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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:09 AM
Nefilim Nefilim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_tegey View Post
My F30 on the other hand has the same solid feel through the corners, all be it with a bit more body roll than my E90 did, but it feels great none the less. The F30 feels more nimble and it should, it's significantly lighter!
significantly lighter? very much comparable i'd say:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/57494...o-e90-and-e46/
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  #77  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:09 AM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
When you +1 from a 17 to an 18" inch wheel, the outside diameter is unchanged, even going from the 17" 393 to the 19" 403m, that is why the speedo stays accurate. All of the F30 wheels come in about 26" outside diameter.
.....what?????..... 17 inch wheels are 17 inch wheels, 18 inch wheels are 18 inch wheels, 19 inch wheels are 19 inch wheels... see a patern forming here? with tires installed on the wheels is what makes a difference. usually the bigger the wheel the shorter the sidewall ratio will be of the tire, so it will fit in the wheel well. not quite sure what you mean by F30 wheels are 26's... with tires maybe.
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  #78  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:11 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
I've always felt those who hate the F30's so much either dont own one or any other modern bmw for that matter. Fact of the matter is F30s, from the 320i to the 335i, are selling at record paces. BMW has never sold so many cars in as short a period of time as they have since launching the F30/F10. They literally cant build them as fast as they're selling. That being said... a BS petition signed by non-confirmed F30 owners or anyone for that matter wont do anything. BMW wouldnt even bat an eye at it... it wouldnt even make it past a dealership General Manager. BMW north america is one of BMW's largest markets, over half i believe. HOWEVER, it is not their only market. BMW will not change they way they build cars becasue a few 30-40 somethings on some internet forum are bitching about steering feel. many people think BMW made an exception for north america by allowing M5's be sold with manual trannys. In europe its DSG only. yes BMW made a bit of an exception but that was for 2 reasons. more sales in thier biggest market and the fact that the US has very low speed limits. the only reason manuals are not offered in germany (for M5's) is becasue of heat at extremely high speeds for a long period of time. In the states this wouldnt be a problem, but for "Hans" on the autobahn, clutches and manual tranny run quite hot. anyway if your curious about that just google it. my whole point was for those of you (mostly jealous E90 owners) stop bashing the F30 dynamics... PLEASE.
It's my understanding, due to customer feedback, BMW did change the steering feel of the E46 model. Perhaps they would be willing to do so for the F30.
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  #79  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:13 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
.....what?????..... 17 inch wheels are 17 inch wheels, 18 inch wheels are 18 inch wheels, 19 inch wheels are 19 inch wheels... see a patern forming here? with tires installed on the wheels is what makes a difference. usually the bigger the wheel the shorter the sidewall ratio will be of the tire, so it will fit in the wheel well. not quite sure what you mean by F30 wheels are 26's... with tires maybe.
You are incorrect in reading my reply as it quoted others who were not understanding aspect ratio etc.

You are confusing the wheel with the wheel/tire which is what I was referencing. TO BE MORE CLEAR...

The 17" or 18" refers to the whole inside the tire for the wheel itself, around that is the ASPECT RATIO, 225/50/17-the aspect ratio is the 50, or 50% of the width which is 225mm.

As you move from a 225/50/17 to a 225/45/18, the whole is larger for the larger wheel when going from 17-18", but the aspect ratio or sidewall decreases. This keeps the overall diameter to be the same. As I said, the overall diameter of most F30 setups is 26". To be clear-that is the tire overall diameter.
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Last edited by Jamesonsviggen; 09-03-2013 at 08:17 AM.
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  #80  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:21 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
You are incorrect in reading my reply as it quoted others who were not understanding aspect ratio etc.
I understand it. Which is why I made the post I did.
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  #81  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:24 AM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
It's my understanding, due to customer feedback, BMW did change the steering feel of the E46 model. Perhaps they would be willing to do so for the F30.
good point. but the E46 steering was changed to be lighter (soccer moms and teeny boppers were complaining). it was however still much stiffer than todays standard. my point was you get use to the F30 steering quickly, at least i did anyway. stiffening it up would not change how the car feels or handles... it would just be stiffer. i doubt they would change the complete design of the electric steering. maybe a "code" or some way-somehow providing less assistance would be in order. but switching back to hydralic i think is out of the question.
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  #82  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
good point. but the E46 steering was changed to be lighter (soccer moms and teeny boppers were complaining). it was however still much stiffer than todays standard. my point was you get use to the F30 steering quickly, at least i did anyway. stiffening it up would not change how the car feels or handles... it would just be stiffer. i doubt they would change the complete design of the electric steering. maybe a "code" or some way-somehow providing less assistance would be in order. but switching back to hydralic i think is out of the question.
I thought it was the other way around...they made it heavier. With that said I understand your overall point. In fact it's part of the foundation from which I've built my AWD versus RWD argument. As with most things it's not one being better / worse than the other. Just different.
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  #83  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:31 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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I understand it. Which is why I made the post I did.
I was not correcting you-you got it right, I was highlighting Dr. 328xi's post in reply to you-quoting both of you gave the background to my reply.
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  #84  
Old 09-03-2013, 09:51 AM
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I'm just glad I did the research and got the DHP. I think my F30 drives pretty damn good. I have owned an E90.
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  #85  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:41 AM
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I'm just glad I did the research and got the DHP. I think my F30 drives pretty damn good. I have owned an E90.
I got a second chance and ordered DHP on my present ride.
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  #86  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by m_tegey View Post
I'd say that the ride height on the xDrive models needs to be addressed. The wheel gap is enormous and looks terrible.
It's as if the engineers at BMW who specified the spring rate/height screwed up, right? Lets extrapolate a bit... you buy an AWD vehicle then complain about the way it looks?
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  #87  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:33 AM
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How many times are we gonna beat the same subject in to the ground. Has anything new been said? The same people that like the F30 still do and the same people that dislike to hate the F30 still do.

Furby, I assume you got to test drive an xDrive F30 before you bought yours and did your ED, correct? Also, you are a frequent contributing member of this forum so I can't imagine the way the xDrive handles caught you off guard. As there are numerous threads that talk about it being the softest suspension of all of the F30's no matter the line.

Can't wait for the 20th thread that talks about the same thing again and again and again...
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  #88  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:34 AM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwesq View Post
I'm just glad I did the research and got the DHP. I think my F30 drives pretty damn good. I have owned an E90.
I had to pick between a Graphite F10 with DHP and a Titanium one without it. I kind of wanted Titanium, since you never see it on F10s and it looks great - but I went with the Graphite DHP.
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  #89  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:40 AM
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How many times are we gonna beat the same subject in to the ground. Has anything new been said? The same people that like the F30 still do and the same people that dislike to hate the F30 still do.

Furby, I assume you got to test drive an xDrive F30 before you bought yours and did your ED, correct? Also, you are a frequent contributing member of this forum so I can't imagine the way the xDrive handles caught you off guard. As there are numerous threads that talk about it being the softest suspension of all of the F30's no matter the line.

Can't wait for the 20th thread that talks about the same thing again and again and again...
Let's talk about the Bangle Butt
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  #90  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:42 AM
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How many times are we gonna beat the same subject in to the ground. Has anything new been said? The same people that like the F30 still do and the same people that dislike to hate the F30 still do.
Definition of First World Problems?

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Last edited by Dr. 328xi; 09-03-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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  #91  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:47 AM
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Definition of First World Problems?



Poor us.
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  #92  
Old 09-03-2013, 05:54 PM
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Thumbs up

IMHO post #40 says it all.
cheers
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  #93  
Old 09-03-2013, 09:15 PM
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My F30 335i Sport with Sport Suspension on H&R Sport Springs can out manoeuvre my E46 330ci any day of the week.

H&R Sport Springs FTW.
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  #94  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
How many times are we gonna beat the same subject in to the ground. Has anything new been said? The same people that like the F30 still do and the same people that dislike to hate the F30 still do.

Furby, I assume you got to test drive an xDrive F30 before you bought yours and did your ED, correct? Also, you are a frequent contributing member of this forum so I can't imagine the way the xDrive handles caught you off guard. As there are numerous threads that talk about it being the softest suspension of all of the F30's no matter the line.

Can't wait for the 20th thread that talks about the same thing again and again and again...
Crazy huh? Same thing happens with each new model. Seen this movie before

I agree with you though. Research it, buy it, and then complain about it
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  #95  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:56 AM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
I've always felt those who hate the F30's so much either dont own one or any other modern bmw for that matter. Fact of the matter is F30s, from the 320i to the 335i, are selling at record paces. BMW has never sold so many cars in as short a period of time as they have since launching the F30/F10. They literally cant build them as fast as they're selling...

...my whole point was for those of you (mostly jealous E90 owners) stop bashing the F30 dynamics... PLEASE.
The fact that they're selling like hotcakes is irrelevant to enthusiasts, just the way that a particular cheap wine may outsell a connoisseur's wine. It doesn't make our opinions less valid. If we've bothered to post on this forum, it's because we like talking about the little things that BMW offers in its cars (or doesn't) that differentiates it from other manufacturers. I agree that the whining of a few enthusiasts is not going to make BMW change anything about its cars. Clearly their studies indicated that the average North American buyer is looking for an automatic tranny in a car that has a softer ride. When I bought my 2000 3 series, the dealer told me that manual transmission vehicles accounted for over 80% of their 3 Series sales. When I bought my 2013 in May, I was told (by the same dealer) that manual transmissions account for under 10% of their 3 Series sales. Obviously the profile of the "typical" 3 Series driver has changed in the last decade and a bit.

As for the E90......I had one up until late July. It handled MUCH better than the F30 Sport Line with optional SS and as a result I am investigating putting H&R springs in the F30. I don't think I would be considered a "jealous" E90 owner, simply an experienced one who can make a valid comparison between the old and the new generations of 3 Series BMWs.

R

Last edited by RobertaZ; 09-04-2013 at 09:18 AM.
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  #96  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:22 AM
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Crazy huh? Same thing happens with each new model. Seen this movie before

I agree with you though. Research it, buy it, and then complain about it
Right, then after you buy it basically complaining that you got ripped off because BMW should of included this or that standard. Channeling what BJ has said multiple times: an F30 (328) can be a sub 40,000 car if you want it that way. If you want all of the goodies and the handling of the past you need to pony up to 50k plus. Also, like BJ has stated, BMW is a business with a wide range of clients they trying to attract and please. Thus the reason for the large spread of options and prices of the 3 series. Unfortunately, it sounds like they fell short for the hardcore enthusiast crowd. As has also been said, hopefully the new 1/2 series cars fix these problems and become like the 3 series cars of old that you guys all loved.

I think the DHP package for a thousand bucks is a steal for what you get. Have you priced out similar aftermarket systems? You get in to the 5-6k territory pretty quick when you include installation and then you have to worry about a non-stock system playing nice with a highly computerized car, warranty etc...

Furb, not to keep picking on you, but you special ordered your car and went to Munich to pick this up. I'm guessing you spent close to 55-60k for the car and trip costs. Why didn't you add DHP for one more grand?
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  #97  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:46 AM
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When I bought my 2000 3 series, the dealer told me that manual transmission vehicles accounted for over 80% of their 3 Series sales. When I bought my 2013 in May, I was told (by the same dealer) that manual transmissions account for under 10% of their 3 Series sales. Obviously the profile of the "typical" 3 Series driver has changed in the last decade and a bit.
I think that's only half the story. The other half is the difference in transmissions themselves. The automatic I had in 2000 (not a BMW) was a crappy 4-speed...back in the day when flooring it meant you went into the "passing gear" (AKA second gear). Performance was miserable compared to a manual. With the current 7 and 8 speed autos on many luxury brand cars (even the Ford Fusion now comes with a pretty slick 6-speed manual), the performance argument is less relevant. Additionally, the fuel economy argument is gone as most new automatics are equal to or more efficient than corresponding manuals. This leaves the final argument for a manual to be the simple joy of driving a manual - a great reason to buy one, but a smaller percentage of the population.

Quote:
Reasons to buy a manual in 2000
  • Enjoy driving a manual over an automatic
  • More fuel efficiency
  • Better performance

Reasons to buy a manual in 2013
  • Enjoy driving a manual over an automatic
The automatics have caught up to and surpassed the manuals in many ways, and the buying patterns have shifted accordingly. I, for one, couldn't wait to get out the automatic I was driving in 2000 (which was purchased used and simply too good of a deal to pass on), but when the time came to replace it and I drove my first DSG transmission, I opted for the DSG rather than the manual and never regretted it. I have the 8AT sport transmission now, and I don't regret it either. I think I will be sad to see manuals completely gone if/when that happens, but I doubt I'll ever buy another one myself...
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  #98  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post

Of course BMW cares and there is always room for improvement - its nonsensical to think otherwise, however, regarding a petition, one really needs to recognize that an enthusiast should have some level of awareness, and consequently, needs to take some measure of personal responsibility. I assume buyers of F30s on this forum test drove the car before buying it. After test driving my 328xi, I understood it was not equivalent to my M3 in terms of handling but I did not want another M3. I wanted a daily driver that was fast economical comfy and compliant - in short, a car that will allow me to cover a lot of ground in a safe efficient manner. So far - my 328xi Sport-line is proving ideal.
How should an enthusiast do so? I was at five dealers prior to buying, only ONE had an m-sport. It wasn't with x-drive. So if you don't have an option to try it out, how would you know? On top of that, how much feel can you get on a 1-2 mile test drive. Simply put, the test drives don't even come close to scratching the surface, let alone allowing you to get good report for the feel of the car.

The overall point of this - the e9x had something going, and the pendulum was on the harsh/firm side, and now it's completely on the other side - floaty/soft. There is a happy medium, and they totally skipped it. Their "answer" was to make a DHP option, and even DHP in sport is not the same as what e9x previously had.
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I agree with furby
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Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #99  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
We'll see. The F30 "steering feel" has been thoroughly trashed by the automotive press (and me), What were they thinking of?...as if Munich threw away their "legacy" manual.

What next? A front wheel drive M3?
e9x - no sway when driving on the road
f3x - lots of sway when driving on the road. Constantly going side-to-side. It needs to be more stiff.

The change to the steering wheel was, again, in favor of people who complained it was too hard to turn the steering wheel when the car was parked.
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I agree with furby
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Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #100  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
BMW has already addressed this. Regrettably, you chose the softest variant of the F30 suspension:
No they haven't BJ. They have actually softened up the suspension from the previous gen. To remind you, I came from a non-m-sport with x-drive. My suspension is much softer now then it was before.
Also, M-sport + X-drive (two most expensive packages) = softest suspension unless you get an additional.

Again - what is available today is worse off then what was available yesterday. They should fix this, and a way to fix it is to offer DHP as standard to all vehicles. Even then, DHP on is not the same as e9x
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The XDrive Suspension without DHP is the softest and loosest of the bunch. In order for BMW to offer the 3 Series to a very wide audience, people expecting to pay $30,000 to $60,000 for the same car, BMW had to allow for a very wide assortment of options and packages.
Who is getting a BMW at $30,000? Even with incentives, and ED you cannot get this card for $30,000, let alone an m-sport


Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
It is not a 'petition' that is needed. Rather an understanding that when you take a car designed to be a best-in-class luxury sport sedan at $50,000 and strip it down you're going to lose a lot. In the old days, the tight suspension and legendary handling were standard equipment; now you have to pay for it. Strip the GPS and the leather, no worries. Strip the Sport line, strip the DHP, don't opt for the M-Performance, it's on the buyer, not the manufacturer.

BJ
There it is, luxury sport-sedan...it used to be sport luxury vehicle. The ruined the steering/suspension to make it an option. They took a step backward and said "pay to get what you had". It seriously makes me consider, what should I do when the lease is up in 3 years.
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I agree with furby
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Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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