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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 09-04-2013, 01:13 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
e9x - no sway when driving on the road
f3x - lots of sway when driving on the road. Constantly going side-to-side. It needs to be more stiff.

The change to the steering wheel was, again, in favor of people who complained it was too hard to turn the steering wheel when the car was parked.
Ideally the suspension should provide
a comfortable ride, be able to smooth out road imperfections and flat cornering. With the technology available today this is relatively easy to achieve. In the case of the F30 it should be a matter of fine tuning the spring and damper rated as the basic suspension geometry should be more than adequate.

ALAIK Koni FSD dampers, which wonders on the E9x, are not yet available for the F30 but I suspect that they would solve the body lean issue with no deterioration of ride quality


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  #102  
Old 09-04-2013, 01:48 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
When I bought my 2000 3 series, the dealer told me that manual transmission vehicles accounted for over 80% of their 3 Series sales. When I bought my 2013 in May, I was told (by the same dealer) that manual transmissions account for under 10% of their 3 Series sales. Obviously the profile of the "typical" 3 Series driver has changed in the last decade and a bit.


R
Your dealer was wrong. It's really that simple lol.

In 2000, more people were buying manuals. That is a fact. But it was maybe 15%. The numbers have gone down(though a slight up tick in the last year or so they say) so maybe it's down to 9-10%, the figures are out there. Saying it went from 80% of 3 series sales to 10% is simply false. Even in 2000, there were not that many manual trans 3 series on the lots. It is still the case today, but worse.
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  #103  
Old 09-04-2013, 03:19 PM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
e9x - no sway when driving on the road
f3x - lots of sway when driving on the road. Constantly going side-to-side. It needs to be more stiff.
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  #104  
Old 09-04-2013, 03:22 PM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Your dealer was wrong. It's really that simple lol.

In 2000, more people were buying manuals. That is a fact. But it was maybe 15%. The numbers have gone down(though a slight up tick in the last year or so they say) so maybe it's down to 9-10%, the figures are out there. Saying it went from 80% of 3 series sales to 10% is simply false. Even in 2000, there were not that many manual trans 3 series on the lots. It is still the case today, but worse.
My dealer was not "wrong", as my dealer knew exactly how many of each that he sold. He wasn't quoting BMW sales. He was quoting his dealership's sales. The dealership is in a wealthier part of town, with a rapidly growing part of the population being a part of a group that would not typically be called, ahem, enthusiasts.
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  #105  
Old 09-04-2013, 03:40 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
My dealer was not "wrong", as my dealer knew exactly how many of each that he sold. He wasn't quoting BMW sales. He was quoting his dealership's sales. The dealership is in a wealthier part of town, with a rapidly growing part of the population being a part of a group that would not typically be called, ahem, enthusiasts.
Sounds like BS to me.

Only maybe with M cars in '00(due to there being no SMG) would you see a dealer sell 80% with manuals.

But hey, if you want to believe in EVERYTHING your dealer tells you, go for it.
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  #106  
Old 09-04-2013, 04:39 PM
Trey100 Trey100 is offline
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

For those talking about the increase in roll - C&D did a comparison in the October issue between the E9x and F3x. I don't have the copy in front of me but if I recall, the measures roll was not more in F3x. I thought that was interesting. Hopefully I am remembering correctly. I had an E90 RWD sport suspension and now ordered an AWD M Sport with DHP. In my test drives, I didn't notice the additional body roll. I did notice the looser steering.


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  #107  
Old 09-04-2013, 04:43 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
How should an enthusiast do so? I was at five dealers prior to buying, only ONE had an m-sport. It wasn't with x-drive. So if you don't have an option to try it out, how would you know? On top of that, how much feel can you get on a 1-2 mile test drive. Simply put, the test drives don't even come close to scratching the surface, let alone allowing you to get good report for the feel of the car.

The overall point of this - the e9x had something going, and the pendulum was on the harsh/firm side, and now it's completely on the other side - floaty/soft. There is a happy medium, and they totally skipped it. Their "answer" was to make a DHP option, and even DHP in sport is not the same as what e9x previously had.
I agree;

- Typical "test" drives are more often than not less than revealing,

- Moreover, M Sports are usually ordered cars and few dealers have them on their lots,

- DHP is almost universally a customer ordered option really rare to find on a dealer's lot to test.

Furthermore, being a repeat BMW customer, you expect all BMWs to come with a modicum of "driver satisfaction" as standard equipment.

In general, I believe Xenon lights should be standard on all BMWs - likewise DHP with the exception of M Sport customers who opt for standard sport suspension - besides the obvious benefits to customers, both would give BMWNA great bragging points.


I have owned 8 BMWs and consider myself an enthusiast I do read and take into consideration reviews on Bimmerfest. Recently, I had one open Saturday available to buy a car, I was not shopping for another M3, but for a fast economical all weather car that would still be fun given I am driving more than 2K miles a month. I thought I was going to buy some F30 335i variant.

Having read all the bad press on the F30 328 on Bimmerfest I was preconditioned not to like it. On a whim I tested a 328xi Sportline and quite frankly was astonished in a good way I test drove it again and again then test drove it back to back with the car I originally thought I might purchase a 335i 6MT Sportline. Neither car had DHP. Both cars offered very different driving experiences.

Regarding driver satisfaction yeah, I am pleased with my 328xi in terms of comfort compliancy economy and yes fun. The more I drive the car the more I appreciate its depth of engineering excellence. On a recent rather challenging drive to W VA I encountered a number of fast sweepers and tight switchbacks. Generally, I very much appreciate the compliancy of the car, but on this trip, I saw and felt what many have commented on namely, a feeling that the front end is not perfectly damped. That is, if you hit a bump, you see the front end slightly oscillate, but when encountering a more severe imperfection - surprisingly for just a moment you feel a second momentary up-down motion. However as you push the car - the car just sticks and sticks despite the slightly unsettled motion. Bottom line - I can drive the car very quickly, safely and in comfort.

My 328xi is not my M3, but I find it satisfying in the twisties. Is it an autocrosser no way but it feels every bit like a capable BMW despite its foibles. I am not sure why it works as well as it does but it works and I am enjoying it. If DHP were available to me - I would have bought it - I like it on my X3 M Sport 3.5. Fix the front shocks OK an obvious easy fix but my point is even out of the box the car delivers a satisfying experience. I feel no overwhelming compunction to address the issue on my particular car.

So for those who say the F30 is not a true BMW I say I do not agree. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" is a moving target subject to changing priorities, legalities, and tech. I consider the F30 to be very much an "Ultimate Driving Machine" for the world of 2013. Driver satisfaction came standard on my 328xi.
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  #108  
Old 09-04-2013, 05:07 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is offline
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
The fact that they're selling like hotcakes is irrelevant to enthusiasts, just the way that a particular cheap wine may outsell a connoisseur's wine. It doesn't make our opinions less valid.
Of course it doesn't. Many of the critics, though, go beyond saying "I prefer the way BMW used to make cars over the way they do now" and say "BMW has made some terrible choices and has lost their way as a company." Those are very different claims, the former being a legitimate opinion and the latter being provably incorrect by any reasonable measure.
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  #109  
Old 09-04-2013, 05:56 PM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

I agree the handling is amazing I just purchased a 2006 330xi and I absolutely love the handling !


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  #110  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:05 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
How should an enthusiast do so? I was at five dealers prior to buying, only ONE had an m-sport. It wasn't with x-drive. So if you don't have an option to try it out, how would you know? On top of that, how much feel can you get on a 1-2 mile test drive. Simply put, the test drives don't even come close to scratching the surface, let alone allowing you to get good report for the feel of the car.

The overall point of this - the e9x had something going, and the pendulum was on the harsh/firm side, and now it's completely on the other side - floaty/soft. There is a happy medium, and they totally skipped it. Their "answer" was to make a DHP option, and even DHP in sport is not the same as what e9x previously had.
Few people want the bias that a Sport E90 had. I'm not sure I want another car with the busy suspension of my base 17" wheel 2011 E90 that has improved shocks over previous models. IMO the Sport Line F30 has a great suspension. It has higher cornering limits than the ZSP E90 and is far roe comfortable. It rolls more in turns and of course the EPS is also a negative but it's a far better compromise. But if the gauge of one's experience with the F30 is an xDrive model, it's quite disappointing. DHP is required on that model. The truth is, 95% of 3 series buyers do not care.
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  #111  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:08 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Sounds like BS to me.

Only maybe with M cars in '00(due to there being no SMG) would you see a dealer sell 80% with manuals.

But hey, if you want to believe in EVERYTHING your dealer tells you, go for it.
I agree. I seriously doubt that in 2000 80% of 3 series at one US dealer were MT. In fact I'd bet my car that's not true. And nearly all BMW dealers are in wealthy areas. BMW hasn't been an enthusiast targeted car company since the 1970's.
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  #112  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:14 PM
m_tegey m_tegey is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I would say this is only an issue with the standard wheels. The 18s look just fine at the current ride height. I don't notice any unpleasant wheel gap on my sport line with xdrive. On the other hand, the 17s look small to me even without the xdrive. I think maybe the issue is the car should just come standard with 18s, and the "line" upgrades could just be "better" 18s rather than a size increase.
I have a 2013 328xi M Sport with 18" wheels, the gap even with the 18's is horrendous.
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  #113  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:20 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is offline
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Few people want the bias that a Sport E90 had.
Also true of the sport package RWD E60 cars. They were admirable handlers but the experience was not for everyone. Ask my wife.
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  #114  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:29 PM
m_tegey m_tegey is offline
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Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
It's as if the engineers at BMW who specified the spring rate/height screwed up, right? Lets extrapolate a bit... you buy an AWD vehicle then complain about the way it looks?
I find it interesting that Audi manages to keep the wheel gap clean on the A4 Quattro is all. I'm sorry that I like my cars to have minimal wheel gap. The xDrive 3 series seems to be the only BMW with this ugly wheel gap issue.
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  #115  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:44 PM
m_tegey m_tegey is offline
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Originally Posted by Nefilim View Post
significantly lighter? very much comparable i'd say:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/57494...o-e90-and-e46/
I apologize. While the link you posted doesn't have the xDrive model figures, you're right it's not a massive difference. Still with the F30 328xi weighing 3,595lbs vs. the E90 328xi at 3,790 you can feel that 200lb difference.
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  #116  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:02 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I agree. I seriously doubt that in 2000 80% of 3 series at one US dealer were MT. In fact I'd bet my car that's not true. And nearly all BMW dealers are in wealthy areas. BMW hasn't been an enthusiast targeted car company since the 1970's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
My dealer was not "wrong", as my dealer knew exactly how many of each that he sold. He wasn't quoting BMW sales. He was quoting his dealership's sales.
I wouldn't have been quite so strident arguing with Roberta as Michael and James have been, nevertheless I agree with them that 80% MT is (and was) never a reality.

I just went to cars.com and searched for ALL BMW models in 2000. 606 were returned, 167 were MT, 376 were AT, 10 were Steptronic, and 53 were unknown. 167 is almost 28%. Even if all the unknowns were MT it would only be 36%. Now, 1) we currently conjecture that MT cars don't change hands very often, and 2) the dealers listing a car as MT sometimes count paddles/steptronic as MT, and 3) 3-series have always had more MT than other models. But the reality is that nothing is going to get that figure anywhere close to 80%. Or 50% for that matter.

If you expand the search to '76 - '99, you get 1163 total cars, 728 of which are AT. That's 63% auto. I'm sorry, but that sales guy was on drugs.
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  #117  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:17 PM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

I don't think that BMW would want to spend money to satisfy our current needs right now.


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  #118  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:18 PM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Sounds like BS to me.

Only maybe with M cars in '00(due to there being no SMG) would you see a dealer sell 80% with manuals.

But hey, if you want to believe in EVERYTHING your dealer tells you, go for it.
He had nothing to gain by imparting that info. I had already bought the car.
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  #119  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:19 PM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
....That's 63% auto. I'm sorry, but that sales guy was on drugs.
Hey! Maybe I was too!

R
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  #120  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by vern View Post
IMHO post #40 says it all.
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IMHO post #42 says it all
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  #121  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:28 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
He had nothing to gain by imparting that info. I had already bought the car.
After buying my first car as a kid, I learned that a lot of things from a dealerships mouth are from their nether regions.
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  #122  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:39 PM
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Suspension Feeling Loss - Should we Petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Right, then after you buy it basically complaining that you got ripped off because BMW should of included this or that standard. Channeling what BJ has said multiple times: an F30 (328) can be a sub 40,000 car if you want it that way. If you want all of the goodies and the handling of the past you need to pony up to 50k plus. Also, like BJ has stated, BMW is a business with a wide range of clients they trying to attract and please. Thus the reason for the large spread of options and prices of the 3 series. Unfortunately, it sounds like they fell short for the hardcore enthusiast crowd. As has also been said, hopefully the new 1/2 series cars fix these problems and become like the 3 series cars of old that you guys all loved.

I think the DHP package for a thousand bucks is a steal for what you get. Have you priced out similar aftermarket systems? You get in to the 5-6k territory pretty quick when you include installation and then you have to worry about a non-stock system playing nice with a highly computerized car, warranty etc...

Furb, not to keep picking on you, but you special ordered your car and went to Munich to pick this up. I'm guessing you spent close to 55-60k for the car and trip costs. Why didn't you add DHP for one more grand?
Because DHP is inferior to the BMW enthusiasts hence why they have the M performance suspension that deletes the DHP option if it was previously installed and keeps the factory warranty as it's designed by who else other than the M division of BMW.

Just an FYI, an M Sport 328i with the M performance suspension (port installed) can be had for $45K otd, so don't smoke the pipe BJ sells you. We've argued over this for far too long with the BS status of the BMW brand thrown in.


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  #123  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:49 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by m_tegey View Post
I apologize. While the link you posted doesn't have the xDrive model figures, you're right it's not a massive difference. Still with the F30 328xi weighing 3,595lbs vs. the E90 328xi at 3,790 you can feel that 200lb difference.
I don't know where you got that figure for the E90. A 328i E90 xDrive is listed at 3605 pounds with MT and about 3680 with AT.
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  #124  
Old 09-04-2013, 09:05 PM
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EddieB EddieB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av98 View Post
Because DHP is inferior to the BMW enthusiasts hence why they have the M performance suspension that deletes the DHP option if it was previously installed and keeps the factory warranty as it's designed by who else other than the M division of BMW.

Just an FYI, an M Sport 328i with the M performance suspension (port installed) can be had for $45K otd, so don't smoke the pipe BJ sells you. We've argued over this for far too long with the BS status of the BMW brand thrown in.


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I'm quite happy with DHP having come from an M3.
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  #125  
Old 09-04-2013, 09:17 PM
m_tegey m_tegey is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I don't know where you got that figure for the E90. A 328i E90 xDrive is listed at 3605 pounds with MT and about 3680 with AT.
You're absolutely correct. I appolgize I was looking at the gvwr. I stand corrected sir.
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