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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 07-15-2013, 02:27 PM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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Motortrend Comparison test... Again

Motortrend Comparison - BMW 335xi Wins

Motor Trend has done an extensive comparison of the midsize sedan premium segment and has put the BMW 335i xDrive up against the Audi S4, Cadillac ATS4 3.6, Lexus IS 350 AWD and Volvo S60 T6. Unlike the last time when the ATS was favored, this time the BMW comes out on top.

Motortrend Comparison Review


5th Place: Volvo S60
While safe and competent, the Volvo failed to get anyone's pulse racing. The competition remains extremely strong and a refresh is coming soon.

4th Place: Cadillac ATS
Without question, the best driving car here, but last or near last in every other category. Cadillac has a great starting point, but it needs to finish the job.

3rd Place: Lexus IS 350
A solid value and a welcome refresh. We would have loved to have see an F-Sport with AWD, and though we asked for it, Lexus didn't have one available. Also, the front of this car is too homely for it to place any higher.

2nd Place: Audi S4
Muscular, brutish, and confidence-inspiring, the S4 is let down by its age and a slightly underwhelming driving experience. Still, what an impressive athlete.

1st Place: BMW 335i xdrive
Featuring the best combination of everything, the latest 3 Series just doesn't have any glaring flaws. It's still the master of the segment it created.

Read the Full Comparison Here:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._sport_sedans/
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:59 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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In their last comparison the ATS came out on top.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...50_comparison/
It is without a question the best sport sedan in this class today.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:03 PM
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But this time BMW won!

Its amazing how much the Motor Trend testers learned in such a short time.

CA
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:14 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
But this time BMW won!

Its amazing how much the Motor Trend testers learned in such a short time.

CA
It won in where it matters least and lost where it matters most. Sure it is a the best overall car out of the bunch but lacks in the "sport" department.

"Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed. Said Lago."

The chassis in the ATS is untouchable and with the V6 TT in the works for the V as well as the 8 speed transmission on the way, it is game over. I also have no doubt the laggy CUE issues will eventually be worked out.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
It won in where it matters least and lost where it matters most. Sure it is a the best overall car out of the bunch but lacks in the "sport" department.

"Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed. Said Lago."

The chassis in the ATS is untouchable and with the V6 TT in the works for the V as well as the 8 speed transmission on the way, it is game over. I also have no doubt the laggy CUE issues will eventually be worked out.
I don't think that most of the people here who are disappointed in the direction that BMW has taken with the new 3 think it is a bad car but BMW has apparently gone in a direction that many long term loyalists are not happy with. The fact that it appeals to a wider customer base will not be a consolation to them.

It is like a favorite restaurant that changes its menu and stops serving the food you like. It may be perfectly good food and it may lead to a substantial increase in business but the bottom line is that you don't like the food anymore and other customers raving about how wonderful it is is probably not going to change your mind.

The solution to this dilemma would be to go to a different restaurant or buy a different kind of car. In both cases there will be a number of regular customers who will conclude that that things they don't like as well as the previous model (or menu) are not significant enought to make them change.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 07-15-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:11 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I don't think that most of the people here who are disappointed in the direction that BMW has taken with the new 3 think it is a bad car but BMW has apparently gone in a direction that many long term loyalists are not happy with. The fact that it appeals to a wider customer base will not be a consolation to them.

It is like a favorite restaurant that changes its menu and stops serving the food you like. It may be perfectly good food and it may lead to a substantial increase in business but the bottom line is that you don't like the food anymore and other customers raving about how wonderful it is is probably not going to change your mind.

The solution to this dilemma would be to go to a different restaurant or buy a different kind of car. In both cases there will be a number of regular customers who will conclude that that things they don't like as well as the previous model (or menu) are not significant enought to make them change.

CA
It is more like a favorite burger joint that stopped serving beef.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
It is more like a favorite burger joint that stopped serving beef.
So, you're saying to BMW, "Where's the beef?"
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:22 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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I had the over / under in my head at 4 posts before either "legends never die" or "Saintor" posted something on this thread. In reference to your last post.... if your favorite restaurant stopped service beef, there is nothing stopping you from buying it somewhere else. Standing out front with signs and pitchforks probably wont make them serve beef again if they had decided to go in another direction. Neither will internet forums. Pretty much the ONLY thing that will make them realize the direction is wrong (if it is indeed wrong) is to take your money somewhere else. If enough people do that, a company will change. Absent that, sales of product normally = customer acceptance.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:44 PM
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But this time BMW won!

Its amazing how much the Motor Trend testers learned in such a short time.

CA
That's because they were tricked into thinking Cadi was a re-badged BMW.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I don't think that most of the people here who are disappointed in the direction that BMW has taken with the new 3 think it is a bad car but BMW has apparently gone in a direction that many long term loyalists are not happy with. The fact that it appeals to a wider customer base will not be a consolation to them.

It is like a favorite restaurant that changes its menu and stops serving the food you like. It may be perfectly good food and it may lead to a substantial increase in business but the bottom line is that you don't like the food anymore and other customers raving about how wonderful it is is probably not going to change your mind.

The solution to this dilemma would be to go to a different restaurant or buy a different kind of car. In both cases there will be a number of regular customers who will conclude that that things they don't like as well as the previous model (or menu) are not significant enought to make them change.
BMW may have felt they had no choice but to expand their customer base or else risk becoming irrelevant. Their business model may not have been sustainable over the long term selling vehicles to just the enthusiast market.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:32 PM
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BMW may have felt they had no choice but to expand their customer base or else risk becoming irrelevant. Their business model may not have been sustainable over the long term selling vehicles to just the enthusiast market.
BMW has been becoming more and more of a mainstream auto maker for a number of years.

CA
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:59 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
I had the over / under in my head at 4 posts before either "legends never die" or "Saintor" posted something on this thread. In reference to your last post.... if your favorite restaurant stopped service beef, there is nothing stopping you from buying it somewhere else. Standing out front with signs and pitchforks probably wont make them serve beef again if they had decided to go in another direction. Neither will internet forums. Pretty much the ONLY thing that will make them realize the direction is wrong (if it is indeed wrong) is to take your money somewhere else. If enough people do that, a company will change. Absent that, sales of product normally = customer acceptance.
I happen to also like other brands and I will give credit where credit is due. In this case the ATS deserves the most. This is an enthusiasts forum and the ATS was the best driver's car out of the bunch.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:03 PM
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legends is butt hurt lmao
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:06 PM
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I thought that the 1 series is the new 3?
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:18 PM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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I thought that the 1 series is the new 3?
It would be nice if they followed Audi, who made their A3 a sedan, and made a 1 series sedan and brought it to the states.

If you want a small sport sedan from BMW, you're out of luck, since the F30 has grown wider by 2 inches and longer by 6 inches compared to the E46.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:03 PM
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BMW may have felt they had no choice but to expand their customer base or else risk becoming irrelevant. Their business model may not have been sustainable over the long term selling vehicles to just the enthusiast market.


Indeed...but why not maintain/improve upon the enthusiast's product while also adding a product for the mainstream...rather than seemingly kicking the enthusiasts to the curb?
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:21 PM
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Motortrend Comparison test... Again

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Indeed...but why not maintain/improve upon the enthusiast's product while also adding a product for the mainstream...rather than seemingly kicking the enthusiasts to the curb?
Enthusiasts are great for brand awareness, but are always very vocal, and usually very picky. In this case, they probably are not nearly profitable enough for their vocal nature.

I am obviously speculating, but its probably much more profitable to "go mainstream". Hopefully they can find a middle ground


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Old 07-15-2013, 09:26 PM
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Indeed...but why not maintain/improve upon the enthusiast's product while also adding a product for the mainstream...rather than seemingly kicking the enthusiasts to the curb?
Good question.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:38 PM
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Another interesting review. Although I still don't understand how they came up with the ranking, but a win is a win.

It's a shame that BMW is no longer the undisputed champ in handling and driver involvement though. While we can claim that the 1er is the 3er, we are comparing cars in the same segment, and BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan has become just a marketing tool.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:49 AM
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It is more like a favorite burger joint that stopped serving beef.
IMO, I think that it is not that they stopped serving beef, it is that they started serving undercooked beef.

The common denominator that so far has been reported by all magazines comparos about the F30 is that the ride and handling have been changed, soften, diminished, whatever. But what is really interesting to me is that the BMW Sports Suspension (704) is the one that they are complaining about.

I would have expected complaints about the base suspension, especially now that it is the standard suspension even on the upcoming 4-Series. But I do not understand why messing with the 704 when it is an optional suspension. Why BMW cannot please both type of customers?

Or is it that they found out that they are the same customer but looking for better seats only?
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I don't think that most of the people here who are disappointed in the direction that BMW has taken with the new 3 think it is a bad car but BMW has apparently gone in a direction that many long term loyalists are not happy with. The fact that it appeals to a wider customer base will not be a consolation to them.

It is like a favorite restaurant that changes its menu and stops serving the food you like. It may be perfectly good food and it may lead to a substantial increase in business but the bottom line is that you don't like the food anymore and other customers raving about how wonderful it is is probably not going to change your mind.

The solution to this dilemma would be to go to a different restaurant or buy a different kind of car. In both cases there will be a number of regular customers who will conclude that that things they don't like as well as the previous model (or menu) are not significant enought to make them change.

CA
Well said.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:44 AM
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at least people are finally giving up on making excuses for CUE.

i sat in an ATS 3.6 before i got my BMW (i'm 99% sure i would never have bought it to begin with, but had to check it out .... dealer experience was god awful btw).

and CUE is a horrible horrible system. it is so awful if i had an ATS i'd just want a big ass hole in my center console for a double din after market anything unit because all of them would be better than CUE
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:55 AM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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A few observations...

CUE sucks, but so did iDrive when it came out.

Every review I've read about the F30, including the Automobile All Stars issue says if you want a 3 series, you have to get the Sport or M Sport Line, otherwise you are just getting a soft, luxury (dare I say Buick-like) ride. And to make it better, get the DHP on top of that.

BMW isn't the only brand pissing off enthusiasts. I think every brand does that. Enthusiasts are notoriously hard to please, and generally despise change. VW is moving away from sporty hot-hatches and quirky German cars to more mainstream volume sellers. Dare I say bland cars. Ford and Chevy update the Mustang and Corvette and old-schoolers balk. What's going to happen when Ford bolts an independent suspension on the back of the Mustang!? And so on with other brands;l Toyota, Honda, Audi, etc.

BMW wants volume. They are getting it by catering to the masses, which is exactly the kind of cars we enthusiasts DON'T want. The masses spend a lot more money and buy a lot more cars than we do. We lose.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:30 AM
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Enthusiast line of reasoning:

- If you change your engine/suspension/transmission style, you are throwing away the brand
- if you don't keep acceleration,power, and handling numbers along with the competition, you are losing the brand
- If you add lots of features that add weight, you are losing your sporting touch
- If you lack alot of features compared to the competition, you are asking me to go check out the competition
- No enthusiast sees any conflict with the above lines

Luckily, enthusiasts are not good business people and thus BMW has done well for itself.

From my perspective BMW is moving to a business model that serves the masses best with alot of options for the enthusiast to add-on.

We'll also see how they do the new m3. In the e90 series, the most sporting models were the e92 335i or 335is and moderately optioned models were running $55-60k. Maybe BMW is simply thinking that they can get those buyers to move into the m3 at ~$60-65k?
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:52 AM
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I think another thing that BMW is doing is getting a little more separation between their sedans and their coupes. They mention specifically in their release on the new 4 series that it has a more rigid frame and better handling. Maybe they are trying to push some people from sedans up a few thousand dollars to the coupes.
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