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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-27-2015, 05:55 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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So the AWD FIGHT

So theres like a lotta subaru people around this part, And i gotta be honest I hate Subies they suck to work on they are like a backwards azz honda

but Ive been thinking more and more about awd, and who really got it when it comes to AWD

That got me thinking... Being the german car loving kindda guy i am.. I did some resarch... (mainly cause my boss is always raggin on bmw < subbie)

then the germany purity law hit me on the head

AUDI 1899 with the real company being called audi in 1910

subaru was founded in 1952, by basiclly a aircraft company

now i would never put bmw in the AWD mix, because honestly.. thats just not there style (and for those of you who have drivin a XI you know what im talking about, they dont feel the same)

and 1916 for our beloved Bayerische Motoren Werke

I think i just came here to vent and say


GERMAN CARS ARE SUPERIOR

Meinst du?

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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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  #2  
Old 02-27-2015, 05:56 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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I do think that when it comes to all wheel drive.. Its audi or nothing,
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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  #3  
Old 02-27-2015, 06:52 PM
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JDeGraff89 JDeGraff89 is offline
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I've driven a Quattro it was nice.. I have yet to drive an IX, or a 4matic either.. So I have no data points.
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Old 02-28-2015, 08:04 AM
HolyToledo HolyToledo is offline
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Dealer loaned me a 330IX a while back. I wasn't too impressed. I enjoyed the X3 much more.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2015, 08:43 AM
billdo billdo is offline
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Only problem I have with my X5 is the CV boots, but that is gonna be a problem on any AWD.
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2015, 10:19 AM
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golferjohnm golferjohnm is offline
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I had over 150,000 miles of seat-time in my '01 X5 4.4 and sold it at exactly 200,000...I really liked it until I purchased my '01 540/6...gave the X5 to my then GF and hardly drove it again.
For an SUV it was excellent, I had just spent the previous 5 years in a V6 4Runner so you can only imagine what a step-up the BMW was.
As far as AWD? It was awful due to the huge staggered tire/wheel set-up...if I went with a dedicated winter tire, I'm certain it would have held its own. For a very short stint in the late '80's, I owned an '84 4000S Quattro which was a great car until something either broke or fell-off. That was back in the day where I'd spend the majority of the winter up at Stevens Pass or Crystal Mt. skiing. I even took that Audi to Big Mountain in Montana, Sun Valley in Idaho, and Mt. Bachelor in Oregon...it never skipped a beat in the snow and that little 5 cylinder had decent pep. Sold it and started a decade run with 4Runners.

Since it snows so rarely where I live, I just keep my baby in the garage and work from home when there's a threat of snow or freezing temps.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2015, 10:45 AM
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SSJRICH 540i SSJRICH 540i is offline
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I think it really comes down to what you are using the AWD for. If you just want something more safe in the rain, pretty much any NEWER AWD system is going to be good for you. If you are looking for something thats going to be a WRC car so you can blast down snow roads at mach 5, then yea you need something with good torq splitting cases and electronic traction control etc. IE STI or equivalent.

From personal experience, my family has been heavy Subaru. Depending on what model you get will largely depend on the traction you receive. My parents new Legacy outback has LSD and torq split T Case. That makes a HUGE difference. Compared to my dads old base Impreza with open diffs and limited torq split.

My Jeep is AWD (right now) with LSD and I have yet to get it off road or in the snow, but its got locking diffs, and I can't see when the diffs are locked that is going to give me any traction problems.

In terms of Bavarian AWD, I have driven X3's and X5's and IX sedans. They all work great in the rain (we get lots) Would I own one, HELL NO. RWD or BUST for me!
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2015, 10:52 AM
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No one makes a better AWD system than Subaru but whether you like Subarus overall is another story. I personally like them but they are not as well built as BMWs.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2015, 10:57 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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lol thats what i was looking for kc5 someone to tell me that subraru makes a better AWD system then audi.. Which is just about the craziest thing ive heard today lol
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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  #10  
Old 02-28-2015, 11:00 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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lol always like the turbo abuse video
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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  #11  
Old 02-28-2015, 11:04 AM
Silver Shadow Silver Shadow is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5 View Post
No one makes a better AWD system than Subaru but whether you like Subarus overall is another story. I personally like them but they are not as well built as BMWs.
Agreed. In many ways though they are better built than BMW because of their simplicity. I've owned a lot of Subarus. 3 Outbacks and 3 SVX (still have the 3 SVX). The AWD system is fantastic and pretty much bullet proof. Once you get to know them, it's not very complicated either.
We traded our 2011 Outback 6 speed manual for the BMW. With the winter we have had I almost wish we hadn't.
That Subie would go places my 4X4 Sierra couldn't.

Last edited by Silver Shadow; 02-28-2015 at 11:06 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2015, 11:06 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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Last edited by Burning2nd; 02-28-2015 at 11:08 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2015, 11:10 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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lol sorry guys... subie anit getting no love from me




notice the way the awd works in this video compaired to the first video of the a4...

the quattro is smarter
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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Old 02-28-2015, 11:16 AM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Just an FYI...2000-03 e53 X5 owners have a differen AWD system than the 2004-06 e53.

The early pre facelift e53s use a permanent 38/62 rear biased torque split that is similar to the e30ix & e34ix (3 & 5 series) from the 80s...obviously updated a bit with updated ASC+T/DSC traction control systems.

The 2004 e53 saw the debut of the variable xDrive AWD system which under normal circumstance has a 40/60 torque slit (biased toward the rear)...but can actually send all power to one wheel.

Again, just bringing this up because many think all e53s have the same AWD system...when they don't.

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2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg

Last edited by QSilver7; 02-28-2015 at 11:20 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
lol thats what i was looking for kc5 someone to tell me that subraru makes a better AWD system then audi.. Which is just about the craziest thing ive heard today lol
Did you actually read what I said? I did not say that Subaru makes a better AWD system than Audi. I said no one makes a better AWD system than Subaru. Understand the difference?
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  #16  
Old 02-28-2015, 11:40 AM
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JDeGraff89 JDeGraff89 is offline
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Well, I am a literate man, and I can't tell the difference in the statements above, so enlighten us.
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R.I.P. Otto, 04/17/97 - 02/02/15 You'll be missed my drunken Bavarian friend.

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  #17  
Old 02-28-2015, 12:05 PM
billdo billdo is offline
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QSilver,

Do you know if one of the X AWD's is better than the other, or just more reliable?
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:06 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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i had a big response typed out, but im not in the mood,

i wanted someone to get in to the technical electrical details of quattro, not a 4x4 car from japan,

in all my audi wrenching.. Ive never had problems with the awd, its always stupid stuff like door switches sunroofs cooling systems..

ive been thinking about it a lot lately.. i might loose one bmw and aquire a a4
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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  #19  
Old 02-28-2015, 12:28 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdo View Post
QSilver,

Do you know if one of the X AWD's is better than the other, or just more reliable?
"Better" is a relative term that may depend on conditions the vehicle is driven in. The early models have a constant front rear torque split and ASC+T/DSC is used to help with traction when a side-to-side loss of traction occurs. Sendig power to just a single wheel isn't really possible.

Whereas the xDrive system can truly vary torque split and send power to a single wheel (front or rear) if it has traction...while braking the other 3 wheels to help them gain traction.

But unless you drive in extreme weather (perhaps like Boston this winter)...or you really take your X5 way off road...again "better' is relative.

As far as reliabilty...it appears the early models have some common mechanical issues with the front diff and splines...whereas the xdrive system issues tend to be electrical.

Other than the xDrive models having variable torque split...its probably 6 of one/half a dozen of another.
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2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg

Last edited by QSilver7; 02-28-2015 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JDeGraff89 View Post
Well, I am a literate man, and I can't tell the difference in the statements above, so enlighten us.
Subaru and Audi use different AWD systems but both work exceptionally well and both are the best on the market. It is a coin toss wrt to the effectiveness of each AWD system. If money is no concern then get an Audi because it is a better car overall with higher grade cosmetic materials. If money is an issue then get the less expensive Subaru which will also be less expensive to maintain throughout its life. They are different animals but both do AWD exceptionally well.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:34 PM
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JDeGraff89 JDeGraff89 is offline
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Originally Posted by kc5 View Post
Subaru and Audi use different AWD systems but both work exceptionally well and both are the best on the market. It is a coin toss wrt to the effectiveness of each AWD system. If money is no concern then get an Audi because it is a better car overall with higher grade cosmetic materials. If money is an issue then get the less expensive Subaru which will also be less expensive to maintain throughout its life. They are different animals but both do AWD exceptionally well.
Ok I see what you're saying, and I don't want to argue.. Really I don't I cold tired and bored.. But "No one makes a better AWD system than Subaru" kind of means, that Subaru makes the Best AWD system.. Yeah? In plain english that string of grammar means Subaru's AWD is unmatched. But I wouldn't wholey agree Audi is the better car, its essentially a Volkswagen with some rings put up front and on the trunk. Oh and some leather thrown in there..
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R.I.P. Otto, 04/17/97 - 02/02/15 You'll be missed my drunken Bavarian friend.

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  #22  
Old 02-28-2015, 02:47 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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lol yeah nailed that one on the head... over priced Vw for sure,



Dont want to get anyone pissed off here.. just wanted to talk about the way the systems are used,
subbie doesnt do variable wheel independence does it? like audi and X drive?

I think when it comes to the tech, bmw is closer to audi then subbie... I basiclly look at subbie as a lower 4x4 truck,
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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  #23  
Old 02-28-2015, 02:49 PM
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JDeGraff89 JDeGraff89 is offline
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In the 90's weren't the A4 and the Jetta the exact same car?.. There were no real differences it was like Corolla /Prizm. Matrix / Vibe. Samurai / Tracker. A4 / Jetta.
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R.I.P. Otto, 04/17/97 - 02/02/15 You'll be missed my drunken Bavarian friend.

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  #24  
Old 02-28-2015, 02:51 PM
Jamolay Jamolay is offline
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I am a long time subaru owner and now a 328xd wagon owner. I have never tested an Audi. I think the subaru AWD is superb, the car a bit lackluster and not in the bmw league.
The bmw xdrive AWD is different, I can feel it change from more RWD preference as I slide around icy corners, but aside from a moment of different road feel, it has so far performed admirably on some crazy ice.
More important, in my mind, is the weight of the car (800 lbs heavier than my old impreza), tires and tires.
When i got my first subaru, I put on studded tires. I felt like I could drive up walls. I never used studded again, didn't need it. Right before I traded it in for the BMW, the winter tires where soooo worn, it didn't even seem like awd as I skidded my way around. My bmw does well in pretty new performance snows, but I don't like the tires and a good set of full snows will make it even better.
Bottom line is:
1. All of the awd systems are probably pretty good.
2. Know yer car.
3. Get good snow tires
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Old 02-28-2015, 03:41 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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Originally Posted by JDeGraff89 View Post
In the 90's weren't the A4 and the Jetta the exact same car?.. .
naww.. not even close.. the audi 90 is about the closest, but you have to remember that back then audi and Vw and Porchea were different company's
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

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