Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E34 (1989 - 1995)

E34 (1989 - 1995)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:40 AM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
E34 Cranks Like Spark Plugs Are Removed:

This E34 sat for three years due to an electrical problem. When I got the problems worked out, it started instantly and idled like brand new. I ran it for a while and restarted it to move it around in the shop several times.

I replaced the spark plugs and compression was 160 across the board. The oil was super clean, but I changed it anyways. The car has less than 100,000 miles on it.

The car then sat for about a month until this morning. I went out to start it and it cranked just like the plugs were out. You could see the crank pulley turning but no compression impulse whatsoever could be heard.

After letting it sit about 15 minutes, it started, but ran roughly. No smoke whatsoever, just rough running, as if it were only running on 3 cylinders.,

After about 2 minutes, it smoothed out and idled perfectly. I drove the car and power is good all the way to redline/shift point with no smoke.

Are these a hydraulic lifter motor????

That's my suspicion at least now anyways.

Thanks for your expertise...
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:19 AM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
Ran the car for several hours yesterday and drove it. This morning, same thing....cranks like plugs are out, then starts hitting on 1-2 cylinders, then starts, runs rough and eventually picks up all 6 cylinders.

GRRRRRR!!!!!!!
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-22-2013, 09:09 AM
Monsignor's Avatar
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
BMW CCA Memeber #445389
Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,199
Mein Auto: M50 Big Body
what motor? M20? M30? M50NV? M50 VANOS?
__________________


1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

Instagram: @Titan_E34
Snapchat: Titan_E34
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:47 AM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
M50TUB25 I think...
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:51 PM
Monsignor's Avatar
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
BMW CCA Memeber #445389
Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,199
Mein Auto: M50 Big Body
And you have compression and new plugs? Sounds very curious.

I'vve never heard of this problem before, so heres a shot from the hip:
they have gigantic!!! power demands. so maybe theres just enough juice to get it slightly fired until the alternator can charge it up? Do you have an aftermarket radio or anything that would drain power when its not in use?

Maybe a video of the hard start and smooothing of the idle?
__________________


1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

Instagram: @Titan_E34
Snapchat: Titan_E34
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:54 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
All stock...new MBZ battery. Cranks without ANY compression impulse cold...exactly like the plugs are out. Cranking speed is unreal....
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:34 PM
Monsignor's Avatar
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
BMW CCA Memeber #445389
Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,199
Mein Auto: M50 Big Body
you said it sat for a very long time after the compression test. Maybe you should have it checked again. Compression and Leak Down tests are very very very telling
__________________


1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

Instagram: @Titan_E34
Snapchat: Titan_E34
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:41 PM
squidky squidky is offline
part time deutchelander
Location: georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5
Send a message via ICQ to squidky
Mein Auto: e34 1993 525i
Re: E34 Cranks Like Spark Plugs Are Removed:

I would pull the coils again and checkto see if you are getting water intrusion in the coil valleys. I just had the same thing happen. A replacement valve cover gasket and some locktite grease on the coil bolts and holes did the trick for me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:43 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
you said it sat for a very long time after the compression test. Maybe you should have it checked again. Compression and Leak Down tests are very very very telling

Compression after sitting 3 years was 150 psi.

Now after driving it compression is 165....Leak down hot is only 10-12% and the motor has less than 100,000 miles on it...
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:55 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidky View Post
I would pull the coils again and checkto see if you are getting water intrusion in the coil valleys. I just had the same thing happen. A replacement valve cover gasket and some locktite grease on the coil bolts and holes did the trick for me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using BimmerApp mobile app
When you crank it cold, the engine just spins without ANY compression impulse...it has no discernible compression when cold and I am convinced it is valve related.
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-22-2013, 02:05 PM
Monsignor's Avatar
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
BMW CCA Memeber #445389
Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,199
Mein Auto: M50 Big Body
The M50 does have hydraulic lifters
__________________


1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

Instagram: @Titan_E34
Snapchat: Titan_E34
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-22-2013, 02:24 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
I'm leaning toward that or a VANOS problem. It's definitely a compression loss from the valvetrain that disappears when hot and compression and power are both good when its warmed up...
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-22-2013, 03:04 PM
E34ZombieHunter's Avatar
E34ZombieHunter E34ZombieHunter is offline
Nothin like an E34
Location: Lillington NC
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,691
Mein Auto: 95 540i B/B
Could it be the oil........
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-22-2013, 03:06 PM
BMR_LVR's Avatar
BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
Humble E34 lover
Location: Asheboro, NC
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,264
Mein Auto: 1992 525i
Hello Doc. Thia may not be worth 2 cents, but it may be worth trying. When the DME on my E36 (M50 with vanos) went out, and I tried cranking the car, it SOUNDED exactly like there was no compression. In fact, I was getting no fuel or spark due to the bad DME.

My supposition (and it's a fairly weak one at that) here is that you are lacking fuel from either a clogged fuel filter or a bad fuel pump.

You can get a can of starting fluid. If the car again will not crank and sounds like you have no compression, give a 2-3 second burst of the starting fluid into the airbox while someone is cranking the engine over. If the car fires immediately, then it most likely confirms my therory. It would just cost the price of a can of the starting fluid.

If it does fire up this way, then you can trouble shoot your fuel delivery system for the actual culprit. Wouldn't hurt to check fuel pressure at the rail as well.

Again, this is kind of out there, but very inexpensive to check out.
__________________
Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-22-2013, 03:32 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
Hmmmm.....interesting.

I installed a Red Label '413' DME in this car because the Silver Label was bad. It fired immediately (its an EWSI car) and has run flawlessly ever since. The car has been started hundreds of times over the past few months and always starts before you can let off the key.

When you go out in the morning, the car will crank like the plugs are out, accompanied by a clanking noise I have never heard before. Then, the car will start to 'hit' on perhaps 2 cylinders and then start and shake violently until it smooths out.

After that first start it runs perfect all day long!
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-22-2013, 03:33 PM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95-540sport View Post
Could it be the oil........
I'm not sure.

I think we put 5/30 or 10/30 Mobil 1 in it because that's what we had in stock....
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-22-2013, 07:40 PM
Robinson Crusoe Robinson Crusoe is offline
Registered User
Location: ADK's
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 1994 530i 195k miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
I'm not sure.

I think we put 5/30 or 10/30 Mobil 1 in it because that's what we had in stock....
Next time try to look up fluid specs. Respect your work.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-23-2013, 06:01 AM
Monsignor's Avatar
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
BMW CCA Memeber #445389
Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,199
Mein Auto: M50 Big Body
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
I'm leaning toward...a VANOS problem.
Not this. VANOS would not have a ny effect on the valvetrain during startup. I would absolutely look into EWS as Steve said
__________________


1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

Instagram: @Titan_E34
Snapchat: Titan_E34
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:20 AM
imae34driver imae34driver is online now
FCK HONDA
Location: Orange County , CA
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,074
Mein Auto: 1995 540i SPORT /6 spd
Im thinking valves or lifters..

Can or does the valve train posses the ability to reduce compression upon start up to make cranking easier?


Can the lifter lose there oil and not open close valves till sufficient oil pressure is achieved? This being the tick?

Sounds like either oil pressure or something else needs to occur first to start.. Find out what its missing
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:50 AM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
EWSI has been bypassed.

During cranking, the 'tapping' is actually compression coming up into the intake manifold. However, there is a 'rattle' that appears only when cold. The engine is dead-quiet when warmed up. I am starting to think the chain may be jumping when cold and then jumping back when warmed up, possibly a bad tensioner.

Fuel pressures and volumes are within spec. Adding supplemental fuel does nothing since there is zero compression available to ignite the fuel.

Swapped in another 413 DME and it does the same thing.

Today I will examine piston crowns with a bore scope to determine if we have valve/piston contact....
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:51 AM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson Crusoe View Post
Next time try to look up fluid specs. Respect your work.
I don't know of anything in a M50TUB25 that wouldn't like Mobil 1. Anyone else care to chime in??? The problem appeared immediately after an oil change...

Inside of motor is spotless, with none of the 'reddish/brown' slime you commonly see in these engines. 94,000 mile original owner car...
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:04 AM
Monsignor's Avatar
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
BMW CCA Memeber #445389
Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,199
Mein Auto: M50 Big Body
I really am stumped with this one. I would tear the top end down.
__________________


1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

Instagram: @Titan_E34
Snapchat: Titan_E34
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:08 AM
imae34driver imae34driver is online now
FCK HONDA
Location: Orange County , CA
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,074
Mein Auto: 1995 540i SPORT /6 spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
EWSI has been bypassed.

During cranking, the 'tapping' is actually compression coming up into the intake manifold. However, there is a 'rattle' that appears only when cold. The engine is dead-quiet when warmed up. I am starting to think the chain may be jumping when cold and then jumping back when warmed up, possibly a bad tensioner.

Fuel pressures and volumes are within spec. Adding supplemental fuel does nothing since there is zero compression available to ignite the fuel.

Swapped in another 413 DME and it does the same thing.

Today I will examine piston crowns with a bore scope to determine if we have valve/piston contact....

I know a car can jump timing, i heard that.. But jumping back??? Does this actually ever happen?

Never heard of it jumping back
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:16 AM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
Der Sturm Uberdoktor
Location: Palm Springs
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 903
Mein Auto: BMW 525i
Quote:
Originally Posted by imae34driver View Post
I know a car can jump timing, i heard that.. But jumping back??? Does this actually ever happen?

Never heard of it jumping back
Maybe it never jumps back. Perhaps once it's running the hydraulic tappets adjust to the new, yet incorrect timing setting.

It's definitely in the valvetrain...
__________________
"Herr Doktor will see you now..."
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:24 AM
imae34driver imae34driver is online now
FCK HONDA
Location: Orange County , CA
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,074
Mein Auto: 1995 540i SPORT /6 spd
These car must need to be driven.. If i let my car sit for days i get a light tick till it starts to warm up ect.. She gets all creaky for a few miles..


As a DD theres no issue
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E34 (1989 - 1995)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms