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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:22 AM
johndugaro johndugaro is offline
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Incorrect Exhaut Fluid Message!

I was driving along on the highway with my new 2013 X5d with only 500 miles on the odo when "Incorrect Exhaust Fluid" popped up on the display with a warning that I had 200 miles to run until the vehicle would not be able to start.
After about 10 miles, the message went away.
I will take it in for service but I was just wondering if anyone has seen this before.
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:04 PM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is online now
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Maybe they forgot to fill up the tank during PDI, so it's throwing a false signal. Go to the dealer. Easy fix.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2013, 09:05 AM
tribecaX5 tribecaX5 is offline
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I've been having the same problem. This is the 4th time that has happened and BMW of Manhattan has no clue whats going on. Two weeks ago they kept the car for a full week and supposedly fixed it. Drove it for 50 miles and check engine light came on with the message "Exhaust fluid incorrect ! Range 200mls - Incorrect diesel fluid added. Please note that the remaining driving range! If driving range reaches 0 miles (km), engine start will not be possible. ". Then car starts counting down the miles. Lucky for me, I was attending a wedding about 90miles out so I made it home just in time.

Whats shocking to me is a BMW foreman telling me that he has no idea what that means and that they've never seen that message before. The kept taking photos of the message. The fourth time in 2 months. They topped the fluids and all that. Tickets show that they worked on some NOx sensor all three previous visits and reset the system hoping the message wont come back. Dropped the car off again this morning. Bmw serviceman did say "we feel so embarrassed" as soon as he saw me.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2013, 06:36 PM
shorton540 shorton540 is offline
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Incorrect Exhaut Fluid Message!

I had the same issue. Drove the vehicle for another 80 miles, then on the way to the dealer to drop it off, the warning went away. Drove it around all day thinking it would reilluminate, but it never did. Since I was in need of an oil change anyway, I scheduled one later in the week, and a DEF top off to boot. It took two quarts of DEF, so it was low. I assumed the message was a snafu way of the car really just reading low DEF. I dunno. Gremlins?! Only happened once in the last 15,000 miles. (But I have 93,000 on it and it runs like a charm if I ignore the idiot lights!)


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  #5  
Old 10-09-2013, 01:54 PM
jashearer jashearer is offline
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I would think the dealer would do a flush of the system. It would appear that the sensor is picking up a reading outside of normal range for the required fluid.

There is a sensor to detect if some jack bag refills the tank with water or some other fluid (washer, diesel, coolant, etc) to try to get the low fluid message to go away. EPA mandated I'm sure.

My first diagnosis would involve a flush and refill, as that's cheap, then I would move onto a replacement of the sensor itself, which is probably a multi sensor that also reads temp and level, so probably not cheap.

But I use common sense, and typically your local dealer doesn't understand that concept. Seems more logical to just take a picture with their camera phone, send it to Germany and wait for instructions.

Jay
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2013, 07:10 AM
johndugaro johndugaro is offline
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An update on my initial post. After seeing the message at 500 miles, it went away after 10 miles of driving and I haven't seen it again. My X5 now has 3000 miles on the odo.
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  #7  
Old 10-12-2013, 03:27 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndugaro View Post
An update on my initial post. After seeing the message at 500 miles, it went away after 10 miles of driving and I haven't seen it again. My X5 now has 3000 miles on the odo.
BMW introductory documentation said this about the "incorrect fluid" message:

-----------------------------
If the system is filled with an incorrect medium, this will become apparent after several hundred miles (kilometers) later by elevated nitrogen oxide values in the exhaust gas despite adequate injection of the supposed urea-water solution. The system recognizes an incorrect medium when certain limits are exceeded. From this point on, a warning and shut-down scenario is also initiated that allows a remaining range of 200 mls.
------------------------------

Based on that description, it would appear that the determination of "incorrect" fluid is done indirectly, i.e., if the system says fluid is being injected but the NOx level is not being reduced, it must be incorrect DEF fluid in the system.

To my mind this could also result from a problem with the SCR converter or the NOx sensor(s), and not necessarily incorrect fluid.

As an aside, the two NOx sensors on my 2010 X5 were replaced under warranty this Spring at around 36,000 miles, with a parts cost of $381 per sensor plus labor. In my case I got a CEL/SES and no message. In talking with a few over-the-road semi drivers in the past year I heard that NOx sensor failure is a not un common issue on the new truck diesels with SCR systems.

I've always found it rather odd that on BMW's you can have an active CEL/SES light on and when you check the idrive check control section it will show "all systems OK." Seems like there is a lack of communication between the idrive system and other parts of the vehicle, e.g., if the CEL/SES light is on, all systems are certainly not OK!
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  #8  
Old 10-12-2013, 05:26 PM
tribecaX5 tribecaX5 is offline
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They're still working on the car. Will post an update. They gave me a loaner X1. Off the topic a bit, I really dont understand the idea of making an X1. I guess there is a market for everything.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2013, 08:43 PM
johndugaro johndugaro is offline
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Hope they figure it out...an engine fault message that effectively disables your vehicle in 200 miles doesn't make any sense.
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2013, 10:51 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
BMW introductory documentation said this about the "incorrect fluid" message:

-----------------------------
If the system is filled with an incorrect medium, this will become apparent after several hundred miles (kilometers) later by elevated nitrogen oxide values in the exhaust gas despite adequate injection of the supposed urea-water solution. The system recognizes an incorrect medium when certain limits are exceeded. From this point on, a warning and shut-down scenario is also initiated that allows a remaining range of 200 mls.
------------------------------

Based on that description, it would appear that the determination of "incorrect" fluid is done indirectly, i.e., if the system says fluid is being injected but the NOx level is not being reduced, it must be incorrect DEF fluid in the system.

To my mind this could also result from a problem with the SCR converter or the NOx sensor(s), and not necessarily incorrect fluid.
Bingo.
Such a poor design given the lack of robustness in their system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post

As an aside, the two NOx sensors on my 2010 X5 were replaced under warranty this Spring at around 36,000 miles, with a parts cost of $381 per sensor plus labor. In my case I got a CEL/SES and no message. In talking with a few over-the-road semi drivers in the past year I heard that NOx sensor failure is a not un common issue on the new truck diesels with SCR systems.
Same with mine, but add the SCR cat too at ~$2900 plus labor, total 4500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
I've always found it rather odd that on BMW's you can have an active CEL/SES light on and when you check the idrive check control section it will show "all systems OK." Seems like there is a lack of communication between the idrive system and other parts of the vehicle, e.g., if the CEL/SES light is on, all systems are certainly not OK!
SO annoying. Apparently we are not supposed to worry our pretty little heads over things like CELs. just tire pressure and when to get the car to an SAV center to spend money on overpriced maintenance....


Quote:
Originally Posted by johndugaro View Post
Hope they figure it out...an engine fault message that effectively disables your vehicle in 200 miles doesn't make any sense.
DO keep in mind tbat the car will NOT be 'disabled while driving'. You can drive 1000 miles after it gets to zero....just DONT turn off the engine, it wont restart.
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  #11  
Old 10-15-2013, 11:42 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
SO annoying. Apparently we are not supposed to worry our pretty little heads over things like CELs. just tire pressure and when to get the car to an SAV center to spend money on overpriced maintenance...

Yess, it would seem to be child's play to enable the system that controls the SES/CEL light to tell the idrive info system whenever the SES is lighted, and if it is yellow or red. Then, at a minimum, the check control should display the owner's manual boilerplate language of what to do about an SES light.

Further irritation is that in spite of the claims of many BMW techs, the BMW system can erase any record of some SES/CEL illuminations if the condition goes away, e.g., I was getting a yellow SES light on and off for months and the dealer service would claim "no record of SES light, could not duplicate."

Finally I got the vehicle into service within a couple of days of the yellow SES light before it went off, and they were able to retrieve the code saying the NOx sensor was bad. I trust the service tech and believe in the prior instances the code was erased from memory when the condition went away.

Frankly, I would think the EPA would have issues with a vehicle getting intermittent emissions errors, and then erasing all memory of the emissions code when the condition went away on it's own. I wonder if the EPA knows BMW has programmed their vehicles to do this? Note that I have no problem with the SES illumination going away if the condition corrects itself, but do have an issue with removing the record of the illumination and code from the vehicle's memory.

When my battery was obviously failing I got an idrive messages which said something like "Major electrical system failure -- continued operation not possible. Pull to side of road when safe and contact your service center" when I was driving to the dealer. By the time I found a safe place to stop, the message was gone. When taken to the dealer there was no record of the message stored in the vehicle memory. To my mind, a message of a major electrical system failure which says to stop driving the vehicle should leave some sort of record that the technician could pull.

In the end, after a lot of bitching, the dealer replaced the obviously failing battery (which the technician load tested and showed a clear failure) and that resolved all the problems, including a couple of no starts, that I had been having for months. At the next visit the service writer (a good guy) said "oh by the way, BMW NA rejected the battery replacement claim that fixed your problems and stuck the dealership with the cost."

So I have some sympathy for the service departments/dealerships, as BMW NA apparently treats their dealers no better than their customers.
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2013, 05:45 PM
wreedz71 wreedz71 is offline
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Did they ever fix it?
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2013, 09:22 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreedz71 View Post
Did they ever fix it?
I'm being presumptous, but are you looking at buying a used BMW diesel and ar concerned with the DEF system? If so, probably worth asking folks in general.... For example I had a 2010 that was a lemon- 60+ days in the shop in 18 months. And a 2012 that never had a single issue in 30k miles. So if you went with my threads on the 2010 you'd be negaitve. And if you went with my posts on the 2012 there'd be none as I dont post "car is still trouble free'...

Anyway, looking at threads where people post problems is a tough way to gain perspective.

GL

A
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:48 AM
wreedz71 wreedz71 is offline
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I am just curious. Is that OK Ard?
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:56 AM
ard ard is offline
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Just trying to be helpful..... i noticed you were also seeking a listing on which diesel motors have DEF systems....
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  #16  
Old 11-20-2013, 08:22 AM
Jay997 Jay997 is offline
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Hi Guys,
New guy here. Looking to get a 35d and curious on what the solution is for this "Incorrect Fluid" message. Is it just flushing out the fluid (UREA?) and replacing with the correct fluid?
Thanks
Jay
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2013, 08:42 AM
ard ard is offline
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If you read this thread, and some of the others, you will see that the issue is NOT that the "wrong" fluid was used.

Up above the way the DDE makes a decision about 'proper fluid' is based on readings it gets on "drop in noxious exhaust gasses" versus "how much DEF was added"... the issues tend to be: bad sensors, bad DEF injector nozzle, bad SCR cat.

Also if youve been reading, BMW has had historical issues with the diesel exhaust system, and has had a few recalls as well as production changes. I think current production (late 2011-2013) has all the latest fixes. And theyve done a bunch of recalls. Also, as you are in my neck of the woods (CA) you have a prtty extensive emissions warranty due to CARB regulations.

And it seems to be a relatively rare event these days.....
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2013, 09:01 AM
Jay997 Jay997 is offline
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thanks for pointing that out Ard,
I didn't catch Penguin's conclusion that it was the sensors. Got caught up on the Urea scenario.
Jay
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:16 PM
Zuma man Zuma man is offline
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F15 emmissions updates

To anyone's knowledge, what, if any, changes to the new 2014 diesel engine have been incorporated in the new F15 engine that would eliminate the problem with emmissions occasioned by the E70 vehicles.
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2014, 11:54 AM
535dM-sport 535dM-sport is offline
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continuing diesel issues

I have a 535d with 4500 miles and while out on I-95 heading on a 6-hr drive the warning of incorrect fluid added with the 200 mile range b-4 not starting again appeared.. I got to a BMW dealership with 80 miles to go.... they say it's a software glitch and a re-programming the system... very lucky it was not Sunday....this stuff should not happen to this level car... so based on the last thread question, BMW has not solved the problem....
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  #21  
Old 03-07-2014, 05:42 PM
ingenieur ingenieur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535dM-sport View Post
I have a 535d with 4500 miles and while out on I-95 heading on a 6-hr drive the warning of incorrect fluid added with the 200 mile range b-4 not starting again appeared.. I got to a BMW dealership with 80 miles to go.... they say it's a software glitch and a re-programming the system... very lucky it was not Sunday....this stuff should not happen to this level car... so based on the last thread question, BMW has not solved the problem....
Well, I tend to disagree. BMW is now finally bringing some of their super diesel engines into the US - a 60% or better take rate in the EU BTW - although fuel prices and vehicle the vehicle tax structure are an influence

US 50 state emission compliance while still achieving BMW performance and fuel economy goals is a fine line. The newer N47T and N57T engines are the best in the industry and I plan to stay with them.
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2014, 05:51 PM
omarvilla omarvilla is offline
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i just refill the DEF tanks but just add 1 gal per tank, i drive a few miles and the warning of incorrect fluid show up, im in mexico so, i cant be at bmw dealer because here in mexico the diesel bmws dont exist, should i get more DEF to then tanks? or just wait to the warning goes away? im abojut 100 mils to non start
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  #23  
Old 04-06-2014, 09:20 PM
ard ard is offline
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I know you are hoping for some simple solution ( like 'press these two buttons' or 'it always does that")...

sounds like you are driving a US vehicle in Mexico (US plates to avoid $$$ perhaps??). and no BMW dealer in mexico can work on a diesel?? Once you hit 0 miles DO NOT TURN IT OFF or you'll be towing it into the US.

I posted your best path in the other thread. If you ask a wuerstion there, the other (knowledgeable) members in that thread my get an email notice and they may provide you with advice...BUT, this will not be solved on a computer or with addition of DEF.

IMO

GL
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  #24  
Old 04-07-2014, 03:49 AM
omarvilla omarvilla is offline
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Any ideas for me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I know you are hoping for some simple solution ( like 'press these two buttons' or 'it always does that")...

sounds like you are driving a US vehicle in Mexico (US plates to avoid $$$ perhaps??). and no BMW dealer in mexico can work on a diesel?? Once you hit 0 miles DO NOT TURN IT OFF or you'll be towing it into the US.

I posted your best path in the other thread. If you ask a wuerstion there, the other (knowledgeable) members in that thread my get an email notice and they may provide you with advice...BUT, this will not be solved on a computer or with addition of DEF.

IMO

GL
Ard, your right, no dealer works diesel here but im 1500 mils from border so.... I need something like restart the computer or something else, maybe change the Nox sensors but what about the computer?

What do you suggest? Im in deep trouble!!!
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  #25  
Old 04-07-2014, 06:50 AM
ninja_zx11 ninja_zx11 is online now
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I am wondering if its possible to reset temporary with rheingold or similar obd software?
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