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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:49 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
My E90 with SS was awesome to drive. My F30 with optional 704 SS (it's not!) is still way too soft for me. I'm looking for opinions on H&R springs on F30s, if anyone can help out.

Roberta
I made a thread about my H&R swap.
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  #52  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:46 PM
Andy6027 Andy6027 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
Perhaps we should start a petition requesting BMW to make xenon lights standard ....I never dreamed that a car in 2013 would come with such substandard lights especially a BMW.
I feel fortunate that xenon lights come standard here in Canada. Hopefully they will follow suit in the US.
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  #53  
Old 09-02-2013, 07:21 PM
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pointandgo pointandgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Lexus was the best selling luxury brand for a number of years and they took that title from Cadillac who held it for a very long time. Cadillac is now making a strong comeback but are fighting hard to regain their reputation as a quality brand.

They average age of BMW drivers has gone up over the last few years. Of course the average age of the population had also gone up. Ideally a brand wants to attract young buyers and keep them as they get older and more affluent and move up the price ladder

I remember talking to a Toyota salesman in the late 70s. He had just returned from sales training and was saying that Toyota was planning on releasing a car that competed with Mercedes so that when the present buyers reached their peak earning years they would stick with the brand.
I thought it was just marketing hype but lot and behold the Lexus LS 400 was released and sent the Germans scrambling.

Expanding a market base is never a bad idea but losing the market segment that built the brand in the process had not traditionally proven to be a great strategy.

That being said I don't really feel that BMW had seriously lost its direction. They have matured along with the rest of the market and will likely remedy the driving dynamics issues that some of their traditional customers are less than happy with,

CA

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I've recently retired as a Lexus supplier. I understand their quality standards and customer satisfaction dedication; nobody comes close.

In the early days when they were trying to establish themselves in the U.S., they would actually send "representatives" to the car owner's home to retrieve the car for any "complaints." A very typical Japanese approach. The repaired car would be delivered back to the owner with an "apology" as soon as possible. They don't do this anymore.

I had lunch many years ago with Lexus (Torrance, CA.) top quality assurance manager (he looked very weary) and he lamented how "expensive" uncompromising customer service was, but this wasn't a complaint. It was a comment about the Lexus committment.

A work associate of mine bought a 'high end' Lexus during this time (his wife's car) and she made a complaint about a "blemish" on the leather (seat) during a routine service stop (she was rather demanding). They replaced the entire seat...without any "debate or discussion" providing a loaner in the meantime.
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  #54  
Old 09-02-2013, 08:52 PM
m_tegey m_tegey is offline
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Lightbulb My experience with the E90 and the F30

I apologize about any grammatical errors in advance. It's been a long day I was about to go to bed but I came across this thread and just had to respond.

As the former owner owner of a 2009 E90 328xi and a current owner of a 2013 F30 328xi I can tell you the the E90 and the F30 feel completely different, mostly for the better.

My E90 was a wonderful refined machine. It felt planted and confident in the corners, the brakes solid, the steering the perfect weight and consistent. However the E90 had its faults. I live in north east Ohio so I get my share of crappy roads with all of their bumps, cracks, and massive potholes. The problem with the E90 is that when you come across bumpy roads, every bump is heard as a solid thud though the car. Every pothole is met with unforgiving harshness that caused three off my wheels to bend.

My F30 on the other hand has the same solid feel through the corners, all be it with a bit more body roll than my E90 did, but it feels great none the less. The F30 feels more nimble and it should, it's significantly lighter! The F30 is much much much more forgiving over rough roads than its predecessor and feels that the luxury car that it should be. It's a nice feeling to not worry if I broke a suspension component every time it hit a bump. I love the increased horsepower and torque of the new turbo four banger.

All in all as an owner of both cars I can say I much prefer the F30 over the E90. There's room for improvement on the new car, but in my opinion it's a far superior product to the E90. Lastly I'd like to say to everybody that's been complaining about the F3X not living up to the E9X benchmark, you didn't have to purchase a F3X if you didn't like it. Nobody made you purchase a car you didn't like. You could have just as easily purchased the E9X of your dreams and saved a ton of money doing it too. Both cars are awesome, choose the one you want and enjoy it. Just one mans opinion.
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2013, 08:58 PM
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pointandgo pointandgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_tegey View Post
I apologize about any grammatical errors in advance. It's been a long day I was about to go to bed but I came across this thread and just had to respond.

As the former owner owner of a 2009 E90 328xi and a current owner of a 2013 F30 328xi I can tell you the the E90 and the F30 feel completely different, mostly for the better.

My E90 was a wonderful refined machine. It felt planted and confident in the corners, the brakes solid, the steering the perfect weight and consistent. However the E90 had its faults. I live in north east Ohio so I get my share of crappy roads with all of their bumps, cracks, and massive potholes. The problem with the E90 is that when you come across bumpy roads, every bump is heard as a solid thud though the car. Every pothole is met with unforgiving harshness that caused three off my wheels to bend.

My F30 on the other hand has the same solid feel through the corners, all be it with a bit more body roll than my E90 did, but it feels great none the less. The F30 feels more nimble and it should, it's significantly lighter! The F30 is much much much more forgiving over rough roads than its predecessor and feels that the luxury car that it should be. It's a nice feeling to not worry if I broke a suspension component every time it hit a bump. I love the increased horsepower and torque of the new turbo four banger.

All in all as an owner of both cars I can say I much prefer the F30 over the E90. There's room for improvement on the new car, but in my opinion it's a far superior product to the E90. Lastly I'd like to say to everybody that's been complaining about the F3X not living up to the E9X benchmark, you didn't have to purchase a F3X if you didn't like it. Nobody made you purchase a car you didn't like. You could have just as easily purchased the E9X of your dreams and saved a ton of money doing it too. Both cars are awesome, choose the one you want and enjoy it. Just one mans opinion.
Just out of curiosity...where are the "areas for improvement" in your opinion? Don't be shy.

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  #56  
Old 09-02-2013, 09:13 PM
m_tegey m_tegey is offline
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Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
Just out of curiosity...where are the "areas for improvement" in your opinion? Don't be shy.

I'd say that the ride height on the xDrive models needs to be addressed. The wheel gap is enormous and looks terrible. The standard "low rolling resistance tires" should be an option, not standard. While the "Eco" tires are quiet they just don't provide a ton of grip, which is great if you want to slide the car around, but is lousy if you truly want to be the most out if the car.
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  #57  
Old 09-02-2013, 09:17 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_tegey View Post
.....

My E90 was a wonderful refined machine. It felt planted and confident in the corners, the brakes solid, the steering the perfect weight and consistent. However the E90 had its faults. I live in north east Ohio so I get my share of crappy roads with all of their bumps, cracks, and massive potholes. The problem with the E90 is that when you come across bumpy roads, every bump is heard as a solid thud though the car. Every pothole is met with unforgiving harshness that caused three off my wheels to bend.

My F30 on the other hand has the same solid feel through the corners, all be it with a bit more body roll than my E90 did, but it feels great none the less. The F30 feels more nimble and it should, it's significantly lighter! The F30 is much much much more forgiving over rough roads than its predecessor and feels that the luxury car that it should be. It's a nice feeling to not worry if I broke a suspension component every time it hit a bump. I love the increased horsepower and torque of the new turbo four banger.

All in all as an owner of both cars I can say I much prefer the F30 over the E90. There's room for improvement on the new car, but in my opinion it's a far superior product to the E90. Lastly I'd like to say to everybody that's been complaining about the F3X not living up to the E9X benchmark, you didn't have to purchase a F3X if you didn't like it. Nobody made you purchase a car you didn't like. You could have just as easily purchased the E9X of your dreams and saved a ton of money doing it too. Both cars are awesome, choose the one you want and enjoy it. Just one mans opinion.
+1 well said
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  #58  
Old 09-02-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_tegey View Post
I'd say that the ride height on the xDrive models needs to be addressed. The wheel gap is enormous and looks terrible. The standard "low rolling resistance tires" should be an option, not standard. While the "Eco" tires are quiet they just don't provide a ton of grip, which is great if you want to slide the car around, but is lousy if you truly want to be the most out if the car.
Noted, but I'm quite sure that "fuel economy" features are not "options" on our cars anymore as the EPA standards get more and more stringent. They are mandatory. You can always write to your Congressman.
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  #59  
Old 09-02-2013, 11:54 PM
NordicBob NordicBob is offline
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Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
My E90 with SS was awesome to drive. My F30 with optional 704 SS (it's not!) is still way too soft for me. I'm looking for opinions on H&R springs on F30s, if anyone can help out.

Roberta
What option is the "704 SS" for the F30 series? M-Sport suspension, DHP, etc? Has it been available since the beginning of the F30 run?

When you state that "(it's not!)", does that mean that you have it, or don't have it, but still way to soft? Please clarity. Thanks.
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  #60  
Old 09-03-2013, 05:22 AM
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SteVTEC SteVTEC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
Noted, but I'm quite sure that "fuel economy" features are not "options" on our cars anymore as the EPA standards get more and more stringent. They are mandatory. You can always write to your Congressman.
They literally can't make them like they used to.

"Eco" tires for EPA rather than some tires that actually have some grip.
Turbo 4-banger for EPA rather than a sweet Inline-6.
Completely numb electric power steering for EPA rather than hydraulic with classic BMW road feel.

What they didn't have to do...

Brakes that have lost their edge and "bite", because Americans don't like brake dust.
Overly loose suspension, yes. Corners well on smooth pavement, but even my non-Sport E93 felt tighter and a lot more connected than the F30 328xi loaner I had for two days. You have to go all the way up to the M-Sport line or mod the standard cars just to get the good brakes? What?? They're still fun and engaging cars to drive, but are nothing like the old ones. About the only thing that I felt was an improvement was the 8-speed automatic, and the rear passenger space comparing F30 to E90.

A lot of what made a BMW a BMW to me is now either optional, or not even available at any price!!!

I'm glad I bought both of our Bimmers when I did. Had originally intended to buy the new F10 5er in 2011 but just couldn't connect with the car and bought the E93 and then E70 X5 "last of breed". I feared I wasn't going to like any of the newer BMWs, and having sampled pretty much all of them now except for the new X5 (not in loaner fleets yet) that's pretty much been true.

Sigh. Going to love and cherish our two below for as long as possible I think. Our two make me feel special when I drive them. The newer ones are all nice but just kinda blah and don't inspire me to drop serious coin on them. Like a neighbor said, he had test driven an F10 528i and said it didn't feel any different or better to drive than the new Honda Accord, so he bought the Accord!

Hopefully BMW will rectify much of the above in future models.
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  #61  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:14 AM
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EddieB EddieB is offline
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I've had the privilege of driving this canyon since I was 16 years old--both motorcycles and cars. The F30 feels very good in these twisties, and the only significant nit is the runflats as compared to Michelin Sports. But even that isn't a deal breaker.

Haven't had the new 335i with DHP in there yet, but I'm sure it will be awesome as well.
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  #62  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:21 AM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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I have commented many times on similar threads. I had a 2007 E90 328i sport. When I got it, i felt it was almost undrivable with the run flats. I mean commuting in DC with the crappy roads for the first 3 weeks was just about unbearable. I got regular tires and the car became much better. Fast forward to my current F30. i think the problem (and here i can't comment on the X-drive F30s as I have never test drove one) is for those of you that didn't get the sportline or didn't get DHP. When I put mine in sport (which is 99% of the time) the car is awesome. Totally planted, crazy fast, zero body role that I can feel and I have full confidence in it to stay the line. it does even better when you drive at speed. What I am trying to say is maybe BMW with the different lines is trying to create different characteristics. The X-drive, even with the DHP might be too soft for some of you guys, especially if you compare it to the E90 X-drive. That I can't argue, never having owned a X-drive 3-series. Hell I can't even comment if the DHP system on the X-drive cars has different settings (maybe if one knows for sure they can comment).

But no way anyone can drive a Sportline F30 with DHP especially on "Sport" or "Sport +" settings and come up with comments like it has body role, its soft or worse it drives like an Altima.
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  #63  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:22 AM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordicBob View Post
What option is the "704 SS" for the F30 series? M-Sport suspension, DHP, etc? Has it been available since the beginning of the F30 run?

When you state that "(it's not!)", does that mean that you have it, or don't have it, but still way to soft? Please clarity. Thanks.
Part 704 is the Sport Suspension option that was available in Canada for the Sport Line F30s. Apparently it is now standard on that model in Canada. I'm not sure if it is or was optional in the U.S.

When I said "it's not", I meant that, in my opinion, it's not a true sport suspension. I paid $1,500 for the optional sport suspension on my E90 and that car handled like a dream. As far as I know, the $400 704 option on my F30 simply a lowers the body. My E90 could sail over speed bumps and I could hammer it around corners. My F30 is jarred harshly if I don't slow down to 5-10km/hr when going over speed bumps. It corners pretty well, but there's still too much lean for my taste.

Roberta
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  #64  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:24 AM
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Dr. 328xi Dr. 328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_tegey View Post
I'd say that the ride height on the xDrive models needs to be addressed. The wheel gap is enormous and looks terrible. The standard "low rolling resistance tires" should be an option, not standard. While the "Eco" tires are quiet they just don't provide a ton of grip, which is great if you want to slide the car around, but is lousy if you truly want to be the most out if the car.
I would say this is only an issue with the standard wheels. The 18s look just fine at the current ride height. I don't notice any unpleasant wheel gap on my sport line with xdrive. On the other hand, the 17s look small to me even without the xdrive. I think maybe the issue is the car should just come standard with 18s, and the "line" upgrades could just be "better" 18s rather than a size increase.
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  #65  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:24 AM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Andy6027 View Post
I feel fortunate that xenon lights come standard here in Canada. Hopefully they will follow suit in the US.
Leather is standard too on the 328s and higher models
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  #66  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:24 AM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I made a thread about my H&R swap.
Would you kindly point me to that thread. I can't seem to find it!

R
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  #67  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:28 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is offline
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

I just made the move from an E60 545 sport package to an F10 xDrive with DHP. I will admit that the old car felt like a weapon while the new one in Sport mode, merely feels tight.

But - I believe that for every person who bemoans the "softening" of the F10 and F30, there is more than one person who was turned off by how harsh the rides of the E-series cars were. This is the simple math we are dealing with.
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  #68  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:29 AM
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Dr. 328xi Dr. 328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
...i think the problem (and here i can't comment on the X-drive F30s as I have never test drove one) is for those of you that didn't get the sportline or didn't get DHP.
...
But no way anyone can drive a Sportline F30 with DHP especially on "Sport" or "Sport +" settings and come up with comments like it has body role, its soft or worse it drives like an Altima.
I agree with what you're saying. Furthermore, I'm very happy with the car (an xDrive) because it has far better than adequate handling and performance while still being a very comfortable daily driver.

I think the issue with what you're saying, and what a lot of hardcore BMW owners are lamenting, is that the new car requires sport line and DHP to be what they want it to be. In other words, the new ad campaign could be "The F30 3-series - BMW optional."

Personally, I like the fact that the car is capable of being multiple things to multiple drivers depending on build specs.
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  #69  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:44 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is offline
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

^ sounds right. And the reality is that for every person lamenting the softening of the current generation of BMWs, there is more than one person (in BMW's calculation) who would not have considered an E-chassis car because they were too harsh.
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  #70  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:15 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordicBob View Post
What option is the "704 SS" for the F30 series? M-Sport suspension, DHP, etc? Has it been available since the beginning of the F30 run?

When you state that "(it's not!)", does that mean that you have it, or don't have it, but still way to soft? Please clarity. Thanks.
704 is the standard mechanical M-Sport suspension on RWD Sport and MSport line cars in the US. '12 it was standard on the Sport RWD, '13-14, standard on the Sport and M-Sport.
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  #71  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:15 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
Would you kindly point me to that thread. I can't seem to find it!

R
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...551&highlight=
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  #72  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:29 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I agree with what you're saying. Furthermore, I'm very happy with the car (an xDrive) because it has far better than adequate handling and performance while still being a very comfortable daily driver.

I think the issue with what you're saying, and what a lot of hardcore BMW owners are lamenting, is that the new car requires sport line and DHP to be what they want it to be. In other words, the new ad campaign could be "The F30 3-series - BMW optional."

Personally, I like the fact that the car is capable of being multiple things to multiple drivers depending on build specs.
Aren't the outside diameters of the tires the same between the two different wheels sizes?
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  #73  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:38 AM
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Dr. 328xi Dr. 328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Aren't the outside diameters of the tires the same between the two different wheels sizes?
I don't know, to be honest. It could be all optical illusion, but the the 17s did not appear to fill the wheel wells the same as the 18s when I was looking at them side by side on the dealer lot. Could just be that the black rubber and the black space both combine as "negative space" to the eye.

They only stock xDrive 3er sedans at my dealer, though, so i know i was looking at cars with the same ride height and the 17s definitely looked to fill less space.
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  #74  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:40 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Aren't the outside diameters of the tires the same between the two different wheels sizes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I don't know, to be honest. It could be all optical illusion, but the the 17s did not appear to fill the wheel wells the same as the 18s when I was looking at them side by side on the dealer lot. Could just be that the black rubber and the black space both combine as "negative space" to the eye.

They only stock xDrive 3er sedans at my dealer, though, so i know i was looking at cars with the same ride height and the 17s definitely looked to fill less space.
When you +1 from a 17 to an 18" inch wheel, the outside diameter is unchanged, even going from the 17" 393 to the 19" 403m, that is why the speedo stays accurate. All of the F30 wheels come in about 26" outside diameter.
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  #75  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:57 AM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Good lord have we not beat this subject to death enough? I'll say a few things and I
ll try to keep it as short as possible but this subject irks the hell out of me.

First ive owned many BMW's before buying the F30. 2 E30's, 1 E34, 1 E46, 1 E90, 1 E60 and one F30. All of them great cars in their own regards. both E30's were AMAZING drivers cars, definantly 2 of the funnest cars ive ever owned. E34 was a boat but it had tons of torque and handled great. E46 was a 325xi sport, it handled well, looked good, was reliable, and comfortable. E90 was my first modern BMW. Got it CPO a couple years old off a lease. Nimble, taught steering, great engine noise, refined. E60 (still have this one) is the best, most reliable, sexiest BMW ive owned. A great road trip car, great dynamics, just the right options, sport suspension, great steering. All around perfect dual-use car. Then came the F30 (for my wife 320i sport).

Secondly, I concur with most everyones assumption/review of the F30... for about the first week of ownership. After that it just grows on you. You certainly cant judge this car just off a test drive or even a weekend loaner. Short and sweet of it? a properly equipped F30 (M suspension, Msteering wheel ect) makes it feel almost identical to the E46, im not joking. for those of you whom have owned a F30 and a E46 will know what im talking about. Honestly the F30 should have been the E46's replacement...

My First drive of a bottom bottom base no option 320i wasnt good. Low on power, sloppy in the turns, wind noise over 90mph and that God awful strange noise at over 130mph. I got home after a 3 hour trip and told my wife "i'm glad its yours is all im gonna say". Mind you this was a loaner while waiting for our order to be delivered. When we picked up my wifes car a month later we couldnt have been happier. 2013 black on black 320i sport. every option excpet sunroof and comfort access (not worth 3100 in my opinion). After owning it for a few months now I really really like it. The power is more than sufficent. The optional M suspension on the 320i is A MUST!! it handles amazingly, albeit a bit disconnected. What i mean by that is you may not feel the excitement or fun you did in older BMW's in the twisties but when you look down at your speedo through sharp turns you are pleasantly surprised. I've said this before but I'm sure a 320i with sport pkg would smoke my E60 530i on a track easily. Of course not a drag stip, but a track, definantly.

I've always felt those who hate the F30's so much either dont own one or any other modern bmw for that matter. Fact of the matter is F30s, from the 320i to the 335i, are selling at record paces. BMW has never sold so many cars in as short a period of time as they have since launching the F30/F10. They literally cant build them as fast as they're selling. That being said... a BS petition signed by non-confirmed F30 owners or anyone for that matter wont do anything. BMW wouldnt even bat an eye at it... it wouldnt even make it past a dealership General Manager. BMW north america is one of BMW's largest markets, over half i believe. HOWEVER, it is not their only market. BMW will not change they way they build cars becasue a few 30-40 somethings on some internet forum are bitching about steering feel. many people think BMW made an exception for north america by allowing M5's be sold with manual trannys. In europe its DSG only. yes BMW made a bit of an exception but that was for 2 reasons. more sales in thier biggest market and the fact that the US has very low speed limits. the only reason manuals are not offered in germany (for M5's) is becasue of heat at extremely high speeds for a long period of time. In the states this wouldnt be a problem, but for "Hans" on the autobahn, clutches and manual tranny run quite hot. anyway if your curious about that just google it. my whole point was for those of you (mostly jealous E90 owners) stop bashing the F30 dynamics... PLEASE.
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