AWESOME! I'm really looking forward to watching this unfold.
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2013, 09:47 PM
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Shigeta Shigeta is offline
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Will you be painting the shell as well?
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2013, 09:55 PM
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Re: S52, now with more snail

Oooooooh me likey!

Let me give you this advice now: forced induction is ADDICTING. Build the car to handle double your current power goals, because it's like crack........you keeping needing a little more, a little more, and what used to be amazing is no longer satisfying.

SO.......my thought would be to get the block deck and head machined and run a metal HG a little thicker than factory spec to reduce compression. It wouldn't hurt to run ARP rod bolts and some better rod bearings as well.

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  #5  
Old 07-06-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj.surr View Post
I purchased a supercharger kit from a local guy for $1500 plus an LSD (diff, not the drug).
This just gave me a great idea on how to sell car parts.
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  #6  
Old 07-06-2013, 10:02 PM
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Re: S52, now with more snail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shigeta View Post
Will you be painting the shell as well?
Not any time soon. Probably next summer. The paint is already nicer than what's on my current car, so it isn't really an issue. I chose power over paint this year.






Quote:
Originally Posted by E36 Phantom View Post
Oooooooh me likey!

Let me give you this advice now: forced induction is ADDICTING. Build the car to handle double your current power goals, because it's like crack........you keeping needing a little more, a little more, and what used to be amazing is no longer satisfying.

SO.......my thought would be to get the block deck and head machined and run a metal HG a little thicker than factory spec to reduce compression. It wouldn't hurt to run ARP rod bolts and some better rod bearings as well.

C:\>Sent from my 386 using MS-DOS__
I'm keeping the engine together for now in fear of depleting my budget. I can install arp head studs without removing the head. I'm just afraid that head gasket leads to head work, leads to bearings, which leads to rods, etc. It would get outta hand quick. I'm gonna have a setup that'll be hard on stock internals, but they should hold up fine. Once the FI addiction sets in hard, I'll probably build the engine.


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  #7  
Old 07-07-2013, 06:09 AM
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Re: S52, now with more snail

Yea man!


The thing with the addiction is, you'll be maxed out on that supercharger, so you don't have to worry about going for more power unless you go turbo.

What meth injection are you getting? I would probably skip that unless you get an aquamist kit, nothing else compares.

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  #8  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:52 AM
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I'm planning on getting an AEM kit (half the price of aquamist), unless I find an aquamist kit used for cheap. Here's why:

The aquamist kit is best because it measures the flow of the fuel injectors and matches up meth injection to that flow. However, it doesn't seem that this function is necessary for a supercharger. The AEM kit increases water injection with boost pressure. Because boost pressure rises linearly with RPM on a supercharger, meth injection also rises linearly with RPM. Not the same story for a turbo, since it'll hold max PSI for a few thousand RPM. Also, I'll also be getting the engine tuned after installing the meth kit. That'll ensure that it is keeping a good flow.
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  #9  
Old 07-07-2013, 08:47 AM
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I really wanted to get my car a meth kit for her 21st (build date 12/92) but I don't really see that happening.

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  #10  
Old 07-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj.surr View Post
So I'm doing what everybody says you shouldn't... going into an FI build poor. But it wouldn't be as exciting if I had money.

I did a compression test today, and I am astounded by the numbers. 200k miles, revved to 7k often, burning oil, overheated once or twive... And it still somehow is healthy. Here are the numbers (+- 5 psi)

195
195
195
190
200
200


Since your compression is good, there's two possibilities for the oil consumption, gunk deposited in the oil ring groove keeping it from doing its job, or valve stem seals (or a combo of both). For the stuck oil ring you can try a couple ozs. of Sea Foam or Marvel Mystery Oil directly into the cylinders through the spark plug holes and let it sit over night. Sometimes this will soften up the gunk enough that it will work it's way out and your oil consumption will drop off dramatically. If you've got worn valve stem seals you might need to address that as part of your SC build. If they're the source of your oil consumption it's being sucked in around the intake valves because that area isn't sealed well. When you go to a boosted system you're going to lose some boost into the crank case around those same worn intake valve stems.......
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  #11  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles_trail View Post
I really wanted to get my car a meth kit for her 21st (build date 12/92) but I don't really see that happening.

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Meth isn't really worth it unless you're boosted, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
Since your compression is good, there's two possibilities for the oil consumption, gunk deposited in the oil ring groove keeping it from doing its job, or valve stem seals (or a combo of both). For the stuck oil ring you can try a couple ozs. of Sea Foam or Marvel Mystery Oil directly into the cylinders through the spark plug holes and let it sit over night. Sometimes this will soften up the gunk enough that it will work it's way out and your oil consumption will drop off dramatically. If you've got worn valve stem seals you might need to address that as part of your SC build. If they're the source of your oil consumption it's being sucked in around the intake valves because that area isn't sealed well. When you go to a boosted system you're going to lose some boost into the crank case around those same worn intake valve stems.......
I see... Is there any easy way to check the valve stem seals? I was hoping to keep the head on the engine.
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:28 AM
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There's no direct test that I'm aware of, but on a lot of engines you can replace the seals without pulling the head. I suspect if you can pull the cams with the head on the engine you can do the valve stem seals.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:49 PM
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Woohooo, so what was your rough running issue?

Glad you will be boosted buddy its a long road but I hope it leads to some fun.
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cj.surr View Post
Is there any easy way to check the valve stem seals? I was hoping to keep the head on the engine.
If it smokes on start-up, and smokes with a trailing throttle (foot off the gas without disengaging the drive train), it's the valve stem seals. The 633 has completely shot seals. I've started joking with people when I go to start it up that they'll get a bill from me for fogging the mosquitoes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
There's no direct test that I'm aware of, but on a lot of engines you can replace the seals without pulling the head. I suspect if you can pull the cams with the head on the engine you can do the valve stem seals.
May be possible, but the one big challenge will be keeping the valves all the way up and seated while the springs and retainers are off. Some people do it with air pressure through the spark plug hole, but if a valve drops down the cylinder, you'll have to pull the head. I'd think it would be a lot safer and over all easier to just pull the head and get everything done (valves ground, head checked, seals replaced, and put the ARP studs in).
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2013, 01:00 PM
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:16 PM
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If it smokes on start-up, and smokes with a trailing throttle (foot off the gas without disengaging the drive train), it's the valve stem seals. The 633 has completely shot seals. I've started joking with people when I go to start it up that they'll get a bill from me for fogging the mosquitoes.



May be possible, but the one big challenge will be keeping the valves all the way up and seated while the springs and retainers are off. Some people do it with air pressure through the spark plug hole, but if a valve drops down the cylinder, you'll have to pull the head. I'd think it would be a lot safer and over all easier to just pull the head and get everything done (valves ground, head checked, seals replaced, and put the ARP studs in).
You do one cylinder at a time with the piston at TDC so if you do drop a valve it will only fall a little way and hope that with it sitting on the piston you can still grab it with a pair of pliers. Might have to get creative with a cleverly bent piece of clothes hanger wire through the spark plug hole to get under the head of the valve and push it back up far enough you can grab it if it falls below the top of the valve guide. So I've heard......

If you do it with the head on the risk point is when you're compressing the valve springs to get the keepers out or back in. If you're misaligned you push the valve down, lose the air seal, and it tries to drop down.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:25 PM
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these are a pain in the butt to do in chassis....

full line pressure from a large shop supply was fine to keep the valves in the 'closed' position, but the difficulty is the narrow design of the valve well.

in this case, a magnet and some chassis grease are your friends....as are the correct tools to get in there....

snap on sells a kit that i have used (sold mine....), but is well over the price of this unit.
http://www.ecrater.com/p/15925477/un...id=52211034499

similar in design, though. the best part of this tool is the ability for it to be installed once and used on both intake and exaust valves without a lot of difficulty.


still, excited to see this come together!!




df
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:46 PM
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Re: S52, now with more snail

Ok, you guys convinced me to not do the valve seals

I don't think it smokes that much at all. Oil burning seems to increase with the amount that I beat on it. For example, I burned at least .5 qt on the way down to bimmerfest (200mi), but I could make the 350mi trip to school without burning any.

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Old 07-07-2013, 07:03 PM
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Burning oil when beating on engines is fairly common.
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:09 PM
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It definitely still burns if I'm just DD'ing it too, though. It's probably the valve seals. It seems to be more of a time thing than a mileage thing. They aren't really at the point where I'm worried about it, though. I don't really understand why boost would make them any worse, anyway...

Also, a strange thing... I usually find some oil in my throttle body and beginning of intake manifold. But I have a catch can and the intake boot is pretty dry. It almost seems like it's coming up through the manifold, but that obviously doesn't seem possible...
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  #21  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:25 PM
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So I did a mocked up what THIS water-to-air intercooler would fit like using a cardboard box. Looks like it'll definitely fit with the relocation of the power steering reservoir. It'll go down even lower once I relocate the piping for the engine coolant tank. The box size includes the inlet/outlet.




Also I realized that the intake piping is not for my V2 charger... it won't fit. It's for a V3, I believe. One more thing to buy
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:38 PM
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But won't putting an intercooler in that location just cause it to get heat soaked? Seems like there won't be much cooling going on there.
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:58 PM
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It's a water-to-air setup.

The intercooler is cooled with water which is pumped to a small front-mounted radiator.

Info:

http://www.frozenboost.com/stpg.php?...d=water_to_air
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Last edited by cj.surr; 07-07-2013 at 10:00 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:02 PM
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Thats because its an after cooler

Water to air setup.

Cj your car is slowly but surely coming together

Coils

S52

Boost

Im happy for you bro
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  #25  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:03 PM
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Thanks Frank. I'm pretty excited myself
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