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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #1  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:12 AM
Rototerrier Rototerrier is offline
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2014 M Sport - Please explain the differences in the 704 M Suspension vs Regular?

I have been looking at a 2014 535i with a production date of August 18th.

It doesn't have the M Sport Suspension but has everything else I want. I test drove some just like it and didn't mind the feel of the adjustable suspension they had. Comfort was pretty soft and comfortable and the sport modes were much firmer.

I currently drive an 08 with the sport suspension and it can sometimes be pretty rough, but it drives like a true sports car. Much more so than the 2014 I tested.

I must admit, I want to get the 2014 mostly for the advancements in technology and luxury and am not nearly as concerned about duplicating the bone jarring ride my 08 gives me all the time.

Being able to tune up or down the suspension with the push of a button seems like a pretty nice feature.

I have been reading a lot of talk about this 704 sport suspension issue and can't seem to determine what the big problem is? Does the 704 eliminate the ability to adjust the firmness setting on the fly? Would this be equal to having the same suspension I have now? Always sport and always tight?

From what I have read, the 704 appears to be the holy grail of suspensions in regards to the M Sport line....but if you lose the ability to switch between comfort and sport mode, I'm not sure it's for me.

Could it be that I'm in the minority in wanting the ability to have a comfortable ride with the ability to sport it up on rare occasions?

Hoping someone can help me out with this? Should I hold off and wait for this 704 package to come along so I can test drive it? Will the Non-704's be looked down on in some way in the future? I'm just having a hard time making up my mind. I really don't want a non-adjustable suspension that is always stiff. Should I just get the non-704 and be happy with it or is the 704 truly that remarkable that all non-704's should no longer be considered?

Last edited by Rototerrier; 09-12-2013 at 06:18 AM. Reason: title change
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:23 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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M Sport suspension = passive = stiffer (lower by 10mm) springs, shocks and sways

Dynamic Handling package suspension = active = active shocks and active sways = no drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rototerrier View Post
I have been looking at a 2014 535i with a production date of August 18th.

It doesn't have the M Sport Suspension. I test drove some just like it and didn't mind the feel of the adjustable suspension they had. Comfort was pretty soft and comfortable and the sport modes were much firmer.

I currently drive an 08 with the sport suspension and it can sometimes be pretty rough, but it drives like a true sports car. Much more so than the 2014 I tested.

I must admit, I want to get the 2014 mostly for the advancements in technology and luxury and am not nearly as concerned about duplicating the bone jarring ride my 08 gives me all the time.

Being able to tone up or down the suspension with the push of a button seems like a pretty nice feature.

I have been reading a lot of talk about this 704 sport suspension issue and can't seem to determine what the big problem is? Does the 704 eliminate the ability to adjust the setting ont he fly? Would this be equal to having the same suspension I have now? Always sport and always tight?

From what I have read, the 704 appears to be the holy grail of suspensions in regards to the M Sport line....but if you lose the ability to switch between comfort and sport mode, I'm not sure it's for me.

Could it be that I'm in the minority in wanting the ability to have a comfortable ride with the ability to sport it up on rare occasions?

Hoping someone can help me out with this? Should I hold off and wait for this 704 package to come along so I can test drive it? Will the Non-704's be looked down on in some way in the future? I'm just having a hard time making up my mind. I really don't want a non-adjustable suspension that is always stiff. Should I just get the non-704 and be happy with it?
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:47 AM
Rototerrier Rototerrier is offline
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Then am I in the minority in thinking DHP is a nice feature to have....or does everyone actually prefer stiff suspension 100% of the time?

Seems like a trade off either way. But hasn't DHP always been a desirable feature? Why the big explosion over the 704?

Is this a perception issue? People think they want the "M Sport Suspension" because it has M in the name. Have it just to have it, comfort aside? I've owned 2 M's and both were really nice cars, but I honestly didn't need that suspension that often. I rode around 95% of the time wishing my suspension wasn't so stiff just so I could truly push the car the other 5% of the time. I didn't use the power that often either. The v10 was insane. I don't buy M's anymore, but I do prefer the look and some of the features of the M cars...which is why I want the M Sport model. I like to get some of the fun of an M some of the time....but not sure I am sold on the harshness of it all of the time. Does this make sense?
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2013, 07:19 AM
mness mness is online now
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2014 M Sport - Please explain the differences in the 704 M Suspension vs Regula

The 704 isn't bone jarringly stiff like the old days. See if your dealer has a 2013 m-sport for you to compare to. There's still a LOT of them in inventory.

But yes 704 is "always on", not adjustable, that's what's meant by "passive."


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Last edited by mness; 09-12-2013 at 07:20 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2013, 07:56 AM
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demas demas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rototerrier View Post
Then am I in the minority in thinking DHP is a nice feature to have....or does everyone actually prefer stiff suspension 100% of the time?

Seems like a trade off either way. But hasn't DHP always been a desirable feature? Why the big explosion over the 704?

Is this a perception issue? People think they want the "M Sport Suspension" because it has M in the name. Have it just to have it, comfort aside? I've owned 2 M's and both were really nice cars, but I honestly didn't need that suspension that often. I rode around 95% of the time wishing my suspension wasn't so stiff just so I could truly push the car the other 5% of the time. I didn't use the power that often either. The v10 was insane. I don't buy M's anymore, but I do prefer the look and some of the features of the M cars...which is why I want the M Sport model. I like to get some of the fun of an M some of the time....but not sure I am sold on the harshness of it all of the time. Does this make sense?
I prefer full-time passive sport as opposed to the ability to toggle. But I come from 15 years with E36's and E39 M-sports so the adjustable dampers doesn't seem 'BMW' to me.

The beauty of the M-sport suspension is that from stock it has always been spot-on to the point where I would never feel it was too harsh - just felt like driving a BMW and would not want it any other way.

(1) I drive exclusively in sport mode
(2) Attracted to the M-Sport suspension because it has M in the name? Nah, those are usually the fools putting ///M on the trunk
(3) E39 540 M-Sport II suspension came with M5 shocks/struts (claimed to raise the drop post LCI) we never put ///M on the trunk but not sure these days with school kids buying up the last examples.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:08 AM
RKtect RKtect is offline
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Is 704 stiffer than DHP in sport mode?
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:46 AM
dunccfp dunccfp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKtect View Post
Is 704 stiffer than DHP in sport mode?
No, slightly less stiff
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:09 PM
RKtect RKtect is offline
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Originally Posted by dunccfp View Post
No, slightly less stiff
If this is true, wouldn't DHP in sport mode make it a more sporty suspension than 704?
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:13 PM
Rototerrier Rototerrier is offline
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I'm beginning to think this 704 suspension thing is going to be a major issue for everyone. Seems like BMW would make it an option with no charge rather than forcing one or the other on us.

I suspect there are going to be a lot of people just like me that might prefer the DHP over the 704 once it all hashes out.

I found it funny that one guys was calling the non 704 lepers.... Seems like giving up a technological advancement could be a step or 2 backwards.

I am going to take the recommended advice and go test drive a 13 with the m sport suspension and then test a 14 without and make a final decision. Going to go by my own personal preference and disregard all this 704 nonsense. I have a feeling I am going to choose the DHP.

Last edited by Rototerrier; 09-12-2013 at 01:15 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:24 PM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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Yep. It's all subjective. The only way to judge what's right for you is to get out and drive the cars.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:53 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKtect View Post
If this is true, wouldn't DHP in sport mode make it a more sporty suspension than 704?
DHP is by name and reality, Dynamic. There are a lot of people that assume that the various settings are just that, specific settings, when in fact they are closer to being programs.

Even in Comfort mode, if you push the car hard through a corner the suspension will stiffen to the same point as when the car is in Sport or Sport +. Take a look at this:



The 'feel' of DHP is very different than a fixed suspension. Just in the case of effective spring rate in lateral acceleration the car is using two (for descriptive purposes) variables: ARS on sway bar torque and Dampers.

It can be a preference, it can be an exercise in maximizing performance by the numbers, but it is ultimately up to the individual driver on what they like and/or want.

Edit: The other axis is effective spring rate: graphic creation fail!

Last edited by bjayfan; 09-12-2013 at 02:00 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2013, 02:30 PM
Steve J Steve J is offline
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Rototerrier are you sure the 2014 you test drove had the Dynamic Handling Package?
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  #13  
Old 09-12-2013, 03:52 PM
Rototerrier Rototerrier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve J View Post
Rototerrier are you sure the 2014 you test drove had the Dynamic Handling Package?
No. It just had the buttons to switch between comfort, sport, and sport+. It did tighten the stearing and suspension...but I don't think it did anything automatically.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:02 PM
RKtect RKtect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
DHP is by name and reality, Dynamic. There are a lot of people that assume that the various settings are just that, specific settings, when in fact they are closer to being programs.

Even in Comfort mode, if you push the car hard through a corner the suspension will stiffen to the same point as when the car is in Sport or Sport +. Take a look at this:



The 'feel' of DHP is very different than a fixed suspension. Just in the case of effective spring rate in lateral acceleration the car is using two (for descriptive purposes) variables: ARS on sway bar torque and Dampers.

It can be a preference, it can be an exercise in maximizing performance by the numbers, but it is ultimately up to the individual driver on what they like and/or want.

Edit: The other axis is effective spring rate: graphic creation fail!
You are correct, I had forgotten that DHP is dynamic and variable based on driving conditions. I am asking the following to help myself understand the two systems better so that I can make a more informed decision for myself. Specifically in the case of a hard corner manuever, which system would produce less body roll?
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:07 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKtect View Post
You are correct, I had forgotten that DHP is dynamic and variable based on driving conditions. I am asking the following to help myself understand the two systems better so that I can make a more informed decision for myself. Specifically in the case of a hard corner manuever, which system would produce less body roll?
If you have ARS, then it's a hands down win

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Old 09-12-2013, 05:16 PM
Steve J Steve J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rototerrier View Post
No. It just had the buttons to switch between comfort, sport, and sport+. It did tighten the stearing and suspension...but I don't think it did anything automatically.
Since the car you tested did not have DHP the control for comfort and sport, only adjusted steering and throttle response. It had no effect on the suspension. DHP comprises of Dynamic Damping Control and Active Roll Stabilisation. It is the DDC component that electronically dampens the suspension.

Your best bet is to test all three options: 1) standard passive suspension. 2) standard suspension coupled with active DHP. The overall system is now considered to be an active suspension. 3) passive M Sport suspension.

The 2013 F10 M Sport RWD come with M Sport suspension ( LCI September build onwards also come with that suspension ). Find one and test it. Remember it's your choice.
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  #17  
Old 09-12-2013, 05:51 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rototerrier View Post
No. It just had the buttons to switch between comfort, sport, and sport+. It did tighten the stearing and suspension...but I don't think it did anything automatically.
The buttons do not mean you have DHP or adjustable suspension. You must look for it on the sticker.
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:52 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rototerrier View Post
I'm beginning to think this 704 suspension thing is going to be a major issue for everyone. Seems like BMW would make it an option with no charge rather than forcing one or the other on us.
Just buy a Modern, Luxury or no line car, and you'll have the normal suspension.
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:55 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rototerrier View Post
I'm beginning to think this 704 suspension thing is going to be a major issue for everyone. Seems like BMW would make it an option with no charge rather than forcing one or the other on us.

I suspect there are going to be a lot of people just like me that might prefer the DHP over the 704 once it all hashes out.

I found it funny that one guys was calling the non 704 lepers.... Seems like giving up a technological advancement could be a step or 2 backwards.

I am going to take the recommended advice and go test drive a 13 with the m sport suspension and then test a 14 without and make a final decision. Going to go by my own personal preference and disregard all this 704 nonsense. I have a feeling I am going to choose the DHP.
The thing about DHP is that in order to have a soft suspension in Comfort, it runs soft springs. That means that when it's stiffened, it relies on the dampers (and to a certain extent the roll bars) to stiffen it up. Not necessarily the best way. Also, the de-coupled anti-roll bars can be a bit roly-poly around the straight ahead.

Definitely need to drive to see if you like it.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:27 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKtect View Post
You are correct, I had forgotten that DHP is dynamic and variable based on driving conditions. I am asking the following to help myself understand the two systems better so that I can make a more informed decision for myself. Specifically in the case of a hard corner manuever, which system would produce less body roll?
DHP with ARS would definitely have less body roll, just dampers would roll more than m-sport, and the normal suspension would roll the most.

However, quite a few people would drive m-sport and DHP w/ ARS and say the m-sport 'feels' stiffer, and at least through part of the curve they would be right. They would be more right to say that m-sport has a linear feel because that is what it is.

Truth is no matter what any of the various options in suspension are or are not, the most correct thing to do is go to a dealer and test drive whatever suspension setups you are considering, back to back, and then pick what you like.
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  #21  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:50 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
The thing about DHP is that in order to have a soft suspension in Comfort, it runs soft springs.
Before DHP was introduced on the 7's many (most?) considered the 7 to have grown too big, too heavy, and too soft. DHP allowed the 7 to retain it's comfort and give the option to gain better handling (stiffness).

With the 5's, just the opposite is said, that it's designed to add comfort (softness).

The truth is that DHP introduces something different, to extend the range of the suspension, and a rather wide range. For some, that's good, for others, not so much. Preference is just that, preference. It's not a right or wrong thing. It can be a numbers thing, but only if that is your preference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
That means that when it's stiffened, it relies on the dampers (and to a certain extent the roll bars) to stiffen it up. Not necessarily the best way. Also, the de-coupled anti-roll bars can be a bit roly-poly around the straight ahead.
De-coupling does not mean that the two halves are not individually controlled. It just means that when not under lateral acceleration (driving straight) that the required adjustments to geometry are independent to each side. If de-coupling meant no control at all, then changing from comfort to sport when driving straight would have almost no impact, and that's not the case.

I've heard several people say that the M5 doesn't have ARS so that means it's a comfort thing. Bit of a straw man argument, but the fact is that the M5 is not designed to have the range of suspension stiffness. Comfort in an M5 or M6 is stiffer than Sport on DHP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Definitely need to drive to see if you like it.
Amen!
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  #22  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:21 AM
Steve J Steve J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
The thing about DHP is that in order to have a soft suspension in Comfort, it runs soft springs. That means that when it's stiffened, it relies on the dampers (and to a certain extent the roll bars) to stiffen it up. Not necessarily the best way. Also, the de-coupled anti-roll bars can be a bit roly-poly around the straight ahead.

Definitely need to drive to see if you like it.
You're implying that the standard suspension compared to standard suspension + DHP have different springs. Is that actually the case?
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  #23  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:26 AM
Rototerrier Rototerrier is offline
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This is all very interesting info. What's crazy is that on my test drives....at 2 different dealers, they all stressed those comfort and sport settings and even though we "tested" them, I could feel the difference in the steering and shifting, but was never quite sure of the feel of the ride. I kept telling them that the performance feel of the car felt nothing like mine. I kept telling them we should go for a spin in mine so they could truly appreciate what I was saying. The 14 felt like a boat. Felt really disconnected and just didn't feel like a true sports car.

Anyway, it appears I finally know exactly what everyone is talking about. If the 14 M Sport only comes with passive suspension unless you spend the 3k on the DHP...then obviously having the 704 sport suspension is going to be the better deal.

I am not going to fork over the 3 grand for the DHP. I'm sure it's nice...but just not going to do it. So, for me, it all boils down to the following choices:

1) Take the current passive standard suspension of the model being delivered to the dealer next week.
2) Reject it and re-order to ensure I get the 704 m sport suspension

#2 seems like the best choice to me.

In case anyone is interested, the last 7 of the VIN are D475449

It has absolutely everything I wanted...but this suspension thing snagged me.

Sport automatic transmission with shift paddles
Comfort seats with lumbar support
Heated front seats
Ash Grain Wood Trim
Harman Kardon surround sound system
Driver Assistance Package•Rear-view camera
•Head-up Display
•Instrument cluster with extended contents
•Park Distance Control
Lighting Package•Full LED Lights
•Automatic high beams
M Sport•LED Fog Lights
•Anthracite headliner
•Shadowline exterior trim
•M steering wheel
•Aerodynamic kit
Premium Package•Power tailgate
•Comfort Access keyless entry
•Satellite radio with 1 year subscription
Carbon Fiber Mirror Caps
Black Kidney Grills

Last edited by Rototerrier; 09-13-2013 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:21 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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I'm not sure if bmw has improved the base passive suspension in the LCI, but my 2011 with the base suspension sucked big time. Road boat is the perfect description.

This is the first car that I've ever owned that needed a suspension mod.

I'd go with your option 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rototerrier View Post
This is all very interesting info. What's crazy is that on my test drives....at 2 different dealers, they all stressed those comfort and sport settings and even though we "tested" them, I could feel the difference in the steering and shifting, but was never quite sure of the feel of the ride. I kept telling them that the performance feel of the car felt nothing like mine. I kept telling them we should go for a spin in mine so they could truly appreciate what I was saying. The 14 felt like a boat. Felt really disconnected and just didn't feel like a true sports car.

Anyway, it appears I finally know exactly what everyone is talking about. If the 14 M Sport only comes with passive suspension unless you spend the 3k on the DHP...then obviously having the 704 sport suspension is going to be the better deal.

I am not going to fork over the 3 grand for the DHP. I'm sure it's nice...but just not going to do it. So, for me, it all boils down to the following choices:

1) Take the current passive standard suspension of the model being delivered to the dealer next week.
2) Reject it and re-order to ensure I get the 704 m sport suspension

#2 seems like the best choice to me.

In case anyone is interested, the last 7 of the VIN are D475449

It has absolutely everything I wanted...but this suspension thing snagged me.

Sport automatic transmission with shift paddles
Comfort seats with lumbar support
Heated front seats
Ash Grain Wood Trim
Harman Kardon surround sound system
Driver Assistance Package•Rear-view camera
•Head-up Display
•Instrument cluster with extended contents
•Park Distance Control
Lighting Package•Full LED Lights
•Automatic high beams
M Sport•LED Fog Lights
•Anthracite headliner
•Shadowline exterior trim
•M steering wheel
•Aerodynamic kit
Premium Package•Power tailgate
•Comfort Access keyless entry
•Satellite radio with 1 year subscription
Carbon Fiber Mirror Caps
Black Kidney Grills
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  #25  
Old 09-13-2013, 09:40 AM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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The non-M5 F10's are not sports cars, so i rhink you'll need to reset your expectations. The M Sport suspension is going to give you subtle improvements over the improved LCI standard suspension, but that's about it. Based on what ive read about your needs, you may want to consider taking the non 704 car arriving soon and doing suspension mods to go beyond what the 704 provides. Just a thought.
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