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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 07-16-2013, 07:05 AM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdkind62 View Post
I think another thing that BMW is doing is getting a little more separation between their sedans and their coupes. They mention specifically in their release on the new 4 series that it has a more rigid frame and better handling. Maybe they are trying to push some people from sedans up a few thousand dollars to the coupes.
That is definitely in line with their movement to eradicating the MT on the xDrive 428 and 328 and forcing you up to the 435 and 335.

I don't trust the BMW rep though, I'll wait for real world third party reviews on if the 4 series is actually stiffer and raw with handling like the outgoing E92.
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:13 AM
samualcc samualcc is offline
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Anyone else notice that the BMW seems to have been equipped with the Power Pack/BMW tune? I didn't see mention to it in the article but looking at the listed HP and Torque, it appears that this 335 had a bunch of extras on it beyond a brake kit.
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  #28  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
BMW has been becoming more and more of a mainstream auto maker for a number of years.
I agree. The question is: Why are they moving more mainstream? As I stated in my post it's my opinion they had no choice. It may be the enthusiast market is too small to sustain BMW over the long term.

Last edited by sunny5280; 07-16-2013 at 08:23 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:21 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Indeed...but why not maintain/improve upon the enthusiast's product while also adding a product for the mainstream...rather than seemingly kicking the enthusiasts to the curb?
It's my understanding sales of the 3-series comprise the bulk of BMW sales. Thus making the 3-series the mainstream. Perhaps BMW's thought is if you're an enthusiast you should look into the M series.
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  #30  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:38 AM
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It may be just more practical for all car manufacturers to design and produce cars that can handle the poor road conditions that continue to deteriorate throughout the world. I've noticed my PA area roads getting worse and worse each year with little light at the end of the tunnnel for much improvement.

Our utilities have been replacing old sewer and water lines throughout my region for the past several years. They tear up the right half of the road and then patch it, leaving an uneven and rough surface. The utilities are supposed to pay 1/3rd toward road resurfacing, but the state and township don't have the budget to come up with the remaining 2/3rds. Now, at least half of our roads have lousy driving surfaces.

The same was true, and even much worse, when my wife and I recently visited Syracuse, NY. I had planned to take my Porsche for a road trip to the area but thanked my lucky stars that I didn't. My wife's 535xi didn't fare well on those crappy roads either, so we ended up leaving her car parked and using my mother-in-laws' Lincoln.

Unfortunately, the way it's going, it's the SUVs and slushy sedans that will be the only ones that can survive the NE roads and many other regions of the US.
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  #31  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:43 AM
Al Bundy Al Bundy is online now
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
It's my understanding sales of the 3-series comprise the bulk of BMW sales. Thus making the 3-series the mainstream. Perhaps BMW's thought is if you're an enthusiast you should look into the M series.


Fair point...though I think you'll price a lot of enthusiasts out of the market if that's the strategy. But as mentioned earlier, BMW doesn't really need the enthusiast market, so I guess they have little reason to care.
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  #32  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
It's my understanding sales of the 3-series comprise the bulk of BMW sales. Thus making the 3-series the mainstream. Perhaps BMW's thought is if you're an enthusiast you should look into the M series.
Or have to buy a whole lot of (expensive) M performance parts to make the car 'sporty'.
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  #33  
Old 07-16-2013, 09:44 AM
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What amazes me, review after review, is that nobody ever mentions DHP. I've seen reviews of BMW's with and without DHP, and in both cases, the reviewers don't say a word about it, as if they never tried it or even know what it does.

On here everybody and their dog knows that you practically need DHP on an X-drive. Meanwhile these reviewers, who supposedly know a lot more about cars than we do, never mention it. They just say that the X-drive rides soft, and that seems to be the main problem they have with it. Well no ****. Why don't they request a car with DHP and actually use it, and then write about that?

It's kind of silly that BMW requires you to get a specific option for certain models just to have a "BMW-feeling car", but that's just the reality. I'm very surprised that all the car mags don't seem to know this basic info though....or if they do, never say a word about it.
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  #34  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
Fair point...though I think you'll price a lot of enthusiasts out of the market if that's the strategy. But as mentioned earlier, BMW doesn't really need the enthusiast market, so I guess they have little reason to care.
And herein lies to problem. If BMW were to focus on the enthusiast base would there be sufficient sales volume to keep the price affordable for the enthusiast? If non-enthusiasts were to jump ship to the competition BMW might be forced to increase prices to compensate thus pricing out the very buyers of their focus.
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  #35  
Old 07-16-2013, 12:43 PM
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Geez, imagine the posts if the BMW didn't finish 1st in the comparison.
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  #36  
Old 07-16-2013, 05:05 PM
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I think out of everything out there the 335xi is still the best thing currently being offered in its class... Crazy fast, handles well, perfect interior, great options. That being said I am constantly dissappointed by the steering and soft bouncy suspension (non DHP here).

BEDEN1 the roads out west are just as bad. My daily drive involves a freeway that literally has speedbumps in the form of bridge to road joints, and some sinkhole kind of dips that drop the car almost 6 inches, all these are unmarked witha speed of 65mph so if you hit these unknowingly your screwed.

If they want to cater to the mainstream fine, but what would be ideal is if they were able to fix the noticeably bad steering with a sport steering option, and fix the noticeably soft/bouncy damping on the suspension with something above and beyond the DHP currently offered. Maybe call this theoretical fixed package for the enthusiest the 'Sport Line' version . If I had to do it all over again I think I would go with a base M3 as its only about $150 more a month and solves all problems listed here.

Last edited by t335xi; 07-16-2013 at 05:10 PM.
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  #37  
Old 07-17-2013, 03:28 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by t335xi View Post
I think out of everything out there the 335xi is still the best thing currently being offered in its class... Crazy fast, handles well, perfect interior, great options. That being said I am constantly dissappointed by the steering and soft bouncy suspension (non DHP here).

BEDEN1 the roads out west are just as bad. My daily drive involves a freeway that literally has speedbumps in the form of bridge to road joints, and some sinkhole kind of dips that drop the car almost 6 inches, all these are unmarked witha speed of 65mph so if you hit these unknowingly your screwed.

If they want to cater to the mainstream fine, but what would be ideal is if they were able to fix the noticeably bad steering with a sport steering option, and fix the noticeably soft/bouncy damping on the suspension with something above and beyond the DHP currently offered. Maybe call this theoretical fixed package for the enthusiest the 'Sport Line' version . If I had to do it all over again I think I would go with a base M3 as its only about $150 more a month and solves all problems listed here.
I think the S4 takes the cake when it comes to AWD sedans but it does cost more. While it rides on an old platform it still comes up on top even against the newest competitors
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...volvo-s60.html
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  #38  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:00 PM
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I think the S4 takes the cake when it comes to AWD sedans but it does cost more. While it rides on an old platform it still comes up on top even against the newest competitors
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...volvo-s60.html
It may not cost more depending how you configure it.

There are also things that you just can't get with the 335i xDrive (e.g. DCT, LSD, Nappa Leather/Alcantara, etc.), and the S4 has more standard features in exchange for a higher starting price.

The price delta between the two is not much, and I don't think too many will be choosing one over the other primarily based on the MSRP.
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  #39  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:49 PM
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True but the s4 get 16/20 mpg which is pathetic in 2013
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  #40  
Old 07-17-2013, 05:31 PM
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True but the s4 get 16/20 mpg which is pathetic in 2013
Not accurate. It's 18/28 MPG (compared to 20/30 for 335i xDrive). If 2 MPG is going to be a major factor in your purchase decision, you are looking at the wrong class of cars.

To be clear, I am not advocating that the S4 is a better car. In fact the S4 understeers like a pig and the steering feedback isn't much better, but LSD and DCT make it an attractive alternative when cross-shopping.
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  #41  
Old 07-17-2013, 05:57 PM
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17/26 2013 s4 from their website, 23/28 335x again from their site. Big enough difference for me on my dd.
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  #42  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:16 PM
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Not accurate. It's 18/28 MPG (compared to 20/30 for 335i xDrive). If 2 MPG is going to be a major factor in your purchase decision, you are looking at the wrong class of cars.

To be clear, I am not advocating that the S4 is a better car. In fact the S4 understeers like a pig and the steering feedback isn't much better, but LSD and DCT make it an attractive alternative when cross-shopping.
I'm not sure what options the S4 had that you drove, but your description does not match up with our S4. In Dynamic mode, the S4 has very responsive steering, tight and accurate in fact, and understeer is about the same as my 335is.
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  #43  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:17 PM
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17/26 2013 s4 from their website, 23/28 335x again from their site. Big enough difference for me on my dd.
Only if you want to trust manufacturers' numbers.

As flawed as the EPA rating is, it's the only apples-to-apples comparison, which rates 18/28 vs. 20/30.

The MT measured rating is 17.0 vs. 19.2, which is still roughly 2 MPG difference.

If 2 MPG swayed you to buy the BMW, congrats for saving a few bucks.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:25 PM
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I'm not sure what options the S4 had that you drove, but your description does not match up with our S4. In Dynamic mode, the S4 has very responsive steering, tight and accurate in fact, and understeer is about the same as my 335is.
I don't think we are contradicting.

If you re-read my statement, I didn't say it was NOT responsive. I mentioned it rather lacks feedback. Maybe my reference point is off, but the heavy front was noticeably apparent. I did like the manual transmission, which was crispier to shift, but the clutch was a tad too light for my taste.

I can't compare against the 335is since I never sampled it myself, but I can't imagine it being as nose heavy as the S4.
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  #45  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:41 PM
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It would be nice if they followed Audi, who made their A3 a sedan, and made a 1 series sedan and brought it to the states.

If you want a small sport sedan from BMW, you're out of luck, since the F30 has grown wider by 2 inches and longer by 6 inches compared to the E46.
I am a new F30 owner coming from a B8 S4 and size was one of the reasons I liked the new 3. I felt it was a lateral move for me in terms of comfort which has become more important to me. I chose the 335i because of the way it looks and the way it sounds. I also wanted RWD after nearly 10 years of Quattro. My S4 was starting to look like every newer A4. Performance wise the S4 wins but not becasue of more power but becasue of the sport diff. Here is a pic of it on its last day. I knew what I was giving up and what I was getting. With 600 miles on the odo and two mods deep (tint and M gloss grills) I love it. Next mod is an amp. A lack of due diligence on my part before getting my car but I hear a JL XD800/8 will do the trick.
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  #46  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:57 PM
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I don't think we are contradicting.

If you re-read my statement, I didn't say it was NOT responsive. I mentioned it rather lacks feedback. Maybe my reference point is off, but the heavy front was noticeably apparent. I did like the manual transmission, which was crispier to shift, but the clutch was a tad too light for my taste.

I can't compare against the 335is since I never sampled it myself, but I can't imagine it being as nose heavy as the S4.
The RS5 is nose heavy too. I did a review. All the magic trick diffs can't make up for the weight this thing has to haul.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=709161
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  #47  
Old 07-17-2013, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I don't think we are contradicting.

If you re-read my statement, I didn't say it was NOT responsive. I mentioned it rather lacks feedback. Maybe my reference point is off, but the heavy front was noticeably apparent. I did like the manual transmission, which was crispier to shift, but the clutch was a tad too light for my taste.

I can't compare against the 335is since I never sampled it myself, but I can't imagine it being as nose heavy as the S4.
Try driving an S4 with PDK and sport differential. I think you'll find it a world of difference.
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  #48  
Old 07-17-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BoostedWhip View Post
I am a new F30 owner coming from a B8 S4 and size was one of the reasons I liked the new 3. I felt it was a lateral move for me in terms of comfort which has become more important to me. I chose the 335i because of the way it looks and the way it sounds. I also wanted RWD after nearly 10 years of Quattro. My S4 was starting to look like every newer A4. Performance wise the S4 wins but not becasue of more power but becasue of the sport diff. Here is a pic of it on its last day. I knew what I was giving up and what I was getting. With 600 miles on the odo and two mods deep (tint and M gloss grills) I love it. Next mod is an amp. A lack of due diligence on my part before getting my car but I hear a JL XD800/8 will do the trick.
Ouch! Sorry for your loss.
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  #49  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:07 PM
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Aww poor s4... I test drove one with all the options but their financing wasn't competitive and it had a few dash squeeks and rattles on the test drive.. also a ton of torque steer. Faster isn't always the winning point..

Enigma most consumers go off the manufacturers fuel tags as a point of comparison. If anything mpg is worse... But I'm sure many forums have other threads dealing with fuel economy. If they are way off someone should have the cars retested like the 335 was.
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  #50  
Old 07-19-2013, 12:05 AM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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Here is my opinion after reading this article.

My disappointment with F30 continues. It is the most expensive car in this group with all the optional performance stuff you can nearly pile on. Yet it barely hangs with an older S4 in straight line and despite having $3K M performance brake kit does not match S4 in braking.......ouch that is tough.

I was most looking forward to reading about F30's handling and steering feel/feed back. In those regards this is what the article had to say.

"Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed. Said Lago, "I don't like the steering." What's wrong with it? Like the S4s, it's detached. "Steering actually has some feel. Not a lot, but some," he continued. Adding all that AWD hardware sure didn't help the 335ix out. Kong noted that the BMW "feels ready to oversteer." Its ride was the softest of the group.



I am not so sure if I should laugh or cry after reading this comparison test.

I think it is a sad day in BMW history when a BMW wins comparisons based on Curb appeal rather then driving dynamics.

This is what happens when BMW design car based on their new Slogan of Efficient Dynamics. Please, return us to the days when slogan was Driving Dynamics.

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-19-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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