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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #101  
Old 08-26-2013, 04:46 PM
pharding pharding is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
I have been following this issue for the last two weeks very closely. No, I do not have an F10 on order, but that hardly means it doesn't affect me. One thing has not been cleared out for me and I would REALLY like to know the answer ...

Is this BMWNA debacle or is this BMW debacle? And no, actually, hell, no! are the two the synonyms or the same thing. We DO know that on order sheets there is no 704 code, but what I would truly like to know and would appreciate very much to learn is

- did 704 get dropped by BMWNA and then order sent to Germany

OR

- did M Sport get sent to Germany and 704 stripped THERE?

Thanks to whomever can answer that question with 100% certainty.
BMW NA screwed it up.
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  #102  
Old 08-26-2013, 04:55 PM
RDL53 RDL53 is offline
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Originally Posted by redbull21 View Post
I heard back from my dealership sales manager, who had contacted his corporate production-related-matters person. They indicated that my car did not have 704, and that BMW is not planning to retrofit my car, at the VDC when it arrives on 9/12, or at any other time.

I've had it with this issue - I canceled the order and will reorder today.
redbull, that really stinks but you have no other options at this time but to cancel.

The dealership will advertise your car as a mSport package on their lot and sell it to some unknowing person off the street who will never hear of this issue. So really what does BMW have to lose?

I'm surprised that at this point and what you've been through that your re-order car will have the BMW badge.
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  #103  
Old 08-26-2013, 05:13 PM
Jcv1 Jcv1 is offline
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***What is BMW doing about the July/August LCI missing the 704 Msport Suspensio

I too worked with my dealer and canceled an 8-13 build of MSport 550i. We reordered the proper car. What a waste of time and money. My dealer has been very supportive , patient and understanding.
BMWNA on the other hand acted very differently. I'm a very long term Bimmer owner but if I hear and see more of this, sadly it may be my last.


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  #104  
Old 08-26-2013, 05:17 PM
redbull21 redbull21 is offline
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Originally Posted by RDL53 View Post
redbull, that really stinks but you have no other options at this time but to cancel.

The dealership will advertise your car as a mSport package on their lot and sell it to some unknowing person off the street who will never hear of this issue. So really what does BMW have to lose?

I'm surprised that at this point and what you've been through that your re-order car will have the BMW badge.

There really isn't anything else that I would consider. I drove a lot of different cars (Audi A6, Lexus GS) and felt the F10 M Sport was the best drive by far. I couldn't find an Audi dealer that had an S6 they would let me drive as they were all "customer-ordered cars - sorry!" - I guess they don't want my business enough. I got a great below-invoice deal on this so the lease makes the most sense ecomomically.

I'm not going to let this idiotic foul up by BMW NA spoil the experience for me. My car is still going to be a sweet ride at the end of the day, and for the next three years, which is what is really important to me.
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  #105  
Old 08-26-2013, 05:32 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Guys, I'm telling you, BMW will likely treat this like any silent-change during a years production run. Again, for example you'll see on IIHS, such as my 2011 E Class which had "changes to side door trim which helped side impact protection" done on the months build after my car was built. Or the zillions of other mid-year changes they'll do which most people won't notice. They would never retrofit old cars as you simply got a car before the changes came into effect.

What makes this situation unique is that they DID falsely advertise to those who payed close enough attention, and there's the very likely scenario that it was because of a enthusiasts informing THEM that their website was inaccurate therefore making them realize they had to fix something, and fast (of course also due to massive validated complaints as to why no more M suspension which had gotten the car such transformingly great reviews).

Unless you think they'll cave from initial false advertising claims or something, your best hope is that one of our forum bigwigs can get BMW to do a goodwill thing and that seems like an almost impossible task.

IMO realistically speaking, chances are you're faced with: Take existing order to get the car earlier, or reorder with the proper setup.
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  #106  
Old 08-26-2013, 05:33 PM
pharding pharding is offline
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I informed my CA today that I would not accept delivery of my 550i M Sport without the M sport suspension. My CA said that it was not a big deal to reorder the car. Being a 2014 the dealership has a year to sell it. The sales manager put a call into BMW NA to see how best to move forward. This was my fourth BMW with them in 6 years so they will take care of me. I nurture relationships so that when a bump in the road occurs that it is resolved equitably and promptly. However I do not like to see my fellow BMW Enthusiasts, who took delivery, get screwed. This does not speak well of BMW NA.
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Last edited by pharding; 08-26-2013 at 05:34 PM.
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  #107  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:41 PM
RynoMI6 RynoMI6 is offline
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Seems a lot of people are pointing the fingering and blame at BMW. I'd like to point out that no official paperwork (i.e. Vehicle Inquiry Report, window sticker, etc.) ever mentions that the 704 was part of the M Sport package on 2014 builds. To assume that it was in 2014 just because it was in 2013 is logical but it's still a presumption. I don't think it's fair to say people got screwed when they didn't clearly understand what they were purchasing. The website isn't always accurate and therefore not a perfect tool; the build sheet however is, and it never indicated line item 704. I know this because I had a car on order with an August build and questioned why there was no mention of the suspension. Yes it sucks that those that took delivery prior to September builds don't have it, but lets be clear, it was never promised that it was part of the car.
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  #108  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:50 PM
redbull21 redbull21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RynoMI6 View Post
Seems a lot of people are pointing the fingering and blame at BMW. I'd like to point out that no official paperwork (i.e. Vehicle Inquiry Report, window sticker, etc.) ever mentions that the 704 was part of the M Sport package on 2014 builds. To assume that it was in 2014 just because it was in 2013 is logical but it's still a presumption. I don't think it's fair to say people got screwed when they didn't clearly understand what they were purchasing. The website isn't always accurate and therefore not a perfect tool; the build sheet however is, and it never indicated line item 704. I know this because I had a car on order with an August build and questioned why there was no mention of the suspension. Yes it sucks that those that took delivery prior to September builds don't have it, but lets be clear, it was never promised that it was part of the car.

If it wasn't a mistake by BMW, then why did they suddenly do an about face and decide to put it back the way it was in September? I don't think it was presumptuous of anyone to assume the M sport suspension would still be a part of the package for 2014. BMW NA's "build it" web site even indicated the existence of the 704 suspension in the M Sport package as soon as the 2014 info went live on the web site, then they quickly removed it once they realized they were no longer including it.

What a cluster fu#$. The reality is it was so illogical to decide to remove 704 in the first place, no one saw it coming, even a lot of BMW employees. I wouldn't defend them in any stretch of the imagination with this issue.
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  #109  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:53 PM
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jagu jagu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RynoMI6 View Post
Seems a lot of people are pointing the fingering and blame at BMW. I'd like to point out that no official paperwork (i.e. Vehicle Inquiry Report, window sticker, etc.) ever mentions that the 704 was part of the M Sport package on 2014 builds. To assume that it was in 2014 just because it was in 2013 is logical but it's still a presumption. I don't think it's fair to say people got screwed when they didn't clearly understand what they were purchasing. The website isn't always accurate and therefore not a perfect tool; the build sheet however is, and it never indicated line item 704. I know this because I had a car on order with an August build and questioned why there was no mention of the suspension. Yes it sucks that those that took delivery prior to September builds don't have it, but lets be clear, it was never promised that it was part of the car.
it certainly isn't a stupid or unreasonable assumption for one to expect that a new model $60+ car will have the same or better component as the preceding model. Imagine if they put 4 cylinder engines in the 2014 535i. Further, their official press release did say that the 5 series would come with a better steering system and a better suspension system.
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  #110  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:59 PM
pharding pharding is offline
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The BMW web site was very clear that the M sport suspension was included in the M Sport Package.
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14 550i Euro Del
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  #111  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:59 PM
RynoMI6 RynoMI6 is offline
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Understood, but the website is not an official purchasing tool, it's a guide. The Configurator still has the M3 on there and they're not even building that car anymore. I'm simply pointing out that the purchaser should have been aware of what they're signing and ultimately buying. Yes I agree, to remove it and bring it back makes no sense, but that's not the point of my comment.

Last edited by RynoMI6; 08-26-2013 at 07:04 PM.
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  #112  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:01 PM
RynoMI6 RynoMI6 is offline
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And an assumption is just that, whether it be reasonable or unreasonable. It's not fact.
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  #113  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:12 PM
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Richk582 Richk582 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RynoMI6 View Post
Seems a lot of people are pointing the fingering and blame at BMW. I'd like to point out that no official paperwork (i.e. Vehicle Inquiry Report, window sticker, etc.) ever mentions that the 704 was part of the M Sport package on 2014 builds. To assume that it was in 2014 just because it was in 2013 is logical but it's still a presumption. I don't think it's fair to say people got screwed when they didn't clearly understand what they were purchasing. The website isn't always accurate and therefore not a perfect tool; the build sheet however is, and it never indicated line item 704. I know this because I had a car on order with an August build and questioned why there was no mention of the suspension. Yes it sucks that those that took delivery prior to September builds don't have it, but lets be clear, it was never promised that it was part of the car.
Hmm. I think Sean from BMW joined the forum. Sounds exactly like the comments I heard on the phone today!

To you point ryno my ca didn't even think to check the vir for 704. They were never told otherwise especially when all marketing material indicated it was included. In fact none of the members even noticed until the omission until they noticed the change in ride height. It wasn't really an assumption when no one really knew otherwise. I think it really shows lack of communication between bmw and their dealers. Seemed like they just wanted to hide it but they were caught and quickly fixed it (again without telling dealers).
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  #114  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:17 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Is this the 550i M-Sport suspension history?

2011 M-sport: DHP
2012 M-sport: EDC
2013 M-Sport: Passive M-sport suspension
2014 M-Sport: Standard suspension
2014.1 M-Sport: Passive M-sport suspension

Jeeeeeeeeez.

On one hand you could say that no assumptions should have been made taken the history but on the other hand, wtf is up with all these M-Sport suspension changes?
Check your build sheets gents, next month it could be something totally diffferent again...

Last edited by solstice; 08-26-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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  #115  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:17 PM
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skalberti skalberti is offline
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Originally Posted by Richk582 View Post
Hmm. I think Sean from BMW joined the forum. Sounds exactly like the comments I heard on the phone today!

To you point ryno my ca didn't even think to check the vir for 704. They were never told otherwise especially when all marketing material indicated it was included. In fact none of the members even noticed until the omission until they noticed the change in ride height. It wasn't really an assumption when no one really knew otherwise. I think it really shows lack of communication between bmw and their dealers. Seemed like they just wanted to hide it but they were caught and quickly fixed it (again without telling dealers).
I know more about BMW's than my dealership and the people who answer the phone at BMW NA! It's unreal how you can go into a dealership and ask a simple question and they tell you they're not sure?? Worse yet you call BMW NA and ask the difference between the sport auto with paddles and the steptronic tranny and they tell you "the paddle shifters" is the difference.
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  #116  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:19 PM
RynoMI6 RynoMI6 is offline
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Agreed the lack of communication seems to be poor between BMW and its sales force. Still surprised to hear that the potential buyer doesn't check the VIR. That's something I look at more than once to make certain the dealer has put my order in correctly. I'd have to say, the majority of the sales force when it comes to selling cars lacks a lot of the product knowledge. I wouldn't ever rely on them for accurate info, which is a shame, because one would think they'd be a good source for information.
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  #117  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:20 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RynoMI6 View Post
Understood, but the website is not an official purchasing tool, it's a guide. The Configurator still has the M3 on there and they're not even building that car anymore. I'm simply pointing out that the purchaser should have been aware of what they're signing and ultimately buying. Yes I agree, to remove it and bring it back makes no sense, but that's not the point of my comment.
It may be a guide, but is BMW's official guide, under their control, and it did create a reasonable expectation to those that purchased. That BMW nor BMWNA offered any accommodation is the point, not that someone within BMW made a mistake. Mistakes happen, it's how you deal with them after you make them that people remember.
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  #118  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:21 PM
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skalberti skalberti is offline
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Originally Posted by RynoMI6 View Post
Agreed the lack of communication seems to be poor between BMW and its sales force. Still surprised to hear that the potential buyer doesn't check the VIR. That's something I look at more than once to make certain the dealer has put my order in correctly. I'd have to say, the majority of the sales force when it comes to selling cars lacks a lot of the product knowledge. I wouldn't ever rely on them for accurate info, which is a shame, because one would think they'd be a good source for information.
If you can't get accurate info about the product from the manufacturer or the dealership, where are you supposed to get it from?
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  #119  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by skalberti View Post
If you can't get accurate info about the product from the manufacturer or the dealership, where are you supposed to get it from?
bimmerfest
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  #120  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:28 PM
RynoMI6 RynoMI6 is offline
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I'm going on my 4th BMW, and admittedly, I get most of my info thru the forum boards and www.bmwblog.com

Last edited by RynoMI6; 08-26-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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  #121  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:55 PM
pharding pharding is offline
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It is not like one person was mislead, It takes a substantial income to afford the 5 Series. Most owners are professionals or business owners. BMW, through their website and ordering sheets, mislead a large number of well educated people with substantial incomes.

Here is my 550i for sale. http://www.elmhurstbmw.com/inventory...L-30572925.htm
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04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired

Last edited by pharding; 08-26-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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  #122  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:00 PM
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skalberti skalberti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
It is not like one person was mislead, It takes a substantial income to afford the 5 Series. Most owners are professionals or business owners. BMW, through their website and ordering sheets, mislead a large number of well educated people with substantial incomes.

Here is my 550i for sale. http://www.elmhurstbmw.com/inventory...L-30572925.htm
It also says it has Dakota leather, but the mocha only comes in Nappa. Idiots! All of them!
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  #123  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:02 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skalberti View Post
If you can't get accurate info about the product from the manufacturer or the dealership, where are you supposed to get it from?
Good question....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richk582 View Post
bimmerfest


So true.
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  #124  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:03 PM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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BMW NA screwed it up.
+1. I firmly believe this to be the case.
- BMWNA screwed up by neglecting to order the MSport suspension on the 2014's
- Once the cars started arriving in the U.S. and customers pointed out the lack of the 704 suspension, BMWNA essentially said "oh cr@p, we screwed up" and added the suspension as it should have been in the first place (not on Sept. 1st as they stated, but in mid-August)
- Even though they knew the correction was coming within days, they failed to inform their Dealers of the mistake, thus allowing their dealers and customers to unknowingly deliver/take delivery just a few days before they corrected it.
As another poster stated - Mistakes happen. It''s how you deal with them that matters.
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  #125  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:26 PM
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ausdude ausdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RynoMI6 View Post
Seems a lot of people are pointing the fingering and blame at BMW. I'd like to point out that no official paperwork (i.e. Vehicle Inquiry Report, window sticker, etc.) ever mentions that the 704 was part of the M Sport package on 2014 builds. To assume that it was in 2014 just because it was in 2013 is logical but it's still a presumption. I don't think it's fair to say people got screwed when they didn't clearly understand what they were purchasing. The website isn't always accurate and therefore not a perfect tool; the build sheet however is, and it never indicated line item 704. I know this because I had a car on order with an August build and questioned why there was no mention of the suspension. Yes it sucks that those that took delivery prior to September builds don't have it, but lets be clear, it was never promised that it was part of the car.
Here we go again...The build sheet clearly states that adding package "ZDH Dynamic Handling Package, includes 2VA Adaptive Drive, includes Active Roll Stabilization and Dynamoic Damper Control. Will delete 704 (M Sport Suspension) when ordered with ZMP (M Sport). So if you opt out of ZDH then 704 should stay. That's only common sense.
Now if you can't trust an ordering guide and/or the website what the h3ll can you trust?
Of course it wasn't on the window stickers... The freakin cars were not in the country yet.
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Last edited by ausdude; 08-26-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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