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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 09-05-2013, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigugly fab View Post
That DIY shows nothing about resetting valvetronic adaptations, and performing limitation reset. Without doing that, you risk bending/dropping intake valves as the motor sweeps the wrong direction/area. I've seen it a few times while working in the dealership. If you remove that motor, you HAVE to reset valvetronic adaptations and reset limitations. If not- it's a big gamble.
This adaptation is the .3 to .8 servotroniic valve lift?Ive looked at mine and I'm already maxed at .8.Are you saying preset this to .3 to begin with?On another note Biguglyfab this is off topic sorry but since this e thread has your ear maybe you can help me with a rough idle.I already changed the valve seals in this engine and I sometimes get the clogged secondary air fault.Heads looked very clean when apart so?Im not really worried about the fault and is seldom .I also don't have emission test here.Also already increased valve lift to .8 and helped a little.Smoke tested and found no apparent leaks.Seems like rough idle started after spark plug change .I used the NGK number suggested and there's no misfire faults.Runs great at speed just rough idle.Sorry to take thread another direction just very few really knowledgable people on here.

Last edited by dolfan13; 09-05-2013 at 03:11 AM.
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  #77  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:18 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Rough idle when cold or all the time?
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  #78  
Old 09-05-2013, 07:09 AM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolfan13 View Post
This adaptation is the .3 to .8 servotroniic valve lift?Ive looked at mine and I'm already maxed at .8.Are you saying preset this to .3 to begin with?On another note Biguglyfab this is off topic sorry but since this e thread has your ear maybe you can help me with a rough idle.I already changed the valve seals in this engine and I sometimes get the clogged secondary air fault.Heads looked very clean when apart so?Im not really worried about the fault and is seldom .I also don't have emission test here.Also already increased valve lift to .8 and helped a little.Smoke tested and found no apparent leaks.Seems like rough idle started after spark plug change .I used the NGK number suggested and there's no misfire faults.Runs great at speed just rough idle.Sorry to take thread another direction just very few really knowledgable people on here.
No, relearning process.

If it is at .8, the car isn't in valvetronic operation at idle, and it will have a high amount vacuum in the intake, which it isn't designed for.

It sounds like you didn't pull the heads off?
Perhaps you have an intermediate lever issue?
A shop with an ISTA could run the intermediate lever test to see if they are worn.
Smooth running values need to be looked at.
Coil/plug/injectors need to be swapped after your finding

There isn't a magic bullet to fix it, it has to be diagnosed correctly.
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  #79  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:58 AM
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I mean this check ,My valve lift at bank one at least is set at .8.http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...8&d=1279113064. Idles smooth when cold ,only as it gets warmed up.Thanks for the relplies.Yes I guess I haven't verified what valve lift is set vs actual.

Last edited by dolfan13; 09-05-2013 at 09:01 AM.
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  #80  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:15 AM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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no, i know exactly what you are talking about.

re-read what i said.
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  #81  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:15 PM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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hey there ole' A B,


I have a car coming in from a used car dealership that frequently has me recon his BMW's......



We call it "the mosquito fogger"
This thing smokes like a train lol


unfortunately I don't think I'll have enough time before I fly to Cancun to fix some BMW's next week (i know- rough job, huh )

my next opening is looking like the last week of sept/first week of October-

If this dealer still has this 7 floating around Ill have him bring it here for some "experiements a'la A B" and put this dog to rest
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  #82  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:21 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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545i Blue smoke after idle, Valve seals?

Please... Put the dog to rest


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
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  #83  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:30 PM
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Hay - i had to work this morning - did ya miss me?? Did I miss anything - no one wrote bad things about me while I was gone did they?


Big Ugly - Can I go to Cancun with you - HAH HAH Can I Can I ???? It's not a drug run is it?

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 09-05-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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  #84  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:45 PM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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This is the second run to cancun to fix cars. throw wife on the beach and make money during a vacation. win/win/win/win
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  #85  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:00 PM
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This is the second run to cancun to fix cars. throw wife on the beach and make money during a vacation. win/win/win/win
But But But But - Can I go - I won't bother you while you work - I'll go to the beach too.
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  #86  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:07 PM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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meh. you would argue with me the sand is made of peanut butter or something lol
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  #87  
Old 09-06-2013, 05:03 AM
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Hey Biguglyfab I checked my valve lift setting. someone before I owned the car set the valve lift to the .8mm max.I do have a little higher knock value on #1 cylinder.
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  #88  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:34 AM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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a lot of cars are set @ .8 ideally they "should" run on .3 in valvetronic operation.... but they idle rough.

I can adjust them in .1 increments to fine tune them
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  #89  
Old 09-06-2013, 03:55 PM
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FYI - from 7 series forum

#4
Today, 02:31 PM
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I first heard about seafoam recently as well. My 03 745li was running rough and smoked if you let it sit a few days without running it. I bought a few cans of seafoam and since I couldnt find which vacuum to use to get it in the intake I decided to run the car tilll heated to opperating temps, disconnected the air filter leaving the maf and while running I slowly dumped the seafoam into the intake fast enought to get it in all cylinders but not too fast that it stalled the engine and also not to hydrolock the motor which is detrimental. anyways I dumped a can in the gas tank same time while it was damn near empty and once I got most of the can in the intake I shut off the car and waited about 15 minutes or so. then I restarted the car and ran it till the smoke died down ( It will completely engolf your neighborhood with smoke ) LOL anyways I ran it to the gas station and filled up and by the time I got back home the smoke was gone, hasnt smoked since and idles and runs smooth and even if sitting a week or more does not smoke on startup.

#5
Today, 02:37 PM
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In addition, the seafoam worked to well I plan to use it my next oil change. I will drain about a quart of oil then add a quart of seafoam and run the engine for about 15 minutes or so reving once in a while as not to let it idle too long, then change the oil. Im told this will clean carbon throughout the motor and free up lifters clean oil holes etc.

#6
Today, 02:45 PM
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sorry jsut realised I hyjacked your thread. to answer your question I just went out to my 7 and started it up and removed the oil cap. there was a definite vacuum which made it hard to pull the cap off but once I did it stayed running the idle was rough but stayed running. hope that helps.

#7
Today, 03:28 PM
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2004 745 vacuum
Do not pour a quart of seafoam into your oil!
The correct proportion is 1.5 ounces per quart of oil. The N62 takes 8.5 quarts and the N73 takes 9. So you should only mix 12 - 13.5 ounces of seafoam in your oil. And some people say that's too much. Just don't run it for more than a few miles.
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  #90  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:13 PM
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A B and BigU... I think you both are right.

A B I believe you fixed the symptom

bigU I believe you fix root cause

Interesting that both approaches have a positive effect on the symptom which is reduced or no smoke after idle time.

So answer me this; what causes over time for the vacuum to be so high that it draws oil over from the valve cover vent tubes on the N62? ( wet oily inside intake, not directly caused by a worn stem seal)
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  #91  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:25 PM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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Obviously the high vacuum in the intake from dealerships and technicians putting the car at .8 valve lift..... Making the throttle close to regulate idle(since valvetronic cannot regulate due to the valves being too high) .........which puts the intake at about normal vehicle vacuum at idle.... When its supposed to be at almost *nothing*.....that vacuum DIRECTLY effects the vacuum in the valve covers which puts the engine as a whole under the same vacuum and causes the oil sucking issue.


Amiright?


And his approach is a bandaid, while my way is the fix.

I mean there isn't anything around it. These valves literally fell out when I pulled them to take a picture for you guys. Weak/hard valve guide seals.

Last edited by bigugly fab; 09-06-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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  #92  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigugly fab View Post
Obviously the high vacuum in the intake from dealerships and technicians putting the car at .8 valve lift..... Making the throttle close to regulate idle(since valvetronic cannot regulate due to the valves being too high) .........which puts the intake at about normal vehicle vacuum at idle.... When its supposed to be at almost *nothing*.....that vacuum DIRECTLY effects the vacuum in the valve covers which puts the engine as a whole under the same vacuum and causes the oil sucking issue.


Amiright?


And his approach is a bandaid, while my way is the fix.

I mean there isn't anything around it. These valves literally fell out when I pulled them to take a picture for you guys. Weak/hard valve guide seals.
No one serviced my N62 any time near when the oil in the intake or smoke started. Are you saying the worn guides and seals can have the same effect as a high lift like .8 which inturn closes the throttle body to regulate idle because enough air is getting pulled through the valve cover vent tubes ( which pulls a little oil over too)


Also I have been coding a little and setting the VO for some accessories like BT. Is it possible to set an ECU to default creating a .8 lift ( by accident)?

On the bandaid comment... I tend to think of it as taking ibuprofen for a back ache when you have a bulging disk instead of ... well the actual surgery. I may be taking the treat the symptom approach just to get a few more smokeless miles out of my N62. I won't blame anyone when I hit my accelerator one day and the internal engine parts blow out the exhaust.

Last edited by Hogie; 09-06-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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  #93  
Old 09-07-2013, 01:12 PM
bigugly fab bigugly fab is offline
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in a nut shell, yes. valvetronic was SUPPOSED to be able to support idle, with the throttle practically wide open. very VERY little vacuum.
but valvetronic can only do it at .3mm. anything higher than that, and it will idle higher than 750 rpm.
the DME then has to partially throttle the engine to restrict the air flow into the intake.....
doing that increases the intake (and subsequently the engine crank case system) vacuum higher than what it was designed for.



LOTS of N62/tu's out there have it at .8, because its the "easy" way to make it idle smoothly
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  #94  
Old 09-07-2013, 04:17 PM
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Vacuum closes the CCV.Crankcase pressure is created by higher RPMs and at higher RPMs vacuum goes down.The crankcase pressure then goes to the intake as the spring opens the valve.So increasing lift actually increases vacuum helping to completely close the CCV or diaphragm.Thats why BMW increases lift to help create more vacuum to CLOSE CCVs.If you have a seal leaking somewhere you will have a pressure difference at the CCV causing it to open.Its all physics.If you don't believe me take the CCV cap off and suck on the hose going below the CCV.It will go down closing the port!If you raise the vacuum and you get more oil then your diaphragm is not closing off completely.Its pretty common on over head cam engines for leaking valve seals to cause this just not at such low miles.I think BMW used such small diameter valves they can't dissipate heat well.Or not enough oil supply.A ripped diaphragm may also allow to much vacuum under the valve cover and rob the valve stems of oil.

Last edited by dolfan13; 09-07-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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  #95  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:49 PM
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The throttle valve on the N62 is not necessary for engine load control. This is carried out by the intake valves variable lift adjustment.
The tasks of the throttle valve are:
- Starting the engine
Airflow is controlled by the throttle valve during the starting procedure when the air temperature is between 20 oC and 60 oC, .
If the engine is at operating temperature, it will be switched to non-throttle mode approximately 60 seconds after start up. In cold conditions however, the engine is started with the throttle valve fully opened because this has a positive effect on the starting characteris- tics.
- Ensuring a constant vacuum of 50 mbar in the intake manifold. The pressure control valves regulate the crankcase pressure to a low 0>30 mbar.
This vacuum is needed to exhaust the blow-by gases from the crankcase and the fuel vapors from the activated charcoal filter.
- The backup function
If the Valvetronic system should fail, the throttle valve implements conventional load control.

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 09-08-2013 at 10:27 AM. Reason: info
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  #96  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:08 PM
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What if you had a problem with the throttle valve and is wasn't regulating the vacuum to 50 mbar at some point while driving. (assuming your valvetronics are adjusted and working correctly) Could this be a reason excessive oil could be consumed thru the intake? Would a defective (intermittent) throttle valve operation or vacuum set a code or check engine light? Or the other way around - throttle valve correcting valvetonics defects? This would account for the fact that you (and others) say that the smoke goes away after you replace the valve stem seals - because I assume you adjust & reset throttle valve and valvetronics?
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  #97  
Old 09-08-2013, 04:31 AM
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AB able I guess your directing this to ugly?THE VACUUM CLOSES the diaphragm.Extra lift will help close the CCV !!The spring keeps it open.I should actually say a pressure difference opens/closes CCV.If you have some type of crankcase leak then the CCV will not operate correctly.
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  #98  
Old 09-08-2013, 07:02 AM
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AB able I guess your directing this to ugly?THE VACUUM CLOSES the diaphragm.Extra lift will help close the CCV !!The spring keeps it open.I should actually say a pressure difference opens/closes CCV.If you have some type of crankcase leak then the CCV will not operate correctly.
I'm actually directing the question to anyone with working knowledge. I think we're on the right track with these N62's - as long as everyone considers all posibilities with an open mind (considering the complexity of these engines).

I understand how the CCV system works, but the two facts that stick out in my mind are:
- Those 2 springs under the diaphragms have a pretty good compression requirement to allow the valves to close. (I'm sure there's an engineering term for the process of compressing a spring) They require enouph vacuum to compress both springs to seal off any oil flow (vacuum) to the intake, while combating crankcase pressure on the other side. Keep in mind that the oil separator system is basic, only utilizing labyrinth separators in each valve cover. I believe this is the only BMW engine that does not use a cyclone separator. An engine with some miles on it, that also may be exposed to a environment where moisture or sludge is prevalent, will probably have some contamination that has reduced the efficiency of these basic labyrinth separators. If you also consider the older N62's with the vacuum line attached to the CCV cap, then the vacuum required to close the valve is also fighting to override the vacuum from the fresh air tube before the trottle valve. It seams like a no win situation for those CCV diaphragms.
- Now you guys have really got me thinking about the valvetronics and the throttle valve. How the throttle valve compensates for vacuum deficiencies and how the adjustment of the valvetronics may come into play. It makes my head spin.

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 09-08-2013 at 07:05 AM.
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  #99  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:05 AM
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Yes A B I agree with all your saying ,I say the balancing act these do is tricky.Im replacing mine every 30k miles need it or not.
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  #100  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:40 AM
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Yes A B I agree with all your saying ,I say the balancing act these do is tricky.Im replacing mine every 30k miles need it or not.
When I first started experimenting with my CCVs (adding the filters and such) - I placed a piece of light density foam pad (about 1/4 inch thick) on the cap side of each diaphragm - in the assumption that it could help counter the spring tension when closing. I thought that, if it worked, maybe I should replace the existing springs with something less rigid. I got side tracked with my theory - my smoke went away and it used alot less oil - when I pulled those pads out, they were permanently compressed due to heat & spring pressure. I may now try to locate some replacement springs.
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