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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I remember reading the same thing, E90 owners saying their car was to soft compared to the E46.
Yep, it happens every time a new generation comes out. E30 owners complained about E36, then E26 about E46, so the saga continues. Almost dangeorous? Rubbish. Bleh
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  #27  
Old 09-01-2013, 06:06 PM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

I once read a quote from Bill Gates that went something like "It is hard to convince a company that is making a lot of money that they are in a crisis"

Now I don't by any stretch believe that BMW is in crisis but the so called "Status" market can be very fickle as the rise and fall of brands like Lincoln, Cadillac and even Lexus has demonstrated.

I think BMW is very interested in upholding their image as the luxury brand with the best driving dynamics and their support of racing and of tracks like Lime Rock backs this view up.

BMW has traditionally built what I would characterize as GT cars rather than hard core sports cars. GT cars combine comfort and a certain amount of practicality and luxury with good driving dynamics. BMW has excelled at that for years.

I suspect that the LCI F30 will address the body roll issue. Since there is no advantage to body roll and it can be easily corrected I don't see why they would not.

CA




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Last edited by captainaudio; 09-01-2013 at 06:12 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2013, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I once read a quote from Bill Gates that went something like "It is hard to convince a company that is making a lot of money that they are in a crisis"

Now I don't by any stretch believe that BMW is in crisis but the so called "Status" market can be very fickle as the rise and fall of brands like Lincoln, Cadillac and even Lexus has demonstrated.

I think BMW is very interested in upholding their image as the luxury brand with the best driving dynamics and their support of racing and of tracks like Lime Rock backs this view up.

BMW has traditionally built what I would characterize as GT cars rather than hard core sports cars. GT cars combine comfort and a certain amount of practicality and luxury with good driving dynamics.

I suspect that the LCI F30 will address the body roll issue. Since there is no advantage to body roll and it can be easily corrected I don't see why they would not.

CA

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I wouldn't say there's been any "fall" of the Lexus brand. They aimed at their "niche" market and did quite well...continuing to chip away at the German brands. Cadillac? Even I'm surprised at their success with their high performance entries (if they'd only get rid of that ugly emblem/logo)...but I'm shocked that two of my BMW CCA driving instructor friends now own one (at least one M5 was sacrificed). Go figure.

Lincoln?
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  #29  
Old 09-01-2013, 06:27 PM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
I wouldn't say there's been any "fall" of the Lexus brand. They aimed at their "niche" market and did quite well...continuing to chip away at the German brands. Cadillac? Even I'm surprised at their success with their high performance entries (if they'd only get rid of that ugly emblem/logo)...but I'm shocked that two of my BMW CCA driving instructor friends now own one (at least one M5 was sacrificed). Go figure.

Lincoln?
Lexus was the best selling luxury brand for a number of years and they took that title from Cadillac who held it for a very long time. Cadillac is now making a strong comeback but are fighting hard to regain their reputation as a quality brand.

They average age of BMW drivers has gone up over the last few years. Of course the average age of the population had also gone up. Ideally a brand wants to attract young buyers and keep them as they get older and more affluent and move up the price ladder

I remember talking to a Toyota salesman in the late 70s. He had just returned from sales training and was saying that Toyota was planning on releasing a car that competed with Mercedes so that when the present buyers reached their peak earning years they would stick with the brand.
I thought it was just marketing hype but lot and behold the Lexus LS 400 was released and sent the Germans scrambling.

Expanding a market base is never a bad idea but losing the market segment that built the brand in the process had not traditionally proven to be a great strategy.

That being said I don't really feel that BMW had seriously lost its direction. They have matured along with the rest of the market and will likely remedy the driving dynamics issues that some of their traditional customers are less than happy with,

CA

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Last edited by captainaudio; 09-01-2013 at 06:41 PM.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2013, 06:30 PM
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Are these what you used for the headlight bulbs?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-H7-X...556b68&vxp=mtr
Not positive but this is what and where I bought them - they work great! BTW - Sorry I bought the last 2 pairs......

http://store.candlepower.com/bfcopotphxtp.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
...... That does not mean that there is no room for improvement or that owners should not express their concerns to BMW.

CA


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Of course BMW cares and there is always room for improvement - its nonsensical to think otherwise, however, regarding a petition, one really needs to recognize that an enthusiast should have some level of awareness, and consequently, needs to take some measure of personal responsibility. I assume buyers of F30s on this forum test drove the car before buying it. After test driving my 328xi, I understood it was not equivalent to my M3 in terms of handling but I did not want another M3. I wanted a daily driver that was fast economical comfy and compliant - in short, a car that will allow me to cover a lot of ground in a safe efficient manner. So far - my 328xi Sport-line is proving ideal.
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  #31  
Old 09-01-2013, 06:41 PM
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Not positive but this is what and where I bought them - they work great! BTW - Sorry I bought the last 2 pairs......

http://store.candlepower.com/bfcopotphxtp.html



Thanks, found 'em on eBay for $40 shipped for the pair. The stock halogens are terrible, worse than the '00 lights on my '98.
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  #32  
Old 09-01-2013, 06:57 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Thanks, found 'em on eBay for $40 shipped for the pair. The stock halogens are terrible, worse than the '00 lights on my '98.
I don't want to hijack this thread but I agree....I've owned 8 BMWs and these are the worst lights ever....be sure to purchase for both high and low beams - and fogs. The three pairs in tandem are literally like night and day compared to the oems.

Perhaps we should start a petition requesting BMW to make xenon lights standard ....I never dreamed that a car in 2013 would come with such substandard lights especially a BMW.
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  #33  
Old 09-01-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Lexus was the best selling luxury brand for a number of years and they took that title from Cadillac who held it for a very long time. Cadillac is now making a strong comeback but are fighting hard to regain their reputation as a quality brand.

They average age of BMW drivers has gone up over the last few years. Of course the average age of the population had also gone up. Ideally a brand wants to attract young buyers and keep them as they get older and more affluent and move up the price ladder

I remember talking to a Toyota salesman in the late 70s. He had just returned from sales training and was saying that Toyota was planning on releasing a car that competed with Mercedes so that when the present buyers reached their peak earning years they would stick with the brand.
I thought it was just marketing hype but lot and behold the Lexus LS 400 was released and sent the Germans scrambling.

Expanding a market base is never a bad idea but losing the market segment that built the brand in the process had not traditionally proven to be a great strategy.

That being said I don't really feel that BMW had seriously lost its direction. They have matured along with the rest of the market and will likely remedy the driving dynamics issues that some of their traditional customers are less than happy with,

CA

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We'll see. The F30 "steering feel" has been thoroughly trashed by the automotive press (and me), What were they thinking of?...as if Munich threw away their "legacy" manual.

What next? A front wheel drive M3?
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  #34  
Old 09-01-2013, 07:18 PM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
We'll see. The F30 "steering feel" has been thoroughly trashed by the automotive press (and me), What were they thinking of?...as if Munich threw away their "legacy" manual.

What next? A front wheel drive M3?
Steering feel is what sold me on BMW and made me determined to keep the 335i and try to work out the issues with the overly harsh suspension (which I did).

The 750 also has excellent steering and driving dynamics that make it feel like a much smaller and lighter car.

I'll test drive a 435 and an M4 as soon as they become available.

CA


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  #35  
Old 09-01-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
Exactly - life's short - go drive something that makes you happy....

I have driven my 328xi Sport-line daily driver almost 2K miles since purchase. The car would not be my choice to autocross, but it was my first choice as an excellent means of spirited transportation. I appreciate the lissome performance and very balanced compliant suspension. On the same road that destroyed no less than 3 tires and rims on my former e93 335i MT - my 328xi negotiates confidently, safely, and quickly. I often drive from DC to West Virginia and I can confront challenging conditions. Through fast tight sweepers and switch-backs the car just sticks.....really quite competent, if not confidence inspiring. In the real world, my 328xi is fast, compliant, comfy, economical, and fun - I am impressed.

BTW the only serious criticism of the car I have are the less than confidence inspiring standard lights but I readily remedied that situation with Phillips X-treme Power H7s for low/high beams and Osram H-7 all-season fogs.
Totally agree .. I had the E90 .. and now F30 Sports Line which I love (just done 17,000 kilometers) as the daily commute ... Just like you .. changed the H7s for new Philips X-Tremes which have placated my only real concern ...

Gary W.,
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2013, 08:37 PM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

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Originally Posted by Pat_X5 View Post
I then test drove a X1 s28i and it was more awful - no feel no connection no nothing - felt like a 80's Caddy or your grandpa's Buick....
The X1 sits on an E90 chassis.
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  #37  
Old 09-01-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
The X1 sits on an E90 chassis.
That explains how the feel of the X1 mimics an E90.

But can you tell me why an X1 with the X Drive in the 6 cylinder flavor has great steering compared to the awful s28i electric steering ???

Just today the 335x GT caught my eye and I love the exterior and interior - it might be my 335d replacement but the steering was awful - felt like a s28i light electric steering w/ soft suspension.....

What happened ?

Did electric steering take over all new BMWs and I am now asking what do I do to regain the classic BMW hydraulic, feedback giving, torque steering feel ????
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  #38  
Old 09-01-2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Steering feel is what sold me on BMW and made me determined to keep the 335i and try to work out the issues with the overly harsh suspension (which I did).

The 750 also has excellent steering and driving dynamics that make it feel like a much smaller and lighter car.

I'll test drive a 435 and an M4 as soon as they become available.

CA


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CA: what new BMW models are left with the E90 type steering and suspension ???

I have test drove the X1 and 328 + 335 GT and ruled them out because they are electric steering and soft cushy rides...
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  #39  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:06 PM
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As the saying goes "the squeaky wheel gets the oil".
Each one of us, whatever our concern is, need to tell BMW customer service that we are not happy with one or more of the following:
1. Suspension--no feeling
2. Steering--too light, not very responsive
3. 35% of 3 series parts made from outside Germany
4. High price of base and options
5. Quality issues--drivetrain malfunction, iDrive reboot, ASS, etc.
6. More standard items--halogen lights, alarm, sunroof, etc.
7. Availability of more MT on the lot
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  #40  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Hi All,

So for those of you who owned an e90 and now own an f30, you know that the f30 has lost that love and feeling. The love I am talking about is the suspension. Even those who have DHP the complaint is the suspension is more loose than the e90 (which didn't have the concept of DHP).

I have an X-drive, and in the e90 the road handling was tight - never a complaint. In the f30, it feels loose (like an Altima) and almost dangerous.

What is BMW known for, amongst other cars in it's class (Audi, Lexus, Benz)? It's the suspension. Any car can go fast, any car can go quick, and any car luxurious. BMW is not known for being technologically innovative and tends to follow others. So if the suspension of the 3 series is the same as the other cars, why buy a BMW over those cars? Where is the competative edge? We could spend a lot of time discussing that, and the purpose of this thread is not to do so.

The question, especially since I have never done something like this before, should we start a petition to submit to BMW to make DHP standard, and bring the suspension back to what it was in the e90 (for all models)? For those concerned about the feeling when you ride over rough road, we have many festors who have fixed it by simply updating the shocks and tires (e.g., CaptainAudio). So this is not exactly a hard fix. Essentially, the pendulum swung the other way, and it's killing one of BMWs main competative advantages.

So, should we get a petition going? If we get 1000 signatures, or more, BMW might just listen and fix it (probably during LCI).

Best
BMW has already addressed this. Regrettably, you chose the softest variant of the F30 suspension:

1. M-Performance Suspension
2. Sport Line Suspension
3. Adaptive M-Suspension
4. Comfort Supension
5. XDrive Suspension

The XDrive Suspension without DHP is the softest and loosest of the bunch. In order for BMW to offer the 3 Series to a very wide audience, people expecting to pay $30,000 to $60,000 for the same car, BMW had to allow for a very wide assortment of options and packages.

It is not a 'petition' that is needed. Rather an understanding that when you take a car designed to be a best-in-class luxury sport sedan at $50,000 and strip it down you're going to lose a lot. In the old days, the tight suspension and legendary handling were standard equipment; now you have to pay for it. Strip the GPS and the leather, no worries. Strip the Sport line, strip the DHP, don't opt for the M-Performance, it's on the buyer, not the manufacturer.

BJ
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  #41  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Hi All,

So for those of you who owned an e90 and now own an f30, you know that the f30 has lost that love and feeling. The love I am talking about is the suspension. Even those who have DHP the complaint is the suspension is more loose than the e90 (which didn't have the concept of DHP).

I have an X-drive, and in the e90 the road handling was tight - never a complaint. In the f30, it feels loose (like an Altima) and almost dangerous.

What is BMW known for, amongst other cars in it's class (Audi, Lexus, Benz)? It's the suspension. Any car can go fast, any car can go quick, and any car luxurious. BMW is not known for being technologically innovative and tends to follow others. So if the suspension of the 3 series is the same as the other cars, why buy a BMW over those cars? Where is the competative edge? We could spend a lot of time discussing that, and the purpose of this thread is not to do so.

The question, especially since I have never done something like this before, should we start a petition to submit to BMW to make DHP standard, and bring the suspension back to what it was in the e90 (for all models)? For those concerned about the feeling when you ride over rough road, we have many festors who have fixed it by simply updating the shocks and tires (e.g., CaptainAudio). So this is not exactly a hard fix. Essentially, the pendulum swung the other way, and it's killing one of BMWs main competative advantages.

So, should we get a petition going? If we get 1000 signatures, or more, BMW might just listen and fix it (probably during LCI).

Best
I sent a request to EAS for Bilsteins. That should fix my problem. LOL
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
... I understood it was not equivalent to my M3 in terms of handling but I did not want another M3. I wanted a daily driver that was fast economical comfy and compliant - in short, a car that will allow me to cover a lot of ground in a safe efficient manner. So far - my 328xi Sport-line is proving ideal.
Yep. Same here. Except I bought 118d BMWNA Special Edition (see signature). That Golf TDI MT is everything my E92 N55 ZSP MT isn't for everyday driving and I'm hugely enjoying it. Your point is?

By the way, Golf certainly has better steering. At least I can feel understeer in time to do something about it. With normal suspension, with all-season tires.
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  #43  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by LarryboysUDM View Post
. . .
Each one of us, whatever our concern is, need to tell BMW customer service that we are not happy with one or more of the following:
. . .
With a list this extensive, BMW will just wonder why you bought one of their cars.

(BTW, most of us are sophisticated enough to appreciate global manufacturing and are insufficiently xenophobic to demand all German parts.)
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  #44  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:35 AM
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With a list this extensive, BMW will just wonder why you bought one of their cars.

(BTW, most of us are sophisticated enough to appreciate global manufacturing and are insufficiently xenophobic to demand all German parts.)
The F30 is not an enthusiasts car, period. The sooner the masses come to that eventual conclusion, the better.

For those who simply can't let go, soon there will be a 1 Series sedan and everything will make sense.

BJ
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  #45  
Old 09-02-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pat_X5 View Post
That explains how the feel of the X1 mimics an E90.

But can you tell me why an X1 with the X Drive in the 6 cylinder flavor has great steering compared to the awful s28i electric steering ???
I can. Apparently the electronic steering mechanics occupy the same space inside the engine bay that some of the xDrive equipment uses, so xDrive cars still use hydraulic steering. For now, anyway.
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  #46  
Old 09-02-2013, 08:31 AM
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I can. Apparently the electronic steering mechanics occupy the same space inside the engine bay that some of the xDrive equipment uses, so xDrive cars still use hydraulic steering. For now, anyway.
True on the X1, not on the F30.
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  #47  
Old 09-02-2013, 08:36 AM
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Mein Auto: Traded M5 for Volt!?!?
Pretty soon, if not already, it won't matter. Many BMW owners have never driven an E46/E39, much less an E36 or an E30. As time progresses, that will only get to be more so. As a result, the "points of reference" to those kings of ride/handling balance will become irrelevant. Heck, last year we sold our '01 530i for a Volvo XC60 and '02 M5 for a Chevy Volt. The steering feedback, ride and handling all took a nose dive with the new cars as compared to the old, BUT slowly I've forgotten a bit as time progresses and the delta bothers me less. My son did come home from college last week and I got to drive his E36 M3 around and was reminded...I was also reminded of how crude that car is compared even to the E39s (much less our new 2012 models).

The only thing that will alter BMW's path is sales figures, and for this item to become relevant, one of their competition (Audi/Lexus/Mercedes/Cadillac/Volvo/etc/) will have to suddenly get it (and everything else) "right" to begin to sway the enthusiast community (which, in turn, can slooooowly sway general public opinion). As of today, it doesn't appear anyone else as done that. Audi, with their Quattro obsession often feels FWD biased...Volvo is similar and less polished overall. Cadillac looks to have nailed the handling with the ATS, but appears to have fallen short everywhere else - a one trick pony. The latest IS350 is getting good reviews and they'll no doubt sell a ton, but the styling is polarizing and there is still an element of basic Toyota in those cars (always has been, and probably always will be). Mercedes SHOULD be the likely contender, but for whatever reason they don't seem to hit the mark in any one area. That leaves BMW. Faltering in this area? Sure. More right than wrong though? It appears so. Anyone else doing any better? Not that I can tell.
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  #48  
Old 09-02-2013, 08:48 AM
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av98 av98 is online now
ZHP = Patlabor
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Hi All,

So for those of you who owned an e90 and now own an f30, you know that the f30 has lost that love and feeling. The love I am talking about is the suspension. Even those who have DHP the complaint is the suspension is more loose than the e90 (which didn't have the concept of DHP).

I have an X-drive, and in the e90 the road handling was tight - never a complaint. In the f30, it feels loose (like an Altima) and almost dangerous.

What is BMW known for, amongst other cars in it's class (Audi, Lexus, Benz)? It's the suspension. Any car can go fast, any car can go quick, and any car luxurious. BMW is not known for being technologically innovative and tends to follow others. So if the suspension of the 3 series is the same as the other cars, why buy a BMW over those cars? Where is the competative edge? We could spend a lot of time discussing that, and the purpose of this thread is not to do so.

The question, especially since I have never done something like this before, should we start a petition to submit to BMW to make DHP standard, and bring the suspension back to what it was in the e90 (for all models)? For those concerned about the feeling when you ride over rough road, we have many festors who have fixed it by simply updating the shocks and tires (e.g., CaptainAudio). So this is not exactly a hard fix. Essentially, the pendulum swung the other way, and it's killing one of BMWs main competative advantages.

So, should we get a petition going? If we get 1000 signatures, or more, BMW might just listen and fix it (probably during LCI).

Best
Good luck with that! Here's to hoping an F30 ZHP/335is package is in the works for the last 3-5 years of life for the F30.


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Last edited by av98; 09-02-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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  #49  
Old 09-02-2013, 08:59 AM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The F30 is not an enthusiasts car, period. The sooner the masses come to that eventual conclusion, the better.


BJ
Hyperbole - please ignore

I've been emancipated from the masses.
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  #50  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:34 PM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Mein Auto: 2013 F30, 704 SS option
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Anyone who thought that an E9x with sport suspension and Bridgestone RFTs was soft is more likely to have previously owned a Conestoga Wagon than an E46.
My E90 with SS was awesome to drive. My F30 with optional 704 SS (it's not!) is still way too soft for me. I'm looking for opinions on H&R springs on F30s, if anyone can help out.

Roberta
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