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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #51  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
It is too bad that BMW NA intended to kill the passive M sport suspension and just force US customers to spend $6,500 for a semi-proper, artificial sport suspension on a M Sport F10. Meanwhile in Europe you get the sport suspension for free. Slapping an M label on anything and everything, including the M Sport aesthetic only Package is M brand dilution and is silly. Focus group decision making by BMW NA is not a good thing and is contrary to decision making by BMW in Germany.
Just for the records: in another thread I said that selecting the 704 suspension (instead of the standard one) doesn't change the total M-sport package price here. However, when you configure it through 'Options' rather than 'Packages' (like e.g. when you want the Modern Line with the 704 suspension), it *is* a cost option - but then again, the price is fairly low (some $700). So, I think the only different parts are actually the stiffer/shorter springs; swapping the springs should be fairly easy, cheap and safe for BMW NA in the existing 'affected' vehicles...
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  #52  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:12 AM
tiberivs tiberivs is offline
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***What is BMW doing about the July/August LCI missing the 704 Msport Suspensio

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Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Just for the records: in another thread I said that selecting the 704 suspension (instead of the standard one) doesn't change the total M-sport package price here. However, when you configure it through 'Options' rather than 'Packages' (like e.g. when you want the Modern Line with the 704 suspension), it *is* a cost option - but then again, the price is fairly low (some $700). So, I think the only different parts are actually the stiffer/shorter springs; swapping the springs should be fairly easy, cheap and safe for BMW NA in the existing 'affected' vehicles...
I'm not sure what exactly is included in m-sport suspension but obviously it cost more than standard suspension and most likely 700 more than standard. that doesn't mean it only cost 700 obviously they wouldn't be installing the stock component which would essentially mean theyre not going to charge you for them. Now if you order stock suspension and then want to swap it for m-sport you paid for the stock and now have to pay for m-sport so it would be more than 700. And I may be wrong and they only charge you more cause they feel like it, but again the 700 dollars more doesn't imply it's only springs.

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Last edited by tiberivs; 08-25-2013 at 06:17 AM.
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  #53  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:19 AM
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Yes - I just wanted to give my US friends here an idea of the "difference" cost between standard and sport suspensions when they are built by the factory; the cost level also suggests nothing more that the springs is involved here (speaking of mechanical parts - the tune may and probably does differ in camber etc.). I bet should the shocks also be different the price difference would be much higher than $700!
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  #54  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:20 AM
tiberivs tiberivs is offline
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***What is BMW doing about the July/August LCI missing the 704 Msport Suspensio

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Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Yes - I just wanted to give my US friends here an idea of the "difference" cost between standard and sport suspensions when they are built by the factory; the cost level also suggests nothing more that the springs is involved here (speaking of mechanical parts - the tune may and probably does differ in camber etc.).
I know I'm just saying its most likely from a little research more than just springs. Maybe my post doesn't carry my point but pretty much just cause its 700 more doesn't mean it's only springs.


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  #55  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:45 AM
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Re: ***What is BMW doing about the July/August LCI missing the 704 Msport Suspension?

Guys for the zillionth time it's much more than just springs. Springs/shocks/struts/swaybar, control arms are different. Little things like spring rubbers are different too. BMW is pricing it for $700 as an EU a'la carte option because even though its parts are sportily superior and beefier, it doesn't cost THEM that much more to make it, because these are mechanical parts and steel is steel, metal is metal, etc. Same concept as the M kit being more expensive than the standard body kit but to BMW probably similar to actually make.

Alan priced it out to buy retail to swap from a standard suspension F10 and cost came out to around $2500 without installation.
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  #56  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Yes - I just wanted to give my US friends here an idea of the "difference" cost between standard and sport suspensions when they are built by the factory; the cost level also suggests nothing more that the springs is involved here (speaking of mechanical parts - the tune may and probably does differ in camber etc.). I bet should the shocks also be different the price difference would be much higher than $700!
In the US the only way to get the Msport suspension is to order the Msport package. BMW doesn't like to give us a whole lot of options, especially now with the interior color choices!
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  #57  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:51 AM
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@K-A, you and Alan might be right - all I know for the fact is that even though I had the M-sport suspension in the specs of my previous BMW (E46 330i), all suspension parts were standard with the exception of the springs. This may or may not be the same with the F10.
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  #58  
Old 08-25-2013, 08:09 AM
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i thought we created this thread to monitor what BMW is doing about 704 on the July/August builds. not to discuss what actually is included with 704 AGAIN (i think at least 2 other threads discussed this) Can we get back on topic? A lot of us are still in limbo land and are really concerned/upset/curious what BMW will do about this disaster.
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  #59  
Old 08-25-2013, 08:29 AM
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Unfortunately there is not much to discuss other than conjecture about what will happen. We should hear something this week.
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  #60  
Old 08-25-2013, 12:44 PM
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A BMW dealer I know does a LOT of custom suspension work for its customers. They told me the 704 retrofit would be no big deal for them, although it COULD be problematic for some shops less able to do the retrofit quickly, correctly, and efficiently. This is why I believe BMW will be flexible with respect to dealers opting in or out of doing the retrofit themselves. Also, I believe a buy back or no-cost reorder provision will be offered to all current pseudo-lemon owners as an alternative to a 704 retrofit.

Last edited by williakz; 08-25-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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  #61  
Old 08-25-2013, 05:58 PM
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So I need a bit of clarification on the changes for US spec 2014 on the 535 xdrive M sport, compared to my 2012. My 2012 has the M sport package and DDC, but no active roll stabilization. I believe the suspension parts are the same as non M drives for that year, thus the DDC improves throttle, steering, and shocks.
For 13 a M sport suspension (I assume 704) was added that changes shocks, bushings etc, and was included with the M sport package. Thus in a way making DDC no longer needed for the sporty feel and handling. And, I believe DDC was still a stand alone option.

For the 2014 LCI there is to date, no M suspension (704), and the DDC is now combined with active roll resulting in a much more costly package.

Does the standard driver control button offer a sport and sport+ mode, and a comfort comfort + mode, like my current, and does it change the shocks or just the steering and throttle?

Is there a configuration that matches the way my '12 is, with M package, dynamic dampers, but no active roll?

Is there, or was there, a M suspension on xdrives, or just the RWD for 13?

I may entertain replacing my 12 if the battery issue returns, but I do not think that the 14 can be equally configured, and also need to see the new mocha in person to see how it compares to my cinnamon.

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  #62  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:01 PM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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Yes let's keep this back on topic please. Frankly I am sick of hearing how this 704 suspension is the greatest thing since sliced bread all of a sudden. I want it because I paid for it when I got the Msport option so now its more about the principle more than anything.
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  #63  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:09 PM
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It is my understanding that a sport suspension has never been offered with the xDrive 5ers. BMW appears to view the xDrive cars as utilitarian and that if one desires a sport suspension then one should purchase the RWD 5er. Audi offers 4 wheel drive cars with a sport suspension.
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  #64  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:31 PM
pharding pharding is offline
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It is not the principle of the thing with me. I developed my build around the M Sport sport suspension. Every 5er that I have owned, 5 including my 2014, has had a sport suspension. I am not going to compromise on that important feature on a car with a MSRP in the low 80's. I have DHP on my 2011 550i and I decided to go with the passive sport suspension which has received excellent reviews here. Plus DHP is overpriced for my taste. Between my dealer and BMW NA, I am sure that something will be worked out, however I will not accept my 550i without the sport suspension.
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  #65  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kssod View Post
So I need a bit of clarification on the changes for US spec 2014 on the 535 xdrive M sport, compared to my 2012. My 2012 has the M sport package and DDC, but no active roll stabilization. I believe the suspension parts are the same as non M drives for that year, thus the DDC improves throttle, steering, and shocks.
For 13 a M sport suspension (I assume 704) was added that changes shocks, bushings etc, and was included with the M sport package. Thus in a way making DDC no longer needed for the sporty feel and handling. And, I believe DDC was still a stand alone option.

For the 2014 LCI there is to date, no M suspension (704), and the DDC is now combined with active roll resulting in a much more costly package.

Does the standard driver control button offer a sport and sport+ mode, and a comfort comfort + mode, like my current, and does it change the shocks or just the steering and throttle?

Is there a configuration that matches the way my '12 is, with M package, dynamic dampers, but no active roll?

Is there, or was there, a M suspension on xdrives, or just the RWD for 13?

I may entertain replacing my 12 if the battery issue returns, but I do not think that the 14 can be equally configured, and also need to see the new mocha in person to see how it compares to my cinnamon.

current: 2012 535i xdrive , SG/Cinnamon M sport, premium, premium sound, tech, sport transmission, HUD
Stop using DDC. It's confusing. It is used interchangably for: Dynamic Damping Control (active shocks) and Driving Dynamics Control (the switch that changes throttle / steering / transmission / suspension depending on your configuration).

There is no current configuration that matches your 2012 configuration. YOu can either have standard suspension, the elusive 704 MSport suspension (which are all non-adjustable) or you can have Dynamic Handling package, which bundles both active dampers and active anti-roll bars.

The Driving Dynamics switch will change steering, throttle and transmission in cars without DHP and will also control shocks and anti-roll bars in cars WITH DHP.
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  #66  
Old 08-25-2013, 07:46 PM
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Stop using DDC. It's confusing. It is used interchangably for: Dynamic Damping Control (active shocks) and Driving Dynamics Control (the switch that changes throttle / steering / transmission / suspension depending on your configuration).

There is no current configuration that matches your 2012 configuration. YOu can either have standard suspension, the elusive 704 MSport suspension (which are all non-adjustable) or you can have Dynamic Handling package, which bundles both active dampers and active anti-roll bars.

The Driving Dynamics switch will change steering, throttle and transmission in cars without DHP and will also control shocks and anti-roll bars in cars WITH DHP.
+1 exactly correct
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  #67  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:28 AM
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i received an email from BMW customer relations this morning. It said that my case has been reassigned to some guy named Sean and said he would call me soon to further assist. So, we'll see...
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  #68  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:26 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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***What is BMW doing about the July/August LCI missing the 704 Msport Suspensio

I just got off the phone with a customer service supervisor at BMW NA. They are aware of the problem. They are working on it, but they have not settled on a solution as of this time. They appreciate my patience on this matter.


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  #69  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:36 AM
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i received an email from BMW customer relations this morning. It said that my case has been reassigned to some guy named Sean and said he would call me soon to further assist. So, we'll see...
Hope he does more than my guy "Joe" did.
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  #70  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:40 AM
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I just got off the phone with a customer service supervisor at BMW NA. They are aware of the problem. They are working on it, but they have not settled on a solution as of this time. They appreciate my patience on this matter.


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  #71  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:50 AM
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Just got off the phone with customer support

he told me there was nothing they would do for the July/August builds. We're basically SOL.

BMW
"It wasn't on your build sheet so its not apart of your car, sorry there is nothing we can do"

me:
"Well there must be a mistake since you fixed it in September, we wouldn't be having this conversation if your didn't fix it in September"

BMW
"Sorry, there is nothing we can do it was not on your build sheet, i cant speculate why it was added or removed"

me:
"Why didn't the package price increase when you added it back in?"

BMW"
"I cant speculate why the price didn't change, but since you paid the price you did for the options at the time, thats what we built for you"

So, everyone that is affected, can you call Sean at BMW and reference this problem. The squeaky wheel will hopefully get the grease. I say we call once a day until they fix the problem.

1-800-831-1117, ext 8538
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  #72  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:00 AM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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I say we call once a day until they fix the problem.
If that was an accurate representation of the call, then calling daily probably won't help. Have a lawyer call.

I would suspect at this point that there are some people who caught this quickly and had the documentation to back it up, and they will get some accommodation, at the price of signing a non-disclosure doc.

If BMW or BMWNA has decided to bury this (can't think of why they would), then calling daily could be categorized as harassment, just let a lawyer run with it now.
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  #73  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:03 AM
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If that was an accurate representation of the call, then calling daily probably won't help. Have a lawyer call.

I would suspect at this point that there are some people who caught this quickly and had the documentation to back it up, and they will get some accommodation, at the price of signing a non-disclosure doc.

If BMW or BMWNA has decided to bury this (can't think of why they would), then calling daily could be categorized as harassment, just let a lawyer run with it now.
What type of lawyer would handle this type of litigation?
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  #74  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:06 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by Richk582 View Post
Just got off the phone with customer support

he told me there was nothing they would do for the July/August builds. We're basically SOL.

BMW
"It wasn't on your build sheet so its not apart of your car, sorry there is nothing we can do"

me:
"Well there must be a mistake since you fixed it in September, we wouldn't be having this conversation if your didn't fix it in September"

BMW
"Sorry, there is nothing we can do it was not on your build sheet, i cant speculate why it was added or removed"

me:
"Why didn't the package price increase when you added it back in?"

BMW"
"I cant speculate why the price didn't change, but since you paid the price you did for the options at the time, thats what we built for you"

So, everyone that is affected, can you call Sean at BMW and reference this problem. The squeaky wheel will hopefully get the grease. I say we call once a day until they fix the problem.

1-800-831-1117, ext 8538
I hate to say it but all of a sudden a couple of days ago this all started to make sense to me and I had a feeling BMW wouldn't do anything for you guys.

Firstly, remember when Justin said there was "something coming", he said early buyers would not get their cars retrofitted, however then his tune on that started to change which maybe got people hopeful?

Think about it how BMW will see this. It's simply a "mid cycle quiet change" to them. Like the Combox thing, like when my W212 E Class had "changes made to 4/2011 builds which resulted in better side impact protection" when my 3/2011 build had the previous build which has "worse" side impact protection. To BMW, you guys calling about this might sound to them like if I called Mercedes and saying "I demand to have whatever fixes occurred to the cars built in the month after for my safety".

I'm assuming that BMW won't even admit that this is an "improvement", instead "Just different" in order to get themselves out of looking like they ripped you off (which in this case, from your justifiable perspective, they did).

My take is that TO THEM, *technically* speaking on a corporate sense, that calling and getting an M suspension retroffited to your car is like calling and asking any car manufacturer to get the fixes (which they will purposefully call *CHANGES* to avoid this very occurrence) applied to months builds after yours that quietly (and VERY often) happen.

Note: I'm not saying that they're right to, I just have a feeling this is what it's gonna be like when dealing with them for you, in this particular matter. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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  #75  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:15 AM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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Different responses from different customer service people is often suspect.
I would suggest waiting until Jon or someone with connections can get us an official response.
As far as lawyers, depending on how far it goes, may end up costing as much as an after market suspension upgrade.
I'm not saying to roll over, but it doesn't sound like we have an official response yet.
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2014 LCI 535i /// M-Sport - SAT, Premium package, HK Audio, Drivers Assistance, Top/Side/Rear cameras, multi-contour seats.
Coded myself: Turn off power when opening door, ASS off by default, Enable turn signals in HUD, DVD in Motion, Transfer telephone ringtone to car, Enable tire pressure and temperature display in iDrive. Disable iDrive legal disclaimer, Disable Rear/Side camera disclaimers.
20/80 Highway/City
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